My Liquid Daily Micro Taper (updated)

Note: This is an updated version. I've learned a lot since stepping off!

 

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I get a lot of PMs asking about my daily taper, so i figured i would post it here so that i can easily link to it and keep the conversation on the boards. Also, i'd love feedback from the more experienced BBs on where i can improve.

 

 

Materials:

1) 1 bottle (I used a 60 ml bottle for dosage and TSA reasons, but you can use whatever you want)

 

http://www.amazon.com/Pack--Essential-Fragrances-Chemicals-Re-Usable/dp/B01C7VKFUO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1459904942&sr=8-2&keywords=brown+60+ml+bottle

 

2) 100 1 ml syringes (easier to use a new one than wash them). I like these because they have a slip-tip for more accurate measuring.

 

http://www.amazon.com/slip-tip-disposable-syringe-without-needle/dp/B007ZDHYTK?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

   

3) bottle of glycerin - this is only for taste. It is not required.

 

4) Vodka or propylene glycol - note that you will only be taking a TINY amount of alcohol per day (less than in fruit juice). But if that bothers you, then use propylene glycol

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005PZBRUC/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_a_it?qid=1459968276&sr=8-1&keywords=propylene+glycol&pi=SY200_QL40

 

5) water

 

6) meds

 

 

Preparation:

This is based on my 60 ml bottle. You can adjust as needed.

 

Pour enough vodka (or PG) into the brown bottle to dissolve your meds. A commonly cited amount is 1 ml per 1 mg of meds.

Calculate how much clonazepam (or whatever you're taking) will last 20 days

Pour it into the brown bottle to mix with the vodka. You now have a dissolved solution.

Pour in some glycerin if you want it to taste better. Not required.

Pour in enough water to fill the bottle to 60 ml.

Shake it all up

You now have a 60 ml solution that will last 20 days

 

NOTE: If you're taking a LOT of pills, you'll want to use a bigger bottle. Or split your doses between dry pills and liquid. For example, if your daily dose is 4 mg, then take 3.5 mg by pill and .5 mg by liquid. Just do the microtaper on the liquid. When you get down to 0 liquid, then go to 3 dry pill and .5 liquid. Etc.

 

 

Dosing:

I can only tell you what i did. You'll have to adjust for your own dosage and meds.

 

I dosed 3 times per day at 9:00 AM, 5:00 PM, and 1:00 AM.

At the start of my taper, i took 1 ml each time for 3 times per day. This comes out to 60 ml over 20 days time.

I shook the bottle for about 30 seconds before each dose just to make sure it was evenly distributed. Not really necessary if you have dissolved it in vodka or PG. But i'm OCD.

I used 1 ml syringe to dose. I just squirted the liquid into my mouth.

I was on a 100-day plan to finish off my last taper of .125 mg, so the first day, i dosed with 1 ml t.i.d. The second day, it was .99 ml. Third day, .98 ml. And so on.

 

If you're on a higher dose, then make a 200-day plan. Or 300-day. Whatever you need. Just adjust the syringe amounts accordingly. Or you could go down 1% every other day for a 200-day plan. Or down 1% every third day for a 300-day plan. The beauty of it is that you go down at your own rate, and strictly control how much you reduce without having to calculate it every day, etc.

 

Note here that the only "calculation" you have to make each day is to reduce the syringe by one little hash mark. It's really easy.

 

 

This method is portable. It does not require refrigeration. It only requires that you calculate your meds once (each new batch uses the same initial amount of meds).

 

I carried it in a brown plastic case, along with a real prescription compound in case i got pulled over or went through TSA.

 

 

 

I really appreciate all the help i've gotten on this board, so if this helps anyone else, then that would be great. 

Very good, Crash!  (saves me the trouble of putting together a similar set of instructions.) 

Big thanks to you, Builder. You and SG have taught me so much! I think it was a post of yours that initially got me thinking about daily MT and freedom from benzos. 

