3,2,1: Under 3 mg Valium people

Libr,

 

I always meant to go to once a day specially at lower doses but since at these lower doses I don’t actually feel back to baseline after a cut. I’m going to hold where I am for a good while and once stable switch to once a day dosing. I have read that it helps with sleep.

 

I started this journey on Ativan but could not tolerate the interdose withdrawals at anything under .75 mgs. That’s when I switched over.

 

You seem to be quite in control of things on your end. Very inspirational !

 

You are so close I envy you for that and wish you nothing but smooth sailing.

 

Thanks for sharing that with me.

 

Take care

 

ATU🙏

 

Thank you ATU for your kind words.  I wish smooth sailing for you too...and everyone on here. 

Hello everyone.

 

I’m trying to decide what to do with my taper.

I’m down to 2.73mg of Valium today and the withdrawal has been more intense.

I don’t know if I’m tapering too fast, or if this is just what happens when you get to a sub therapeutic dose.

**I am micro tapering by reducing .012mg per day.

I haven’t held in the last 4 months. Maybe I need a hold or is all of this par for the course?

How fast are all of you going?

 

Someone posted this on benzo buddies. I’m curious as to everyone’s take on it.

 

Re: Getting worse as I get lower

« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2019, 01:51:33 am »

Quote

Yes, this is common.  If you think about it, it makes sense.  Let's say you were taking 10mg of your dose and you taper down to 9mg.  That's a 10% decrease.  Once you get lower, then the % decrease actually gets bigger.  So, for example, if you decrease from 2mg to

1mg, that's a 50% decrease, even though it was only a 1mg decrease (just like from 10 to 9).  With your dose, even though you're

micro tapering, the cut is still going to be bigger as you get lower and lower (as a %).  So, the recommendation is usually smaller cuts

and longer holds as you get lower.  This is obviously frustrating, as you suggest, because you're so close to the finish line.

CMZ- yes, that quote makes sense. You have go the pace that keeps your sxs at a minimum, whatever that means.  Not zero, just not intense if possible. You asked about rates.  I did 0.008 mg per day of V equiv from 5.4 to 0.5mg V.  Now under 0.5V, I'm going 0.0065mg/day.  So, i did slower than you.  Many on here are going slower than you...you're rate would be way to fast for me.  But you have to find what's right for you.

CMZ- yes, that quote makes sense. You have go the pace that keeps your sxs at a minimum, whatever that means.  Not zero, just not intense if possible. You asked about rates.  I did 0.008 mg per day of V equiv from 5.4 to 0.5mg V.  Now under 0.5V, I'm going 0.0065mg/day.  So, i did slower than you.  Many on here are going slower than you...you're rate would be way to fast for me.  But you have to find what's right for you.

 

Sounds like really good advice. Thank you.

Did your withdrawal get easier for u at any dose as you got lower? 

And when you say not intense, do you have any examples of how to know what’s too fast based off symptoms? Thank you so much. This has been a 6 year journey of hell for me. I have a lot of ptsd from failed endings and I can’t mess up this time.

CMZ,

 

Libr, has offered great advise. It’s hard to put actual numbers or degrees of pain in this taper business.

I think you may want to hold until your feeling a bit more settled at this level then proceed with smaller cuts and find a cut size and rate that allows you some level of functionality.

 

You will have to see what suits you but going with smaller cuts as you get lower will leave feeling more ready for the next cut to come.

 

Peace & Healing

 

ATU🙏

I agree. Thank you both.

I’m going to hold for 1-2 weeks and then go back to tapering 10% a month.

My body and brain deserves a break.

That’s what I was doing well with. I’m only doing like 13% now that my dose has gotten lower, and even though I’m having symptoms I’m still having great days. I could probably push through at this rate but there’s no real benefit of dong that. Back to 10% I go.

CMZ,

 

You are one of the lucky ones who can withstand the 10% per month rate. I know that is what is recommended in the Ashton manual but many of us found it too hard and had make smaller cuts.

