Want to move the liquid titration from cuts- 4mg Diazapam

After 8 years on Estazalom I crossed over to 20mg of Diazapam 6/19/2015. My current dosage is 4.25 mg.and I have been cutting by .25mg every 10 days for a couple of months. The symptom are becoming more severe and I would  like to convert to liquid method starting with the cut to 4mg. I think I understand the video but, am not sure how to develop a titration schedule from 4mg.  Also, using the water method, do I have to make a fresh dose every day?

 

I'm not a frequent user of the forum, but it's been a godsend. Any advice will be appreciated.

 

The liquid method is pretty straight forward.  You 'dissolve' your pill into a liquid, then drink some of the liquid.  You decrease the amount of liquid that you drink each day by a very small amount.

 

Designing a tapering program is really easy.  You could, for example, simply 'dissolve' the pill in 300 mls of liquid and reduce your dose by 0.5 mls per day (holding if symptoms get rough).  That would be a linear taper.  Or you can multiply yesterdays dose times 0.995 to obtain today's dose.  That gives a 1st order decay-type taper.

 

'Dissolving' the pill is the only issue.  Diazapam is not soluble in water.  It seems to suspend pretty well in whole milk, and it's soluble in solvents such as alcohol (ethanol) and propylene glycol as long as the alcohol (or PG) concentration is high enough.  Some people make a suspension by first dissolving the pill in a little alcohol (or PG) then diluting that with water.  It's not really in solution when you add the water, but it stays pretty well distributed for a while. 

 

Also - many people find that they need to up-dose slightly when they switch from solid to liquid.  No good reason for this, but it's been reported fairly often.  It's usually a small adjustment (e.g. 10%).

I've been convinced to use whole milk rather than water. 

 

 

'Dissolving' the pill is the only issue.  Diazapam is not soluble in water.  It seems to suspend pretty well in whole milk, and it's soluble in solvents such as alcohol (ethanol) and propylene glycol as long as the alcohol (or PG) concentration is high enough. Some people make a suspension by first dissolving the pill in a little alcohol (or PG) then diluting that with water.  It's not really in solution when you add the water, but it stays pretty well distributed for a while. 

 

 

Once its dissolved in a proper solvent, like alcohol or propylene glycol, it can then be further diluted with water, and it remains a true, evenly distributed solution.

Do I use 4mg pills for the liquid solution until I am off Diazapam altogether, or, can I reduce eventually to 3mg, then 2mg etc?  I a reduction of 1mil per day an appropriate reduction or should it be less?

Thank you!

 

 

'Dissolving' the pill is the only issue.  Diazapam is not soluble in water.  It seems to suspend pretty well in whole milk, and it's soluble in solvents such as alcohol (ethanol) and propylene glycol as long as the alcohol (or PG) concentration is high enough. Some people make a suspension by first dissolving the pill in a little alcohol (or PG) then diluting that with water.  It's not really in solution when you add the water, but it stays pretty well distributed for a while. 

 

 

Once its dissolved in a proper solvent, like alcohol or propylene glycol, it can then be further diluted with water, and it remains a true, evenly distributed solution.

 

I (and a research publication) do not agree that it is in 'solution'.  The solubility of diazepam in various concentrations of water:alcohol mixtures is documented, and it's simply not soluble in 1% alcohol (99% water).  I maintain that it is a suspension which will break down in time.  Doesn't mean that people can't use the suspension for their dosing.  I just want to use the correct technical term.

Once its dissolved in a proper solvent, like alcohol or propylene glycol, it can then be further diluted with water, and it remains a true, evenly distributed solution.

I (and a research publication) do not agree that it is in 'solution'.  The solubility of diazepam in various concentrations of water:alcohol mixtures is documented, and it's simply not soluble in 1% alcohol (99% water).  I maintain that it is a suspension which will break down in time.  Doesn't mean that people can't use the suspension for their dosing.  I just want to use the correct technical term.

 

Bad,

 

You're a chemist, right?  I'd like to get your opinion on this.  Always good to validate.  Check out the data here.  Post #54...

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=97737.50

 

Jouyban measured the solubility of benzos in water and found they are all about ~.03mg/ml give or take.  I think the benzo dissolves in the alcohol or PG and then will stay dissolved in the water as long as the solubility limit is not exceeded.  If we keep the liquids at .01mg/ml I'd think we are good to go.  Would you agree?

It's all so involved to me.  I'm at 13.5mg milk tira5ion V.  Now I started that last cu5 which was 2.50mg.  10%.    Now if I go daily what do I remove each day.  I did see on utube someone using a spread sheet,  This confuses me.  Can any one simplify the calculations.  I only have a 10mil syringe.

It's all so involved to me.  I'm at 13.5mg milk tira5ion V.  Now I started that last cu5 which was 2.50mg.  10%.    Now if I go daily what do I remove each day.  I did see on utube someone using a spread sheet,  This confuses me.  Can any one simplify the calculations.  I only have a 10mil syringe.

  If your cutting .25mg every 10 days, a daily taper would be .25mg/10 days, or .025mg/day.

 

Most pharmacies will give you 1ml syringes for free.

fwiw - I think SG and I have found the source of our difference of opinion regarding solubility.  We're each basing our numbers on research publications that do not agree with one another (despite being published by the same group).  The earlier paper lists higher solubilities for valium and klonopin than does the more recent paper.  I have no idea why the difference, but it's fairly substantial.

 

I think that dissolving into ethanol (or PG) followed by dilution with water is still a viable method.  I just think that it should be consumed relatively quickly after preparation.  I don't know how long it will store before the little particles start to coalesce and precipitate out of solution.  Might take hours; might take a week or more.

Thank you builder.  That's straight forward.  Will do that.  It's easy to see you help so many people on here. 

Thanks to everyone who posted. I also read discussions over the past year and found some great advice. The process which at first seemed daunting is now pretty clear.  I have all my "gear" and will start tonight!