Crash, As I mentioned before, thank you again for all of your helpful tips. SG has answered many of my threads and he is very helpful as well. BB is lucky to have both of you. I feel we are all a team on this site and everyone is very resourceful and it makes such a rough time in our lives much easier knowing there is so much support on this site. Thanks again 

If it wasn't for you crash I wouldn't be doing as well as I am .I followed your guidelines and for the most part I am symptom free .I have a few symptoms here and there but nothing like the c/h method . Builder has helped me as well . Builder and sg and crash you guys are good people .You help others on a daily and that can be a rarity in this world .Its a nice thing to see . The tapering process for bb is a real catch 22 .Benzo use is hell on the brain so a lot of people are having a rough time just remembering what they went into the kitchen for (me at one point ) let alone trying to figure out how to taper a medication using a method they have no clue about .I cant even imagine what a mess it would be on here without you guys helping with the liquid MT . Thanking you from the bottom of my heart you guys and to all of the other people out there helping

If it wasn't for you crash I wouldn't be doing as well as I am .I followed your guidelines and for the most part I am symptom free .I have a few symptoms here and there but nothing like the c/h method . Builder has helped me as well . Builder and sg and crash you guys are good people .You help others on a daily and that can be a rarity in this world .Its a nice thing to see . The tapering process for bb is a real catch 22 .Benzo use is hell on the brain so a lot of people are having a rough time just remembering what they went into the kitchen for (me at one point ) let alone trying to figure out how to taper a medication using a method they have no clue about .I cant even imagine what a mess it would be on here without you guys helping with the liquid MT . Thanking you from the bottom of my heart you guys and to all of the other people out there helping

 

That's awesome! I'm so happy for you!! 

I do want to mention to anyone else using the 1.0 ml syringes . Be sure to pull the plunger all the way PAST the 1.0 marker until it is evened up then start going down .I neglected to do that and started below the 1.0 line so now once I get to .2 -.3 Im going to have very little if any liquid and will have to readjust .It didnt affect my dosing because I use the syringes to measure my liquid so its the same every time . If you look at the syringe you will see what I mean. Maybe this will help someone else .But then again most people know how to use a syringe 

In Your "How I do it" link, what if you put in a sentence stating that you use the syringe to set the dose (eg 100 ml, 99 ml, 98 ml...) and you squirt the dose into your mouth?

 

That is, if I am understanding your system right.

 

This seems to be an omission that caused confusion for at least two of us BBs.

 

You might also want to state where one buys propylene glycol. Not that people can't search it, but your best knowledge will help people along. Some of us are very proud of our long-term abstentions from alcohol, and the idea of intentionally drinking any alcohol feels like throwing away our hard-won sobriety. The effect is to put us off your program, feeling it's not for us, even though it has merit and may be a huge help.

 

Just suggestions, for your consideration. Might help make a great post that much better. 

Great suggestions! Changes made. 

Thanks Crash, so I'm on .375K, maybe will go up some to .5.

How do you figure what size bottle, how much K would last 20 days? Then do you refigure next bottle, using a spreadsheet?  Calculations?

Mainly I guess I'm looking for a breakdown on how each new batch would work and where you stand after each? Does that make sense?

Thanks Crash, so I'm on .375K, maybe will go up some to .5.

How do you figure what size bottle, how much K would last 20 days? Then do you refigure next bottle, using a spreadsheet?  Calculations?

Mainly I guess I'm looking for a breakdown on how each new batch would work and where you stand after each? Does that make sense?

 

If you are taking .375 mg per day, then your 20-day supply will be 7.5 mg. Mix that with 8 ml of vodka or PG. If you are taking .5 mg per day, then it will be 10 mg for 20 days.

 

I never recalculated. New batch is the same as the old one. The only change is how much to take out in the syringe each day. 

Ok.....but with much higher dose, would I dilute in more water (bigger bottle)?

I would have to go to probably 250-300days, so I would have to divide the syringe dose accordingly???

Instead of starting with 1ml,.99,.98 like you.....it would have to be like 1ml,.9975,.9950?? Correct? If so how??

Know I'm missing something....anxiety sorry?

