Klonopin liquid taper plan....please anyone review and give input

New here, so I've been reading up on tapering plans. Originally was thinking about the milk titration, looking at other plans and with input from some people, SG, Builder and Crash I'm thinking of the cutting with vodka and water since possibly I wouldn't have to mix everyday.

I'm slightly limited because Dr. would only give me 1mg K pills because he wants me on 3x1mg per day. Right now taking. 375 once a night. Have alot of anxiety and insomnia,  have tried to come off twice earlier without success.

 

Since I'm taking 1 nightly dose of .375 (insomnia is a problem), should I divide up LT doses to 2-3 a day or should I stick with 1 dose. Dividing might help interdose withdrawal but might impact sleep more?

 

Was thinking of slight updose to start to .4 to start (and with dose limitations due to having only 1mg pills)

Had thought of 4mg K in 16ml of vodka to dissolve then diluting up to 1000ml by adding 984ml of water for a 10 day dose. This would have been. 004mg K each ml.

 

        Would have dosed

          1st day drink 100ml  (.4mg)

          2nd day drink 99.5ml (.398)

          3rd day drink 99.0ml (.396)

 

SG suggested cutting water which sounded good. And that maybe starting dose is too high...He's probably right to start.

 

 

So redo might be adding 4mg K to 400ml of solution (16mg vodka +384 of water) for a .01mg K per ml solution? Is this right?  (Please check my math, severe benzo brain)

 

  Dose would then be

                1st day drink 40ml (.4mg)

                2nd day drink 39.9 ml (.399mg)

                3rd day drink 39.8 ml (.398mg)

 

Smaller % drop and less water.

I know it's up to the individual to decide, the main thing is I'd really like for as many as would look at this, especially the math, and let me know what you see that may be wrong.

My dad used to always say "measure twice cut once", before he passed. Unfortunately my brain with the current anxiety, I'm likely to make mistakes.

 

Any constructive criticism is appreciated, espiecially if you've done anything similar.

 

Thanks for the input so far, have ordered some supplies and hope to do something that will help me find the old me one day.

 

 

Any input is appreciated,  thanks.

Since I'm taking 1 nightly dose of .375 (insomnia is a problem), should I divide up LT doses to 2-3 a day or should I stick with 1 dose. Dividing might help interdose withdrawal but might impact sleep more?

 

Are you currently experiencing interdose WD with a single dose?  If you are, then spacing out your dose might help.  But if once a day is working OK, I wouldn't change it.

 

Dose would then be

                1st day drink 40ml (.4mg)

                2nd day drink 39.9 ml (.399mg)

                3rd day drink 39.8 ml (.398mg)

 

That's 2.5% per 10 days, or 7.5% per month.  Is that the taper rate you want?

Thanks Builder, appreciate your help. Have anxiety and panic. Insomnia is one of my main problems though, which the K does help slightly by taking at night. Not sure if breaking dose up would significantly hurt the little sleep I get. Helps one way, hurts another.

If I put .5 K in 50

ml liquid that is still .01mgK per ml correct?

Thanks

 

 

If I put .5 K in 50

ml liquid that is still .01mgK per ml correct?

Thanks

 

Correct.

Thanks SG.....

 

If I had the 50ml in milk, would pulling out .1ml per day be a safe place to start?

 

              1st day  40ml (.4mg k per ml)

              2nd day 39.9ml (.399mg k per ml)

              3rd dat 39.8ml (.398mg k per ml)

 

Would that be doable with a 10 ml and 1ml syringe  (accurate enough), or would I need a pipette?

Is that % drop ok too start?  Would it be ~7.5%-8% a month?

 

Thanks

Thanks SG.....

 

If I had the 50ml in milk, would pulling out .1ml per day be a safe place to start?

 

              1st day  40ml (.4mg k per ml)

              2nd day 39.9ml (.399mg k per ml)

              3rd dat 39.8ml (.398mg k per ml)

 

Would that be doable with a 10 ml and 1ml syringe  (accurate enough), or would I need a pipette?

Is that % drop ok too start?  Would it be ~7.5%-8% a month?

 

Thanks

 

.01mg/ml K.  So each ml is .01mg.  Your dose is .4mg and cutting .1ml a day is .001mg, which is .030mg a month.  That's 7.5%.  Easily doable with 1ml and 10ml syringes.  I think it is a great place to begin and get used to the whole process.

SG

Thanks so much for your response. Had read somewhere that if you had to do it over again, you had thought for awhile that you would have used milk, but then you changed your mind after more info and would have preferred PG and a micropipette  (hope I'm not mistaken).....do you still feel milk is a viable option?

Have you known some people to have success using milk?

If you don't mind the question, what did you use on your taper? How did your's go for you?

 

Thanks so much again for sharing your thoughts.

SG

Thanks so much for your response. Had read somewhere that if you had to do it over again, you had thought for awhile that you would have used milk, but then you changed your mind after more info and would have preferred PG and a micropipette  (hope I'm not mistaken).....do you still feel milk is a viable option?

Have you known some people to have success using milk?

 

Thanks so much again for sharing your thoughts.

