The Long Hold Support Group

I wonder if I'm being the biggest idiot by not going back up to 1.25 where I felt a handful of good functional days before I started my nano taper in September. I only got down to 1.20 mg of klonopin September to February when I majorly crashed. I wonder if I would have the same experience as Anne. I updosed last year three times to get stable on Ativan and felt better with each updose up to 1.75 mg but then started having fog and fatigue and was mistakenly crossed to 1 mg of K in two weeks. Tapered from there three months and then told by doc to updose to 1.25 and hold for six months before tapering. I only held for 27 days because the good days started to wane so I thought that meant I should cut.

 

Now I'm agonizing over updosing. It's worked every other time but so many say it's a crap shoot. Dang I don't want to freak my brain out any more with what I've been through the last seven years. Thanks for listening.

All you can do is try and see what happens if it is still too unbearable. Holding should help a lot so not telling you what to do. I don't know why up dosing is so hit and miss. I'm sure you'll figure it out and do what works for you.  --V

Gotta love propaganda!  --V

 

"I am almost 4 years out from my last benzo. In the beginning I tapered too fast and hit the wall. I ended up having to hold for months before I stabilized. I was feeling so crummy I didn't feel like I would ever stabilize, but things eventually settled down.

 

I know how hopeless you feel right now. The best thing you can do is hold tight, don't mess with your dose and wait until things settle down."

 

"I would say holding is your best bet. You have destabilised you CNS and there is no silver bullet that will take that away at once. After we destabilise our system it usually takes some times for things to very GRADUALLY start to settle. If you noticed even the slightest of relief as opposed to complete lifting of symptoms it would mean you are on the right track."

Bless you Heathcliff--I appreciate the encouragement. I know I've been much worse but I keep praying that I will stabilize

 

 

Liza,

 

Hang in there.  I know that is easier said than done.  Things will turn around for you when you least expect it.  That is always the case for me.  When I am in the midst of symptoms, I think they will never resolve and they usually do.

 

Take care of yourself,

 

Anne

Isn't that the truth Anne. The improvement from withdrawal is so slight and barely perceptible for quite awhile. Throw in the non linearity and it seems things will never change. You really have to focus on the minor improvements and be patient and Windows should start coming eventually. I'm glad I forced the 6 month hold. Depression seemed to be the main issue at the end but is letting up with the cut I just made. Must be the psychological boost of finally cutting again. Hope all struggling have patience with holding.  It does take commitment and determination. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't done it myself and may again just to be safe down the road.  --V

Valley, been watching this thread closely an you have been a big help to many ! Going to pay close attention to when and how you feel this last cut you made as this V is so weird when a cut is made and also not very Linear ! Good Luck I am pulling for you and everyone else ~CD

Thank you CD. Hope you are doing well! At least I know I get hit on day 3 or 4 and my lag time is 10 days when I get hit again which I didn't know when I first started. I am cutting very small so fingers crossed it will be smooth from now on. I'm feeling the cut already but it's very minor.  --V

 

Just curious V, are you microtapering or doing cut and hold

now that you have resumed your taper? How much did you cut? Just curious because I'm

around the same dose as you.

Hi Hope! I'm actually doing cut and hold right now. I just went through a debacle getting my Valium so I didn't get the prescription until I was out of Valium for one day. I didn't have time to liquefy any pills so I'm doing .5 cuts every other day. My plan is to cut .25mg every 2 weeks or more so it would be .02 daily cuts which I will start as soon as I can. I've had a real issue getting my meds lately lol. How are you doing?--V

 

V-

 

I'm doing OK thanks! I restarted my

Taper after surgery and the first cut went OK. I'm planning on doing another cut Monday of 0.5 mg and holding for at least 3 weeks. I saw about your med debacle. That would totally freak me out!

 

Bless you Heathcliff--I appreciate the encouragement. I know I've been much worse but I keep praying that I will stabilize

 

 

Liza,

 

Hang in there.  I know that is easier said than done.  Things will turn around for you when you least expect it.  That is always the case for me.  When I am in the midst of symptoms, I think they will never resolve and they usually do.

