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New to Forum and Need Help Titrating From 2.5 mg of Valium


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First, let me say how very grateful I am to have found this forum. I have been on 5 mg of Valium for sleep for a few years. I saw a new family doctor who said that taking Valium for sleep was not a good idea and so she gave me a sleep medicne to take instead. The sleep medicine worked great, but she didn't tell me to taper off of Valium. Within a few days I went to the ER with stroke-like symptoms. The doctors didn't know what was wrong and I thought I had an allergic reaction to the sleep medicine. When going off the sleep medicine didn't help and I had tingling plus terrible pain I started googling for answers. It occured to me to research if there are withdrawel symptoms from Valium. Duh! Wish someone had told me. So, I went to another doctor in the same practice to get a prescription for 5 mg and validated that I was having withdrawels from the Valium. I went from 5 mg to 2.5 in about a month. That may have been too fast because I'm having tinging in my legs, achy ankles, anxiety and worried that I won't be able to cope with raising kids, taking care of a house, etc. So for 15 days I've been on 2.5. I was doing well at 2.5 and thought I'd cut a piece of the pill off to make it closer to 2.0. That's when problems started again. So now I'm back at 2.5 by splitting a 5 mg in half. I'd like to do the liquid titration and need help. My mind is pretty foggy and I don't want to make a mistake by trying to figure this out while in a brain fog. It seems that I could take a 2.5 section, put it in milk, and then titrate from there. Can someone let me know your thoughts on this and how much milk to add and how often to decrease the amount. Sorry to hassle you all with what may seem very simple. Any step-by-step advice would be greatly appreciated. Also, should I go back up to 2.75 since I'm having withdrawal symptoms, or should I ride this out and start tapering down once the symptoms go away?
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Hi Grace2000

 

You'll find plenty of help on these forums from some really experienced people. I thought I would chime in because your situation seems similar to mine.

 

So for 15 days I've been on 2.5. I was doing well at 2.5 and thought I'd cut a piece of the pill off to make it closer to 2.0. That's when problems started again. So now I'm back at 2.5 by splitting a 5 mg in half.

 

I'm not sure if you're familiar with the Ashton manual however it sounds like you've been doing well so far. Getting down into the lower doses, those .5mg cuts can sometimes feel a bit rough. Your cut rate remains the same however the dose is getting lower so the overall percentage of the cut is higher.

 

A lot of people at the lower doses change over to a liquid medium and do a daily micro taper, rather than the cut and hold approach which tends to shock your system each cut. I will steal a quote from another member here on BB and say cutting and holding is like going down stairs where a daily liquid taper is like going down a ramp, all you have to do is work out the angle at which you go down.

 

I'll point you in the direction of this thread here which is written very clearly which will assist you in starting a liquid taper http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=97511.0

 

There are a few options to liquid tapering however you mention using the milk method. This is what I am currently using and many have successfully used it.

 

I was in a similar situation to you. I'll link you my questions here so hopefully it might answer some of your questions http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=137421.0

 

Also, should I go back up to 2.75 since I'm having withdrawal symptoms, or should I ride this out and start tapering down once the symptoms go away?

 

Before implementing any sort of liquid taper you should stabilize. You could up dose slightly as you've suggested if your symptoms are unmanageable or maybe hold for a week or two at your current dose. It's important to remember the long half life of Valium so a hold for a week or two should allow you to stabilize before starting on a liquid.

 

When you do stabilize and want to change over to using milk, it can also be worth holding at your current dose for a week or so. Sometimes the change over to liquid can feel like a bit of a cut however this point is a bit of a grey area as some argue you're using your own tablets, the medium is the same, so you shouldn't feel anything. Everyone is different but it's just good to know this stuff ahead of time.

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You could put half a 5mg pill into 25ml full fat whole milk, but what I would do is put the entire 5mg pill into 50ml and split it into two 25ml doses for a two-day supply.  This will be more accurate.  More liquid is also an option (some people just like working with a larger amount of liquid).  Then use a 1ml and 10ml oral syringes.

 

It is always a little difficult to know if updosing is the right thing to do as it depends on how long ago you cut to 2.5mg.  As time goes by an updose becomes less likely to e effective, so it is a gamble.

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Thank you both so much for these suggestions. Is 2 ml/day cuts the norm? Yesterday I was having a rough day with tingling, aches, anxiety and depression. I took 2.5 mg at 10:30 p.m. but by 12:30 p.m. I was still not feeling well, so I upped by dose by another 1.25. I did sleep for six hours and the tingling is less and the aches are gone this morning. I think I may need to stabbilize at 3.75 for a week. I'm not patient or good at math, so I'll be learning both skills through this journey.