 

Then there is the life episodes that happen along the way. Since starting my taper attempt I have buried my Mother my sister and my Father. Inside that time I have had a few serious hospitalization for various maladies. Inside that my wife got cancer.

 

All these things effect us and can cause unexpected delays in cuts and even updoses at times though I do not recommend that option unless it’s a last ditch move.

 

You will be fine and if you find your planned 10% too much you can always reduce the cut after that.

 

ATU🙏

Gard,

 

What have you tried for sleep? I use a number of things in rotation.

Advil pm, Unisom- half a pill works great, trazadone - half a pill once or twice a week.

Then I also use Calms Forte -3 pills, and finally Hylands Tissue A - 4 plills.

 

Oh and then to help drop off quicker either a Melatonin or a spray of Bach’s rescue night.

 

Some of these are natural two are old antihistamines and one is RX.

 

Peace & Healing

 

ATU🙏

 

Thanks, ATU. I went through all the natural stuff myself years ago. Doctors tried all the prescriptions. Finally landed on Seroquel. Seroquel worked for several years. Seroquel is a really strong antihistamine, much stronger than anything OTC. Most of these off-label prescriptions work because they are antihistamines. I don't know why it's not working any more. For me, it's not about falling asleep. I can fall asleep. I'm so tired I can fall asleep sitting at the table trying to chew. I can't stay asleep for more than a few minutes. Sometimes a few seconds. The only thing I didn't have available back then was CBD. I haven't tried it yet because it's so expensive and because I think it also affects GABA in some way. And because I can't think straight to figure it out.   I see my prescriber the week. Trying to hang in there until then. Not sure what he can pull out of the hat. I think I've been through everything. Fortunately my daughter can take me and do the thinking for me because anything he says is going to go in one ear and out the other. Meanwhile, I am accepting as much as I can. The hard part about losing sleep is you need to focus to do acceptance and my focus is really going down the tubes. One little bright spot, when this happened all those years ago, my kids were teenagers, one special needs and still at home, and one in college who was just a wreck worrying about me and suffering from depression something awful. I was trying to take care of them. The stress of that was terrible. Now I don't have that stress any more. When I start to panic, I remind myself of that. That was then, this is now.

 

Gardie

Please verify for me.  When we get really low, even if we have been holding, a 5 percent reduction each month for Valium is the way to go?  Can we sustain two consecutive months of 5 percent reductions, and then hold for a while?

 

Thank you very, very much for keeping me on track.  I have been derailed four times this year from trying to go too fast. 

Gard,

 

What have you tried for sleep? I use a number of things in rotation.

Advil pm, Unisom- half a pill works great, trazadone - half a pill once or twice a week.

Then I also use Calms Forte -3 pills, and finally Hylands Tissue A - 4 plills.

 

Oh and then to help drop off quicker either a Melatonin or a spray of Bach’s rescue night.

 

Some of these are natural two are old antihistamines and one is RX.

 

Peace & Healing

 

ATU🙏

 

Thanks, ATU. I went through all the natural stuff myself years ago. Doctors tried all the prescriptions. Finally landed on Seroquel. Seroquel worked for several years. Seroquel is a really strong antihistamine, much stronger than anything OTC. Most of these off-label prescriptions work because they are antihistamines. I don't know why it's not working any more. For me, it's not about falling asleep. I can fall asleep. I'm so tired I can fall asleep sitting at the table trying to chew. I can't stay asleep for more than a few minutes. Sometimes a few seconds. The only thing I didn't have available back then was CBD. I haven't tried it yet because it's so expensive and because I think it also affects GABA in some way. And because I can't think straight to figure it out.   I see my prescriber the week. Trying to hang in there until then. Not sure what he can pull out of the hat. I think I've been through everything. Fortunately my daughter can take me and do the thinking for me because anything he says is going to go in one ear and out the other. Meanwhile, I am accepting as much as I can. The hard part about losing sleep is you need to focus to do acceptance and my focus is really going down the tubes. One little bright spot, when this happened all those years ago, my kids were teenagers, one special needs and still at home, and one in college who was just a wreck worrying about me and suffering from depression something awful. I was trying to take care of them. The stress of that was terrible. Now I don't have that stress any more. When I start to panic, I remind myself of that. That was then, this is now.