 

Take care of yourself,

 

Anne

Isn't that the truth Anne. The improvement from withdrawal is so slight and barely perceptible for quite awhile. Throw in the non linearity and it seems things will never change. You really have to focus on the minor improvements and be patient and Windows should start coming eventually. I'm glad I forced the 6 month hold. Depression seemed to be the main issue at the end but is letting up with the cut I just made. Must be the psychological boost of finally cutting again. Hope all struggling have patience with holding.  It does take commitment and determination. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't done it myself and may again just to be safe down the road.  --V

Valley, been watching this thread closely an you have been a big help to many ! Going to pay close attention to when and how you feel this last cut you made as this V is so weird when a cut is made and also not very Linear ! Good Luck I am pulling for you and everyone else ~CD

Thank you CD. Hope you are doing well! At least I know I get hit on day 3 or 4 and my lag time is 10 days when I get hit again which I didn't know when I first started. I am cutting very small so fingers crossed it will be smooth from now on. I'm feeling the cut already but it's very minor.  --V

 

Just curious V, are you microtapering or doing cut and hold

now that you have resumed your taper? How much did you cut? Just curious because I'm

around the same dose as you.

Hi Hope! I'm actually doing cut and hold right now. I just went through a debacle getting my Valium so I didn't get the prescription until I was out of Valium for one day. I didn't have time to liquefy any pills so I'm doing .5 cuts every other day. My plan is to cut .25mg every 2 weeks or more so it would be .02 daily cuts which I will start as soon as I can. I've had a real issue getting my meds lately lol. How are you doing?--V

 

V-

 

I'm doing OK thanks! I restarted my

Taper after surgery and the first cut went OK. I'm planning on doing another cut Monday of 0.5 mg and holding for at least 3 weeks. I saw about your med debacle. That would totally freak me out!

Good to hear Hope! 

The propaganda is so helpful V and I have my husband and daughter read it to keep reminding me when I forget.  I know that some things aren't as bad, but it's still so scary to be dealing with the stuff I'm dealing with.  But I've gone from complete hopeless and impossible to possibly doable with this hold.  It's just so hit and miss, up and down, never knowing if you're doing the right thing.  Still committed to holding and not feeling like updosing so I'm going to see if I can get to 6 months and re-evaluate.  I know i keep going back and forth on the updose--that's my benzo frantic.  But even that isn't as bad.  I'm really hoping it's the weather because everytime I take out the dog I come bag in feeling horrid which lasts for hours and my brain feels so confused.  In May I was able to drive 

Thanks again!  Hope your first cut is smooth as silk.

Some true ancient wisdom 

 

 

 

Long Time.

 

The famous seventeenth-century Ming painter Chou Yung relates a story that altered his behaviour forever. Late one winter afternoon he set out to visit a town that lay across the river from his own town. He was bringing some important books and papers with him and had commissioned a young boy to help him carry them. As the ferry neared the other side of the river, Chou Yung asked the boatman if they would have time to get to the town before its gates closed, since it was a mile away and night was approaching. The boatman glanced at the boy, and at the bundle of loosely tied papers and books—“Yes,” he replied, “if you do not walk too fast.” As they started out, however, the sun was setting. Afraid of being locked out of the town at night, prey to local bandits, Chou and the boy walked faster and faster, finally breaking into a run. Suddenly the string around the papers broke and the documents scattered on the ground. It took them many minutes to put the packet together again, and by the time they had reached the city gates, it was too late. When you force the pace out of fear and impatience, you create a nest of problems that require fixing, and you end up taking much longer than if you had taken your time.”

 

 

 

                Love Nova xxx :smitten:

 

 

 

 

Nice Nova!

 

I've found that a certain amount of calm comes once I've made a decision to just stay put for a set period of time.  I no longer have to constantly evaluate what to do, when to cut or how long to hold.  The urge to rush is removed.

