Why Symptoms Return - How Healing Progresses

I have posted this on elsewhere the forum but am also posting it here too as many people can't understand why symptoms appear to be gone then return and see it as healing isn't happening but that's not true, its actually the opposite, it is happening, the symptoms return as it now needs to be  healed on another level.  People need to know why and how to keep this insight when they think their not healing and fall into fear and despair about their healing ever actually taking place. When you feel bad time after time your actually getting better not sicker, hard to believe but its true

 

                          Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

''In truth, these people did heal that issue but only part of that issue, and it is only the unhealed part which has returned. Thus, it is normal and healthy for the remaining unhealed part to later reappear, as life events provide us with chances to heal each Block at deeper and deeper levels. Further, healing never repeats at the same level but rather deepens with each repetition. Notice this is the exact opposite of how wounding changes over time, as wounding increases in scope.''

 

http://theemergencesite.com/Images/HealingSpirals.jpg  ( Continued)....... http://theemergencesite.com/Tech/TechIssues-Healing-Spirals.htm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

thanks for posting this Nova!

Currently I'm in a kind of window land. Strangely I don't fear when it may be over. It's been at least six months that I felt I would never be happy again. While my challenging circumstances haven't changed, my reaction to them is either positive or in a decent holding pattern. It's only been a week since I discovered this site, started using supplements again and felt like I could succeed in tapering. I stayed late at studio with other people around, which I couldn't do before. I've been relatively calm. The aggravation level has lessened considerably.

 

The last lengthy suicidal bout was when I started taking benzos in 2007. Before that though 5 years an extreme traumatic violent event and around the time of 9/11, I was taking a handful of meds. I remember waking each morning, realizing the heavy depression was still on me and thinking 'oh no, not again.' This was 12 years after withdrawal from heroin. I was getting therapy at this time and for some reason I can't remember went to the health food/food co-op and found the Natural Healing bible looked up lethargy, and bought every supplement they recommended. Within two weeks I woke up and the deep depression was gone. I cold turkeyed successful with little symptoms. This was before benzos. After finding this site I remembered how well this worked and tried it again.

 

Same results only immediately. I guess finding people who know exactly what I'm talking about was a major relief. Tired of people putting me down. Indifference to the suffering, the mockery. It does not bother me now. I feel,I don't need them, so to speak. Support or and ear was what I needed and now I have it. I have noninvasive therapeutic support too. My vitality is slowly returning.

 

Should I hit the hard spots that this post mentions, I will be able to see that ever decreasing spiral and not resort to despair. Perhaps this is my last round of emotional destitution after more than a decade of it. My sense of freedom wavers slightly but has not disappeared into the mists of hopelessness. Knowing the symptoms are due to the benzos helps me differentiate. Whatever began this journey of use and abuse is linked to physical reactions. It takes the demon out of my thinking. I'm not sure I'm explaining this properly but coming into the light is what I have now which I hadn't had in too long a time.

Book marked this page!! 

 

As painful as it is for me to go through withdrawal, physically, mentally and emotionally...I will keep on fighting till the end! God bless everyone on this board!!!!!!

dog tag,

 

opiates have always been a huge part of my story as well we the benzo's. although i never did heroin, i was always on pretty large dose's of vicodin, norco and this cough syrup called Hydromet which was a mixture of hycodan and homatrapine. that addiction to the cough syrup was very scary as i had many nights where i overdosed and thought my breathing would stop. i just got off suboxone after tapering for the last 3 years. i didn't want to do another cold turkey like i did with the benzos.

 

did you ever go on the suboxone or subutex?

Here is Irony, when I got pulled of 30 2mg daily Ativan GT =600mg Valium  I go put on Temgesic sublingual which I now know is  Buprenorphine, for Migraines  from hell which I now also know is from the withdrawal which never gave me a window for a year. The dick head Doctor told me to use 1 every time I had pain which was 24/7 so I used 16 upwards a day for two or three weeks. I also began a couple of days into the first week waking up at 4am in a panic attack from hell, more WD  :tickedoff:

 

As far as I'm concerned and being put on many more different opiates because of benzo WD pain from CT, tolerance WD, kindling on top from being put on and off benzos and high doses of strong opiates for many year's along with a few other drugs.  I was even given Heroin  (Diamorphine)  IV in Hospital. Opiates are also a big problem when it comes to benzos and WD after the many year's of hell I've been through.

