"Failed" attempt a diazepam withdrawal

Hi,

 

08/02/14

 

I joined today as im at my wits end about how to get off benzos.

 

I was prescribed Clonazepam 3 years for parasomnia (basically jumping out of bed). I was blissfully unaware of the dangers of this.

 

Towards the end of last year i started to get more anxiety and decided it must be down to the drugs.

 

I made the horrendous decision to go off 1 mg of clonazepam cold turkey. Spent five days in bed crying like a baby.

 

The doctor then pout me on 10 mgs of diazepam and i had to wean down 2 mgs every 10 days.

 

I did this successfully until the day before i took my last 2 mgs.

 

All the usual withdrawal symptoms kicked in but i was mostly plagued with anxiety and insomnia.

 

I battled this for 10 days but eventually gave in on Saturday and took 4 Mgs.

 

I took 4 mgs again last night to sleep. Feel a bit jittery today but I'm in and working.

 

I don't know whether i tapered too fast, have a fear of being without the drug or it was the lack of sleep making my anxious.

 

I now just feel as if i have nowhere to turn and will be stuck on 4 mgs for the rest of my days.

 

I have spent too much time reading horror stories on the internet which hasn't helped my anxiety either.

 

Ive just bought another house, my girlfriend doesnt understand and thinks i should just get off it. My work was really effecting in the 10 days i was off valium.

 

I have to go back and see my doctor and dont know what to do. He had talked about putting me on Citralopram but i heard that makes you anxious for 10 days before it works.

 

Last thing i need is more anxiety.

 

I have also read up on the Aston Manual which suggests a slower taper.

 

Im also not physically fit at the minute which isnt helping my mood.

 

I just need to know that this can be done without everything around me going to teh dogs.

 

I would also consider CBT if that was a way out but don't know if you can start that while still on Valium.

 

So that's my sorry tale.

 

Thanks

 

Sean

Modify message

 

Yes, you can do this successfully, answered more on your other post.

Yes, you can do it. Consider a daily microtaper. That has worked for many of us with minimal suffering. 

Yup way too fast.  Look into micro tapering.

Please don't think you've "failed", because you haven't. All that happened is that you tapered not knowing the right way to do it, but you're on BB now and we will help you.

 

As others have said, for you I think a daily liquid taper could be the best way forward. Some people call it a microtaper, but I prefer not to use that term because it doesn't really explain what it is. The Ashton Method is okay, but a lot of people find they simply can not follow her method because it's too fast. Also a lot of people on valium find they can not make larger cuts doing a "cut and hold" taper because even the smallest cut you can make (0.25mg) is still too much in one go.

 

With a daily taper all you have to do is work out over how many days you want to reduce 1mg and then divide that to find out how much to cut each day. Then to work out what that would be equivalent to in liquid (either 100ml or 10ml) you multiply that that amount. So to show how what looks.... these figures are just examples…..

 

To reduce 1mg over 30 days …..

 

1mg ÷ 30 days = 0.03mg (rounded)

 

To calculate that as a 100ml liquid …

 

0.03mg x 100 = 3ml

 

To calculate that as a 10ml liquid …

 

0.03mg x 10 = 0.3ml

 

The most popular ways to do a liquid taper involves using full fat milk (the fat helps to suspend/dissolve the valium), 2ml of vodka for every 1mg valium and then topped up with water, or you can also get a prescription for Liquid Valium from your doctor.

 

Take a look at these links to get an idea of how a liquid daily taper is done. If you have any questions you can ask on either of those threads.

 

Valium daily taper-Milk or Liquid Valium

 

Valium daily taper-Vodka

 

 

Folks,

 

Thanks a lot for the words of encouragement.

 

To be honest this whole thing has swamped me right now and i feel completely frazzled.

 

I almost feel that i cant face the thought of another taper right now. Suppose it just fear of withdrawal symptoms and not making it again.

 

I took 4 Mg's last night and slept 7 hrs. Woke up at 5 am a little agitated.

 

Whereas when i was on my fast taper the 4 Mg's kept me asleep all night.

 

This may be cause I'm constantly thinking about Valium and tapering etc.