Yes I've decided on at least six months and I'm at five but I've never stabilized in a long hold because I've never done one so its that not knowing what I'm aiming for and if I'm doing it wrong that makes me frantic. Should I expect to feel better than I do now when I cannot drive because of perceptual stuff, can't walk very far because of getting physically overwhelmed and now I'm back to not being about to think straight to work?  That's not stable right?  What is the definition of stable?  Symptoms are in the background not foreground right?  How do we know it's not side effects?

 

I didn't use to be a spazz. This is so humbling

Yes I've decided on at least six months and I'm at five but I've never stabilized in a long hold because I've never done one so its that not knowing what I'm aiming for and if I'm doing it wrong that makes me frantic. Should I expect to feel better than I do now when I cannot drive because of perceptual stuff, can't walk very far because of getting physically overwhelmed and now I'm back to not being about to think straight to work?  That's not stable right?  What is the definition of stable?  Symptoms are in the background not foreground right?  How do we know it's not side effects?

 

I didn't use to be a spazz. This is so humbling

As far as I know stabilization means no changes in sxs. If your sxs are still waxing and waning, you probably aren't stable yet. Hoping it comes soon for you! --V

Thanks V--and Nova for that great story that I'm saving to read often, and Lynn. Wishing you all the best today!

Thanks Nova that was a great Story, tis not an easy Journey we are on. Lynn hope you are doing well with your cut and I think Anne cut too, I may be wrong, and Valley how are you feeling with your cut, you probably do not feel anything. I remember going from 10mg to 5mg and having no problems at all and until I got down to 2.50mg I was cutting .25mg and then waiting for two months and restarting taper have found the smaller amts are the hardest. And long before Long support was thought of, in fact I remember when Oscar first came back he PM'd me and asked me a lot of questions as I think he had the notion of starting a couple of new threads, but then he started gobs, but the good thing we have this one, and so many great people here willing to help each other, I think Heathcliff did a cut also. Liza, Lainey and Free my heart goes out to all of you and I keep thinking that it is always darkest before the dawn, and if I do not get any responses to this post, I am staying away. I sometimes feel like I am just coasting along and no one sees me, see what happens when the Benzo's mess with our thoughts, that is  talk, I do not believe that for a second, but the Brain is so confused and needs so much time to absorb all the shock and trauma, after all it has been asleep while it was taken over by the Benzo's. All have the best day you can. Valley I am watching you closely  

 

thanks for the well wishes Begood.  So far, so good - but I'm only 1/2 way thru day 2.  Nothing yet.

Nova, I really like the story you posted. Goes right along with .... dont rush your taper or you'll wind up losing the time you thought you'd save.

Really made the point!

Now all I have to do is remember that when my benzo brain says "go ahead with it already!"

 

Id love it if you could post that story with a chicken above it so people can find it again when they need encouragement.

That's how I find VallyUm's long message when I need encouragement. I just go back and look for the chicken and the turtle!

 

Thanks Nova!  Heathcliff 

 

 

 

Heathcliff,

 

How are you doing today?

I see you BG and am so thankful for your calming spirit. I don't always reply to everyone because it's hard for me to keep up. Love YA sista!

Thanks Nova that was a great Story, tis not an easy Journey we are on. Lynn hope you are doing well with your cut and I think Anne cut too, I may be wrong, and Valley how are you feeling with your cut, you probably do not feel anything. I remember going from 10mg to 5mg and having no problems at all and until I got down to 2.50mg I was cutting .25mg and then waiting for two months and restarting taper have found the smaller amts are the hardest. And long before Long support was thought of, in fact I remember when Oscar first came back he PM'd me and asked me a lot of questions as I think he had the notion of starting a couple of new threads, but then he started gobs, but the good thing we have this one, and so many great people here willing to help each other, I think Heathcliff did a cut also. Liza, Lainey and Free my heart goes out to all of you and I keep thinking that it is always darkest before the dawn, and if I do not get any responses to this post, I am staying away. I sometimes feel like I am just coasting along and no one sees me, see what happens when the Benzo's mess with our thoughts, that is  talk, I do not believe that for a second, but the Brain is so confused and needs so much time to absorb all the shock and trauma, after all it has been asleep while it was taken over by the Benzo's. All have the best day you can. Valley I am watching you closely

I need to be watched lol. I always read your comments .  I'm feeling fine but have more anxiety than usual. Not much, just slight. It may just be a little fear from starting again. I'm hoping to keep "under the radar" with sxs so I'm going very slow. Thanks for the well wishes!  --V

Be good,

Good luck with your hold!