 

I also believe I have protracted WD as well, I've been suffering for more than 12 year's now, and every symptoms I had all these year's has gone a lot worse since tapering, plus bought a big gang of other fkrs as well. But this would also be akin if you view it logically with the spiral of healing as well, worsening of present symptoms and others returning or arising .

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

I've been suffering for more than 12 year's now, and every symptoms I had all these year's has gone a lot worse since tapering, plus bought a big gang of other fkrs as well. But this would also be akin if you view it logically with the spiral of healing as well, worsening of present symptoms and others returning or arising .

 

 

i have been suffering from the benzo's (and opiates but mostly benzo's) for over 12 years too. i can't believe all the new symptoms that have just sprung up for me. i hope it's all a healing. ??

 

i wish i had tapered so badly. at least you are tapering.

 

I've been suffering for more than 12 year's now, and every symptoms I had all these year's has gone a lot worse since tapering, plus bought a big gang of other fkrs as well. But this would also be akin if you view it logically with the spiral of healing as well, worsening of present symptoms and others returning or arising .

 

 

i have been suffering from the benzo's (and opiates but mostly benzo's) for over 12 years too. i can't believe all the new symptoms that have just sprung up for me. i hope it's all a healing. ??

 

i wish i had tapered so badly. at least you are tapering.

 

 

Yes, the Opiates shafted us exsactly the same as benzos, they cause GABBA down regulation as well

 

 

Any GABA RECEPTOR AGONIST (whether PHARMACEUTICAL or NUTRACEUTICAL) will induce down regulation of the GABA receptors when administered for prolonged periods (i.e. for the medium to long-term). Hence, administration of GABA RECEPTOR AGONISTS for prolonged periods is ill advised.

 

This is exactly the same reason why administration of OPIOID RECEPTOR AGONISTS (e.g. Morphine, Codeine, Oxycodone etc.) for prolonged periods is NOT recommended.

 

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/54028-treating-anxiety-safely-effectively/

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

Yes, the Opiates shafted us exsactly the same as benzos, they cause GABBA down regulation as well

 

 

really? i didn't know that... i thought the opiates only acted on the opiate receptor's/?

Prettydaisys, read Candace Pert's "Molecules of Emotion".  She discovered the opiate receptor and then went on to discover many other receptors. The most important thing she discovered, which earned her the moniker "mother of holistic medicine", was that all the different systems (which medicine thought were seperate) like neurological, glandular, immune cells, digestive, respiratory etc, all had receptors for each other's chemical transmitters on their cell surfaces. In other words, they talk to each other constantly! So when you take a benzo it effects gaba receptors on neurons, glands, immune tissue, digestive system cells, EVERYTHING! No wonder we are so f%&*ed in withdrawal.

 

But do you think doctors ever educate themselves or keep up with the evidence based research going on, hell no, they are completely dogma based and just suck down the swill that they are fed by big pharma.

 

Nova, more power to ya! Keep fighting the good fight, your healing info is right on, exactly what I have experienced. Love to you all

I sure will bookmark this page. I'm glad I never took opiates. Ugh.

 

Love to you all and good healing.

Bets

Prettydaisys, read Candace Pert's "Molecules of Emotion".  She discovered the opiate receptor and then went on to discover many other receptors. The most important thing she discovered, which earned her the moniker "mother of holistic medicine", was that all the different systems (which medicine thought were seperate) like neurological, glandular, immune cells, digestive, respiratory etc, all had receptors for each other's chemical transmitters on their cell surfaces. In other words, they talk to each other constantly! So when you take a benzo it effects gaba receptors on neurons, glands, immune tissue, digestive system cells, EVERYTHING! No wonder we are so f%&*ed in withdrawal.

