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Overwhelmed, Microtaper Using Compounded Liquid Valium


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Current psydoc agreed to switch over to liquid valium since the cut & hold method is too difficult for me. RX is for compounded liquid Valium using Ora Plus as the suspension.

 

Psydoc wrote the RX for 5mg/10ml, taking .50 ml daily along with 15 mgs in tablet form. This should equal 15.25 mgs a day.  So does 5mg/10ml convert to  1 mg = 2 ml and .25 mg = .50 ml?

 

I want to be comfortable handling the liquid before starting the microtaper because I'm easily stressed & confused. (Haha, what a surprise.)

 

My brain is so messed up that I can't figure out how to draw up the liquid valium into the syringe from a 300 ml bottle with a regular cap! :idiot: I'm gonna spill the stuff all over the place!

 

Any comments/suggestions are greatly appreciated

Left Behind

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Current psydoc agreed to switch over to liquid valium since the cut & hold method is too difficult for me. RX is for compounded liquid Valium using Ora Plus as the suspension.

 

Psydoc wrote the RX for 5mg/10ml, taking .50 ml daily along with 15 mgs in tablet form. This should equal 15.25 mgs a day.  So does 1) 5mg/10ml convert to  1 mg = 2 ml and 2) .25 mg = .50 ml? 

 

Yes, and yes.

 

I want to be comfortable handling the liquid before starting the microtaper because I'm easily stressed & confused. (Haha, what a surprise.)

 

My brain is so messed up that I can't figure out how to draw up the liquid valium into the syringe from a 300 ml bottle with a regular cap! :idiot: I'm gonna spill the stuff all over the place! 

 

Pour it out into another container that's easier to handle.  I used re-purposed food jars (salad dressing, pickles, olives, etc) with gasketed screw top lids.

 

Any comments/suggestions are greatly appreciated

Left Behind

 

Curious why your doc won't just give you a scrip for 1mg=1ml  Rx liquid V?

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Me too. ??? It would be so much easier and straight forward.

 

However, your question about spilling the whole bottle is one that resonates with me, because I have always been a very klutzy person, so the thought of playing around with a full bottle of LV, without spilling it all over the floor, really worried me too.  :oops:

 

So what I used to do was pour maybe 5-10mls into a small glass bottle. This had 2 advantages. If I dropped it I would only lose a small amount, but also the bottle had a much wider top so there was no problem getting the syringe into it.

 

So does 5mg/10ml convert to  1 mg = 2 ml and .25 mg = .50 ml?

 

Yes. However, you might find handling and measuring easier if you dilute the concentrated LV with water. A lot of people use either 1ml LV with 10ml water, or 1ml Lv with 100ml water. This will give you are larger volume of liquid to play with and make measuring a whole lot easier.

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Thanks for the advice on how to get LV out of the bottle, and confirming math. :thumbsup:  I obsess about the silliest little details.

 

Have you heard of or seen a "liquid adapter"? Found some on Amazon. They "pop" into the neck of liquid medication bottles so you can draw up the medication directly from the bottle using an oral syringe. Not sure if anyone has used something like this.

 

Agree with you about the ratio. Will ask dr for 1mg/1ml LV when I see him. He planned to cross over to all LV for rest of taper. I'm not ready to do that yet.

 

We're currently using LV to make smaller cuts since my body/brain is so sensitive to reductions. I want to transition to microtaper, but haven't discussed with dr yet.

 

When microtapering, what's the difference between 1ml  LV to 9ml water ratio and 1ml  LV to 99ml water ratio? Can I dilute the Ora Plus with that much liquid? Once I decide to microtaper, will I be able to access tapering charts so I don't mess anything up?

 

I'm so sorry for all the questions. The process seems so intimidating.

 

Thanks!

Left Behind

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Thanks for the advice on how to get LV out of the bottle, and confirming math. :thumbsup:  I obsess about the silliest little details.

 

Have you heard of or seen a "liquid adapter"? Found some on Amazon. They "pop" into the neck of liquid medication bottles so you can draw up the medication directly from the bottle using an oral syringe. Not sure if anyone has used something like this.

 

Agree with you about the ratio. Will ask dr for 1mg/1ml LV when I see him. He planned to cross over to all LV for rest of taper. I'm not ready to do that yet.

 

We're currently using LV to make smaller cuts since my body/brain is so sensitive to reductions. I want to transition to microtaper, but haven't discussed with dr yet.

 

When microtapering, what's the difference between 1ml  LV to 9ml water ratio and 1ml  LV to 99ml water ratio? Can I dilute the Ora Plus with that much liquid? Once I decide to microtaper, will I be able to access tapering charts so I don't mess anything up?

 

I'm so sorry for all the questions. The process seems so intimidating.

 

Thanks!

Left Behind

  It isn't just about the ratio, either.  The Rx 1:1 liquid is a true solution, and can be extensively diluted with water (or other liquids).

 

The OraPlus liquid is just a suspension, and can only be further diluted by 50%.