I Read your posts all the time. They makes sense to me. I am learning from experience, and from you, and what others have said, about cutting getting  much harder the lower your dose is.

I can't even make my daily cut of .01 for five days to get to a .05 drop and then  hold, without side effects.

I'm going to see what happens  in the next week.

I may just have to make an adjustment in my SO TINY CUTS ALREADY!  

Or go back to a hold of longer than two or three weeks. Will I ever get off this stuff!

 

There is just no end to finding  what works!

Good luck to you and every one else!

Heathcliff

Nova, I really like the story you posted. Goes right along with .... dont rush your taper or you'll wind up losing the time you thought you'd save.

Really made the point!

Now all I have to do is remember that when my benzo brain says "go ahead with it already!"

 

Id love it if you could post that story with a chicken above it so people can find it again when they need encouragement.

That's how I find VallyUm's long message when I need encouragement. I just go back and look for the chicken and the turtle!

 

Thanks Nova!  Heathcliff 

LOL. We have gardener to thank for the picture. It started way back in the thread. She found all kinds of funny pictures and we adopted the chicken/turtle as our mascots. I post the list every Monday so it's easier to find.  That was a great story from nova!  --V

  BG, Thats just the beaver talking, we all read every word you say and you are full of much wisdom so I"m sure you have helped so many.  I'm so  happy most are doing well.  I am like liza but just aren't as vocal I guess.  Lainey is sick also.  Just hanging on today. They say s/x cycle so I"m hoping maybe mine are cycling back down to feeling better. I started with the burning and progressed to the awful nausea, anxiety and mostly the anxiety is gone but that was never bad, only for a few hrs. here and there.  Then the nausea just about fell off.  Now the burning never really let up but last few days feet seem a little better but urinary area is bad again and nausea trying to come back.  I'm hoping these fall off and maybe I get some relief.  I am at 5 months now.  Still feeling very sick though so hopefully that will get better also, I can't function with this sick weak feeling.  So thankful for your help BG and Valley and all others who contribute.  ONe day I hope to really report that I feel much better and hope the same for you liza and lainey. 

Be good,

I Read your posts all the time. They makes sense to me. I am learning from experience, and from you, and what others have said, about cutting getting  much harder the lower your dose is.

I can't even make my daily cut of .01 for five days to get to a .05 drop and then  hold, without side effects.

I'm going to see what happens  in the next week.

I may just have to make an adjustment in my SO TINY CUTS ALREADY!  

Or go back to a hold of longer than two or three weeks. Will I ever get off this stuff!

 

There is just no end to finding  what works!

Good luck to you and every one else!

Heathcliff

Hi Heathcliff. Judging from your signature, I'm guessing it may take a little longer to get completely stable due to the rapid rate of your taper. At least you now know that just very small cuts caught up pretty fast so the cuts weren't wasted. You can up dose back to 5 days ago and hold or just hold and wait for sxs to drop off. I know you'll get stable with patience which is the thing I struggled with most throughout my hold. At least I'll never be afraid to do it again.  --V

  BG, Thats just the beaver talking, we all read every word you say and you are full of much wisdom so I"m sure you have helped so many.  I'm so  happy most are doing well.  I am like liza but just aren't as vocal I guess.  Lainey is sick also.  Just hanging on today. They say s/x cycle so I"m hoping maybe mine are cycling back down to feeling better. I started with the burning and progressed to the awful nausea, anxiety and mostly the anxiety is gone but that was never bad, only for a few hrs. here and there.  Then the nausea just about fell off.  Now the burning never really let up but last few days feet seem a little better but urinary area is bad again and nausea trying to come back.  I'm hoping these fall off and maybe I get some relief.  I am at 5 months now.  Still feeling very sick though so hopefully that will get better also, I can't function with this sick weak feeling.  So thankful for your help BG and Valley and all others who contribute.  ONe day I hope to really report that I feel much better and hope the same for you liza and lainey.