 

I totally get the idea of micro tapering. Less of a shock to the system. Dropping off 0.03mg a day instead of just robbing the body of 1 mg over night.

 

I have to go and see my doctor tommorrow morning and will discuss this with him. I pray he will be sympathetic and let em try it.

 

I just want to get back into a comfortable place again where I'm not constantly worrying about withdrawal symptoms and insomnia.

 

As i said before i was fine or so i thought before i start looking into benzo withdrawal.

 

Is microtapering 1 mgs a month too fast of is it a case of suck it and see? Or are you meant to drop 10% every 2 weeks?

 

I notice that Diaz-pam has been tapering for nearly 1.5 years off 5 mgs of Valium?

 

I know the ultimate aim is to get off drugs but i really need to be able to function as a normal human being in the meantime for the sake of my partner and job and general mental health.

 

When you do a micro taper does it minimise the anxiety and insomnia?

 

Its the age old story if i could find a pill that kept me asleep at night that i could take every other night i would be happy enough.

 

I know the doc is going to look at me and see how miserable i am and tell me i need to get onto anti depressants.

 

Hard to know what the lesser of two evils is!! Mind you the anti depressants probably wouldn't help me sleep?

 

Its great that no one has posted any horror stories on this thread yet. I just cant cope with them!!

 

Any further advice before i go and see the doctor tommorrow would be much appreciated.

 

I know ill beat this. I just don't know how long its going to take!!

 

Cheers

 

Sean

P.S Is it OK to have a cup of tea during tapering?

 

I've read you should avoid caffeine and alcohol.

 

Cheers

 

S

Glad to hear your'e on your way.

 

The thing that scares me the most is living without taking something at night to sleep.

 

I really need to agree a plan with my doctor and then resign myself to the fact that this is reality and its who I am.

 

My confidence has just taken a real knock and i need to get that back.

 

I keep telling myself that I'm already on a much lower dose of Valium compared to the Clonazepam i was on.

 

This both comforts and scares the crap out of me.

 

And I'm also scared about how much i am obsessing about all this. 2 months ago i knew nothing about it.

 

i think when you go through a bad withdrawal it sort of scares you for the next time.

 

Im crapping myself about how i will be able to sleep once i take away the 4Mgs that is keeping me asleep at the minute.

 

Im just hoping i can touch base on here and that you guys will keep me in check to get me through this.

 

Thanks again for all the help and support so far.

 

G

P.S. I just want to blab out some questions to get them out of my head

 

(1) Tinnitus - Every since my withdrawal i have had pretty bad tinnitus. I suffer from it anyway but its usually worse with stress. Im guessing its bad because I'm obssessing right now?

 

(2) Is there anything i can take alongside the Valium to aid with sleep when i get closer to the end of my taper?

 

(3) Is there anything i can take for anxiety alongside the Valium as i get closer to the end?

 

(4) How do i stop myself thinking about this constantly?

 

(5) Has anyone here every done the micro tapering when on holidays? Did you just bring your syringes with you?

 

(6) I try and do some mindfullness every night. Is there anything else i should be looking in like CBT for example?

 

(7) Im scared my doctor is going to try and taper me too fast. Is 1 mg reduction a month too fast? Im hoping he will be understanding but would like an idea of how "fast" i should be looking to do this?

 

( I'm thinking about trying some physical exercise again. Do you find this generally helps?

 

(9) Does keeping a thought diary work and if so what do you put in it?

 

Right end of obsessing! Need to get some work done.

 

Cheers

 

Sean

 

Hey,

 

Welcome to the forums ! I guess I'll try answering your questions from my perspective ...

 

(1) Tinnitus - Every since my withdrawal i have had pretty bad tinnitus. I suffer from it anyway but its usually worse with stress. Im guessing its bad because I'm obssessing right now?

 

Tinnitus is very very common in benzo withdrawal and during tolerance. I have it right now! It will pass.

 

(2) Is there anything i can take alongside the Valium to aid with sleep when i get closer to the end of my taper?

 

Have you considered melatonin ? Found in health sections of most stores. Don't take sleeping pills from your doctor because that class of drugs is the cousin to benzo's and works on the exact same receptor site.

 

(3) Is there anything i can take for anxiety alongside the Valium as i get closer to the end?

