Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

Bob7, Thank you for all the wonderful math and measuring work you're doing! People would be doomed if I gave math help.

 

Gard

I am starting a taper of Valium and I am using a liquid Valium for part of my taper along with tablets. Has anyone used liquid Valium before? Is the potency pretty accurate as compared to tablet form? According to my prescription 1ml of liquid is equal to 1mg of tablet Valium. I am just curious have any of you had experience with the liquid Valium?

I have been micro cutting klonopin on the gram scale about .001g every day from one of my 3 daily doses. 

I started at .088 .088 .088 3 doses daily around beginning of August.

I’m now at .065 .055 .053

 

I go by total daily weight so I started at .264

Now at .173

 

Will these micro cuts all of a sudden slam me ? Is this too fast?

 

Thanks for any help.

Hi I was just wondering if I am doing this right. I have just got down to 0.5mg diazepam and hit a bit of a wall and plan on holding for a couple of weeks till symptoms pass. I was using cut and hold technique till I got down to 1mg then started daily micro cuts of 0.01mg a day dissolving 2mg tablet in 400ml milk. I got down to about .8mg was doing ok so upped to 0.015 per day.

 

From peoples experiences when I start again should I continue on 0.01mg reduction everyday. Its weird as 24 hours have gone by holding and already feel better but had this when I was cutting and holding. I would make the cut then after 24 hours I would feel a lot better then the symptoms would slowly ramped up until they peaked at about day 10 then start to ease then build again then start to really ease off after about 4 weeks. So I am wondering if this will again now as when I hit 0.5mg started to feel those bad symptoms again.

Hi Ella

Was wondering how/why 400ml of milk for 2mg benzo? I was told 20ml milk when I tried it. Mine failed as did vodka/water taper. Not judging just wondering. Peace and healing.

infoshare.

 

I am sorry that is meant to say 200ml. Will change it now.

I am starting a taper of Valium and I am using a liquid Valium for part of my taper along with tablets. Has anyone used liquid Valium before? Is the potency pretty accurate as compared to tablet form? According to my prescription 1ml of liquid is equal to 1mg of tablet Valium. I am just curious have any of you had experience with the liquid Valium?

 

Hi Spinner,

I c/o from Ativan to roxie (liquid) Valium/diazepam. I have not had any problems with it being liquid and I know there are many who use this as well. I do not have experience with shifting from pill form of V to a rx liquid form of V.  Others can give an account of this.

I will say that as with any change, most find that an adjustment to change is to be expected. But it is very doable and makes for an easier MT for most.  I truly believe you will do really well. 

I used the Rx liquid V for my entire microtaper.  The dose to dose consistency of the liquid if far better than the tablets.

 

I can't imagine an easier way to taper than with Rx liquid.

Bob7, Thank you for all the wonderful math and measuring work you're doing! People would be doomed if I gave math help.

 

Gard

It is so nice to be appreciated.  Thanks for the kind words.

Bob

I have been micro cutting klonopin on the gram scale about .001g every day from one of my 3 daily doses. 

I started at .088 .088 .088 3 doses daily around beginning of August.

I’m now at .065 .055 .053

 

I go by total daily weight so I started at .264

Now at .173

 

Will these micro cuts all of a sudden slam me ? Is this too fast?

 

Thanks for any help.

Hey offandon,

 

Reducing 0.001 grams by weight of your scale is probably 0.0029 milligrams reduction of klonopin each day (assuming your tablets are 0.5mg and weight about 0.17 grams).

You might want to confirm your tablets match my assumptions before reading on.

 

If my assumptions are correct, then your are reducing about 3 times faster than what I did.  My taper had a tolerable level of withdrawal most of the time with a few harder waves which didn't last too long.

 

As long as your withdrawal symptoms are tolerable, you should keep this faster rate of taper.  Yes, sometimes reductions add up and hit you all at once but since you have been doing this since August, you will probably be ok.

