3,2,1: Under 3 mg Valium people

Thank you so much Marija for sharing your insight - very helpful. I definitely need to isolate myself less - I went from being the most social person to some days not wanting to leave my apartment  - a total change in my personality.

 

Great to hear that the last 1mg was just the same as the mg before it. I was fine from 10-3mg then it got hard so started a DLMT and things are definitely more steady.

 

I am able to read and watch TV and get outside despite suddenly feeling agoraphobic while tapering. I feel so lucky that I only have 3 s/x as awful as they are. And usually feel much better at night.

 

You inspired me tonight and gave some great tips - thank you and congratulations on your benzo-free life!

 

Pete

Thank you so much Marija for sharing your insight - very helpful. I definitely need to isolate myself less - I went from being the most social person to some days not wanting to leave my apartment  - a total change in my personality.

 

Great to hear that the last 1mg was just the same as the mg before it. I was fine from 10-3mg then it got hard so started a DLMT and things are definitely more steady.

 

I am able to read and watch TV and get outside despite suddenly feeling agoraphobic while tapering. I feel so lucky that I only have 3 s/x as awful as they are. And usually feel much better at night.

 

You inspired me tonight and gave some great tips - thank you and congratulations on your benzo-free life!

 

Pete

 

Thank you, Pete

 

You sound in a good place; looking forward to seeing you at zero!

Bella Amis, I am just under 1 mg, using 5% cut and hold every 2 weeks , with much the same sx as Caltn. Can you elaborate on the method you suggested to her/him please? I have not been able to tolerate any liquids at all in the past. I am getting the feeling I will not get any better whilst still on valium at all but do not want to jump for fear of nasty sx.

 

Hey chenka44-

 

I think caltn is doing the liquid. I suggested to him to reduce approx. 5% (.003mgV per day) and be done with it.

 

It is my opinion that at these lower dose there is little to no therapeutic value to contiune taking the benzo is counter productive. It is my opinion that what one feels at this point is precisely how it feels when one steps off. Windows & waves, good days & bad days. That is how it has been reported for many of us who are sensitive and initially rapid tapered/ct.

 

Many folks seem to be paralyzed by fear.When one claims they "feel better" after "holding" for X amount of days, the reality is that at 1mg and below, if one was not on the benzo anymore they are more likely than not to feel the same as when tapering. I strongly suggest to folks to just try stepping off at .5mg -1mg and see how they feel. If symptoms become unbearable then go back to where you were. Chances are one will feel the same as when tapering....good days & bad days. Symptoms tend to wax and wane.

 

I did read through your posts. I am really sorry you are having such a difficult time. In some ways your story is similar is  to mine. I see you rapid taper then slowed down and have never really recovered from the shock of a initial rapid withdrawal. It seems to be common for those of us who rapid tapered/ct and are sensitive, to not benefit from long holds and slow tapers. For some reason we need to just get off the benzo due to our sensitivity issues.  I realize some may disagree with this, but this is how it has gone for many of us.

 

I have also taken note that some folks seem to be under a false pretense and say "All one must do to be side effect free while tapering is to micro taper for X amount of years and "hold" foe extended amounts of time...well this simply is not the case for everyone, especially for those of us who are extremely sensitive, long term users who were initially forced into rapid taper/ct.

 

I see where you initially dropped the V abruptly, rapid tapered, and now have been tapering from 3.5mg for the past year. Because you are on a low dose and are a sensitive, long term user who has tried everything possible with no relief,  I want to encourage you to continue tapering at a reasonable rate and be off the benzo. It may take a long while for you to fully heal but you will get there too. I assure you things will gradually get better once off and you will eventually get your life back to what your baseline was prior to benzo's. Do what ever you feel comfortable with trying.

 

Just want to share that I am now healed except for some minor neuropathy issues that probably stem from Cipro. I am fully functionally and now live a highly productive, active life.

 

I truly wish the very best for you, try not to let the fear deter you...you will get there too... 

Bella,

 

Do you think .5 is a good jumping point for Valium? That seems to be what Ashton says and also the famous Builder...

 

I have been doing pretty well the past 5 days on my micro taper then had a mini wave tonight (nights are usually my good time) - thankfully it passed...

Bella,

 

Do you think .5 is a good jumping point for Valium? That seems to be what Ashton says and also the famous Builder...

 

I have been doing pretty well the past 5 days on my micro taper then had a mini wave tonight (nights are usually my good time) - thankfully it passed...