 

There are some natural remedies out there in the health community that might be worthwhile such as ST johns wort, but as you find your sleep restoring your anxiety should naturally fade away.

 

(4) How do i stop myself thinking about this constantly?

 

Perhaps slow down your taper. From my understanding you were on 1mg of klonopin for 3 years and tried to stop in 10 days. This is pretty much a cold turkey, the drug hadn't even left your body yet before you stopped taking taking it. Vallium has a long half life and symptoms from a cut might not be felt for 1-2 weeks.

 

Edit : Go at the rate you find tolerable. Everyone on here has a different rate.

 

(5) Has anyone here every done the micro tapering when on holidays? Did you just bring your syringes with you?

 

I haven't

 

(6) I try and do some mindfullness every night. Is there anything else i should be looking in like CBT for example?

 

In my opinion, CBT is not effective for benzo withdrawal. From what I read, the body is phsyically changing to balance the gaba/glutamate in your CNS (central nervous system)

 

(7) Im scared my doctor is going to try and taper me too fast. Is 1 mg reduction a month too fast? Im hoping he will be understanding but would like an idea of how "fast" i should be looking to do this?

 

1mg per month in my opinion is fine. I was doing the equivalent of 4mg per month at some points but would slow down every so often. However, 4mg is stupidly fast and I suffered more than I needed. The drug is leaving the body only so fast and if the CNS isn't repairing at the same rate than it's needless suffering. So ya, 1mg might be fine.

 

( I'm thinking about trying some physical exercise again. Do you find this generally helps?

 

It helped me. For others they experience excercise intolerance where their symptoms increase 10x fold. Every so often this happened to me after a gym session. It's not fun. But for the most part, the gym session made me feel better. It depends.

 

(9) Does keeping a thought diary work and if so what do you put in it?

 

They have a progress log on this website you can log your days in.

 

During my entire withdrawal I did enough thinking for about 1000 lifetimes. The brain tends to wander to negative areas during the withdrawal process. Weird thoughts come in, different states of mind. It's very up and down and all around type scenario. Just taper slowly as your CNS needs time to repair itself.

 

Avoid alcohol like the plague imo. It works on the same receptor site and can put your healing back.

P.S. I just want to blab out some questions to get them out of my head

 

(1) Tinnitus - Every since my withdrawal i have had pretty bad tinnitus. I suffer from it anyway but its usually worse with stress. Im guessing its bad because I'm obssessing right now? 

 

Tinnitus is a common WD symptom.  Yes, it's troubling, but not really dangerous or disabling.  Focus on the fact that it will fade as you get closer to being off

 

(2) Is there anything i can take alongside the Valium to aid with sleep when i get closer to the end of my taper?

 

The most commonly used OTC remedies are diphenhydramine (Benadryl) and doxylamine.  Many folks find doxy more effective.  Its the active ingredient in some OTC sleep aids (Unisom Sleeptabs), and cold/cough liquids (Tylenol Night-time...)

 

Remeron (mirtazipine) is wonderful Rx sleep aid at low doses (7.5mg)  For most folks, it does not cause dependency, and is very easy to withdraw from.

(3) Is there anything i can take for anxiety alongside the Valium as i get closer to the end?

 

Other than a sleep aid, I would discourage you from adding any durgs during your taper.  You want your body's normal homeostasis to return.

 

(4) How do i stop myself thinking about this constantly?

 

(5) Has anyone here every done the micro tapering when on holidays? Did you just bring your syringes with you? 

 

 

I always scheduled my taper so I was at a tablet-only dose when I travelled.  But you can of course just carry a prepared supply of liquid.  You should only need one syringe.  Many people travel with liquid meds, both Rx and OTC.

 

(6) I try and do some mindfullness every night. Is there anything else i should be looking in like CBT for example?

 

(7) Im scared my doctor is going to try and taper me too fast. Is 1 mg reduction a month too fast? Im hoping he will be understanding but would like an idea of how "fast" i should be looking to do this?

 

Yes, Img/mo is very probably too fast.  At your dose level (4mg) I was cutting .45mg/mo (.015mg/day)

 

( I'm thinking about trying some physical exercise again. Do you find this generally helps?