I'm sorry for the continued problems free. I had the burning feet and didn't think it would ever go away. It very gradually eased up and went away. I'm hoping it does the same for you. That's the problem with this process, one symptom goes and another takes its place. It's infuriating. Hoping for the big 6 month turn around for you!  --V

Hello everyone,

I tried cutting .01 for five days bringing me to .05 in five days. I'm holding now to see what happens. Getting small sfx but sometimes they are a a bit bad for about two hours. but also getting longer Windows.

Yesterday I had two Windows. One from waking up until about 3:00. Then 3:00 to about 7:30 was kind of bad. But then another window at 7:30 till about 10:00. I can't figure out this crazy up and down cycle. But the double Windows yesterday I think we're a good sign.

Well I'm holding now to see what happens next.

 

Lynn,Anne, Hope, and anyone else I forgot, I see you too have started cuts. Freeme and Laine, I sure hope you will be feeling better very soon, the rough days are really discouraging. I've had some really bad ones, but I don't think they were as bad as you two have described yours. Hang in there. Everyone is pulling for you! good luck and easy going to all of you,

Heathcliff

Vally, I am so jealous that you can make .02 cuts every day. I hope it works well for you. I could never do that! ,

Nova, I really like the story you posted. Goes right along with .... dont rush your taper or you'll wind up losing the time you thought you'd save.

Really made the point!

Now all I have to do is remember that when my benzo brain says "go ahead with it already!"

 

Id love it if you could post that story with a chicken above it so people can find it again when they need encouragement.

That's how I find VallyUm's long message when I need encouragement. I just go back and look for the chicken and the turtle!

 

Does the chicken represent how scared some of us are? And does the turtle represent... Go slow?

 

Thanks Nova!  Heathcliff 

LOL. We have gardener to thank for the picture. It started way back in the thread. She found all kinds of funny pictures and we adopted the chicken/turtle as our mascots. I post the list every Monday so it's easier to find.  That was a great story from nova!  --V

Nova, I really like the story you posted. Goes right along with .... dont rush your taper or you'll wind up losing the time you thought you'd save.

Really made the point!

Now all I have to do is remember that when my benzo brain says "go ahead with it already!"

 

Id love it if you could post that story with a chicken above it so people can find it again when they need encouragement.

That's how I find VallyUm's long message when I need encouragement. I just go back and look for the chicken and the turtle!

 

Does the chicken represent how scared some of us are? And does the turtle represent... Go slow?

 

Thanks Nova!  Heathcliff 

LOL. We have gardener to thank for the picture. It started way back in the thread. She found all kinds of funny pictures and we adopted the chicken/turtle as our mascots. I post the list every Monday so it's easier to find.  That was a great story from nova!  --V

Oops. I didn't answer the question. The chicken is for holding and the turtle is for tapering very slowly lol. You're either in "chicken mode" or "turtle mode" or a combination of both. 

LYNN,

 

DAY TWO OF MY HOLD AFTER CUTTING .05 total  in five days.

Side effects are def there.

But Windows still coming.

Yesterday had two Windows. One from waking until 3:00

Another from about8:00 to 10:30

I don't like the side effects but I love the Windows.

Discouraging when you are in a window and then bam, you get hit.

So I'm still holding at 1.20 of course, waiting to see what happens.

V reminded me that I could go back to 1.25 or stay at 1.2 and see what happens.

The sfx aren't terrible, just disconcerting, so I'm going to stay  at 1.20 and wait it out.

 

how's it going fir you?

 

I'm happy for V.  I hope his taper goes well.( I'm a bit jealous because I could never taper that fast! But I know it's my own fault. I really messed myself up at the beginning of my taper by going to fast. Live nd learn!). 

 

Heathcliff