Dr has me off Klonopin .25mg + in three days. Going crazy

Hi:

What do you think about my PsyDr taking me off Klonoin in three days.

I am a week out and am losing it (10 days total). My body is going crazy with HR all day and night 90-100bpm, muscle twitches, HIGH anxiety and panic accompanied by PTSD flahsbacks...to where everything triggers me to some frightening feeling period in my life when I was hyperaroused (before treatment). I think the super-pulsating feeling I feel all through out my body may be tremor.

I have been on Serquel and Lexapro for a while, and finished tapering these over fours months. I had only 6mg Seroquel, 2.5 mg Lexaro and .25 Klonopin eve and 1/2 .25mg 2x daily remaining. The dr took me off all the "scraps" and on to 125 mg Depakote plus a small dose of ativan. After three days, I was having a lot of trouble with confusion, oversedation and nightmare of an intensity I have never had before. S, I was kept on Depakote alone.

The depakote,  really doesn't help and if anything causes my nightmares to be more intense (happens 4 hours after each dose) and is over stimulating/agitating after the initial "chill" factor, which lasts not very long.

I finally had to give in with dr consent to taking a 1/4 of a .5mg Ativan last eve with a 125mg Depakote.

When I took the Ativan, I finally knew what street drug addicts must feel ( I have never abused drugs) I was so feeling good and such a profound sense of relief . The heart slowed, the tremors were less, and my mind stopped going crazy. I felt for hours as though I were enveloped in a loving bubble calm.

Weird things happened too, like all the muscle twiching I had been experiecing and chalked up to nerves or low potassium, started twiching all at once for a while, and then were silent. It was freaky. But, From this I deduced that the peace and calm I felt, that I never felt on Depakote (we tried 125mg 3x a day for a few days) , was in acutality a sign that I was enduring a MEGA Klonopin withdrawal.

I guess the psydoc feels that .25 klonopin (acutally a bit more ) for 8 months is not that big a deal. But, I am very sensitive, so I guess given that and my PTSD, I am vulnerable to the effects of withdrawal.

I did not like the way the Klonopin made me feel, I am not sure about trying the Valium, I think maybe Ativan would be ok as I have used it in the past, but sparingly over the years, when I was still on the evil Seroquel (was WAYYY overmedicated).

We meet tomorrow. What taper schedule should I suggest. I went through 10 day of suffering and the 1/4 of the .5 mg ativan seems to calm me. I woke at 5 AM today, feeling anxious, it was wearing off, but waited till 10AM this morning to take the next piece. Got some peace!

If I were going to start from the beginning, I would  be taking the whole .5 mg ativan. Should I start over or start from a lower dose, having gone already through the ten days of withdrawal.

I don't want any more suffering like being in bed or doing deep breathing all day. I want to LIVE my life while withdrawing, not manage my code 10 anxiety all day having wacko mental experiences that are frightening.

Any suggestions welcome. 

Hi Nuala,

Welcome to BenzoBuddies!!

Jumping off from .375mg of Klonopin is a substantial amount. The Depakote was given to stave off any seizures from jumping off of that amount. We would suggest reinstating the lowest amount possible to make you comfortable, stabilize and then do a slow taper off either the Klonopin or Ativan. For substitution purposes, 1mg of Ativan = .50mg of Klonopin = 10mg of Valium.

We also recommend getting the smallest tablet available to make cutting them easier. Ativan is available in a .50mg tablet, you can cut them into 1/4s (.125mg) and reduce by that amount every 7-14 days. If this proves to be too difficult, titration is an option. This would be crushing your pill into a powder, mixing it with milk and reducing by a very small amount every day.

If you have any more questions, just ask!!

T2

Hello Nuala,

Welcome to BenzoBuddies, I'm so sorry for your experience.  You've rightly deduced that your suffering is due to your rapid withdrawal from the benzo's.  All of the people here are too familiar with these symptoms.  T2 has given you some good information, but please ask if you have more questions.

I want to let you know that you're not alone and we're here to help you during this process.  Please feel free to make yourself at home around the forum, and do as much reading about the process of withdrawing from benzo's as you can. 