Thanks for getting back with me, how would I stretch it out to work for the longer time frame because of the greater amount?

I'm starting to understand how it worked for you over the 100 days. But don't see how to do it longer because of limitations with nothing lower than 1ml syringes.

Would I need to readjust after each 100 days?

Thanks Crash!

  But don't see how to do it longer because of limitations with nothing lower than 1ml syringes.

Would I need to readjust after each 100 days?

Thanks Crash!

 

 

A 1ml syringe usually has 100 graduations, so it can measure and dispense in decrements of .01ml.,

 

So if you have a solution diluted to .1mg/ml, that's .001mg, and diluted to .01mg/ml, that's .0001mg.

If you want a 300-day plan, then cut 1% every third day instead of everyday. Or dilute it more like builder is saying.

Guess I'm having trouble with the math. How did 60ml (the size of your bottle) figure into your initial dilution? Wouldn't you need to use increments of 1, 10, 100 to dilute properly?

Say I'm trying to do .375 or .5 on a 300 day plan,  I would add 10mg K with 8ml of pg or vodka,? then add water to go to 60?? or higher amount to dilute?

How would you do a 1% cut with this concentrated solution. Builder wrote about diluting more to get smaller amount daily, how much more?  How do I get the #'s right? ..guess with nothing but anxiety in my mind I'm struggling with this.

Know I'm one of the newbies, but I really need the help. Like the fact your's is not made daily and non refrigerated. Don't want to make a mistake with the numbers starting off then I'm in even more trouble. Dr. would only give me 1mg tabs, not the .5, so it's more difficult to do any dry cuts or daily titration.

Sorry I'm lost

 

 

 

I took 1 ml t.i.d. so that comes to 3 ml per day. 20 days = 60 ml.

 

If you are doing .375 per day on a 300-day plan and taking 3 doses per day, then this is how i would do it (someone else can double-check my math before you make it).

 

Put 7.5 mg of meds in the bottle.

Put 10 ml of solvent in the bottle.

Mix well.

Pour in water until it reaches 60 ml.

 

Now take 1 ml the first day, .967 the second day, .933 the third day, etc. Or take 1 ml the first day, .99 the 4th day, .98 the 7th day, etc. Either way gets you to the finish line in 300 days.

 

 

If you take 2 doses per day, then just adjust. If you want a 100 ml bottle, then adjust for that. 

Guess I'm having trouble with the math. How did 60ml (the size of your bottle) figure into your initial dilution? Wouldn't you need to use increments of 1, 10, 100 to dilute properly?

Say I'm trying to do .375 or .5 on a 300 day plan,  I would add 10mg K with 8ml of pg or vodka,? then add water to go to 60?? or higher amount to dilute?

 

  Do not think in terms of an "xxx day plan."  Think in terms of a tolerable taper rate.  5-7% per 14 days is often suggested as a starting rate.  You can adjust up or down depending on how you feel..It takes as long as it takes.

 

You can use any dilution ratio you choose.  Most folks prefer ratios of 1:10 or 1:100 just because the math is easier (just move the decimal).  But with just a little basic arithmetic or the calculator on your phone, you can convert mg to ml with any ratio

 

 

How would you do a 1% cut with this concentrated solution. Builder wrote about diluting more to get smaller amount daily, how much more?  How do I get the #'s right? ..guess with nothing but anxiety in my mind I'm struggling with this.

A 1mg=1ml solution isn't really very helpful when your trying to make measurements to .01mg or even .001mg precision.

 

The important metric is how many mg's if benzo is in each ml of liquid.  If you dissolve 1mg in 100ml, then its 1/100, or .01mg.  If you dissolve 1mg in 60ml, then its 1/60, or .0167mg. Just divide the amount of med, in mgs, by the amount of liquid, in mls.

 

Know I'm one of the newbies, but I really need the help. Like the fact your's is not made daily and non refrigerated. Don't want to make a mistake with the numbers starting off then I'm in even more trouble. Dr. would only give me 1mg tabs, not the .5, so it's more difficult to do any dry cuts or daily titration.