 

Gardie

Gard,

 

You know I tell myself the exact same thing. I’m retired now and my responsibilities are still many and command that I rise every morning at 7am. But at least I don’t have to face traffic and driving in and home any more. These are our blessings.

I can certainly understand how stressful your situation must have been back then.

I would say you have got this repetitive hell we go through pretty much figured out👌

 

I hope when you see your MD they give you something that works for you. I will be interested to find out how you made out with.

 

For what it is worth I was directed by another buddy some time ago to an app.( If you have an Android or Apple devise) it’s a free app called “ insight timer “  this app has a huge selection and variety of guided mediations and many for sleep. You should check it out, can’t heart.👍

 

Take care now, talk soon.

 

ATU🙏

ATU, I do use Insight Timer. It's wonderful. I think that Insight Timer and an audio-book called You Are Not Your Pain have saved my life. I would not have made it this far without them.

 

Julianna, there is no one-size-fits-all. Some buddies speed up at lower doses and some slow down. You go by how you feel. Just bear in mind that Valium has a long half life. You may not feel a cut until a week after you make it. With that disclaimer, 5%/month sounds safe to me.

 

Group, as time goes by with only 20-minute naps as my sleep, I will zone out more and more, so do not be surprised if I miss posts. Or I might be reading but not posting because I am not able to put a decent sentence together. Been there, done that before!

 

And don't worry, either. My daughter looks out for me. I will not fall off the earth with nobody noticing.

Gard,

 

Take care, hope you'll be back soon.

Wishing you better days and sending healing energy your way.👍

 

ATU🙏

Gardie, Oh no! The sleep will return bc it just has to.

 

This is a cruel, cruel hell we are enduring and I’ve seen over and over from buddies’ posts_ in this, it ain’t over til it’s over. I’m glad you have your daughter. My daughter looked after me thru much of this too even though she was only 7-10 yr old.  She refused to leave my side all those hours I spent crying, held me accountable to my self-care, showered me with sweet notes. It’s cruel beyond words for a young child to have to watch her mother suffer like this.

 

To those asking abt rates... you just go at whatever rate keeps you sane. If you have to slow, you have to slow. No one else can tell you what % to go down by. There are guidelines but ultimately you look at your taper history - what you tolerated and what you didn’t. And you really learn to listen to your body and your instinct. I know that is so fluffy and maddening when all you want is a concrete number with an assurance you will feel ok. I was desperate for that too.

 

I’ll always remember SG57’s famous explanation that you have to think about this as managing neuronal function, NOT just getting off.

 

Personally, I have found the DMT to really have been the only way I could get off. It makes sense to me and is the gentlest in the body. This does not mean no sxs or even minimally symptomatic necessarily...at least not for me. But it has allowed me to get to 0.25V equiv w/o the stressful guesswork of c/h. In fact, I found a good taper rate for me and don’t ever hold even a single day. Just makes sense to me to keep the stimulus to heal constant... I’m very sensitive and the less I change things, the better for me. Nothing wrong with other methods- just sharing my experience. Sorry for rambling. Good night buddies.

My daughter looked after me thru much of this too even though she was only 7-10 yr old.  She refused to leave my side all those hours I spent crying, held me accountable to my self-care, showered me with sweet notes. It’s cruel beyond words for a young child to have to watch her mother suffer like this.

 

 

I’ll always remember SG57’s famous explanation that you have to think about this as managing neuronal function, NOT just getting off.

 

I have had many major health setbacks, so my daughter has lived through a lot and helped me through a lot. It's made her a very compassionate adult who doesn't think life is just about having fun. You just keep letting that girl know you love her and she will grow up to be a wonderful and strong young lady.

 

SG57! Yes, I remember him saying that. Good words. So glad you repeated them.

 

OK, I will now get off the computer. Sleep or no sleep, I should not be on the screen!

