Time to cross to V

Friends,

I cannot continue MT X. Simply too symptomatic.

I would like help on planning a cross to V.

I will need to triangulate the dosage for I'm a fast metabolizer for the CYP2C19 pathway.

Here is my current dosing schedule.

6:30 am - .105 X

9:30 am - 2 mg V

10:30 am - .105 X

1:30 pm - .105 X

4:30 pm - .105 X

7:30 pm - .105 X

10:00 pm - 2 mg V

11:30 pm - .105 X

What I wish to do is cross over, stabilize and then MT. I will need to dry MT in that my Pdoc is not on board with a liquid MT.

Thank you for your help.

Marija

Friends,

I cannot continue MT X. Simply too symptomatic.

I would like help on planning a cross to V.

I will need to triangulate the dosage for I'm a fast metabolizer for the CYP2C19 pathway.

Here is my current dosing schedule.

6:30 am - .105 X

9:30 am - 2 mg V

10:30 am - .105 X

1:30 pm - .105 X

4:30 pm - .105 X

7:30 pm - .105 X

10:00 pm - 2 mg V

11:30 pm - .105 X

 

What I wish to do is cross over, stabilize and then MT. I will need to dry MT in that my Pdoc is not on board with a liquid MT.

 

Thank you for your help.

 

Marija

Hi Marija. I want to wish you good luck with this. I am also an ultra-fast metabolizer of 2C19, and, as you know, am crossing to Librium (the other slow benzo Ashton uses) because of that. X and L both use 3A4 so I'm hoping that makes the cross work better for me. The X and L thing is just a random theory of mine and I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

For what it's worth, I've been taking one dose of X at a time and changing about half of it to L, waiting a few days, then doing the same to a different dose, but not one right next to the one I just changed. I got my ideas from Ashton's charts: http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm#s7  and  http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm.

Eventually I'll combine doses and hope to get down to 3 doses of L per day. SG57 helped me figure out most of this. I'm only up to 3 partial doses of L with 3 partial doses of X and 3 full doses of X so far.

I see you're already already partially on V and are right on my heels! We can do this!

Thanks Gardner.

I am a normal metabolizer for 3A4 so hoping it will average out as well.

I have other phase II glucoronidation issues as well, but do not know how much that will play I to this.

Thank you for your thoughts.

.105 mg X is approximately 2.1mg V

Maybe try replacing my nighttime dose?

Thanks Gardner.

I am a normal metabolizer for 3A4 so hoping it will average out as well.

I have other phase II glucoronidation issues as well, but do not know how much that will play I to this.

Thank you for your thoughts.

.105 mg X is approximately 2.1mg V

Maybe try replacing my nighttime dose?

You know, you're already partially crossed over, and your X doses are so small, maybe you don't need to do half a dose at a time the way Ashton dose it. She actually assumes 4 doses of X and subs half of one dose at a time, so that would be 1/8th of the total dose. And then she waits a week and does it again. I don't do math these days, but it seems that you'd be right around 1/8th of your total with one of your X doses.

I'd say starting with the nighttime dose would be a good idea. I started with a daytime dose and quickly changed it to my nighttime dose because it made me so sleepy in the daytime. That's wearing off, though. I've been kind of wobbly, up and down every day, during the cross over. Hoping that levels out as I cross more. I guess overall I'm a bit better than I was on all X, which was pretty consistently awful after I got below 1.3mg/day. So up and down is an improvement, right?!

We can do this!

P.S. If you scroll down to the "rate of crossover" thread, you'll see SG giving me advice about it.

Yes, .105 is small enough that I believe I can make a direct swap and hold, tackling each of 6 X doses that way.

We shall see!!

Good to hear you are experiencing improvements!!

Thank you!!

Yes, .105 is small enough that I believe I can make a direct swap and hold, tackling each of 6 X doses that way.

We shall see!!

 

Good to hear you are experiencing improvements!!

Thank you!!

Friends,

I cannot continue MT X. Simply too symptomatic.

