Dissolving in water and liquid drug absorption

Hi, I'm really really a newbie to tapering-- I have some concerns about the Klonopin I'm tapering dissolving in water.. It seems many people say it doesn't dissolve in water but I crushed my tablet with a mortar and pestle then added my water and shook it up, it seems fine. I can't stand milk, don't want to use alcohol and like the ease and convenience of water but guess I'm a bit concerned it won't absorb right in my system or something. Also, doesn't Klonopin or any other drug for that matter process differently in the body when taken as liquid? I just started last night and am so nauseous today. I know WD causes nausea but I've never had it this bad before when cutting my pills down and am wondering if it could be due to different absorption rates/metabolizing in the body as a liquid. Thank you so much for any help! 

Hi, I'm really really a newbie to tapering-- I have some concerns about the Klonopin I'm tapering dissolving in water.. It seems many people say it doesn't dissolve in water but I crushed my tablet with a mortar and pestle then added my water and shook it up, it seems fine. I can't stand milk, don't want to use alcohol and like the ease and convenience of water but guess I'm a bit concerned it won't absorb right in my system or something. Also, doesn't Klonopin or any other drug for that matter process differently in the body when taken as liquid? I just started last night and am so nauseous today. I know WD causes nausea but I've never had it this bad before when cutting my pills down and am wondering if it could be due to different absorption rates/metabolizing in the body as a liquid. Thank you so much for any help! 

 

The drug is the same, of course but many have reported this. The absorption rate is different and you might have to get used to that, maybe ?

I know it affected me in a different way when I switched to,liquid.

 

You might want to try your question on the micro tapering support group and join us there

Here is the link , if interested.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=135284.0

As Moodle said, being a liquid does not change the amount of K, and there is an adjustment that many people feel when the switch is made.  It is a bit of a mystery why this happens.  If you just stay with it you will adjust and be fine.  I would not recommend doing any cutting until it passes.

 

K barely dissolves in water.  Such a small amount that you could consider it insoluble.  But you can make the water method work by suspending it and having good technique.  This is why alcohol is used.  The K is first dissolved in a little alcohol then diluted with a lot of water.  A liquid called propylene glycol is a good substitute for alcohol.  You can get this at pharmacies.

As Moodle said, being a liquid does not change the amount of K, and there is an adjustment that many people feel when the switch is made.  It is a bit of a mystery why this happens.  If you just stay with it you will adjust and be fine.  I would not recommend doing any cutting until it passes.

 

K barely dissolves in water.  Such a small amount that you could consider it insoluble.  But you can make the water method work by suspending it and having good technique.  This is why alcohol is used.  The K is first dissolved in a little alcohol then diluted with a lot of water. A liquid called propylene glycol is a good substitute for alcohol.  You can get this at pharmacies.

 

As Moodle said, being a liquid does not change the amount of K, and there is an adjustment that many people feel when the switch is made.  It is a bit of a mystery why this happens.  If you just stay with it you will adjust and be fine.  I would not recommend doing any cutting until it passes.

 

K barely dissolves in water.  Such a small amount that you could consider it insoluble.  But you can make the water method work by suspending it and having good technique.  This is why alcohol is used.  The K is first dissolved in a little alcohol then diluted with a lot of water.  A liquid called propylene glycol is a good substitute for alcohol.  You can get this at pharmacies.

 

SG,

 

Pharmacies sell PG?  Do you know if this is common?  I didn't know that.

Sharkey

As Moodle said, being a liquid does not change the amount of K, and there is an adjustment that many people feel when the switch is made.  It is a bit of a mystery why this happens.  If you just stay with it you will adjust and be fine.  I would not recommend doing any cutting until it passes.

 

K barely dissolves in water.  Such a small amount that you could consider it insoluble.  But you can make the water method work by suspending it and having good technique.  This is why alcohol is used.  The K is first dissolved in a little alcohol then diluted with a lot of water.  A liquid called propylene glycol is a good substitute for alcohol.  You can get this at pharmacies.

 

SG,

 

Pharmacies sell PG?  Do you know if this is common?  I didn't know that.

Sharkey

 

Yeah, I never used it or tried to buy it, but the reason I say that is I came across this video...

 

 

If you can't find it in a pharmacy, its available on Amazon.

I have ulcers all thru my GI tract and can not tolerate milk/dairy

 

How would one know how much propylene glycol to use that would dissolve diazepam?

 

I am water titrating valium. These days people are really freaked out about using water to titrate, but years ago I remember many people who did so successfully. Someone suggested milk to be better because it has fat molecules evenly distribted into it, but it's also got proteins and other junk too, plus I m totally intolerant to milk so it was a moot point.