 

But do you think doctors ever educate themselves or keep up with the evidence based research going on, hell no, they are completely dogma based and just suck down the swill that they are fed by big pharma.

 

Nova, more power to ya! Keep fighting the good fight, your healing info is right on, exactly what I have experienced. Love to you all

 

 

I have Candace Pert's "Molecules of Emotion" and have had that on my reading list for years. i will up it in my pile and read it sooner rather than later. thank you for the reminder.

Prettydaiseys I did not use suboxone & such.

 

I did use considerable amounts of Tussionex cough syrup, which the pharmacists called liquid gold. It has huge amounts of hydrocondone. Forgot about that stuff.

 

Sometimes I find it is about healthy active body & positive mind in swing with all of this. If You'd asked me a month ago I would have said there's no way out. It's just like that so we're like old time sailors -- when the sea is rough we have to hold fast until it is calm again.

 

I do a lot of research, have tried methods that turned out to be quakery but I'm on a good path for now. Hope you are too.

Prettydaiseys I did not use suboxone & such.

 

I did use considerable amounts of Tussionex cough syrup, which the pharmacists called liquid gold. It has huge amounts of hydrocondone. Forgot about that stuff.

 

Sometimes I find it is about healthy active body & positive mind in swing with all of this. If You'd asked me a month ago I would have said there's no way out. It's just like that so we're like old time sailors -- when the sea is rough we have to hold fast until it is calm again.

 

I do a lot of research, have tried methods that turned out to be quakery but I'm on a good path for now. Hope you are too.

 

 

dog tag,

 

yeah, that hydromet hydrocodone was also considered a "liquid gold" and i am just glad that i am not addicted to it

any longer.

 

right now i'm having a bad moment of "i am never going to heal and this is permanent".

I know that spot well but eventually it will change. Just hold on as best you can. Even though it's a distinct body thing, it's also a mind thing. We all must find ways to get our minds right to get though the body stuff.

 

We're rooting for you. Sometimes the group is the power to help you survive. The stories are very similar even when different. It's a war on the body and mind we fight in our particular benzo fashion.

 

Just know that it does seem eternal and you will feel desperate but you can get through it because we have all felt desperate and in the jaws of eternal suffering. And then it changes and we move on.

I know that spot well but eventually it will change. Just hold on as best you can. Even though it's a distinct body thing, it's also a mind thing. We all must find ways to get our minds right to get though the body stuff.

 

We're rooting for you. Sometimes the group is the power to help you survive. The stories are very similar even when different. It's a war on the body and mind we fight in our particular benzo fashion.

 

Just know that it does seem eternal and you will feel desperate but you can get through it because we have all felt desperate and in the jaws of eternal suffering. And then it changes and we move on.

 

 

thank you for your support dog tag!

 

i fought really extra hard today all day and now feeling just a little more uplifted. boy this is one hell of a ride. i am ready to get off it and relax for awhile.

Glad you're feeling better PD. It comes and goes from what I hear of the once you're off crew. But then we measure against progress overtime. Sometimes it's a minut to minute thing, sometimes day to day, or week to week. My big grand window shut a bit but the numbness in fingers is gone, the crazy shakes leg thing gone. I even had a few good dreams. I live my life as stress free as I can and in the east coast urban environment that's a major challenge.

 

We cherish the little bits of better. It's a long way from where I started or stopped I should say in 1988. Sometimes I wonder why so long? But there were many horrors along the way and many triumphant accomplishments in the world. They just never stayed or my attention span wavered and I needed some new intellectual or geographic adventure. I have to remember that since in part I'm in a place I don't want to be. I'm happier than ever before with myself & what I'm doing but getting off this stuff and getting right requires a sacrifice. So I complain & get mad but keep on because I know every incremental step of getting out if benzo addiction is an important triumph.

 

Takes a few moments or hours to get there, but I do get there. And thus website has been crucial, along with other resources of change and stability.