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I'm confused. Sorry, stressing too much cause sodium levels are low again.

 

Don't understand the RX 1:1 ratio thing.

 

Why can oral plus only be diluted by 50%?

 

I asked for the compounded liquid Valium because I don't want it suspended in alcohol. Is there a better suspension than oral plus that could be diluted with no restrictions?

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Builder will be along soon to give you the "technical" answer, but I assume it's because with ora it's only suspended, as opposed to being totally dissolved in the pharma grade product.

 

what's the difference between 1ml  LV to 9ml water ratio and 1ml  LV to 99ml water ratio?

 

No real difference, except for the amount of liquid you prefer to use to help you measure your dose. A lot of people are fine with using only 10ml total, but I always preferred the 100ml because I felt is made a less concentrated mixture which meant there was less pressure to get the measuring 100% accurate - more "wiggle room" as I like to say..lol... It just comes down to what you prefer.

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Thanks Diaz-Pam  :smitten:

 

I'm more confused today than usual (for me that is!).  This stuff has destroyed my life like it has so many others.

 

I'd be completely alone if not for Benzo Buddies.

 

THANK YOU FOR ALL OF YOUR HELP

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That's the beauty of BB. You never have to feel totally alone, or confused, because there will always be someone around to help you out... :)
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OraPlus is a suspension agent, NOT a solvent.  It doesn't dissolve the med, it only holds it suspended in the liquid.  It is a thick syrupy liquid.  And the 50% dilution ratio is the part of the manufacturers instructions for use.  I experimented wit OraPlus before I got a scrip for

Rx liquid.  I would consider Rx liquid to be a much superior product.

 

The only difference between 9:1 an 99:1 is the ratio of liquid to med.  Many folks find 99:1 easier to calculate and measure.  I always did 9:1 and had no problems.  Whatever you feel more comfortable.

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Thanks for the reply. I got too stressed over this subject and had to unplug for a bit. Still haven't used the Ora Plus suspension.

 

Other than RX liquid do you know of another solution/suspension that would work better than Ora Plus? I want to avoid the RX liquid because of the alcohol content.

 

I'm clueless how to use the Ora Plus suspension (5mg/10ml) for microtapering since it can only be diluted by 50%.... is it even possible?

 

Thanks for all the advice.

Cassie

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Thanks for the reply. I got too stressed over this subject and had to unplug for a bit. Still haven't used the Ora Plus suspension.

 

Other than RX liquid do you know of another solution/suspension that would work better than Ora Plus? I want to avoid the RX liquid because of the alcohol content.

I'm clueless how to use the Ora Plus suspension (5mg/10ml) for microtapering since it can only be diluted by 50%.... is it even possible?

 

Thanks for all the advice.

Cassie

  Roxane Diazepam Oral Solution (the most commonly used Rx liquid V) is not an alcohol solution.  Its a glycol solvent.
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Hi Builder,

 

Is there any way I could use the Ora Plus suspension I have to microtaper? I may not tolerate RX liquid Valium. If I diluted my original ratio of 5mg/10ml (1mg = 2ml)  by 50% what would the new ratio be? Could I work with that?

 

Sorry for all the questions. I'm sick from the taper (hitting a wall) and dealing with other medical issues at the same time.

 

Thanks for any advice.

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Hi Builder,

 

Is there any way I could use the Ora Plus suspension I have to microtaper? I may not tolerate RX liquid Valium. If I diluted my original ratio of 5mg/10ml (1mg = 2ml)  by 50% what would the new ratio be? Could I work with that?

 

Sorry for all the questions. I'm sick from the taper (hitting a wall) and dealing with other medical issues at the same time.

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

 

...and you may not tolerate OraPlus, either.  Its not a very pleasant tasting or "feeling" product.  They make an additional product called OraSweet which can be mixed with the OraPlus to improve the taste. 

 

If you dilute your 5mg=10ml suspension 50%, you will have 5mg=15ml, or 1mg=3ml.  Not really very suitable for microtaper.  But OraPlus and OraSweet are readily available and are probably at your local pharmacy.  Or it is available on Amazon.  You can make your own suspension to any concentration you want.

 

But whether its from a compoundinig pharmacy, or homebrew, it  is still a suspension, not a solution.  There is no assurance the med will be evenly distributed. 

 

I tried OraPlus before I found my doc was willing to write scrips for pharma liquid.  I definitely did not like the OraPlus.  I'm not sure what your concerns are about pharma liquid, but it definitely is the easiest and most trouble-free liquid alternative.

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Thanks Builder.

 

I agree, trying to microtaper using the Ora Plus suspension would be a nightmare.

 

I was concerned about the alcohol in the RX LV, didn't know there was an alcohol free version

 

You mentioned Ora Plus didn't agree with you, but you tolerated the RX LV well. My only concern with RX LV is perhaps a problem with the additives.

 

Do most people on BB tolerate the alcohol free RX LV?  Do they updose or hold until they adjust to the liquid?  I know you can only answer in general terms.