 

If you find you do need to reduce slower, I can help you.  You already are at the limit of your scale (you are reducing 0.001 grams a day because that is all you scale can read).  So to go slower, you can crunch your tablets into a powder and mix with a filler and then your scale will be useful to measure out smaller taper rates.  If interested, PM me.

 

I used the Rx liquid V for my entire microtaper.  The dose to dose consistency of the liquid if far better than the tablets.

 

I can't imagine an easier way to taper than with Rx liquid.

Hi builder,

He is doing both tablets and liquid Rx at the same time.  Since you indicate the liquid is better than the tablets, might he get into trouble as he converts one form to the other due to unexpected potency conversions? 

 

Hi builder,

He is doing both tablets and liquid Rx at the same time.  Since you indicate the liquid is better than the tablets, might he get into trouble as he converts one form to the other due to unexpected potency conversions?

 

Tablets or liquid, 1mg=1mg.

 

Liquid is better for taper purposes, but there is no difference in the therapeutic efficacy between liquid and tablets.

 

 

Hi builder,

He is doing both tablets and liquid Rx at the same time.  Since you indicate the liquid is better than the tablets, might he get into trouble as he converts one form to the other due to unexpected potency conversions?

 

Tablets or liquid, 1mg=1mg.

 

Liquid is better for taper purposes, but there is no difference in the therapeutic efficacy between liquid and tablets.

Well builder is a smart guy and knows a lot about this stuff. I do know that generic Klonopin versus brand-name Klonopin does vary in effectiveness and it even varies with the different generics. But perhaps this variation doesn’t apply with liquids.  Although it is reasonable to assume if you compare brand name to a liquid and generic to a liquid that would be a distinction.

Generic drugs are subject to the same standards of active ingredient content as their brand-name counterparts.  But, they often differ in their physical construction, and the content of inactive ingredients. 

 

And because of different manufacturing techniques, a liquid solution will always have superior distribution uniformity compared to tablets.

 

When you stir a teaspoon of sugar into your hot morning beverage, it will be uniformly distributed throughout the liquid.  But if your making a cake, and stir a teaspoon of sugar into a cup of flour, some parts of the cup of ingredients will have no sugar.

I have been micro cutting klonopin on the gram scale about .001g every day from one of my 3 daily doses. 

I started at .088 .088 .088 3 doses daily around beginning of August.

I’m now at .065 .055 .053

 

I go by total daily weight so I started at .264

Now at .173

 

Will these micro cuts all of a sudden slam me ? Is this too fast?

 

Thanks for any help.

Hey offandon,

 

Reducing 0.001 grams by weight of your scale is probably 0.0029 milligrams reduction of klonopin each day (assuming your tablets are 0.5mg and weight about 0.17 grams).

You might want to confirm your tablets match my assumptions before reading on.

 

If my assumptions are correct, then your are reducing about 3 times faster than what I did.  My taper had a tolerable level of withdrawal most of the time with a few harder waves which didn't last too long.

 

As long as your withdrawal symptoms are tolerable, you should keep this faster rate of taper.  Yes, sometimes reductions add up and hit you all at once but since you have been doing this since August, you will probably be ok.

 

If you find you do need to reduce slower, I can help you.  You already are at the limit of your scale (you are reducing 0.001 grams a day because that is all you scale can read).  So to go slower, you can crunch your tablets into a powder and mix with a filler and then your scale will be useful to measure out smaller taper rates.  If interested, PM me.

 

Hi Bob

 

Thank you for the very helpful info! Yes those are the weights I’ve been using. Felt it today more than usual per my post on dizziness earlier. Can you tell me how you come up with the ratio of weight to percent of klonopin? Not sure how to PM from my tablet.

Hi offandon,

 

Are you asking how to mix in a filler to dilute your klonopin and then how to weigh out smaller doses OR are you just asking the math question?