Knowledge helps us to fear the process less and helps us cope with the strange and frightening symptoms that come with it.

Pam

Thanks to you both for your suggestions.

I am a difficult case, as I am hypoadrenal and it seems that most of the medications I have been given down-regulate the HPA axis, cause some level even though they are sedating, so I can still have extreme panic underneath all the while. Unfortunatley,  I am very senesitive to the effects of medication and large doses of medication incapacitate me. For instance, a single 1/4 of a .5 mg Klonopin puts me out. It is difficult.

I ended up checking in the the psych unit (4 years ago) following a bad experience with Paxil, though I did not know it at the time....thought it was all me....and was put on increasing doses of Seroquel, as I kept getting more anxious, etc. Again, thought it was me. Last year, I struggled to taper on my own, but failed and had to go to my pdoc who upped the Seroquel from where I was at 25mg, and then threw in the Klonopin for the heck of it last October as she now felt I had "panic" disorder".  After struggling all these years on bad meds , I have been so traumatised, every mental manifestation or bit of anxiety throws me into a panic, as I fear I will end up in bad hands throwing meds at me.

I have a good doc now who agreed to help me off the meds, but it has not been easy. I think we may have gone too fast, and certainly with the Klonopin.

I wonder if I will ever recover from this nightmare as years of my life pass me by, as I am too unwell to work or particpate in much. I am so sick of it. 

What a horrible story, I'm so sorry for your suffering.  It seems as if you were given a new medication with the appearance of each new symptom.  And it's possible that all the while you were having reactions to the initial medication. 

I've heard in the past about the overmedication of our elderly, but never realized it was happening to so many people in so many circumstances.

I truly believe Nuala, that you will recover from this nightmare.  With the help of your new Dr and your perseverance it's possible.  You've finally made the connection between the drugs and your deteriorating health that should turn your life around.

Please keep hope in your heart, I know it's difficult but it's so important now.  Many of us were frightend we'd never return to good health but we did and I feel you will too.

Pam

Thanks to you both for your suggestions.

 

I am a difficult case, as I am hypoadrenal and it seems that most of the medications I have been given down-regulate the HPA axis, cause some level even though they are sedating, so I can still have extreme panic underneath all the while. Unfortunatley,  I am very senesitive to the effects of medication and large doses of medication incapacitate me. For instance, a single 1/4 of a .5 mg Klonopin puts me out. It is difficult.

 

I ended up checking in the the psych unit (4 years ago) following a bad experience with Paxil, though I did not know it at the time....thought it was all me....and was put on increasing doses of Seroquel, as I kept getting more anxious, etc. Again, thought it was me. Last year, I struggled to taper on my own, but failed and had to go to my pdoc who upped the Seroquel from where I was at 25mg, and then threw in the Klonopin for the heck of it last October as she now felt I had "panic" disorder".  After struggling all these years on bad meds , I have been so traumatised, every mental manifestation or bit of anxiety throws me into a panic, as I fear I will end up in bad hands throwing meds at me.

 

I have a good doc now who agreed to help me off the meds, but it has not been easy. I think we may have gone too fast, and certainly with the Klonopin.

 

I wonder if I will ever recover from this nightmare as years of my life pass me by, as I am too unwell to work or particpate in much. I am so sick of it. 

Nuala 

I had a very similar story as far as a long series of new meds being added over the years when all along it was most likely reactions to the medications all along.  I was even medicated for bipolar disorder for about 5 years!    Since I was on benzos nearly 20 years, I often wonder if I'll heal completely before I die but take heart by re-reading what Prof Ashton wrote about the course of withdrawal:

COURSE OF WITHDRAWAL

During benzodiazepine withdrawal, symptoms characteristically wax and wane, varying in severity and type from day to day, week to week, and even during the course of a day. Some symptoms come and go; others may take their place. There is no need to be discouraged by these wave-like recurrences; the waves become less severe and less frequent as time passes. Typically "Windows" of normality, when you feel positively well for a few hours or days, appear after some weeks; gradually the "Windows" become more frequent and last longer, while any intervening discomfort ebbs away.

