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Xanax to Valium crossover plan needed- finally got script


[Ki...]

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I got the script for valium. I was kind of shocked to see how low she wrote it out for. I will have to do the best I can until I can get back in to see her but I hope she doesnt mind adjusting this. I gotta do something though because I went in the store and had bad depersonalization etc- this is new and it tells me its time...

Presently on X .0312 mg 6AM, Noon, 6 PM. BEDTIME - always just took for sleep- .5312 mg and another .0312 at 2 AM.

VALIUM script she gave me 60 - 5 mg pills then the second script is for 70 - 2 mg pills w 1 refill. Im hoping she just took this off the ashton paperwork I left with her and shes going to be willing to tweak. Shes written me 1 mg xanax for many years so there is that hope. But for now I need to get started with a crossover plan. Since I take it for sleep only except now to hold down my brand new IDWDs, I would prefer to keep dosage at night...

Any help VERY much appreciated.

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[67...]

By my calculations you need to cross to about 12mg Valium / day to replace what you're now taking. So she's given you only about a 1 month supply of Valium . Did you discuss with her the crossover/taper plan? Do you have a follow-up appointment scheduled, or did she say to call her when you need a refill, or what?  I can suggest a crossover schedule but I want to make sure you'll be able to obtain the needed Valium a month from now...

 

Also can you clarify what you're now doing? I.e. is it this?

6am .0312X, noon .0312X, 6pm .0312X, bedtime .5312X + 1.5A, 2am .0312X

 

Also, why the strange numbers like .0312 and .5312? This makes the math kind of difficult...

 

Generally what you want to do during the crossover is gradually build up the Valium to the desired 12mg/day while at the same time gradually dropping what you're now taking. You'll want to front-load the Valium to give it a chance to build up in your system. I think you can cross in about a week with a schedule something like:

 

Day 1 - (what you're now taking) + 6mgV at bedtime

Day 2 - (reduce what you're now taking) + 7mgV at bedtime

Day 3 - (again reduce what you're now taking) + 8mgV at bedtime

Day 4 - (again reduce what you're now taking) + 9mgV at bedtime

Day 5 - (again reduce what you're now taking) + 10mgV at bedtime

Day 6 - (again reduce what you're now taking) + 11mgV at bedtime

Day 7 - *just* the 12mgV at bedtime

 

I didn't fill in the exact numbers for the "(reduce what you're now taking)" parts because I don't understand your complicated dosing regimen. But generally you'll want to do during this crossover week is drop away the .0312X doses and also drop the Ambien and also gradually reduce to zero the .5312X bedtime dose. The exact order you do these things I'll have to leave up to you.

 

Once you've crossed, it all becomes a lot simpler because you can just take your one evening dose of Valium in pill form. But do make sure up front you'll be able to get the needed Valium.

 

Good luck!

 

Chessplayer

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I know its a weird X dose- I just hit tolerance a few weeks ago and Im trying to add in the least I can during daytime to hold down wd symptoms. Today I did need a little more- like a scale weight of .020 instead of .017 g which is .0312? mg - just because its close to an even cut in a pill. She discontinued my xanax so I certainly hope she intends to write more refills. Im going to make another appointment for next week, I dont think after all these years of handing me xanax she will dump me but if she does I guess I go hat in hand to the community mental health center cause I cant go on like this. A starting point is fine for now- I can handle a week at a time on instructions. I see other people immediately decrease their X when they start, is just adding on to present dose a normal thing? Im new here so Im easily confused! Thank you!
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[67...]
I suggest starting by adding on to your current dose because Valium takes time to build up in your system. Its half-life is 1 week, and the 20:1 equivalency formula is based on steady-state dosing (i.e. once it's built up) not on a one-time dosing. Starting the Valium a day earlier than you start dropping the other stuff gives it a bit of time to start building up in your system.
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Maybe it would be good to take one of the valium mid day and the other at night with the xanax. I only got 10 mg a day not 12. I could take my other script in I guess but I thought she wrote that for next month. Im confused. Maybe I read it wrong!