 

Whole milk is a good way to go.  Nothing wrong with that.  It was my first choice, but I've learned more.  PG/water is more portable and avoids the refrigeration, bacteria, and spoiling issues that come with milk.

Would you hold for a period to start, to get accustomed to the liquid? If so how long? Does switching to liquid generally cause a big adjustment?

Would slight updose to .4mg from the .375 be a good idea, or is it giving back ground?

Thanks again.....

 

Would you hold for a period to start, to get accustomed to the liquid? If so how long? Does switching to liquid generally cause a big adjustment?

Would slight updose to .4mg from the .375 be a good idea, or is it giving back ground?

Thanks again.....

i just started doing 1.5mg liquid and had trouble my 1st day. I was doing the exact same amount as solid. So, I am doing .75 solid in the am and .25 liquid in the am.  Then doing .75 solid about 4pm and .25 liquid.  i feel sluggish but ok.  I plan on doing 1mg liquid and 1mg solid a day before tapering. Holding like this for a week or so.

Would you hold for a period to start, to get accustomed to the liquid? If so how long? Does switching to liquid generally cause a big adjustment?

Would slight updose to .4mg from the .375 be a good idea, or is it giving back ground?

Thanks again.....

 

It is common to have symptoms from the switch.  Give it as much time as needed.

Would you hold for a period to start, to get accustomed to the liquid? If so how long? Does switching to liquid generally cause a big adjustment?

Would slight updose to .4mg from the .375 be a good idea, or is it giving back ground?

Thanks again.....

i just started doing 1.5mg liquid and had trouble my 1st day. I was doing the exact same amount as solid. So, I am doing .75 solid in the am and .25 liquid in the am.  Then doing .75 solid about 4pm and .25 liquid.  i feel sluggish but ok.  I plan on doing 1mg liquid and 1mg solid a day before tapering. Holding like this for a week or so.

Good luck to you. Hope it starts working...what type of trouble did you experience? Are you using milk or something else?

Would you hold for a period to start, to get accustomed to the liquid? If so how long? Does switching to liquid generally cause a big adjustment?

Would slight updose to .4mg from the .375 be a good idea, or is it giving back ground?

Thanks again.....

i just started doing 1.5mg liquid and had trouble my 1st day. I was doing the exact same amount as solid. So, I am doing .75 solid in the am and .25 liquid in the am.  Then doing .75 solid about 4pm and .25 liquid.  i feel sluggish but ok.  I plan on doing 1mg liquid and 1mg solid a day before tapering. Holding like this for a week or so.

Good luck to you. Hope it starts working...what type of trouble did you experience? Are you using milk or something else?

Thank you for the well wishes. I had insomnia, moderate anxiety and minor sweats.  I have been thru worse, but this was enough to keep me up all night. Maybe drifted off for less than an hour. I am thinking when and if  I should liquify more. By the way, I used alcohol to dissolve.  I am still using alcohol, just updosed .5 mg and am doing OK, just sluggish. 

Tj, did you have insomnia and anxiety problems prior to your liquid attempt or do you feel that was the reason? Have both myself, the K has helped me get a little sleep as my dose has been at night....getting about 3-4 hours a night now, only about an hour before going back on it.

Had 14 day period where I got less than 12 hours sleep total.  Which certainly doesn't help anxiety. Fixing to start titration myself. Scared but need to try.

Hoping we have better luck going forward.

Tj, did you have insomnia and anxiety problems prior to your liquid attempt or do you feel that was the reason? Have both myself, the K has helped me get a little sleep as my dose has been at night....getting about 3-4 hours a night now, only about an hour before going back on it.

Had 14 day period where I got less than 12 hours sleep total.  Which certainly doesn't help anxiety. Fixing to start titration myself. Scared but need to try.

Hoping we have better luck going forward.

Well, its a long story.  I was on .5mg for a long time 1x a day. Then last spring I wasn't sleeping at all.  Very similar to what you were getting. Ran every test possible and my cortisol was high. I was going thru tolerance withdrawal. I didn't realize it for so long. Thank God for this site!! So I updosed to 1.5mg all dry.  I never felt great but have been doing ok.  Only when I switched from 1.5mg solid to all 1.5mg all liquid earlier this week did I have trouble. Now at 1.5mg solid and .5mg liquid I am sleeping ok.  I still feel groggy and I am going to start tapering in a week or so. I up dosed .5 mg liquid which may be more than needed but just wanted to start at an even number of 2 mg.  KIT.  Good luck!! 

When I switched over to water titration it took me a good month to get stable...was weird-had no idea I woldl get any symptoms from switching or that I should have switched and held for awhile...instead I started tapering right away and sent myself into a tailspin. Also....I tried using vodka at one point and it really put me in a bad space for some reason-took about a week to recover from that. Weird cause it was such a small amount of vodka. Crazy bodies we have....grrr...

Tj, did you have insomnia and anxiety problems prior to your liquid attempt or do you feel that was the reason? Have both myself, the K has helped me get a little sleep as my dose has been at night....getting about 3-4 hours a night now, only about an hour before going back on it.

Had 14 day period where I got less than 12 hours sleep total.  Which certainly doesn't help anxiety. Fixing to start titration myself. Scared but need to try.

