Is it just me, or are the majority of micro-tapers using L/T?

Just wondering.

 

Everyone I see doing daily tapers seem to be using either compounded liquid to cut or they make their own liquid suspension/solution.

 

I don't see many out there shaving pills and using jewelry scales to daily cut/micro-cut.

 

I'm down to 6.0mg Valium as of tomorrow, and have just been overwhelmed with withdrawal symptoms... and I've been cutting at a slow pace of .02mg/day with the scale. I feel like I'm going insane everyday, weak and exhausted as hell, anxious, depressed, rapid cycling, extreme DP/DR.. something that I wouldn't have expected when cutting as slowly as I am.

 

Would people recommend avoiding the shaving method? I can't in good faith keep doing this, because while I am lowering my dose, I'm going absolutely insane. I'm not going to put up with these ideations everyday.

 

I have pharma grade Valium Roxane brand (1ml:1mg Valium) and am considering holding at 6mg for a bit and then trying to daily taper with part pills and part liquid again.

 

Any thoughts would be welcome and appreciated. Thanks!

 

Dan

Just wondering.

 

Everyone I see doing daily tapers seem to be using either compounded liquid to cut or they make their own liquid suspension/solution.

 

I don't see many out there shaving pills and using jewelry scales to daily cut/micro-cut.

 

I'm down to 6.0mg Valium as of tomorrow, and have just been overwhelmed with withdrawal symptoms... and I've been cutting at a slow pace of .02mg/day with the scale. I feel like I'm going insane everyday, weak and exhausted as hell, anxious, depressed, rapid cycling, extreme DP/DR.. something that I wouldn't have expected when cutting as slowly as I am.

 

Would people recommend avoiding the shaving method? I can't in good faith keep doing this, because while I am lowering my dose, I'm going absolutely insane. I'm not going to put up with these ideations everyday.

 

I have pharma grade Valium Roxane brand (1ml:1mg Valium) and am considering holding at 6mg for a bit and then trying to daily taper with part pills and part liquid again.

 

Any thoughts would be welcome and appreciated. Thanks!

 

Dan

 

Dan-we have had this conversation before.  While I absolutely believe folks should choose whatever taper method that works for them, there are several reasons that dry-cutting/pill shaving/etc. is less than optimal.

 

Among the reasons, there is no assurance that the drug is evenly and uniformly distributed in the tablet, and uncertain accuracy and reliability of an inexpensive gram scale.  Both of these can contribute to dose-to-dose variabililty.  That probably isn't a big problem for many folks, but if you are extremely sensitive to changes in your meds, it can play a part.

 

Liquid overcomes those problems, plus it really is a lot simpler and less labor-intensive.  Just a few minutes every week or so to mix/dilute your batch, and your good to go.  And just a reminder, to reap the full benefit of liquid titration, your liquid must be diluted.

I totally agree with builder.

Dan...I also swithched up my methods when it got too hard for me.  I did pill cutting, roxanne, daily taper, and finally .25 cuts of Roxanne from 2.25 to 0.  I found switching the method sometimes gave me relief and sometimes not.  I found the daily bvery difficult because once you're in the soup and you realize it it's too late.  You have another 10 days of daily cuts which are going to show up in the next ten days and make it worse.  Cutting the .25 I knew when I would be at risk to be most miserable.  It still sucked super bad but it was a tad better. 

 

 

Drew,

Can you remind me what page of your blog your taper schedule is on?

Thx

SC

DP

 

Both of us have tried switching to the Roxane with bad results.  I just don't think we metabolize it well.  Here is another strategy which, while counter intuitive, might be an option.  Hold at 6 for 10 days.  Then cut .08 for 3 days and accept that you will get body slammed.  Just plan for it and accept that this is war and in war bad shit happens.  Wait 10-12 days to recover a bit.  Rinse and repeat.  Then ask yourself, was that worse than daily cutting?  That is how I have done this and I always seem to get stuck daily cutting and then having to stop and hold anyway which lengthens the taper and the agony. 

 

I may try the Roxane again at some point but am hell bent on getting to 2 mg without significant delay this summer.  I'm no longer working so have one mission:  taper valium and get off the shit.

Good discussion guys and I appreciate everyone's input.

 

I will be at 6mg on Wednesday... the one thing I DON'T get is, why in the world did I have trouble doing the 1mg Roxane Liquid Valium and the rest in pills? There is no rational reason I see for this being the case. It would circumvent every problem I currently have... and every worry regarding pill weights, accuracies, distributions... it would make things a breeze compared to where they are now... The symptoms that I've been going through are nowhere near something someone who's been micro-tapering 5-10% a month should feel. So I may do about a week hold on 6mg pills, switch to 6mg Roxane/pills again, and then try that one more time.

 

I don't know if I gave the liquid enough time... and I threw other variables into the mix... .... I started cutting right off the bat, I made a cut in my steroid dose around that time... don't know.

You're a hot mess    DP-I did a combo of pills an liquid from around 10mg and converted to all liquid about 4mg.  Don't quote me but it was something like that.  I didn't have any real problems and you have so many other variables in the mix.  I was pretty nauseous when I first switched but I was nauseous at times during the whole withdrawal. 

You are one of the cases such ss myself where we feel every cut and it is not decent the whole way down.  I would take the pills and the last mg you are working down on the Roxanne combo.  Your body will get used to it and it may just be the natural progression of your symptoms regardless.

 

Remember...stop overthinking this shit

Good discussion guys and I appreciate everyone's input.

 

I will be at 6mg on Wednesday... the one thing I DON'T get is, why in the world did I have trouble doing the 1mg Roxane Liquid Valium and the rest in pills? There is no rational reason I see for this being the case. It would circumvent every problem I currently have... and every worry regarding pill weights, accuracies, distributions... it would make things a breeze compared to where they are now... The symptoms that I've been going through are nowhere near something someone who's been micro-tapering 5-10% a month should feel. So I may do about a week hold on 6mg pills, switch to 6mg Roxane/pills again, and then try that one more time.