 

Pete,

I know for Bella but I thought I would add my 2 cents.

 

It’s important to keep in mind that under 2 mgs V all we are doing is managing the exit of the accumulated diazepam. With its long 1/2 life, especially desmethyldiazepam, the accumulated blood serum level is approximately 5 to 8 times (depending on liver enzyme exiression)  the face value of the amount taken orally.  At .5, that can be as high as high as 8 x .5 mg of V which is high.

For those sensitive, that can potentially lead to a tough acute phase which will continue up to 6 weeks after hitting zero. With that in mind, taking a few additional cuts to further lower the blood serum level seems wise......

 

Builder was fortunate. I’ve been on BB for a while now and haven’t seen many people, if any,  duplicate Buider’s success.

Ss24 -

 

I was planning to go all the way to 0...probably will still do that. I just don't want to be slammed after I jump if I can avoid that in any way. And I do think our CNS is healing as we go lower and lower.

 

Builder was lucky with everything and he really uses all the information he learned to help so many people. He is truly a guru on this site.

Any tips on tapering this last 1 mg as I feel better or at least good enough to start tapering again.

Current sxs are, anxiety, off balance, vibrations in my legs, blurred vision, brain fog, feeling of needing an extra breath, rib pain, these come and go and some days aren't bad at all.

 

Reduce .003mg every day to zero (this is less than 5%) you will be done in 4 weeks and will more than likely feel the same as you do right now

 

Bella,

Am I misunderstanding?  .003v x 30 days only reduces .09.  Therefore, still have about  .90mg left to taper.  Do you mean to say that that you recommend a taper of .03v per day?  .03 x 30 days = .90.  Therefore, only have .1mgv left.  This is a 3% reduction PER DAY to start.  And increasing daily.

Would you please clarify. (P.S. I am tapering k, but am expressing equivalents to v for simplification).

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

So great to found all of you folks trying to get off the last mg or have done so.

 

I have Bern desperately looking for others experience to decide my tapering strategy for the 0.5mg valium.

 

Like many of you, I did a very fast taper by dropping 50% couple time from the initial dose of 2.5mg after being on it for 5 weeks for muscle spasm caused by back injury. I did it due to the severe side effects such as coma like status after taking doses, severe motor impairment feeling like paralyzed entire of my head to toe.. Somehow I was able to tough it out until 0.6mg when it got incredibly difficult to drop even 0.02mg with totally unbearable symptoms pain, numbness, stiffness, and many others.

 

Even with the super fast taper, the side effects keep catching up. So I'm really stuck in a hard place and a rock. I have been bed ridden 24/7 Ever since starting valium.

 

The most recent New side effect is the crazy itchy rash on my neck, back, other random body parts. It would get better every time I cut, and worse after each dose. I am not sure if this is an allergic reaction that I should stop the poison to avoid potential serious complications. I heard ppl saying rash can be a wd symptom, but mine is more like from the drug.

 

I found 0.5mg valium is not giving me relief from symptoms like it did before, but dropping dose tiny as 0.01mg still ramps up huge wd

 

I would really appreciate if anyone can share your experience or thoughts about the following questions.

 

How does everyone feel about the valium low dose? Do you still feel it's effectiveness? If not, do you feel wd effects when cutting?

 

Thanks!

4mom

 

 

 

 

Marija,

 

Congratulations!!!  So you cut all the way--  how di you measure such tiny amounts at the end?

 

Thanx!

 

So great to found all of you folks trying to get off the last mg or have done so.

 

I have Bern desperately looking for others experience to decide my tapering strategy for the 0.5mg valium.

 

Like many of you, I did a very fast taper by dropping 50% couple time from the initial dose of 2.5mg after being on it for 5 weeks for muscle spasm caused by back injury. I did it due to the severe side effects such as coma like status after taking doses, severe motor impairment feeling like paralyzed entire of my head to toe.. Somehow I was able to tough it out until 0.6mg when it got incredibly difficult to drop even 0.02mg with totally unbearable symptoms pain, numbness, stiffness, and many others.

 

Even with the super fast taper, the side effects keep catching up. So I'm really stuck in a hard place and a rock. I have been bed ridden 24/7 Ever since starting valium.

 

The most recent New side effect is the crazy itchy rash on my neck, back, other random body parts. It would get better every time I cut, and worse after each dose. I am not sure if this is an allergic reaction that I should stop the poison to avoid potential serious complications. I heard ppl saying rash can be a wd symptom, but mine is more like from the drug.