 

Gardie

Hi everyone. I've found BB recently after tapering valium since June 2018. I started my taper at valium 5 mgs after 13 years on it. (FOUR YEARS AGO I CAME OFF VALIUM WITH A FASTER TAPER AND WAS OK FOR 5 MONTHS AND SILLY ME, I DIDN'T KNOW THIS WAS SO DANGEROUS AND STARTED TAKING IT AGAIN).

 

In this second taper that started in June 2018 I was doing ok cutting 0.25 mgs every 2 - 3 weeks which is less than the Ashton Manual recommends, as she says reduce 1 mg every 2 weeks. Well, lately I went from 1.25 to 1 and after 2 weeks down to 0.80. After two days at 0.80 a terrible wave came and I never knew till now what benzo withdrawal was. I thought I would dye, go crazy or both. This has been the hardest time of my life. I started taking rescue doses which didn't rescue me and finally I have updosed to 1.40 mgs. six days ago and I have not stabilized.

 

The wave is not as hard (it was "I think I'm not surviving this" level), but it has decreased to 30% of the intensity. I realised then I'm going to have to go much more slowly. I went yesterday to a psychiatrist and she tried to push lyrica or trazodone on me. I said "great I'll take the lyrica", and threw the prescription in the bin as soon as I got home. I was looking to find medical support with an extra slow taper but with doctors support is a utopia.

 

I'm planning to hold at 1.40 until I feel like myself again. I am very very scared as I didn't know this could get so terrible. The wave was panic attacks 24/7, anxiety like I never knew existed, no sleep, and all this having to work and raise my daughter on my own. I'm terrified. I don't know how long I'll have to hold on 1.40. I've come to this support group of under 3 mg valium and I see it can get difficult at these low doses. I would appreciate any suggestions and encouragement and please no negative comments telling me I'm kindled or doomed or any of that. Thank you and wishing everyone a successful taper.

Valiumnomore - you’re not doomed. You’re going to be ok! Given your history of being able to tolerate a pretty fast taper (by BB standards), I’m sure you’re going to be ok and get off w/o much more trouble. Takes time to feel better on an updose so give it a couple wks. Then just go down slower. Your choice on method. Could do smaller cuts but there is some guesswork there on how much to cut each time and then waiting for the potential aftermath. Or you could finish with a daily microtaper which takes away the guesswork. You don’t need a doctor to help you although it would be nice. But BB will help you. And then once you’re off, it would be safest to never take a benzo again.

Hi everyone. I've found BB recently after tapering valium since June 2018. I started my taper at valium 5 mgs after 13 years on it. (FOUR YEARS AGO I CAME OFF VALIUM WITH A FASTER TAPER AND WAS OK FOR 5 MONTHS AND SILLY ME, I DIDN'T KNOW THIS WAS SO DANGEROUS AND STARTED TAKING IT AGAIN).

 

In this second taper that started in June 2018 I was doing ok cutting 0.25 mgs every 2 - 3 weeks which is less than the Ashton Manual recommends, as she says reduce 1 mg every 2 weeks. Well, lately I went from 1.25 to 1 and after 2 weeks down to 0.80. After two days at 0.80 a terrible wave came and I never knew till now what benzo withdrawal was. I thought I would dye, go crazy or both. This has been the hardest time of my life. I started taking rescue doses which didn't rescue me and finally I have updosed to 1.40 mgs. six days ago and I have not stabilized.

 

The wave is not as hard (it was "I think I'm not surviving this" level), but it has decreased to 30% of the intensity. I realised then I'm going to have to go much more slowly. I went yesterday to a psychiatrist and she tried to push lyrica or trazodone on me. I said "great I'll take the lyrica", and threw the prescription in the bin as soon as I got home. I was looking to find medical support with an extra slow taper but with doctors support is a utopia.