It is impossible to give an exact time for the duration of withdrawal symptoms. It depends on where you start from, how much support you need and receive, how you manage your taper and many other factors. With slow tapering, some long-term users have virtually lost all their symptoms by the time they take their last tablet, and in the majority symptoms disappear within a few months. Vulnerability to extra stress may last somewhat longer and a severe stress may - temporarily - bring back some symptoms. Whatever your symptoms, it is best not to dwell on them. Symptoms are just symptoms after all and most of them in withdrawal are not signs of illness but signals of recovery. Furthermore, as your mind clears, you can work out more and more effective ways to deal with them so that they become less significant.

One reassuring finding from many clinical studies is that eventual success in withdrawal is not affected by duration of use, dosage or type of benzodiazepine, rate of withdrawal, severity of symptoms, psychiatric diagnosis, or previous attempts at withdrawal. Thus from almost any starting point, the motivated long-term user can proceed in good heart.

Robaxin helped me with the muscle twitching. A must have drug for me when I was in full withdrawal was Inderal. It definitely calmed me by reducing my heart rate and it does not work in the brain. It is a beta blocker. Time is the only true healer. Good luck all.

TK

Thanks to you all for your supportive comments.

on muscles twitches - they were popping up more frequently and all day, mainly in my legs, then arms then chest. On the eve I reinstituted a 1/4 .5 ativan, during the course of it taking effect, all my twitches went crazy and then stopped. It was really weird.

the problem I have with the w/d is that I am sensitive to benzos =  Initally, the reaction is good, but then as the hours progress, I get some feeling of disorientation, confusion and hign anxiety "terror" even though I am not aroused. Yesterday, I took my 1/4 piece in the afternoon, by 1 1/2 hr later was sleepy. I tried to rest and immediately fell into a hypnogigic state, where my thoughts turn into "dreams" even though I am not aslpee.

This has been going on since I started Klonopin in Oct of last year. I wasn't sure at the time what was causing it, since my psydoc put me on high dose of Seroquel. some lexapro and .5 klonopin, folliwing an unsuccess self-taper.

This is all a long story to say, that I was put on a benzo while on other drugs. I had no idea how benzos affected me. Now, that I am on a small amount only , I can really feel the side effects. So, my problem is I cannot get off it any faster than I am able, yet at the same time, being on it causesd me great distress. Has anyone else had this problem?

I NEVER took a nap since that time till recently, since I was so frightened by the expereince, until my new doc explained what was going on.

Robaxin helped me with the muscle twitching. A must have drug for me when I was in full withdrawal was Inderal. It definitely calmed me by reducing my heart rate and it does not work in the brain. It is a beta blocker. Time is the only true healer. Good luck all.

TK

I hear ya TK, but I'm compelled to say that *every* drug works on the brain.  I used to use Robaxin and also tried some other muscle relaxers such as Baclofen.  The problem is when mixing the drugs they can cause respiratory suppression, among other things.  Unfortunately, my experience is that the doctors do not recognize it as such.  It is too frequently written off as anxiety - panic attacks, improper breathing, or allergies and asthma-like reactions.  Muscle relaxers and CNS depressants (and narcotics) are a risky combination, regardless of the dosage. 

Also, I found that Robaxin has an unusually strong chemical odor to it, similar to antibiotics. The stuff really messed up my stomach, burning, acid - horrible.

Time is the only true healer

Nuala:

The part where you say, "my problem is I cannot get off it any faster than I am able, yet at the same time, being on it caused me great distress..." - oh yes, I can definitely relate.  That is EXACTLY what I'm going through, too, and thought you would take comfort in knowing you are certainly not alone.  I am currently on .21mg of Klonopin and titrating very slowly due to being hyper-sensitive to everything under the sun.  I began my taper in mid-March from .75mg Klonopin (.25mg 3 x day) and it took me 4-1/2 months to taper off of .5mg of that, but I'm OK with that.  Any time I go too fast for me, I suffer so I know a rate of approx .03mg per week is what I have to maintain until I'm done. 