 

I found 0.5mg valium is not giving me relief from symptoms like it did before, but dropping dose tiny as 0.01mg still ramps up huge wd

 

I would really appreciate if anyone can share your experience or thoughts about the following questions.

 

How does everyone feel about the valium low dose? Do you still feel it's effectiveness? If not, do you feel wd effects when cutting?

 

Thanks!

4mom

I didnt feel any effectiveness or therapeutic value throughout my taper.. The dose was just there to minimise WD sx... But I do hear people talk of this transition, -often around 1 or 2v ish..  I just think my experiences were different... For me, and my situation it was best to very slowly tease the V out...

From what you just wrote, I wonder if things might not lay the other way for you, and a firmer more structured reduction might be worth some thought..?? Others with closer experiences might be best weighing in on that..??

 

As to whats being discussed here on the thread (not unnecessarily draging out a taper) .. It sounds like pretty sound advice for the majority, but those that it doesnt quite fit for, they might find it best to adapt as suits... Different types of being "sensitive" could suggest diverging from the norm in either direction, faster or slower (or not at all)..  It can be handy, if its possible, to use prior tapering history as a bit of a guide or indicator... -Not always possible in unstable situations, and a little caution might just be simply prudent..??

 

All I know about Symptom Free tapering, is that the "Free" bit is a term I used to use quiet wrongly..!! Until it was pointed out..

On a bit of thought, what I usually meant was tapering with the intent of minimising symptoms.... That is, those that did fluctuate... -not the entrentched constants... Im glad I had some wriggle room when I jumped from 0.25v by pill splitting, -I used it up for a variety of reasons that were not all taper related...

Looking back, I think it would be best to expect a bit of a shake up of SX around jump time, and while a lot of that might be independent of tapering speed, I do think that speed has some bearing on the intensity and duration... Some may need, or choose, to weigh it more heavily than others...

If one is going to follow anothers example, just give some thought as to how compatable it is, and all should go well...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Marija,

 

Congratulations!!!  So you cut all the way--  how di you measure such tiny amounts at the end?

 

Thanx!

 

Thank you, Barbara.

 

I used an analytical scale that measures to 3 decimal places, and using a needle nosed tweezer, pinched off .002g every few days.  I used the brand named V which is a harder pill and didn't crumble much. 

 

https://www.oldwillknottscales.com/and-newton-ej-123.html

American-Weigh-GEMINI-20-Portable-MilliGram/dp/B0012TDNAM - I also have this one for traveling.  It is accurate enough but jumps around.

 

Marija

I feel blessed to read everyone's experiences and advice above. I know that this last 1mg V is going to be my own journey down a path of being off.

I think having support is going to be my major factor because everyone I  know including my doctor doesn't understand what we go through in withdrawal.

I have family and friends and all ask how I'm doing and I generally reply with I'm doing ok.  Unless you've been through this benzo hell you'll never understand.

I just feel blessed I  can come on here and fill at home when I ask for opinions, or express my sxs and everyone understands.

On a good note, I started tapering again today.

 

 

Thanks for everyone's support.

Marija,

 

Congratulations!!!  So you cut all the way--  how di you measure such tiny amounts at the end?

 

Thanx!

 

Thank you, Barbara.

 

I used an analytical scale that measures to 3 decimal places, and using a needle nosed tweezer, pinched off .002g every few days.  I used the brand named V which is a harder pill and didn't crumble much. 

 

https://www.oldwillknottscales.com/and-newton-ej-123.html

American-Weigh-GEMINI-20-Portable-MilliGram/dp/B0012TDNAM - I also have this one for traveling.  It is accurate enough but jumps around.

 

Marija

 

I've the Gemini 20 but have use it so much the surface of the metal dish is coming off!!My Dad taught chemistry and had an old gram scale but that is long gone, alas.  the kind with the two hanging dishes.

 

With the Gemini, wonder if you put a paperclip in there it would weigh x amount and might be more accurate?  Was thinking of that....

It does jump, I weigh things out 3 or 4 times...

Any tips on tapering this last 1 mg as I feel better or at least good enough to start tapering again.

Current sxs are, anxiety, off balance, vibrations in my legs, blurred vision, brain fog, feeling of needing an extra breath, rib pain, these come and go and some days aren't bad at all.