 

I've successfully removed 2mg valium tablets using diluted water titration (2mg v into 100ml water) with very little incident, and have seen countless others do it as well. From my own research, diazepam is bound to the fillers and binders in the tablets, which can be dispersed into a water suspension.

 

but with everyone here so against it, it does make me insecure these days. Would be nice to have an alternative to something as corrosive as alcohol, esp for those of us with GI issues. Until the time comes when I know of a solvent that won't upset my GI tract, water is working for me.. but am still curious.

I have ulcers all thru my GI tract and can not tolerate milk/dairy

 

How would one know how much propylene glycol to use that would dissolve diazepam?

 

I am water titrating valium. These days people are really freaked out about using water to titrate, but years ago I remember many people who did so successfully. Someone suggested milk to be better because it has fat molecules evenly distribted into it, but it's also got proteins and other junk too, plus I m totally intolerant to milk so it was a moot point.

 

I've successfully removed 2mg valium tablets using diluted water titration (2mg v into 100ml water) with very little incident, and have seen countless others do it as well. From my own research, diazepam is bound to the fillers and binders in the tablets, which can be dispersed into a water suspension.

 

but with everyone here so against it, it does make me insecure these days. Would be nice to have an alternative to something as corrosive as alcohol, esp for those of us with GI issues. Until the time comes when I know of a solvent that won't upset my GI tract, water is working for me.. but am still curious.

 

 

"Diazepam has a solubility in water of 0.05mg per mL; 41mg per mL in 95% ethanol and 17mg per mL in propylene glycol."

 

 

http://www.pharminfotech.co.nz/manual/Formulation/mixtures/diazepam.html

 

For simplicity,  1ml PG per 1 mg V will work just fine then dilute as you choose (9:1, 99:1, whatever) 

Builder, when you say dilute as you choose do you mean after the mixing with 100ml or whatever of water, milk, etc..then throwing out toss amount to correct percentage of drug one is taking? I'm having a bit of an issue with this. The way I started titrating was with a 10ml syringe so I've gotten used to using that amount (ex: for 90% of my Klonopin dose, I throw out 1ml.) my issue is with diluting my actual dose...once I throw out my toss amount it doesn't matter how much water I dilute my dose with right? I'm using vodka as my solvent but hate the taste, even 1ml. Out of 10ml is pretty strong so I can dilute my dose with as much water as I want right? It seems a little counterintuitive to me...confirmation of this would be helpful for me..thanks!

Most folks doing liquid tapers (excluding milk tapers) dilute the solution to simplify measurement and improve accuracy and consistency.

 

For example, I used Rx liquid V, which is supplied in a 1mg=1ml solution.  I diluted that 9:1 with water, so I then had a 1mg=10ml, or .1mg=1ml solution.  I normally started with 10mg/ml of liquid V, and added 90 ml of water.

 

Starting at 9mg my taper schedule was

 

8mg tablets    .975 liquid

8mg                .950

8mg                .925

.

.

.

7mg tablets    .975liquid

7mg                .950

7mg                .925...etc

 

So for my .975mg of liquid, I drew 9.75ml from my prepared 9:1 dilute liquid and drank it.  For .950mg, I drew 9.50 ml from my prepared batch and drank it, etc. 

 

And yes, you can use any dilution ratio you choose.  Most folks actually prefer 99:1 because they feel it makes the calculations easier.  But either way, the "calculation: is just a matter of moving the decimal point.

 

And yes, after you have measured out your dose, you can dilute it any way you want.  The needed amount of V will be there now, no matter what you do.

Great, thank you for the clarification, it helps 

Angie, Builder is right, the 1mg:100ml makes the math so much easier.  Every 1ml contains 1/100 or  .01mg or 1% of klonopin.

 

With regard to taste, because I am using a 200ml measuring cup, after dissolving my Klonopin in 2ml of vodka, adding water to the 100ml mark, and removing my toss amount, I then add OJ, stir it up and drink it.  It makes it much more palatable.  I do swish some plain water in the cup afterwards and drink it to ensure I get every last drop of drug.

Thank you Judy. I totally get that the 100ml measurement is the most straight forward but since I got used to using 10ml my brain just wants to stay with that, lol. I find the 100 ml too much liquid for me to deal with and I end up making stupid mistakes. I'm going down by 2% every 3 or 4 days which equals one line on my 10ml. Syringe. It seems to be working so far I just add more water to my dose amount so the alcohol is more diluted. Thanks for the help