Keep posting here to Benzo Buddies.  These people have helped me greatly in knowing I'm not alone, I'm not an exception, I'm not going crazy and I WILL come out of this and heal.  You will, too.  I hope and pray you will soon find relief and the patience to persevere this journey.

Jan

Anxgirl:

I am glad to hear someone else who had bad experiences while on benzos. I don;t know what is worse, the wackadoo thoughts and hypnogogic states I expereience, or the w/d from too quick a taper. I can tell you the w/d is BAD. I would gladly take a piece of Ativan to stop it, but the consequences a few hours later are so frightening, that I really have no choice.

Once I got off my other drugs, I had to go back on a small dose of Ativan, 3/x a day (3/4 of a .5 mg). Like you, I am super sensitive to meds. I would feel pleasantly sleepy, calm (my body was so HAPPY), but then I would drop off to sleep and start dreaming the moment my eyes were closed. Jar awake even though I know now what I have been expereinceing since October (and thought was my mental "disease") was really a hypnogigic state. Turn into a nightmare, wake up. Then have an omnious scary mental feeling, like wearing a filter. My altered perception is so "real" that even if I try to say to myself "its just the drug" I cannot overcome the terror produced. Everything felt like the atmosphere from a horror movie. then it would go away, and the w/d come back.

Anyhow, the physical w/d is very significant. Noise is SOOOO loud and triggers all sorts of PTSD (my diagnosis), sensations and flashbacks to times in my life I was hyper aroused. Birds, airplanes, commercials on tv, Stimuli is overwhelming. I WAS NOT LIKE THIS BEFORE DRUGS! Not to this degree.

My HR was so high one day (114bpm) and I was pacing and shaking and reliving every drug-induced trauma, that I had to take a bit of Ativan. Like magic all disappeared. Then the "crazy" feelings started.

Working with my Dr, we decided to try low-dose Lithium to stop the hyperarousal. It did work, but underneath I am still shaking, etc etc. So sick. Every morning I wake up I wish I could be unconcsious again because I feel so ill.

But, on the brighter side, I DO sleep.

Unforntunalely, I have been so traumatised (new Pdocs words) by the drugs and psych diagnoses (side effects = mental illness manifestation) that I still doubt that I am expereincing a w/d and wonder if I am losing my mind. LOTS of mental states, esp derealization. But, getting a little better. So, I am hopeful.

Right now, I am on 1/4 of .5 mg. It doesn't bother me at night, since I sleep. I am holding here for a while, since my Dr believes I am also experiencing protracted w/d from my other meds.

I knew this would not be easy. Just, I did not know it woul be so hard.

I am really sorry for your suffering nuala. Take your time listen to your body. Do you have support? That is very important during this. Also maybe you could try to not nap during the day?? Just reserve sleep for night so maybe some of the scary dream states diminish? I keep reminding myself that this won't kill us and its not permanent. So hold onto these two things and know you will get better. Can I ask you about your experience w seroquel? How much were you on?

Thanks feel better

Nuala:

You are definitely not going crazy.  It's the drugs, and believe me - I know how very difficult it is to believe that due to all the negative thoughts, horror, dread and fear telling you otherwise.  I know there is so very little we can do to stop the protracted w/d s/x; there's so much out of our control during this, but there are things that are within our control.  Sam brought up one very good point, and that is that we need support - on this board and in person.  I don't know what I would have done or where I would be without the support of certain few loved ones in my life.  Sure, it's hard for others to understand what we go through when they haven't been there, done that, but it sure helps to surround yourself with people with compassion and patience while going thru this.  At least seeking wise counsel and practicing controlled breathing and de-stressing techniques is within our control.  I was suffering from protracted w/d from other psych drugs whenever I reinstated my Klonopin last November (for the 3rd time) and may still be suffering a bit from that and the w/d from the Klonopin, but I refuse to give in to this and have decided to overcome this, as scary as it all is.  We are here for you and so many of us have walked where you are walking now and still are.  Keep posting and sharing and asking questions here.  You WILL get through this, and keep telling yourself, as pointless as it may seem at times, that it IS the drugs and NOT you.

Jan