 

Absolutely.  It will relieve tension and anxiety, and definitely improve sleep.  I worked out almost every day during my taper.

 

(9) Does keeping a thought diary work and if so what do you put in it?

 

Right end of obsessing! Need to get some work done.

 

Cheers

 

Sean

Some excellent advice there guys.

 

Interesting that one of you feels 1 mg a month is too much and the other thinks its fine.

 

I still at a loss as to what i want to tell my doctor i want to do.

 

He will probably try and taper me off 1 mg every 2 wks or something but I'm not going to stand for that.

 

Cant believe i have to start into tapering again.........have i got the strength!!!

 

G

Grillpan, one word, Yes you will have the Strength. 

Some excellent advice there guys.

 

Interesting that one of you feels 1 mg a month is too much and the other thinks its fine.

 

I still at a loss as to what i want to tell my doctor i want to do.

 

He will probably try and taper me off 1 mg every 2 wks or something but I'm not going to stand for that.

 

Cant believe i have to start into tapering again.........have i got the strength!!!

 

G

  Please note that Westcoast was on libruim, NOT valium.  Huge difference in potency.  4mg/mo from Librium would probably be fine.

Gents,

 

I'm not on here to question anyone!!

 

Just want someone to give me a definite taper schedule that i can go to my docs tommorrow with.

 

Ill know he will disagree but at least if i have a plan i can discuss it with him.

 

Then ill look into the micro taper.

 

Is it much of a nusaince to do it every night or do you just look at it like brushing your teeth? I mean how long does it take a tablet to dissolve in water for example?

 

Are most of you guys finished your taper or still going through it?

 

Do you find it hard to maintain day in day out or is the hatred of the drug enough to spur you on?

 

Apologies for all the annoying questions but im just trying to get my ducks in a row.

 

Thanks a million again.

 

S

P.S. Not just gents. Ladies as well!

I didn't titrate, but for those queries you can ask in this sub section for info ...

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?board=62.0

 

There's video's etc regarding this method.

Gents,

 

I'm not on here to question anyone!!

 

Just want someone to give me a definite taper schedule that i can go to my docs tommorrow with.

 

Ill know he will disagree but at least if i have a plan i can discuss it with him.

 

Then ill look into the micro taper.

 

Is it much of a nusaince to do it every night or do you just look at it like brushing your teeth? I mean how long does it take a tablet to dissolve in water for example?

 

Are most of you guys finished your taper or still going through it?

 

Do you find it hard to maintain day in day out or is the hatred of the drug enough to spur you on?

 

Apologies for all the annoying questions but im just trying to get my ducks in a row.

 

Thanks a million again.

 

S

  You don't have to do it every  night.  If you do vodka/water, or PG/water, you can easily make enough solution for 10-14 days.  It's stable and non-perishable.  Even if you use milk, you should be able to make a 1 week solution.

 

Specific schedule?  As I said above, at your current dose (4mg) I would start at .015/day cuts.  You could try .02, that's 15% a month, I would start lower, and increase if all goes well.

Ah right that's even easier.

 

Do you make them as individual 100 ml jars?

 

I pray my doctor bystanders into this approach and let's me do it.

 

Think I would go the vodka water route as easier to make and store.

 

I'll update tomorrow on his thoughts.

 

Gonna ask him about doxy for sleep problems as well if and when they start happening.

 

I take it you guys still get withdrawal but not like the stir crazy stuff I have been through?

 

I went for a 15 mins run tonight. Definitely helps the mood.

 

G

I typically mixed 200ml/20mg at a time.  I used Rx liquid, and just measure out 20ml of liquid V into clean, sealable glass jar (like a pickle/olive/salad dressing, etc jar, and added 180ml water.  I stored it on the countertop under a Solo cup.

 

If you want to make a 100ml of homebrew, just plop your tablet in a similar jar, add the vodka, then add the wateir to whatever concentration/ratio you wish to use.

 

It's really pretty simple.  I mixed a batch about every 2 weeks, it took me about 5 minutes. then I just pulled out the appropriate dose amount when I took my PM dose each day.

 

To be honest this whole thing has swamped me right now and i feel completely frazzled.