 

I'm planning to hold at 1.40 until I feel like myself again. I am very very scared as I didn't know this could get so terrible. The wave was panic attacks 24/7, anxiety like I never knew existed, no sleep, and all this having to work and raise my daughter on my own. I'm terrified. I don't know how long I'll have to hold on 1.40. I've come to this support group of under 3 mg valium and I see it can get difficult at these low doses. I would appreciate any suggestions and encouragement and please no negative comments telling me I'm kindled or doomed or any of that. Thank you and wishing everyone a successful taper.

 

Hey Valiumnomore . Glad you are here at bb.  I'm afraid you are misreading Ashton, she is talking in percentages of your dose, not mgs, so you have actually been going very fast through your taper.  IMO, you may need to hold for a time.  Going so fast , triggered the horrible withdrawals.  There is a Long Hold Support Group under the Support Group thread.  You may want to just hold your taper and give your brain and central nervous system an opportunity to stabilize.  Stabalizing doesn't mean your symptoms will go away, it means they will become more tolerable, then once that happens, you can change your tapering speed and begin again.  Wish you lots of luck, Mary 💜💜💜

Mary 5588 and Liber, thank you very much for your support and your great advice. I feel that as I have updosed and I came off this drug too previous times (not knowing any better I went back on it), I fear I have been kindled or it has turned paradoxial as I keep reading in many places, and that's why my WDs are suddenly so terrible. The waves I'm getting last for half a day and it's a very high intensity like I never felt before, and realise I came off this drug twice before AND came off of lexapro. So IDK. You really think these waves will subside and I'll be more or less my withdrawing self after 14 days? I'm very worried. Screw me but I'm in charge of my 13 y/o daughter and I'm her WORLD. It breaks my heart if I stay in this way and can't be a decent mother. How do I know the wave will subside?? Some people say they never get better 

Mary 5588 and Liber, thank you very much for your support and your great advice. I feel that as I have updosed and I came off this drug too previous times (not knowing any better I went back on it), I fear I have been kindled or it has turned paradoxial as I keep reading in many places, and that's why my WDs are suddenly so terrible. The waves I'm getting last for half a day and it's a very high intensity like I never felt before, and realise I came off this drug twice before AND came off of lexapro. So IDK. You really think these waves will subside and I'll be more or less my withdrawing self after 14 days? I'm very worried. Screw me but I'm in charge of my 13 y/o daughter and I'm her WORLD. It breaks my heart if I stay in this way and can't be a decent mother. How do I know the wave will subside?? Some people say they never get better 

VnM, no one can really tell you an answer for that, everyone is different.  It could easily be longer than 2 weeks, I'm sorry, I know you don't want to hear that, however, your taper was very fast and your brain and central nervous system crave stability, and unfortunately, that can take awhile 

Mary 5588 and Liber, thank you very much for your support and your great advice. I feel that as I have updosed and I came off this drug too previous times (not knowing any better I went back on it), I fear I have been kindled or it has turned paradoxial as I keep reading in many places, and that's why my WDs are suddenly so terrible. The waves I'm getting last for half a day and it's a very high intensity like I never felt before, and realise I came off this drug twice before AND came off of lexapro. So IDK. You really think these waves will subside and I'll be more or less my withdrawing self after 14 days? I'm very worried. Screw me but I'm in charge of my 13 y/o daughter and I'm her WORLD. It breaks my heart if I stay in this way and can't be a decent mother. How do I know the wave will subside?? Some people say they never get better 

 

I'm sorry you are feeling so awful. I'm not sleeping well so not going to be able to write as well as the others, but I'll try.

 

It is NOT true that you don't get better. People say these things but because they are in waves. People who have said these things have gotten better, but their scary posts remain on benzo buddies and go on to scare more and more people. I am a parent, too, but my kids are gown. I was ill when they were younger. I know the pain of worrying about your children. It's normal and then the benzos magnifies it and it's terrible.

 

When my sleep improves, I will make more sense. For now just some simple advice:

 

Don't click around on the site and read scary threads.

Do read the pinned posts at the top of boards.

Find a few positive threads and stick to them.

Holding helps almost everyone to stabilize and get to a place where they can think better.

When you're in a bad place, don't think too much. Distract.

You only have to get through today.