 

If it is the math question, it is a ratio.  Assuming your klonopin tablet is 0.5 mg dose and weighs 0.17 grams, then here is how to compute the Klonopin dose.  If you cut a piece of your Klonopin tablet and it weighs Z, then you dose in milligrams is Z times 0.5 divided by 0.17.

 

Bob

 

 

Bob7

 

Is it possible to use one of those pill fillers from amazon for dry powder tapering? I've never used one. I imagine it's

for dumping the same amount of ..whatever ingredient in all of them.

 

They need a measuring machine too.

 

The method is still intimidating to me, my fat fingers, capsules, measuring math. Am I over thinking it?

 

Ty

Infoshare

Bob7

 

Is it possible to use one of those pill fillers from amazon for dry powder tapering? I've never used one. I imagine it's

for dumping the same amount of ..whatever ingredient in all of them.

 

They need a measuring machine too.

 

The method is still intimidating to me, my fat fingers, capsules, measuring math. Am I over thinking it?

 

Ty

Infoshare

Well I am not sure which filler you refer to but the ones I use are from Amazon.  I can send you a link and some instructions if you have not seen them already.

As for over thinking it.  I think you might be.  I am hoping to build a website with some videos on how to do it.  I don't think it is too hard.  Peaceflower is doing it right now so you might PM her for a second opinion.  She said she would share her experience.

 

Hi Bob7

 

https://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Capsule-Maker-Vegetarian-Capsules/dp/B07HNSLK8W/ref=sr_1_10_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1540616161&sr=8-10&keywords=capsule+maker

I wasn't clear about I was referring to one of these capsule makers.

 

Infoshare.

Hi Bob7

 

https://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Capsule-Maker-Vegetarian-Capsules/dp/B07HNSLK8W/ref=sr_1_10_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1540616161&sr=8-10&keywords=capsule+maker

I wasn't clear about I was referring to one of these capsule makers.

 

Infoshare.

Hi Infoshare,

Thank you for clarifying.

Well the problem with this machine is it doesn't let you do accurate measurements of each individual pill.

If you are trying to taper a small amount in each pill, then each pill needs to be weighed separately on your scale.  I think this device is for herbs and oil, things which do not need precise measurements.

To measure into each of my gel capsules, I got a small piece of wood (or cardboard) and drilled a hole in it the same size as the capsule.  Then I put the wood on the scale with 1/2 of the capsule in the center of the hole and zero out the scale.  Then I add the powder to the capsule to get the right weight.

 

I have been micro cutting klonopin on the gram scale about .001g every day from one of my 3 daily doses. 

I started at .088 .088 .088 3 doses daily around beginning of August.

I’m now at .065 .055 .053

 

I go by total daily weight so I started at .264

Now at .173

 

Will these micro cuts all of a sudden slam me ? Is this too fast?

 

Thanks for any help.

Hey offandon,

 

Reducing 0.001 grams by weight of your scale is probably 0.0029 milligrams reduction of klonopin each day (assuming your tablets are 0.5mg and weight about 0.17 grams).

You might want to confirm your tablets match my assumptions before reading on.

 

If my assumptions are correct, then your are reducing about 3 times faster than what I did.  My taper had a tolerable level of withdrawal most of the time with a few harder waves which didn't last too long.

 

As long as your withdrawal symptoms are tolerable, you should keep this faster rate of taper.  Yes, sometimes reductions add up and hit you all at once but since you have been doing this since August, you will probably be ok.

 

If you find you do need to reduce slower, I can help you.  You already are at the limit of your scale (you are reducing 0.001 grams a day because that is all you scale can read).  So to go slower, you can crunch your tablets into a powder and mix with a filler and then your scale will be useful to measure out smaller taper rates.  If interested, PM me.

 

Hi Bob

 

Thank you for the very helpful info! Yes those are the weights I’ve been using. Felt it today more than usual per my post on dizziness earlier. Can you tell me how you come up with the ratio of weight to percent of klonopin? Not sure how to PM from my tablet.