 

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Kitty,

 

I feel compelled to point out that what CP is suggesting is not a standard way of crossing.  He is accelerating the process by front-loading the dose to save time.  This is unusual and, in my mind, adds risk.  The typical way to cross is to just swap some percentage of your dose and give it time.  Crosses usually take a month or more.  CP's is trying to cut this to a week or so.

 

CP,

 

You may know how to do this, but I don't think it's right to suggest someone else do it without letting them know it is your own method and is not used by others.  Sorry to be direct, but this needs to be pointed out.

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Im not in a hurry. I just want to do it safe and the best way possible. I have a fair bitof xanax left, probably enough to last 2 months on my normal dose. Im going to see the doc asap to let her know I want to do this safe and slow and I hope shes ok with it. I even shaved more off my ambien last night. Since Im on such a weird dose should I just take like a tenth of a pill this morning to get it going and my teeny xanax doses today? Then tonight I would swap about a third of my night xanax dose whatever that is and like 3 mg valium since she has me down at 10 mg? Before the IDWDs started a .5 of X was usually enough for me. Hell some nights it was less than that...
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[67...]

Well, my method worked for me :)  But of course, you can choose to do a more gradual 1-month cross as SG suggests. It would have the advantage of stretching out your Valium supply a bit longer. In any case you'll need a refill within a couple months, so do ensure that refills will be forthcoming.

 

The standard equivalency formulas would suggest crossing to 12mg, but I think you could get away with crossing to just 10mg if you prefer.

 

Kitty, you can fill both prescriptions at once. If you only fill the 5mg prescription you will have trouble measuring out Valium doses that are not a multiple of 5. With the 5mg and the 2mg pills you can easily measure any integer mg amount without resorting to dissolving or crushing-and-weighing pills. The 2mg pills are scored in the middle and can easily be cut into 1mg halves. I suspect that's why the doctor wrote both prescriptions.

 

Good luck with your cross and your subsequent taper. Keep us posted.

 

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I will take that 2 mg script in this morning. Her instructions were definitely not clear since I didnt get to speak with her. This sounds like a good way to do it. I will get the other filled as well. If anyone has time today to chime in with some suggested numbers I would really appreciate it. I can start out at 12 daily and taper from there. Hopefully mine was more interdose and metabolism change than that bizarro often feared " relative withdrawal"- since my symptoms were things I had never had before ( I only took it for sleep for 14 years and occasional panic attacks but they were very mild, nothing like this and that was only during the first year).  Its a messy business this benzo thing.

Thanks so much y'all!!

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Im not in a hurry. I just want to do it safe and the best way possible. I have a fair bitof xanax left, probably enough to last 2 months on my normal dose. Im going to see the doc asap to let her know I want to do this safe and slow and I hope shes ok with it. I even shaved more off my ambien last night. Since Im on such a weird dose should I just take like a tenth of a pill this morning to get it going and my teeny xanax doses today? Then tonight I would swap about a third of my night xanax dose whatever that is and like 3 mg valium since she has me down at 10 mg? Before the IDWDs started a .5 of X was usually enough for me. Hell some nights it was less than that...

 

That's a lot of X.  What you might do is cross only to the V amount with which you will not run out, and keep the rest X.  Then, when ready to taper, taper the X first.

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Well, my method worked for me :)  But of course, you can choose to do a more gradual 1-month cross as SG suggests. It would have the advantage of stretching out your Valium supply a bit longer. In any case you'll need a refill within a couple months, so do ensure that refills will be forthcoming.

 

The standard equivalency formulas would suggest crossing to 12mg, but I think you could get away with crossing to just 10mg if you prefer.

 

Kitty, you can fill both prescriptions at once. If you only fill the 5mg prescription you will have trouble measuring out Valium doses that are not a multiple of 5. With the 5mg and the 2mg pills you can easily measure any integer mg amount without resorting to dissolving or crushing-and-weighing pills. The 2mg pills are scored in the middle and can easily be cut into 1mg halves. I suspect that's why the doctor wrote both prescriptions.

 

Good luck with your cross and your subsequent taper. Keep us posted.