 

I almost feel that i cant face the thought of another taper right now. Suppose it just fear of withdrawal symptoms and not making it again.

 

It’s quite normal to feel really overwhelmed when you first come here, because so much information comes at you, and most of it is a totally foreign concept to anything you’ve experienced before – like how to do a daily taper. Just keep in mind that a pretty large proportion of people on BB are doing daily tapers these days, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone not get the hang of it very quickly. If it was a difficult thing to do there would be a lot of people struggling to do it, but nearly everyone always comments on how easy it is to do once they get the hang of it – and that usually only takes a couple of days.

 

Is microtapering 1 mgs a month too fast of is it a case of suck it and see? Or are you meant to drop 10% every 2 weeks?

 

I think it could be a bit too fast, but everyone has to taper according to their symptoms. That would mean dropping roughly 0.03mg per day. I’d suggest starting out with maybe between 0.015mg to 0.02 per day. It’s always best to never start out overly ambitious. Start lower than you need to and work your way up. That is the safest way to do it.

 

I notice that Diaz-pam has been tapering for nearly 1.5 years off 5 mgs of Valium?

 

I actually finished my taper more than 18 months ago and it took me a total of 22 months. The way you need to look at it isn’t how long did the daily taper take, but how much longer would a cut and hold taper have been.

 

I couldn’t even make the smallest tablet cut of 0.25mg from 5mg, so how on earth would I have been able to cut that small amount from an even lower dose? The fact is that I probably would have been suffering a hell of a lot during my taper and the holds between the cuts I was making would have had to have gotten longer and longer. Had I been doing a cut and hold taper I might still be tapering even now – and feeling like hell the whole time. However, my daily taper was pretty manageable the whole time. There will always be ups and downs, but the downs on a daily taper are never as bad as the downs on a cut and hold taper – at least for me anyway.

 

I know the ultimate aim is to get off drugs but i really need to be able to function as a normal human being in the meantime for the sake of my partner and job and general mental health.

 

When you do a micro taper does it minimise the anxiety and insomnia?

 

IMO a daily taper is honestly the best way of being able to function on a daily basis  and minimising your symptoms – and it’s a myth that a daily taper is slower than a cut and hold taper. It can actually be faster.

 

Its the age old story if i could find a pill that kept me asleep at night that i could take every other night i would be happy enough.

 

I know the doc is going to look at me and see how miserable i am and tell me i need to get onto anti depressants.

 

Hard to know what the lesser of two evils is!! Mind you the anti depressants probably wouldn't help me sleep?

 

An antidepressant isn’t always a bad thing, but it depends on what you get. There are a couple of things that a lot of BBs use to help with sleep while they are tapering. There is an over the counter antihistamine called doxylamine (brand names Unisom, Dozile, Restavit, Sleep Aid). This is very good for sleep, and usually at much lower doses than is recommended on the pack.

 

Also the older ADs (like amitriptyline) are very sedating at low doses. I used one called Endep during my taper. If I was having a lot of problems with insomnia I would take doxylamine for a 4-5 nights and then switch to an Endep for 4-5 nights and then switch back again. That way I never become tolerant or dependent on either.

 

P.S Is it OK to have a cup of tea during tapering?

 

It’s always dependent on the individual. Some people find they can’t tolerate caffeine, sugar etc at all, while others have no problem. I always had about 2 cups of coffee per day, but I just wouldn’t have it late in the afternoon in case it affected my sleep.

 

Some excellent advice there guys.

 

Interesting that one of you feels 1 mg a month is too much and the other thinks its fine.

 

I still at a loss as to what i want to tell my doctor i want to do.

 

He will probably try and taper me off 1 mg every 2 wks or something but I'm not going to stand for that.

 

Cant believe i have to start into tapering again.........have i got the strength!!!

 

G

 

I think it's best to listen to people who have actually tapered the amount you are tapering. I agree with builder (and posted it in my previous post) that on your dose 1mg per month is too fast. Aim for around 0.015mg or definitely no more than 0.02mg. 0.015mg per day is also what I was cutting at that dose.

 

Is it much of a nusaince to do it every night or do you just look at it like brushing your teeth?