Be the best mom you can be today. If you daughter knows you love her, you are being a good mom.

 

We are all getting through this. Everyone does get better. It just takes time.

 

Gardie

Mary 5588 and Liber, thank you very much for your support and your great advice. I feel that as I have updosed and I came off this drug too previous times (not knowing any better I went back on it), I fear I have been kindled or it has turned paradoxial as I keep reading in many places, and that's why my WDs are suddenly so terrible. The waves I'm getting last for half a day and it's a very high intensity like I never felt before, and realise I came off this drug twice before AND came off of lexapro. So IDK. You really think these waves will subside and I'll be more or less my withdrawing self after 14 days? I'm very worried. Screw me but I'm in charge of my 13 y/o daughter and I'm her WORLD. It breaks my heart if I stay in this way and can't be a decent mother. How do I know the wave will subside?? Some people say they never get better 

 

I did EXACTLY what you did.

I tapered Lexapro and then tried tapering Valium 2 months after (just like you are) and was in hell!

It is way too soon to taper another med in my opinion.

I had to wait til I was 4-5 months done with my lexapro taper before I could tolerate another taper.

 

My advice would be to let your CNS heal right now. Wait another 2 months minimum and let your serotonin receptors heal before u start stressing ur brain more.

There’s only so much brain injury a brain can take at one time.

Mary 5588 and Liber, thank you very much for your support and your great advice. I feel that as I have updosed and I came off this drug too previous times (not knowing any better I went back on it), I fear I have been kindled or it has turned paradoxial as I keep reading in many places, and that's why my WDs are suddenly so terrible. The waves I'm getting last for half a day and it's a very high intensity like I never felt before, and realise I came off this drug twice before AND came off of lexapro. So IDK. You really think these waves will subside and I'll be more or less my withdrawing self after 14 days? I'm very worried. Screw me but I'm in charge of my 13 y/o daughter and I'm her WORLD. It breaks my heart if I stay in this way and can't be a decent mother. How do I know the wave will subside?? Some people say they never get better 

 

I'm sorry you are feeling so awful. I'm not sleeping well so not going to be able to write as well as the others, but I'll try.

 

It is NOT true that you don't get better. People say these things but because they are in waves. People who have said these things have gotten better, but their scary posts remain on benzo buddies and go on to scare more and more people. I am a parent, too, but my kids are gown. I was ill when they were younger. I know the pain of worrying about your children. It's normal and then the benzos magnifies it and it's terrible.

 

When my sleep improves, I will make more sense. For now just some simple advice:

 

Don't click around on the site and read scary threads.

Do read the pinned posts at the top of boards.

Find a few positive threads and stick to them.

Holding helps almost everyone to stabilize and get to a place where they can think better.

When you're in a bad place, don't think too much. Distract.

You only have to get through today.

Be the best mom you can be today. If you daughter knows you love her, you are being a good mom.

 

We are all getting through this. Everyone does get better. It just takes time.

 

Gardie

Excellent post, two cylinders...

Thank you so much Gardener 99, Mary and CMZ. You have given me great advice and I feel seen and heard and understood. OK I'll hang onto those words that everyone gets better eventually. It's hard to resist the urge of taking more medication when I'm in this state and doctors push them when I go there. Maybe I should stop going. I'm sticking to this community. This and a woman on facebook called Cassie marie have been my lifesavers so far. I'll stick around and read your posts. Again THANK YOU.

Thank you so much Gardener 99, Mary and CMZ. You have given me great advice and I feel seen and heard and understood. OK I'll hang onto those words that everyone gets better eventually. It's hard to resist the urge of taking more medication when I'm in this state and doctors push them when I go there. Maybe I should stop going. I'm sticking to this community. This and a woman on facebook called Cassie marie have been my lifesavers so far. I'll stick around and read your posts. Again THANK YOU.

 

💜💜💜

I’m not quite at under 3 mg, my dose tonight is 3.091 mg, but I’m so excited to make it to this point, I had to share with people who will appreciate it. I will be below 3 mg on the 29th. Wishing you all health & healing. ❤️