 

Again sorry for the questions, slammed against a wall that doesn't want give way.

 

LB

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Thanks Builder.

 

I agree, trying to microtaper using the Ora Plus suspension would be a nightmare.

 

I was concerned about the alcohol in the RX LV, didn't know there was an alcohol free version

 

You mentioned Ora Plus didn't agree with you, but you tolerated the RX LV well. My only concern with RX LV is perhaps a problem with the additives.

 

Do most people on BB tolerate the alcohol free RX LV?  Do they updose or hold until they adjust to the liquid?  I know you can only answer in general terms.

 

Again sorry for the questions, slammed against a wall that doesn't want give way.

 

LB

  Additives?  Did you not think OraPlus was an "additive"?  BTW, its made up of good stuff like sucrose, glycerin sorbitol, flavoring, citric acid, sodium phosphate, methylparaben, and potassium sorbate,  And what do you think your tablets are?  A 2mg V tablet typically weighs about a 150mg, so its about 148mg additives, or more than 98% "additives".

 

Most folks do just fine with liquid. There really is no medical or pharmaceutical reason it should have any different effect...its the same med!  Most do a "trial run" for 10-14 days using liquid but no cuts.  And your only changing 1mg or less.  If you take 14mg tablets and 1mg liquid, how much effect do you really think it can have?

 

I really don't mean to offend you, but it seems pretty clear you have a lot of reservations about adding liquid, and are creating may unnecessary concerns.  Its pretty apparent to me that very often, the result you expect will be the result you get. Don't set yourself up for failure by expecting problems that are very  unlikely to occur.

 

My transition to liquid was seamless.  I did a 10 day trial (8mg tablets and 1mg diluted liquid V) and experienced zero changes.  Then I started cutting .025mg/day.  I took 8mg tablets and the rest of my dose (1mg or less) from liquid).  Generally, my taper was smooth and I had only occasional mild sxs (sleep issues, tremors, mild headaches). 

 

You can do this!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

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Thanks, I'll look into the Roxane Diazepam Solution. Do most people tolerate the glycol solvent well?

 

I use Roxanne's alprazolam intensol (alprazolam, propylene glycol, salt, and water) and love how easy it is to dilute and measure. Tastes nasty full strength, but it's fine diluted. I've had no problems at all using it. For me, it's much easier than cutting or dissolving pills.

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Thanks, I'll look into the Roxane Diazepam Solution. Do most people tolerate the glycol solvent well?

 

I use Roxanne's alprazolam intensol (alprazolam, propylene glycol, salt, and water) and love how easy it is to dilute and measure. Tastes nasty full strength, but it's fine diluted. I've had no problems at all using it. For me, it's much easier than cutting or dissolving pills.

 

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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Thanks, I'll look into the Roxane Diazepam Solution. Do most people tolerate the glycol solvent well?

 

I use Roxanne's alprazolam intensol (alprazolam, propylene glycol, salt, and water) and love how easy it is to dilute and measure. Tastes nasty full strength, but it's fine diluted. I've had no problems at all using it. For me, it's much easier than cutting or dissolving pills.

 

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

Builder knows! And he knows how spoiled I am right now titrating my easy X intensol. But ahead of me lies the dreaded Librium titration! :o If L came as an intensol, I would use it in a second, special order and all.

 

That said, there have been some members who have preferred to cut pills. I thought pill cutting was a big pain in the you-know-what! ;)

 

I have a progress log called Gardener's Collection where I posted some supplies I use to dilute and pre-set-up my doses. Got everything on amazon. Not sure if anybody has helped you with that yet. If not, you can check out my list as a starting place.

 

BTW, I did knock over my bottle of intensol once and nearly had a heart attack. (Scraped the spill over the counter edge and onto a plate with a spatula and then poured it back into the bottle with a funnel. Gross, but effective. After that, I put the little tippy bottle into a small, heavy flowerpot that was hard to knock over and kept it in there whenever I opened it to draw out a dose. The open bottle is always in the heavy flowerpot now. Actually, it lives in the flowerpot. I only lift it out to to put the cap off and on and then put it right back in the flowerpot. The pot is too narrow for the bottle tip over in it and much heavier and better balanced than the intensol bottle. Something small, heavy and not too wide is what you want if you're worried about tipping the bottle over.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks Builder, I'm not offended at all. Everthing you said is true. I need a reality check.  My overactive imagination frequently works against me.

 

Gardener99, thanks for reinforcing Builders comments about liquid tapering.

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Thanks Builder, I'm not offended at all. Everthing you said is true. I need a reality check.  My overactive imagination frequently works against me.

 

Gardener99, thanks for reinforcing Builders comments about liquid tapering.

 

You're very welcome. We are all walking through this together! :thumbsup:

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Thanks Builder, I'm not offended at all. Everthing you said is true. I need a reality check.  My overactive imagination frequently works against me.

 

Gardener99, thanks for reinforcing Builders comments about liquid tapering.

 

;)

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