 

Just like brushing your teeth. It honestly only takes a couple of minutes each day once you get into your routine.

 

I mean how long does it take a tablet to dissolve in water for example?

 

Firstly, don’t use just plain water to dissolve your tablet. It’s almost non-soluble in water. You do need to use other things like full fat milk, vodka or the prescription Liquid Valium (which you don’t use a tablet with).

 

How quickly the tablet breaks down depends on your tablets, but mine used to break down straight away. If you are going to use tablets to make a solution it is important to note that the tablets won’t disappear totally. There will be a residue left, but that will only be the fillers and they won’t dissolve. The valium however dissolves more or less as soon as the tablet breaks down. 

 

Are most of you guys finished your taper or still going through it?

 

Finished for 18 months and doing just fine.

 

Do you find it hard to maintain day in day out or is the hatred of the drug enough to spur you on?

 

Once you start a daily taper, and the symptoms become more tolerable/manageable, you honestly will probably lose a lot of your anger and anxiety. You will adopt an “oh well – whatever” kind of attitude as your daily taper just becomes part of your daily routine – much like brushing your teeth, as you said above.

 

Just have a look at these two links and most of your questions will be answered there.

 

Valium daily taper-Milk or Liquid Valium

 

Valium daily taper-Vodka

 

I can relate

I prob had withdrawal last year but didn't know it.

Then you can see my sig

One accidental cold turkey then fast taper over 5 wks and held at .5 ( mistake) for 3 wks thinking I could tough it out. Not. Made things worse

Back in 5 mg of Valium and the plan w new doctor is get liquid Valium 5ml- 5mg and taper over 500 days.

Also dose one mg in the am to help with w/d sxs ( burning chest, burning body) during the day

I also got on remeron.

I bet that would help you a ton w sleep. Even small dose like 7.5 mg.

if it weren't for that I would prob have to be on at least 10 or 20 mg of Valium bc my body went into several cold turkeys and shocks. It's called mirtazapine in England if you are from the uk.

The obsession is bad. I wasn't thinking anything about this until I crash landed at the end. Now I am super scared. Not helpful.

Committing to only looking at BB once per wk..retraining my limbic system to say I can do this, I got this, it has been done before I am not special here... It will be hard but dooable

Micro taper seems the way to go.

Focus on positive, limbic neural retraining and can do attitude.

My family was pressuring me to just get off but now they understand that leads to greater difficulty

I have held my dose per doctors request for 45 days now. About to start micro taper Monday.

I need to work and function, habe my own business and two small kids. We will see. My life might have to change and I am surrendered to it all. This transformation will come in whatever form it comes in, I am trying to trust in a higher power and going to Buddhist recovery mtgs even though I can't related to addiction I am an accidental addict.

Right,

 

I went to my doctor this morning and showed him the micro taper method.

 

He said that he didnt really see the point in it as it was just over complicating withdrawal.

 

He said i am not physically addicted to Valium but mentally addicted. My heart sank.

 

BUT i talked him through it and he agreed that if it was something i want to do he will fully support me for however long it takes.

 

He will give me as many 2 mgs tablets that i need to continue you down this road.

 

We cant get doxylamamine in the UK and it he didnt want to prescribe me the old type anti depressants.

 

I asked him for some melatonin and he gave it me and agreed it could do no harm.

 

So to be fair to my doctor he has really stood up and helped me out here.

 

He wanted me to taper off 1 mg a month until i was done.

 

I said i would basically be doing that anyway but just using a different approach.

 

I have been referred to a top sleep consultant again about my parasomnia so will be good to get their take on it.

 

I also have found a mindfullness teacher who i will investigate a bit further as i have been doing mindfullness anyway.

 

I have to say I'm releived and pensive at the same time.

 

But i bought my syringes and will buy some baby food on the way home and begin the journey tonight.

 

Think ill try 0.02mgs a night to start off with and see how i go. I managing ok on 4 mgs and any anxiety i have is purely around being on Vailum!

 

I fully take the last point about only checking in here once a week.

 

Ill keep a proper log and see how i go.

 

Anything else i need to know before i commence?

 

And thanks so much once again. You have been brilliant.

 

Cheers

 

Sean