 

Yes, the Opiates shafted us exsactly the same as benzos, they cause GABBA down regulation as well

Wait, how do opiates downregulate gaba? Do you have any sources to back this up? I have read opiates might actually inhibit gaba, thus creating a dopamine release, since gaba inhibits dopamine, but that is just a theory, although it certainly wouldn't cause downregulation, if anything it would cause upregulation.

Taken from Anything for a quiet life? by C Heather Ashton DM, FRCP

"People become tolerant to benzodiazepines probably because their nerve cells respond by producing fewer receptors for GABA/benzodiazepines. This phenomenon, known as "down regulation", means that the number of "high affinity" GABA receptors decreases in response to the enhancement of GABA caused by the drug. Such homeostatic responses, which tend to reinstate the status quo despite the continued presence of drug, happen with many of the drugs that people take regularly, including alcohol, opiates and even beta blockers, which are widely prescribed for heart disease. The adaptation of behaviour to overcome the actions of the drugs probably also contributes to tolerance.

Whatever the mechanism, the development of tolerance sets the scene for withdrawal effects. At this stage, the removal of benzodiazepines, or even a reduction in dosage, exposes the altered state of the brain, with fewer "higher affinity" receptors for GABA to act upon."

 

"The body responds to the continued presence of the drug with a series of adjustments that tend to overcome the drug effects. In the case of benzodiazepines, compensatory changes occur in the GABA and benzodiazepine receptors which become less responsive, so that the inhibitory actions of GABA and benzodiazepines are decreased."

 

http://www.benzosupport.org/gaba.htm

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

Another group of neurons regulates the neurons of the VTA by producing the neurotransmitter gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA).  When these regulatory neurons are active, they inhibit dopamine neurons causing a reduced release of dopamine.  These GABA receptors contain opiate receptors.  When opiates bind to these receptors, they prevent the GABA neurons send fewer inhibitory signals to the dopamine neurons. The dopamine neurons then are free to release more dopamine from their axon terminals in the nucleus accumbens.  In addition, the neurons of the nucleus accumbens that are across from the synapse from the axon terminals of the dopamine-releasing neurons also contain opiate receptors.  As a result opiates can act directly on the nucleus accumbens and can thus produce reward.

 

http://www.udel.edu/chem/C465/senior/fall00/DrugAddiction/Opiates.html

 

Opiate state controls bi-directional reward signaling via GABAA receptors in the ventral tegmental area http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v7/n2/full/nn1182.html

 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

These GABA receptors contain opiate receptors.  When opiates bind to these receptors, they prevent the GABA neurons send fewer inhibitory signals to the dopamine neurons.

This is what I said. This would not downregulate gaba. I did large amounts of heroin most of my life and never had a single symptom even close to those of GABA withdrawal in any time I stopped using. Opiates have no effect on the GABAA receptor. Plenty of people on here are healing or have healed just fine while using opiates. I'm not arguing with you, it's just not correct.

These GABA receptors contain opiate receptors.  When opiates bind to these receptors, they prevent the GABA neurons send fewer inhibitory signals to the dopamine neurons.

This is what I said. This would not downregulate gaba. I did large amounts of heroin most of my life and never had a single symptom even close to those of GABA withdrawal in any time I stopped using. Opiates have no effect on the GABAA receptor. Plenty of people on here are healing or have healed just fine while using opiates. I'm not arguing with you, it's just not correct.

 

i didn't think that was correct either.

Blessed, glad to read you have the tightening in upper torso. I'm down to .625 Xanax and am experiencing that. Worried about heart. It seems I shouldn't sleep with chest concave as it increases the squeezed heart feeling. At times it disappears, especially if away from high street living situation. Window gone and I'm feeling creepy but keeping on. Won't completely detox from opioids until I'm off Xanax.

 

Looking to be free by early summer. I do love have tiny bits of pills with me instead of the bottle. I don't freak if I forget my dose.

 

That I truly like. Again this board is helpful. My brain is too fogged to wrap around the gaba bit. I'll trust the process by reading that other people have similar symptoms so I don't have to worry too much.

Bump