I would like help on planning a cross to V.

I will need to triangulate the dosage for I'm a fast metabolizer for the CYP2C19 pathway.

Here is my current dosing schedule.

6:30 am - .105 X

9:30 am - 2 mg V

10:30 am - .105 X

1:30 pm - .105 X

4:30 pm - .105 X

7:30 pm - .105 X

10:00 pm - 2 mg V

11:30 pm - .105 X

 

What I wish to do is cross over, stabilize and then MT. I will need to dry MT in that my Pdoc is not on board with a liquid MT.

 

Thank you for your help.

 

Marija

What do you mean by "triangulate?"

Your daily dose appears to be 16.6mg V.  Can you tell me how are you getting the .105mg X doses?  Liquid?

Thanks for stopping by, SG.

By triangulation, I'm referring to dosing 3 times a day. 6, 2 10, something like that.

Currently, my capsules are compounded with methylcellulose to try and make it behave like an extended release product. I've had independent assays conducted to verify accuracy.

That's cool...I didn't know pharmacies could do that with X.

Breaking the cross into six parts should work okay, so you might want to cross each X dose to 2.1mg V at a time.  You could merge all the V to the 6am, 2pm, 10pm times like you said.

Yes, it was an interesting experiment.

A bit challenging getting the dosage correct.  Too much methylcellulose and it binds too much of the drug negating the time release property.

I'm wondering if I should begin by adding in 2 mg V at 2:00 pm, without cutting, let it build for a day and then cut?

I'm worried that droping .105X will throw me into w/d if my body is currently detecting 2.5% cuts of X? 

Marija

By "cutting" I assume you mean not dropping out the X?  I think it goes without saying that you don't want to reduce your dose while crossing.

Yeah, getting a head start on the V might help.  IDK, it is a hard thing to get right, but I would think it would work out okay.  You could give it a try.

Yes, it was an interesting experiment.

A bit challenging getting the dosage correct.  Too much methylcellulose and it binds too much of the drug negating the time release property.

 

I'm wondering if I should begin by adding in 2 mg V at 2:00 pm, without cutting, let it build for a day and then cut?

I'm worried that droping .105X will throw me into w/d if my body is currently detecting 2.5% cuts of X? 

 

Marija

When I subbed in my first dose of L, I only reduced the corresponding dose of X by half of what I should have. And then the next day did the correct full substitution. I think it's a good idea. X is so fast and V is so slow. Didn't seem to set me back at all.

Thanks Gardner.

I will try that with my 2:00 dose. I will add 2 mg V and dump out a little from my X capsule for today.

How are you feeling over all?

What symptoms are better?

What remains the same?

Marija,

I just want to wish you strength and success with this cross over and I think it is wise I truly hope that it is easy for you and that it also makes you feel a bit better too. Adding the 2 mg to the 2.00 dose and a little bit of X sounds like a good plan to begin with. The V will build up in your system and hopefully it will settle quickly so that you can cross the next dose in the same way when you feel well enough. :smitten:

Gardener,

Thinking of you too with your crossover.

The only advice I can give is go slow. There are no medals at the end of this journey and our bodies are our only guides as individuals so let them be your guide over time. Tune in and slowly and steadily you will get there. I am still tapering and going slower as I go.   I am feeling well since slowing my taper to a cut a month.

Love Moya XXX

What symptoms are better?

What remains the same?

I have had some windows. My sleep is a bit better most nights. I sometimes have the thought that I may actually get my brain back, which I really didn't believe before. I actually laughed at something my son said the other day (got a weird, uncomfortable zing from it, though). I can't remember the last time I laughed spontaneously. I'm going for longer walks. My appetite has improved. I'm not losing weight. I can imagine enjoying things in the future and can enjoy some things a bit already.

I still have lots of phobias. I still have waves, some pretty intense. I still usually have that odd pain/pressure feeling in my upper chest. I still can't exercise as much as I did earlier in my w/d, before my crash. I still can't imagine being able to function at a job. I still don't drive out of my "comfort area" or after dark. (But I do drive!)

