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Valium pills plus liquid Valium for titration


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I'm just wondering if anyone has experience using Valium pills plus liquid Valium to slowly titrate. Right now I am on 10 mg total of Valium. My new doctor has me taking 3 mg in pill form in the morning and afternoon and 4 mg at night. Tonight I am to take 3 mg in pill form and 0.9 mL liquid. Then I continue to reduce 0.1 mL every other day until down to just the 3 mg in pills.  Another forum I am on is totally against this method. This is a new doctor for me because we recently moved out of the state. However, I am lucky in that he is well known in working with benzo withdrawal, has had articles published, etc. I would appreciate hearing from anyone with experience tapering with this method.
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Almost all folks who do a "liquid" taper off of Valium (diazepam) use a combination of tablets and pills.

 

I started my daily taper from 9mg.  Throughout almost all of my taper, I took most of my dose from tablets, and just the "cut" portion (1mg or less) by liquid. 

 

The beginning (9mg) was 8mg tablets and the rest liquid. And I cut the liquid by .025mg/day.  When I got down to 8mg, I took 7mg tablets, and the rest liquid, etc.  This is pretty much what everyone does. 

 

When I got down to 3 mg, I did switch to all liquid, but only because I had really good supply of liquid, so I just decided to make use of it. 

 

But just FYI, assuming your using the 1mg=1ml liquid, a .1ml daily reduction is a 10% cut in 10 days...pretty agressive.

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I'm just wondering if anyone has experience using Valium pills plus liquid Valium to slowly titrate. Right now I am on 10 mg total of Valium. My new doctor has me taking 3 mg in pill form in the morning and afternoon and 4 mg at night. Tonight I am to take 3 mg in pill form and 0.9 mL liquid. Then I continue to reduce 0.1 mL every other day until down to just the 3 mg in pills.  Another forum I am on is totally against this method. This is a new doctor for me because we recently moved out of the state. However, I am lucky in that he is well known in working with benzo withdrawal, has had articles published, etc. I would appreciate hearing from anyone with experience tapering with this method.

 

Hi,

Oh yes.. There are a ton of people who taper like this here.

I'm one of them.

IMO it's the mellowness form of tapering. Comparing just dry cutting and liquid to taking the escalator instead of stairs...

 

I would say to replace 1 mgr of Valium tablet with liquid for at least a few days since some people need to get used to the different delivery method. Suspected is that it has to do with the quicker absorption.

Better to be safe than sorry. Not said you'll run into that, but why jinx it?

 

So, I think 0.1 ml for you will translate into 0.1 mgr daily which is on the large side for a daily taper. But then again, you'll be holding at that dose for two days, right ?

I'd say easier and more gentle would be 0.05 ml each day, which will give u out he same taper rate but in smaller increments , which should be even easier to tolerate.

 

Anyway, that's my two cents.

 

If you'd like, lease join us at the daily taper support group.

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=135284.0

Or the Valium support group.

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=96753.0

 

Many people , if not all, liquid taper there...

 

Welcome !

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Builder and Moodle, thank you for your prompt and informative replies. I am almost 80 years old and this getting off Valium has been difficult. Not the way I wanted to spend my remaining years. My doctor said I am in charge of how slow I need to go but it seems I have very few days when I feel well. I will take the full 1 mg of liquid for a few days before reducing.  Thank you again for being so kind.
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Builder and Moodle, I am using a 1-mL oral syringe that is calibrated at 0.1 mL. My current system is to reduce by 0.1 mL every two days. Please explain how you are able to measure 0.025 mL, or for that matter, 0.05 mL. It appears 0.025 mL is less than 2 drops of liquid. Do you use a syringe that is differently calibrated than mine? Thanks again for your help.
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Builder and Moodle, I am using a 1-mL oral syringe that is calibrated at 0.1 mL. My current system is to reduce by 0.1 mL every two days. Please explain how you are able to measure 0.025 mL, or for that matter, 0.05 mL. It appears 0.025 mL is less than 2 drops of liquid. Do you use a syringe that is differently calibrated than mine? Thanks again for your help.

 

I use a 1 ml syringe that is calibrated at 0.01.

Sorry, my liquid is 2:1 ratio,  meaning 0.5 mgr is 1 ml , so it works a bit different for me , measuring wise. I wasn't paying attention.

You have 1:1 liquid.

 

There are many types of syringes . There are ones that will allow you to measure smaller. Usually my Pharmacy just gives them to me...