Hoping we have better luck going forward.

Well, its a long story.  I was on .5mg for a long time 1x a day. Then last spring I wasn't sleeping at all.  Very similar to what you were getting. Ran every test possible and my cortisol was high. I was going thru tolerance withdrawal. I didn't realize it for so long. Thank God for this site!! So I updosed to 1.5mg all dry.  I never felt great but have been doing ok.  Only when I switched from 1.5mg solid to all 1.5mg all liquid earlier this week did I have trouble. Now at 1.5mg solid and .5mg liquid I am sleeping ok.  I still feel groggy and I am going to start tapering in a week or so. I up dosed .5 mg liquid which may be more than needed but just wanted to start at an even number of 2 mg.  KIT.  Good luck!!

My GP checked my cortisol and it is high also, can't get in to endocrinologist till August though.

Did they do anything for your cortisol?

Thanks

Tj, did you have insomnia and anxiety problems prior to your liquid attempt or do you feel that was the reason? Have both myself, the K has helped me get a little sleep as my dose has been at night....getting about 3-4 hours a night now, only about an hour before going back on it.

Had 14 day period where I got less than 12 hours sleep total.  Which certainly doesn't help anxiety. Fixing to start titration myself. Scared but need to try.

Hoping we have better luck going forward.

Well, its a long story.  I was on .5mg for a long time 1x a day. Then last spring I wasn't sleeping at all.  Very similar to what you were getting. Ran every test possible and my cortisol was high. I was going thru tolerance withdrawal. I didn't realize it for so long. Thank God for this site!! So I updosed to 1.5mg all dry.  I never felt great but have been doing ok.  Only when I switched from 1.5mg solid to all 1.5mg all liquid earlier this week did I have trouble. Now at 1.5mg solid and .5mg liquid I am sleeping ok.  I still feel groggy and I am going to start tapering in a week or so. I up dosed .5 mg liquid which may be more than needed but just wanted to start at an even number of 2 mg.  KIT.  Good luck!!

My GP checked my cortisol and it is high also, can't get in to endocrinologist till August though.

Did they do anything for your cortisol?

Thanks

I used seriphos and ordered my own blood and urine tests through life extension. I read a great book that explained all this that I will get the name for you.  I think it was called the mood cure by Dr. Julia Ross.  Ultimately though it was the tolerance withdrawal that was the main culprit!!

Would you hold for a period to start, to get accustomed to the liquid? If so how long? Does switching to liquid generally cause a big adjustment?

Would slight updose to .4mg from the .375 be a good idea, or is it giving back ground?

Thanks again.....

 

It is common to have symptoms from the switch.  Give it as much time as needed.

SG,

Still wondering if you think I should do a slight updose to begin my titration to alleviate as many withdrawal symptoms as possible. Don't want to give back ground, and have held at my current dose although uncomfortable for almost a month now. Was on .5 prior to cutting down.

I have quite a bit of anxiety everyday on my single. 375k dose I take at night, but I've been on this dose for about a month and have resisted goingback up. Do you think that is considered "stable" enough to begin my titration, as I've heard you should be stable to start.

I've heard it is much easier to start if you're symptom free, but I haven't been symptom free for months.

Thanks for all your help

 

It is common to have symptoms from the switch.  Give it as much time as needed.

SG,

Still wondering if you think I should do a slight updose to begin my titration to alleviate as many withdrawal symptoms as possible. Don't want to give back ground, and have held at my current dose although uncomfortable for almost a month now. Was on .5 prior to cutting down.

I have quite a bit of anxiety everyday on my single. 375k dose I take at night, but I've been on this dose for about a month and have resisted goingback up. Do you think that is considered "stable" enough to begin my titration, as I've heard you should be stable to start.

I've heard it is much easier to start if you're symptom free, but I haven't been symptom free for months.

Thanks for all your help

 

I don't like telling people to go up since it may not help.  But it could, so it might be worth trying.

Thanks SG for response, guess there's no way to really know for sure until it happens. If I stayed where I'm at, and it doesn't work, could I then go up on liquid dose after starting? (Say from .375 to .4?).... Or are you saying that "it may not help", meaning it's possible I would still suffer even if I went up.

Is it better to start at .375 and try it, even if you have to go up (if that's possible), or is it better to start maybe at ~.4, or.5 and be careful?

Appreciate your opinion....

Thanks SG for response, guess there's no way to really know for sure until it happens. If I stayed where I'm at, and it doesn't work, could I then go up on liquid dose after starting? (Say from .375 to .4?).... Or are you saying that "it may not help", meaning it's possible I would still suffer even if I went up.

Is it better to start at .375 and try it, even if you have to go up (if that's possible), or is it better to start maybe at ~.4, or.5 and be careful?

Appreciate your opinion....

 

It won't make things worse and could make them better.  That's all I can tell you.  If you don't mind the extra tapering time or if symptoms are bad, it may be worth it.

IMO, if your sxs don't resolve after a couple of weeks holding go back to whatever dose you last felt comfortable at.  Yes, updosing will add time to your taper, but so does holding while waiting to get better.