I still struggle quite a bit with having my daughter out of town, but I actually was able to let her go! I think I have figured out that having her far away is a PTSD trigger to my trauma 4 (or was it 5?) years ago because we were forcibly separated at that time, and I have such a strong memory of her standing there crying. So, that I am functioning while she is out of town is pretty amazing. 

Marija,

I just want to wish you strength and success with this cross over and I think it is wise I truly hope that it is easy for you and that it also makes you feel a bit better too. Adding the 2 mg to the 2.00 dose and a little bit of X sounds like a good plan to begin with. The V will build up in your system and hopefully it will settle quickly so that you can cross the next dose in the same way when you feel well enough. :smitten:

 

Gardener,

Thinking of you too with your crossover.

 

The only advice I can give is go slow. There are no medals at the end of this journey and our bodies are our only guides as individuals so let them be your guide over time. Tune in and slowly and steadily you will get there. I am still tapering and going slower as I go.   I am feeling well since slowing my taper to a cut a month.

 

Love Moya XXX

Hi, Moya! I just noticed you have a blog. I am going to have to go take a peek!

Marija,

I just want to wish you strength and success with this cross over and I think it is wise I truly hope that it is easy for you and that it also makes you feel a bit better too. Adding the 2 mg to the 2.00 dose and a little bit of X sounds like a good plan to begin with. The V will build up in your system and hopefully it will settle quickly so that you can cross the next dose in the same way when you feel well enough. :smitten:

 

Gardener,

Thinking of you too with your crossover.

 

The only advice I can give is go slow. There are no medals at the end of this journey and our bodies are our only guides as individuals so let them be your guide over time. Tune in and slowly and steadily you will get there. I am still tapering and going slower as I go.   I am feeling well since slowing my taper to a cut a month.

 

Love Moya XXX

Moya,

Thank you for your encouragement and reassurance. I means the works to me. I've been hitting my head against this same brick walk for a couple of months now. Time to try a new path.

I will let you know how it unfolds.

Hugs,

Marija💗

Hi BB's,

Marija,

Gardener directed me to this post and I'm really interested in reading it, as a cross over is something I may very likely have to do in the future as my Ativan dose gets lower.

But I just wanted to wish you so much luck with this crossover. I know short acting benzos can be sooo tough to deal with, and I hope you can start to see some improvements like Gardener has.

blessings to you all.

hugs

shan

Shan, thank you for thinking of me. 😊

I haven't been in line much with this crossover.

I'm not sure if you ever watched the Rocky & Bullwinkle show; but if so, I'm feeling like I've been schrooched by the moon men, Gidney & Cloyd. 😁

I will check in on how you're doing on the microtaper thread.

Marija 🌺

Shan, thank you for thinking of me. 😊

I haven't been in line much with this crossover.

I'm not sure if you ever watched the Rocky & Bullwinkle show; but if so, I'm feeling like I've been schrooched by the moon men, Gidney & Cloyd. 😁

 

I will check in on how you're doing on the microtaper thread.

 

Marija 🌺

Schrooched?? That doesn't sound good!  

Cloyd, the moon man, carries a gun that "schrooches" or freezes people for an undetermined amount of time. My brain feels schrooched.

I wish he would have schrooched my burning, tingling legs & the right side of my face, that is currently twitching violently on its own, instead!!

Cloyd, the moon man, carries a gun that "schrooches" or freezes people for an undetermined amount of time. My brain feels schrooched.

I wish he would have schrooched my burning, tingling legs & the right side of my face, that is currently twitching violently on its own, instead!!

Well, now I have learned a new word. Too bad it applies to your brain.

I'm sorry about the neuropathy. I've had that really bad myself, but it has settled down to just annoying, mercifully.

On a miserable day when all you have the energy to do is watch a program, utube the Rocky & Bullwinkle "Rocket Fuel" episode for a full introduction into "schrooching"!

What do you think help settle your neuropathy, Gardner?

Marija🌾