Maybe give them a call. Otherwise you can probably find them at Amazon ?

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Thank you, Moodle, for the explanation. This can be very confusing and frustrating trying to figure out what to do, as you well know. Be well and thanks again.
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Thank you, Moodle, for the explanation. This can be very confusing and frustrating trying to figure out what to do, as you well know. Be well and thanks again.

 

Anytime. Yes, it can be very confusing. You're going to be fine here, people have been through all sorts of tapers and stages in tapering.

Hope your evening is calm, take care

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Builder and Moodle, I am using a 1-mL oral syringe that is calibrated at 0.1 mL. My current system is to reduce by 0.1 mL every two days. Please explain how you are able to measure 0.025 mL, or for that matter, 0.05 mL. It appears 0.025 mL is less than 2 drops of liquid. Do you use a syringe that is differently calibrated than mine? Thanks again for your help.

 

Hi Theosmom

 

Most people dilute their liquid valium. There are various ratios you can use. My preference was to put 1ml of your liquid valium with 99ml of water, which makes a 100ml solution. That way it will be much easier to measure your dose because you are using a much larger amount of liquid. You can still use your 1ml syringe if you want to, but you might find it easier to use a 10ml syringe.

 

Have a look at the first link I have in my signature. That was the method I used and it's one that a lot of people find very easy to follow.

 

Just a tip though. If you decide to follow that method you will find it much easier to think in terms of mls rather than mgs. For example a daily dose of 0.9mg is in fact equal to 90ml if you are using 100ml of liquid.

 

When using 100ml, to convert mgs to mls just multiply by 100. To convert mls to mgs just divide by 100.

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Builder and Moodle, I am using a 1-mL oral syringe that is calibrated at 0.1 mL. My current system is to reduce by 0.1 mL every two days. Please explain how you are able to measure 0.025 mL, or for that matter, 0.05 mL. It appears 0.025 mL is less than 2 drops of liquid. Do you use a syringe that is differently calibrated than mine? Thanks again for your help.

  Almost everyone using liquid V dilutes the med to make measurement easier, more accurate, and more consistent.  Many dilute 99:1, (1% solution) so then ..01mg=1ml. I usually diluted 9:1 (10% solution) so .1mg=1ml.

 

If you diluted just 9:1, then .5mg would be 5ml, and .25mg would be 2.5ml.  All you need to do to convert the mg to ml is move the decimal point.  Dilution is how liquid can be used to make very small changes.  When I started my taper, I was cutting .025mg/day, and eventually went as low as .001mg/day.

 

And just FYI, diluting does not alter the potency or stability of the med, and it can (should) still be stored at room temps.  I usually diluted enough med to last 10-14 days.

 

 

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Builder and Moodle, I am using a 1-mL oral syringe that is calibrated at 0.1 mL. My current system is to reduce by 0.1 mL every two days. Please explain how you are able to measure 0.025 mL, or for that matter, 0.05 mL. It appears 0.025 mL is less than 2 drops of liquid. Do you use a syringe that is differently calibrated than mine? Thanks again for your help.

 

Hi Theosmom

Most people dilute their liquid valium. There are various ratios you can use. My preference was to put 1ml of your liquid valium with 99ml of water, which makes a 100ml solution. That way it will be much easier to measure your dose because you are using a much larger amount of liquid. You can still use your 1ml syringe if you want to, but you might find it easier to use a 10mg syringe.

 

Have a look at the first link I have in my signature. That was the method I used and it's one that a lot of people find very easy to follow.

 

Just a tip though. If you decide to follow that method you will find it much easier to think in terms of mls rather than mgs. For example a daily dose of 0.9mg is in fact equal to 90ml if you are using 100ml of liquid.

 

When using 100ml, to convert mgs to mls just multiply by 100. To convert mls to mgs just divide by 100.

 

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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As moodle suggested, a smaller taper every day should be eaier than I bigger taper every other day.

 

Curious... with the long half life of Valium... do you really think it matters if it's every day or every other day?

 

I guess when you think about it, we're talking 30 cuts in a month vs 15 cuts... so seems like it would make a difference.

 

 

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As moodle suggested, a smaller taper every day should be eaier than I bigger taper every other day.

 

Curious... with the long half life of Valium... do you really think it matters if it's every day or every other day?

 

I guess when you think about it, we're talking 30 cuts in a month vs 15 cuts... so seems like it would make a difference.

 

I was thinking the Same thing when I started.

But even if the cuts are felt delayed...this still goes. Just further down the road.