 

Reduce .003mg every day to zero (this is less than 5%) you will be done in 4 weeks and will more than likely feel the same as you do right now

 

Bella,

Am I misunderstanding?  .03v x 30 days only reduces .09.  Therefore, still have about  .90mg left to taper.  Do you mean to say that that you recommend a taper of .03v per day?  .03 x 30 days = .90.  Therefore, only have .1mgv left.  This is a 3% reduction PER DAY to start.  And increasing daily.

Would you please clarify. (P.S. I am tapering k, but am expressing equivalents to v for simplification).

 

Thanks.

 

Hi circlestar-

 

That was a typo. K is metabolized differently. I was speaking of tapering from 1mg of Valium. Because of the decline in therapeutic value and the fact that Valium has a long half life (it tends to be "self tapering") I am not applying the percentage drop with this particular strategy. It is my opinion based on experience, that at this stage it is reasonable for sensitive folks who may be having a difficult time or an adverse reaction to benzo to taper at the rate of approx. .03mg per day and be done with it in a month or so. Just another strategy...

 

 

Hi Everyone -

 

I am at 2.94mg of Valium doing a DLMT. I cut from 10mg of Valium to 2.5mg pretty fast (following Ashton, dropping 1mg every 7-10 days). It went well until I got to 2.5 and w/d was awful so up-dosed to 3mg and held for 3 weeks which did nothing so started a DLMT.

 

I am now going pretty slow but the s/x are not getting any better - maybe even worse. I really worry that my too-fast taper at the start has screwed me up and I have been tempted to updose again but will not let myself do that. I am tapering very slow now, 2.95 to 2.94 to 2.93 etc...

 

This morning was rough - I was tempted to quit the whole taper and just go back on Valium for life (another thing I would never do but when in a bad wave, my mind tells me crazy things).

 

So my plan is just to keep tapering at this rate and hope for the best. It's just getting hard. I was also planning to taper down to 0 but might jump at .25 if I feel OK then.

 

Any tips or support would be great.

 

Thanks so much!

Hi Everyone -

 

I am at 2.94mg of Valium doing a DLMT. I cut from 10mg of Valium to 2.5mg pretty fast (following Ashton, dropping 1mg every 7-10 days). It went well until I got to 2.5 and w/d was awful so up-dosed to 3mg and held for 3 weeks which did nothing so started a DLMT.

 

I am now going pretty slow but the s/x are not getting any better - maybe even worse. I really worry that my too-fast taper at the start has screwed me up and I have been tempted to updose again but will not let myself do that. I am tapering very slow now, 2.95 to 2.94 to 2.93 etc...

 

This morning was rough - I was tempted to quit the whole taper and just go back on Valium for life (another thing I would never do but when in a bad wave, my mind tells me crazy things).

 

So my plan is just to keep tapering at this rate and hope for the best. It's just getting hard. I was also planning to taper down to 0 but might jump at .25 if I feel OK then.

 

Any tips or support would be great.

 

Thanks so much!

 

I think it would be wise to slow way down and even hold. You're the first one I've read about  that has tapered  that fast. 10V to 3 V in in that amount of time frame is very fast. From my experience you're going to experience different sxs at different stages, some are very bad and takes holding so take it very slow. I have up dosed myself a year ago, I was feeling good so the more I did then got slammed with over stimulation of my nervous system. I learned my lesson, this isn't a race so take it slow.

Thanks Caltn - I am taking it slow now and trying to stick with the DLMT plan of 5% every 2 weeks from the original dose. I would like to avoid up-dosing. When you up-dosed was it a problem? I don't even know what dose I would go back up to.

Thank you so much cantfly for sharing your thoughts and expertise!

 

I see you finished the last 0.5mg in 1 yr. Congratulations to be drug free! I can imagine the hardship and willpower it takes!

 

How did you taper and how did go ?  I hope your last step was a smooth walking off.

 

How are you feeling now?

 

Sending healing vibes and a big hug!

4mom

 

Marija,

 

Congratulations!!!  So you cut all the way--  how di you measure such tiny amounts at the end?

 

Thanx!

 

Thank you, Barbara.

 

I used an analytical scale that measures to 3 decimal places, and using a needle nosed tweezer, pinched off .002g every few days.  I used the brand named V which is a harder pill and didn't crumble much. 

 

https://www.oldwillknottscales.com/and-newton-ej-123.html

American-Weigh-GEMINI-20-Portable-MilliGram/dp/B0012TDNAM - I also have this one for traveling.  It is accurate enough but jumps around.