 

No, you do not have to make new solution daily, and yes, you can store your solution at room temp.  You mix enough to last 10-14 days, and just draw out what you need each day...much the same as you would when shaking pills out of bottle to get your correct dose.

 

Sorry I'm lost

Thanks for more info. Builder and Crash.  I don't want to make a mistake, If I dissolve 1mgK pills in 100ml liquid this makes a .01mg solution.  Correct? Builder,

In order to reduce in the 5%-7% range every 2 weeks, what dose could I take in mls to accomplish this?

Is there a spreadsheet or table for this purpose?

Crash you suggested putting 7.5mg or 10mg (for 3.75 or .5 pills) and dissolve them in the 60 or 100 ml solution. Wouldn't

Drawing out 1ml of this solution be much too strong of an initial dose?

Was trying to read the initial taper responses and questions from others but can't find it anywhere. Apparently it was moved but new to site so not sure how to access it.

. Sorry if I'm sounding crazy but want to be sure that I don't screw up anything and dig a deeper hole.

 

 

Thanks for more info. Builder and Crash.  I don't want to make a mistake, If I dissolve 1mgK pills in 100ml liquid this makes a .01mg solution.  Correct? Builder,

In order to reduce in the 5%-7% range every 2 weeks, what dose could I take in mls to accomplish this?

Is there a spreadsheet or table for this purpose?

Crash you suggested putting 7.5mg or 10mg (for 3.75 or .5 pills) and dissolve them in the 60 or 100 ml solution. Wouldn't

Drawing out 1ml of this solution be much too strong of an initial dose?

Was trying to read the initial taper responses and questions from others but can't find it anywhere. Apparently it was moved but new to site so not sure how to access it.

. Sorry if I'm sounding crazy but want to be sure that I don't screw up anything and dig a deeper hole.

 

No, 1 ml would be .125 mg. If you take it 3x per day, it's .375 mg per day. Exactly what you're doing now.

 

Btw, my method is not the exactly same as builder's, so don't get them confused. Either one is fine, but don't do them both concurrently.

 

The reason why i chose the way i do it is bc once you have the mix made in the bottle, then you don't have to think anymore in terms of mg or ml. You just think in terms of % reduced each day. 

You make this sound very simple but people crossing to liquid have a horrendous time....my doses are even and when i even tried to get those even by dry cutting it near killed me so i didnt bother...

 

 

There is no mention how much alcohol or PG is needed per whatever med a person is taking..

 

 

 

You make this sound very simple but people crossing to liquid have a horrendous time....

Please clarify. Harder time with the math or withdrawal?

 

my doses are even and when i even tried to get those even by dry cutting it near killed me so i didnt bother...

Sorry, i'm not sure what you mean...? Were you dry-cutting? Perhaps it's bc the pills don't have evenly distributed meds.

 

 

There is no mention how much alcohol or PG is needed per whatever med a person is taking..

 

1 ml for every 1 mg of meds is the usual posted amount. 

You make this sound very simple but people crossing to liquid have a horrendous time....my doses are even and when i even tried to get those even by dry cutting it near killed me so i didnt bother...

 

 

There is no mention how much alcohol or PG is needed per whatever med a person is taking..

    1ml of vodka or PG for each mg of med. will work.  You can up that to 2ml per mg  for added assurance.

Thanks for more info. Builder and Crash.  I don't want to make a mistake, If I dissolve 1mgK pills in 100ml liquid this makes a .01mg solution.  Correct? Builder,

In order to reduce in the 5%-7% range every 2 weeks, what dose could I take in mls to accomplish this?

 

 

If your at .5mg, then 5% is .5mgx.05=.025mg

 

.025/14 days is .0018...round up to .002

 

Since each ml contains .01mg, then .002mg=.2ml.

Thanks ...i'm thinking of trying to get across to liquid but terrrified as it was hell last time before i was taken off it...

 

 

What i take is on my sig line...why does the rx liquid here in the uk have 5mls pg to 1mg ativan

 

 

thanks