 

I don't know if I gave the liquid enough time... and I threw other variables into the mix... .... I started cutting right off the bat, I made a cut in my steroid dose around that time... don't know.

 

 

You're correct, Dan, there is NO rational reason why the liquid should have caused you any problem.  Almost certainly your "reaction"/ sxs were the result of some other factor, unrelated to the liquid V.

You'll do good. 

 

Dry cut my Clonazepam from 3mg all the way down to .067mg using a razor blade and jewelry scale. 

 

Zero issues.  I think a lot of the issues that normally come along tapering this med can be "blamed" on

anything we want to blame;  there's a long list. 

 

Job.  Spouse.  Other illnesses (some diagnosed and known some not known).  Other meds.  The "uneven

distribution of the drug in the pill."  Bad news in the world.  Didn't cross over to Valium.  Did cross over to

Valium.    Tapering too fast.  Tapering too slow.  All of this stuff can have an impact.  But to me

it all pales when compared to the goal:  get off the stuff the best you can, keep going.  Arrive at the

end of the nonsense and get on with your life. 

 

I began the taper about two years ago and am now at the end after a regimen of about 10% (more or

less at times) per two weeks (more or less at times  ).  Just kept going.  Just like 99% of benzo

taperers.  Just kept going and didn't let worries about liquid vs dry distract me. 

 

Just kept going.  Oh I said that.   

Dry cut my Clonazepam from 3mg all the way down to .067mg using a razor blade and jewelry scale. 

 

Zero issues.  I think a lot of the issues that normally come along tapering this med can be "blamed" on

anything we want to blame;  there's a long list. 

 

Job.  Spouse.  Other illnesses (some diagnosed and known some not known).  Other meds.  The "uneven

distribution of the drug in the pill."  Bad news in the world.  Didn't cross over to Valium.  Did cross over to

Valium.    Tapering too fast.  Tapering too slow.  All of this stuff can have an impact.  But to me

it all pales when compared to the goal:  get off the stuff the best you can, keep going.  Arrive at the

end of the nonsense and get on with your life. 

 

I began the taper about two years ago and am now at the end after a regimen of about 10% (more or

less at times) per two weeks (more or less at times  ).  Just kept going.  Just like 99% of benzo

taperers.  Just kept going and didn't let worries about liquid vs dry distract me. 

 

Just kept going.  Oh I said that. 

 

Great approach. 

 

The only drawback is that it took as long as 2 years but if you're happy with that then it's not really a problem.

 

 

Yep I really took my time and went by the Ashton suggestion of cutting only 5% to 10% and at 10

day to 14 day intervals.  It's been almost two and a half years, looking back.

 

Some just want it over and done with and go ahead and cut more sharply and/or more often. 

 

I did not research effects of doing it faster.  I do now see a lot of symptoms being talked about that I've

never had, mostly physical stuff in the faster taperers.  I've had some symptoms, dp/dr in the beginning

and up to about six months ago I think.  But none of the nasty stuff we can read about in most of the

Buddie Blogs and in the support areas here. 

 

I attribute my lack of symptoms to the slowness of my taper.  It's not for everyone.  Some want that

jump date to be not too far down the line.  We're all different. 

Im shaving and agree that its not optimal. Can someone direct me to a thread bout how to convert pills to liquid?

Start a thread in the titration section and you will get help there.

Im shaving and agree that its not optimal. Can someone direct me to a thread bout how to convert pills to liquid?

 

Going by your previous posts you appear to be taking diazepam/valium. If you check out the first two links I have in my signature below, they will give you a guide for a liquid titration method for valium tablets and/or liquid valium.

 

PS - if you could do a signature giving your current dosage and benzo type that would be helpful for others to know where you're at, so they can then give you the best possible advice.

Just wondering.

 

Everyone I see doing daily tapers seem to be using either compounded liquid to cut or they make their own liquid suspension/solution.

 

I don't see many out there shaving pills and using jewelry scales to daily cut/micro-cut.

 

I'm down to 6.0mg Valium as of tomorrow, and have just been overwhelmed with withdrawal symptoms... and I've been cutting at a slow pace of .02mg/day with the scale. I feel like I'm going insane everyday, weak and exhausted as hell, anxious, depressed, rapid cycling, extreme DP/DR.. something that I wouldn't have expected when cutting as slowly as I am.

 

Would people recommend avoiding the shaving method? I can't in good faith keep doing this, because while I am lowering my dose, I'm going absolutely insane. I'm not going to put up with these ideations everyday.

 

I have pharma grade Valium Roxane brand (1ml:1mg Valium) and am considering holding at 6mg for a bit and then trying to daily taper with part pills and part liquid again.

 

Any thoughts would be welcome and appreciated. Thanks!

 

Dan

 

Dan-we have had this conversation before.  While I absolutely believe folks should choose whatever taper method that works for them, there are several reasons that dry-cutting/pill shaving/etc. is less than optimal.

 

Among the reasons, there is no assurance that the drug is evenly and uniformly distributed in the tablet, and uncertain accuracy and reliability of an inexpensive gram scale.  Both of these can contribute to dose-to-dose variabililty.  That probably isn't a big problem for many folks, but if you are extremely sensitive to changes in your meds, it can play a part.

 

Liquid overcomes those problems, plus it really is a lot simpler and less labor-intensive.  Just a few minutes every week or so to mix/dilute your batch, and your good to go.  And just a reminder, to reap the full benefit of liquid titration, your liquid must be diluted.

 

I am in agreement with Builder.