 

Marija

 

I've the Gemini 20 but have use it so much the surface of the metal dish is coming off!!My Dad taught chemistry and had an old gram scale but that is long gone, alas.  the kind with the two hanging dishes.

 

With the Gemini, wonder if you put a paperclip in there it would weigh x amount and might be more accurate?  Was thinking of that....

It does jump, I weigh things out 3 or 4 times...

 

Hi Barbara.

 

Yes, with the Gemini, I think that's a good idea adding additional weight when weighing the smallest gram weights if that helps control the fluctuations.

 

I will share Barbara, the advice of the compounding pharmacist I spoke with after purchasing my higher end scale, was to focus on the consistency of cutting over the accuracy.  When we reach sub 2 mg, the dose may no longer be therapeutic but still is present in our blood serum up to 8 times the value of what is orally ingested.  If long holds, slow precise 10%, or smaller, cuts per month and updosing no longer bring stability or mitigate symptoms, and the goal is to get off, slowly and consistently removing grams of the drug to zero will help managed the exit of the accumulated valium and help soften the blow of the acute phase of withdrawal post taper. 

 

To help with consistency, he suggested making all cuts for a week in the same location with similar air variables and batch of pills.  He also suggested weighing and storing the cut pieces on compounding paper (to catch all crumbs etc)  Here's a link:  https://www.amazon.com/Thomas-Square-Weighing-Paper-Nitrogen/dp/B006T5B5JU

 

Marija

 

Thanks Caltn - I am taking it slow now and trying to stick with the DLMT plan of 5% every 2 weeks from the original dose. I would like to avoid up-dosing. When you up-dosed was it a problem? I don't even know what dose I would go back up to.

I up dosed 1 mg cause I couldn't function and it took awhile to stabilize. I thought I would never be able to taper but I keep moving forward. Once I down to around 2 mg I didn't experience any sxs at all for a long time and thought I would feel great all the way down. I was wrong, once I started tapering again and got to 1.5 mg sxs came back but different sxs. I held and slowly tapered to 1 mg.

Anxiety has lessoned along with other sxs so like I said you going to experience different sxs at different stages.

Thanks Caltn - I am taking it slow now and trying to stick with the DLMT plan of 5% every 2 weeks from the original dose. I would like to avoid up-dosing. When you up-dosed was it a problem? I don't even know what dose I would go back up to.

I up dosed 1 mg cause I couldn't function and it took awhile to stabilize. I thought I would never be able to taper but I keep moving forward. Once I down to around 2 mg I didn't experience any sxs at all for a long time and thought I would feel great all the way down. I was wrong, once I started tapering again and got to 1.5 mg sxs came back but different sxs. I held and slowly tapered to 1 mg.

Anxiety has lessoned along with other sxs so like I said you going to experience different sxs at different stages.

 

Thanks caltn for sharing your experience. I have had the same s/x the whole time I have been tapering - not sure how long that will last. The one thing I have noticed is that they get worse the lower I go with valium...

Thank you Bella for clarifying.  It’s easy to make typos.

You are welcome circlestar

Sober,

 

  I tapered 2 mg from 30mg every week till I hit 10mg.  I think I hurt my CNS bcuz it took me 3 months to stabilize.  I read that is can be sheer hell at the lower doses.  I fear at my age, whether I'll be able to tolerate it and/or get through it without damage to my body?  I spoke to a doctor online who is at .5 and she said it is hell.

 

Scares me to bits seriously.  I cannot take ADs or Beta Blockers.  What hope is there for me to get through this? 

 

  I also watch Neighbor Bob talk about it being like the worst right before you are off of it.  I believe him.  And it scares me.

Hope - it scares me too, big time, and I am not even close to .5 - but it's important to realize that you are not the same as Bob or your doctor friend. I have to force myself not to project my own w/d on other people's stories. And for every Neighbor Bob, there is a Builder or someone else who stepped off and did not suffer. And Builder is 73 now. I don't think age matters. I am 44. There are people of all ages here.

 

Today has been one of my worst days in a long time...but usually that means tomorrow will be better. Tomorrow WILL be better. And every day is one day closer to healing.

 

My heart is with you Hope. I have your back in this. We WILL heal. And remember also that many people have had less of a hard time when they get lower - we just can't predict what will happen (which stinks) so we have to truly pray for the best.

 

Sending you a virtual HUG