 

Yeah, front-loading is something that could work I'm sure.  It always seemed a bit tricky to me since the extra amount of V needed would depend on the HL's of the two drugs and we really don't know what they are with any accuracy, since HL's can cover a pretty wide range.

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I could do that too. Im not sure how, but if anyone is willing to work with me on a schedule- even just for this week to get me started I would be very, very grateful. I am up for whatever works. I think the doc will be up for the longer term valium taper, I just need to explain it to her in person. I guess there is no way to know which is better, crossing over fully to V and tapering from there or tapering the X after a stable week....
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HELL ON TOAST they dont have the 2 mg pills. Is 1 mg in the day of v a good starting point then? Or should I just wait until tonight and hope for some help with numbers? I understand the idea of replacing some amount with some equivalent amount but I dont know the numbers :(

Im going to start with 1 mg and see if it holds down my IDWDs. I hope so. Maybe by tonight someone will have time to help me find a remaining dose for tonight. I really appreciate the help yall... Sorry Im so pitiful.

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HELL ON TOAST they dont have the 2 mg pills. Is 1 mg in the day of v a good starting point then? Or should I just wait until tonight and hope for some help with numbers? I understand the idea of replacing some amount with some equivalent amount but I dont know the numbers :(

Im going to start with 1 mg and see if it holds down my IDWDs. I hope so. Maybe by tonight someone will have time to help me find a remaining dose for tonight. I really appreciate the help yall... Sorry Im so pitiful.

 

It's just "20."  Whatever your X dose is, multiply it by 20 and that is the V amount that replaces it.  So 1mg V is .050mg X.

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So is a decent crossover start

.35 x at bedtime instead of .51325

and 3 mg valium with

1 mg valium daytime and .3125 x if I need it? Maybe I will get lucky and the 1 mg V I just took will help with those idwds! If not since V takes time to work I could try to get by on crumbs.

Does that sound like a decent starting point?

And I may just skip the ambien I dont think it works anyway

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Don't ignore the ambien, it is definitely part of this.  It is like taking X.

 

I forget your dose, so I will assume it is .6125mg X+2.5mg Ambien.  That is like .675mg X - that's your dose.  I'd replace the ambien first with V.  2.5mg A is 1.25mg V.  You could do that in one shot.  It's a little bigger than swaps I like to make, but it will be okay.  Be ready for the V.  It might make you drowsy.

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I took 1 mg an hour ago since the xanax idwds were getting quicker (4 hrs as opposed to 6) so Im one mg V in the can today.

I only took about 1.5 A the past few nights but the  X was .6125.

1 mg V feels like recuperating from the flu with benadryl. I def want to only take this at night once the Idwds get under control.

So once I figure out my night dose- was I close?- I will do this for about a week if it feels tolerable?

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Your dose is .675mg X so 13.5mg V.  This includes the ambien.  You are now on 1mg V so that was a 7.4% swap.  You'll need a few days before you can swap more.  I'd start chipping away at the night dose next.  It might make you sleep well for a while.
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I def will. I guess my case really is weird. Im sure it was a metabolism thing. This 1 mg valium really did knock out the IDWDs. I see some people use valium to hold off the withdrawal symptoms then taper off the xanax - I hadnt thought of that but most people end up crossing over to valium later on anyway- must be harder to go off the xanax due to the strength.

Thanks yall fr helping me with this. I will just take the X tonight ( and my smidge of ambien) And hopefully tomorrow move towards night only everything.

- kittyzombiebag-

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My usual bedtime dose is .51325

I took 1 mg valium at noon so I need to take how much xanax tonight? I came up with .45  mg gotta work out the weight if thats right-  :o .5 mg pill weighs .131 g

Plus my shred of ambien...I had already taken my 6 AM dose of .03125 x- do I still take the regular doses of xanax at 2 am and 6 am then another valium 1 mg at noon?

 

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Reason I ask is cause I did not take my noon x or 6 pm dose today - is that bad? Gad I am an idiot. I need a babysitter for my damned brain. Taking my 6 pm dose now.

Very frustrated with my lack of inability to follow basic instructions

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X needs to be dosed on its schedule and V on its own schedule.  So whatever X you did not replace gets dosed as usual.