Is what I came up with.

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The underlying principle of a daily microtaper is smaller cuts are more tolerable than bigger cuts.

 

And why not cut each day instead of every other day...?  Your going to take a dose every day anyway.

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The underlying principle of a daily microtaper is smaller cuts are more tolerable than bigger cuts.

 

And why not cut each day instead of every other day...?  Your going to take a dose every day anyway.

 

Yup. I think if I had to do it over again, I'd just have cut smaller but without holds every fourth day.

I think it went better than on cut and hold and might have saved me some time along the way too. I guess we'll never know but that's what I stuck with.

 

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The underlying principle of a daily microtaper is smaller cuts are more tolerable than bigger cuts.

 

And why not cut each day instead of every other day...?  Your going to take a dose every day anyway.

 

Agreed. I've always thought that the best way to taper is to make small cuts more often. The ultimate way of doing that is a daily taper, making sure of course that the cut you are making is one your body can tolerate.

 

If I was do my daily taper again, and being wise after the event of course, I think I would make a practice of doing a monthly hold for maybe a week, even if I felt I didn't need to. Of course my impatience wouldn't allow me to do that when I was tapering, but knowing the wall I hit at 1mg, and all the other times I had to hold or do small updoses, I think doing regular holds like that might have helped to avoid that.

 

OTOH - who knows. Maybe it might not have too. I'm not planning on tapering again to find out, that's for sure ..lol... :)

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With pills, I can either cut .025 every day (.75mg/month).. or .04mg every other day (.60mg/month)... I know it's obsessing over the tiny things, but it's what I have to work with using the scale.
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You have to taper the way you feel is right for you. If what you are doing is working for you then stick with it. However, if something isn't working, try changing it.
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Curious... with the long half life of Valium... do you really think it matters if it's every day or every other day?

 

I guess when you think about it, we're talking 30 cuts in a month vs 15 cuts... so seems like it would make a difference.

 

The underlying principle of a daily microtaper is smaller cuts are more tolerable than bigger cuts.

 

And why not cut each day instead of every other day...?  Your going to take a dose every day anyway.

 

Agreed. I've always thought that the best way to taper is to make small cuts more often. The ultimate way of doing that is a daily taper, making sure of course that the cut you are making is one your body can tolerate.

 

If I was do my daily taper again, and being wise after the event of course, I think I would make a practice of doing a monthly hold for maybe a week, even if I felt I didn't need to. Of course my impatience wouldn't allow me to do that when I was tapering, but knowing the wall I hit at 1mg, and all the other times I had to hold or do small updoses, I think doing regular holds like that might have helped to avoid that.

 

OTOH - who knows. Maybe it might not have too. I'm not planning on tapering again to find out, that's for sure ..lol... :)

 

Absolutely.  For a given rate of reduction the optimal route is a straight line.  This is the path that leaves the drug in your body the longest (to help manage symptoms).  Daily reduction comes very close to a straight line.  If you dosed more than once a day I suppose there would be a small improvement available beyond a daily cut, by reducing each dose within a day, but I doubt it would be a noticeable improvement.

 

The people who shave pills - especially K - often cut every other day or every third day, not because they want to, but because they have to.  The pill size limits them from making cuts small enough to cut every day.  It is not optimal, but gets a result that is fairly close to a daily taper.

 

Hi DP, good to see you around again. :)

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Thanks for all the information. Right now I feel so unwell that I can barely understand all that's been said. Being almost 80 years old doesn't help either. I think we "elderly" most likely metabolize drugs differently than younger people. I believe this taper of 0.1 mL every other day is too fast and I need to slow it down. I see my doctor in two weeks and I will discuss this with him, if I can get my brain working properly. This whole thing is making me feel hopeless, helpless and frustrated. But I'm sure you've all been there. I appreciate your sharing your experiences with me.
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Hi Theosmom. I'm 70 years old and I too could hardly understand what was being said in answer to my initial question until I found a topic on this forum that explained it so clearly that even I could follow it. The Topic I refer to "Example of a Valium/Diazepam Daily Reduction Method" there is a link but I'm not sure if I am allowed to use it...I'll give it a try  www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=97511.0  I'm sorry to hear you are feeling so unwell and hope things start improving soon. Kindest regards. xx
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Good morning Stuckinarut. Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my post. I will check out the link you shared. I'm going to try to get an earlier appointment with my doctor so maybe between him and the information I've found here, we can come up with a plan where I will feel less symptomatic. I wish you well
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