 

So it seems like I would then stake 3/4 of my 5 mg pill to make 3.75 and stay on that for a week to stabilize. Then mix a solution of 375 ml of milk with the 3.75 of Valium, and then go down 2 ml a day. When I get to 250 ml (I can use a 5 mg to make a two-day dose), and then continue at a 2 ml reduction/day.

 

I'm 48, married, with two teens who keep me busy. I was feeling so bad yesterday that I thought I would need to get a cabin in the mountains and hire a nanny to take care of my kids. I don't want to miss out on this precious time with them while they're still home and going to high school. In three years both kids will be off to college, and I'll never get this time back. I don't want my kids last memory of time with me as a mom being that I was strung out and irritable, so I am hoping that this slow taper will enable me to function well and do a good job as a wife and mom.

 

I do plan to exercise every day. I also have quit coffee and only drink one beer at night if I feel really wired or agitated. I imagine that alcohol can make things worse. I hope that one beer to mellow out at night is okay. Usually I would have a glass or two of wine at night, but I'm finding that wine actually winds me up (maybe the sugar), and that beer has a more mellowing effect. I also have cut out sugar.

 

I'm overall healthy and fit, but have this benzo issue. I feel very saddened and angered that my doctors never said that I needed to taper and that they had so casually put me on this medicine to begin with. I know that forgiveness is key to mental health, so I won't obsess about being a victim of bad medicine. I do plan to do all that I can to warn others of benzos and the need to taper once I'm recovered.

 

At any rate, if anyone can let me know if my plan sounds right, that would be great. Based on my math (which is not too great), if I go down from 375ml (3.75 mg of Valium) at 2 ml cuts a day, this should take me a little over six months. Does that seem like too slow of a taper?

 

I'm so grateful for this forum and having a place to get help.     

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At your dose I'd probably begin by cutting .015mg/day.  How many mls that is depends on how much milk you choose to use to dilute it.  If you have 5mg pills I'd say use at least 50ml liquid, but more than 100ml really is not necessary.  But if you really want to use several hundred that is okay to do.
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SG57 -- 50 ml of milk sounds a lot beter than 375 ml :) I have major brain fog and need help with the math and measurements. If I need to start at 3.75 mg, how would I do this with the lower milk amounts? I'm not sure how much to take out with each day if I'm using less milk. I understand it with the 100 ml measurement; but tricky to understand with the milk is cut in half. Also, I live in the U.S., so I had to order the 100 ml syringes online. I can find 10 ml and 60 ml syringes at medical supply stores. Thank you!
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Yes, no need to use so much milk!

 

All you need is 1ml and 10ml syringes and a few jars, although a 60ml syringe would be convenient to have.

 

What you could do is put a 5mg pill into 50ml whole milk and remove 1.25mg (12.5ml) to get your 3.75mg dose.  Then just toss the 12.5ml or "recycle" it for a future dose.  When you are ready to cut a .015mg cut would be done by removing .15ml.

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Thank you so much! This really helps. I'm going to start this after holding for one week at 3.75. I appreciate all your help.
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What you could do is put a 5mg pill into 50ml whole milk and remove 1.25mg (12.5ml) to get your 3.75mg dose.  Then just toss the 12.5ml or "recycle" it for a future dose.  When you are ready to cut a .015mg cut would be done by removing .15ml.

 

Sorry for all the questions -- I'm still confused a bit. I had seen on another post about going down 1 ml/day. If I'm using 50ml of milk, I was wondering why cutting at .15ml is recommended. Is 1 ml (assuming a 100 ml mixture) recommended or is that too much? .15 just seems like a tiny amount.

 

Thanks for your patience :)

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What you could do is put a 5mg pill into 50ml whole milk and remove 1.25mg (12.5ml) to get your 3.75mg dose.  Then just toss the 12.5ml or "recycle" it for a future dose.  When you are ready to cut a .015mg cut would be done by removing .15ml.

 

Sorry for all the questions -- I'm still confused a bit. I had seen on another post about going down 1 ml/day. If I'm using 50ml of milk, I was wondering why cutting at .15ml is recommended. Is 1 ml (assuming a 100 ml mixture) recommended or is that too much? .15 just seems like a tiny amount.

 

Thanks for your patience :)

 

What matters when you cut is mgs not mls.  At your dose I chose .015mg a day as a careful place to begin.  If you did 1ml that would be .1mg/day...that would make you sick pretty quick.

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