 

You need to decide on definite doses and times and stick with them.  I am having trouble following what you are doing.  We went through all this a day or two ago.

 

I really think you should replace the ambien first.

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My schedule is the same now. The valium made me fuzzy and I forgot my noon dose and was an hour late on the six pm one. I'm subbing the valium for part of my night dose which to me looks like .45 x and a shred of ambience as I was down to 1 mg last night. I wasn't sure my math was right. Thank you for the help. I will take the valium a little later each day until it's eventually at night I guess.
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Alright here we goooo  :P

 

I've tried my best to take the doses and make the schedule.

 

Dose 4 and 5 ( evening and 2 am) will now be combined.

 

Kittybean's schedule on Xanax is now, currently

 

Dose 1  0.03125

 

Dose 2. 0.03125

 

Dose 3.  0.03125

 

Dose 4( now combined with dose 5) 0.5625

 

 

This is the pm I sent and I hope Sg or Builder or another math wizard will take a look and make sure I got the math right.

I triple checked.

Just sharing on the board for safety

 

I think maybe it can be adjusted to make the numbers more round. But I got a message from Kittybean that she now gets it, how it works:

 

 

 

COPY OF PM

 

 

 

So, now what we do.. We take half off of your dose of Xanax and replace it with Valium

 

So, instead of taking 0.03125 in the morning , for example..

That is 0.625 mgr of Valium.

 

But we cross gradually. So, ideally you'd take half of your Xanax dose in week one.

And then replace that other half with Valium equivalent.

 

So Xanax 0.01562 ( half of 0.3125)

PLUS

0.3125 Valium ( half of 0.625)

 

That is for week one .

You do this for a week.

 

Then week two, you do the same for your next dose.

 

Week three , do the some from your next dose.

 

And week four, next dose. But dose four is different, since it's more .

 

Your evening dose , dose numbers 4 and 5 , are going to be combined.

So that will be

0.53125 Xanax plus 0.03125 Xanax is 0.5625 total now for your evening dose.

 

0.5625 Xanax is equal to 11.25 mgr Valium.

 

So, for that dose it's different than the othe three:

You now take half of each too. Just like you did for the other doses.

 

This will come down to

0.28125 Xanax and replace the other half by Valium equivalent, which is 5.625 mgr .

 

 

Now...at this point you are halfway there. All your dose have been half crossed over and you should have enough build up in your system to cover all your inter dose by now.

 

Now the second stage of the plan is to cross over all the other halves of your doses.

 

So, what you're doing now...

 

Here is where you'll be at week 5 :

 

Dose 1 : you were taking 0.01562 Xanax and 0.3125 Valium

 

You now drop the Xanax for that dose and take 0.625 Valium ONLY.

You have now crossed over that dose completely. No more Xanax for dose 1.

 

A week later you do the some for dose 2 : all Valium 0.625

 

A week later you do the same for dose 3 : all Valium 0.625

 

The last week, week 8, you cross over dose 4

Instead of taking 0.28125 Xanax and 5.625 Valium.... You drop the Xanax and take the 11.25 mgr Valium only. No more Xanax.

 

You are now cross over properly and you can start tapering well.

 

Now, I'll go ahead and post this schedule on the thread so that someone can verify my math.

 

 

It seems quite hassle for how, but it's just for a few weeks. After that it's all Valium and it will be MUCh easier.

 

 

Do you get this so far?

 

The principle is :

You replace half on your dose of Xanax with the equivalent of Valium.

Then take that dose for a week.

 

Then do the same for you next dose,

And the next

And the next,

 

Now you've got all your doses half crossed over.

 

Then you replace the other halves, with week intervals , the sense way and drop the Xanax."

 

 

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[67...]

The math looks right and the plan looks sensible. Nice job Moodle.

 

Just a couple notes:

 

- At some point the Ambien should be replaced also.

 

- At some point after crossing, for simplicity and convenience, the doses of Valium can be combined into a single evening dose, since Valium is long-acting.

 

Kittybeanbag, I'm happy to help if you need support support following Moodle's crossover plan.

 

All the best,

 

Chessplayer

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