 

Bob you amaze me with all your info. You rock! BTW I think I did .001 on the scale every 5th day when I was doing clonazepam. Snail slow!

Bob7

 

Is it possible to use one of those pill fillers from amazon for dry powder tapering? I've never used one. I imagine it's

for dumping the same amount of ..whatever ingredient in all of them.

 

They need a measuring machine too.

 

The method is still intimidating to me, my fat fingers, capsules, measuring math. Am I over thinking it?

 

Ty

Infoshare

Well I am not sure which filler you refer to but the ones I use are from Amazon.  I can send you a link and some instructions if you have not seen them already.

As for over thinking it.  I think you might be.  I am hoping to build a website with some videos on how to do it.  I don't think it is too hard.  Peaceflower is doing it right now so you might PM her for a second opinion.  She said she would share her experience.

 

I would be interested in the website too. I am having a lot of anxiety about doing it and holding off thinking about it until I stabilize for a month. Although I think with Librium I may just be able to reduce by .001g in the scale. The 5mg pills weigh .162x 6 = .972 for 30 mg. Thinking .001g reduction a day would be about 1 mg a month maybe 3.5% or so. I am not great with math let me know what you think Bob. I wouldn’t need to use the filler for this then correct?

Bob7

 

Is it possible to use one of those pill fillers from amazon for dry powder tapering? I've never used one. I imagine it's

for dumping the same amount of ..whatever ingredient in all of them.

 

They need a measuring machine too.

 

The method is still intimidating to me, my fat fingers, capsules, measuring math. Am I over thinking it?

 

Ty

Infoshare

Well I am not sure which filler you refer to but the ones I use are from Amazon.  I can send you a link and some instructions if you have not seen them already.

As for over thinking it.  I think you might be.  I am hoping to build a website with some videos on how to do it.  I don't think it is too hard.  Peaceflower is doing it right now so you might PM her for a second opinion.  She said she would share her experience.

 

I would be interested in the website too. I am having a lot of anxiety about doing it and holding off thinking about it until I stabilize for a month. Although I think with Librium I may just be able to reduce by .001g in the scale. The 5mg pills weigh .162x 6 = .972 for 30 mg. Thinking .001g reduction a day would be about 1 mg a month maybe 3.5% or so. I am not great with math let me know what you think Bob. I wouldn’t need to use the filler for this then correct?

Checking your math.  Yes, your numbers are close when you round off.  Here is the exact version:

Knowing 6 of your pills give a 30 mg dose and weigh 0.972 grams.

If you reduce 0.001 grams per day then in 30 days (one month) you have reduced 0.03 grams which is 3.09% for that first month representing a dose reduction of 0.93 mg.

I have starting working on the website.  Not sure how long to finish it but hopefully in a week or two.

 

Hi All

 

Just found this thread. I just started the daily liquid taper (vodka) for a few days now. Thanks to builder for helping me with the math for a 10 day solution

 

I was dry cutting 3.5mgs of valium for a few weeks and started decreasing my dose to .02mgs with the liquid taper starting on the 26th and currently 3.42mgs. 

 

First couple of days went smooth, but i seem to get almost cold turkey withdrwals today...

 

My question is, did i started the daily taper to fast? should i just stick to 35ml(3.5mgs) for a week or so till my body adjust..

 

i take my doses twice a day.. the largest dose late afternoon 2mgs and smallest dose early evening.

 

can i do a pill first dose and second dose liquid or should i stay with just liquid..

 

the witdrawals kind of suck as mines are more mental... like being in a manic state.. no panic attacks or anxity per say..

 

thanks all

I got that cold Turkey effect 2 and others of handed also it's written about I think lower down in this posting I worked on it for several different attempts in September. As I had to re establish and stabilize back on my tablet goes it doesn't seem to work for everyone unfortunately.

After reading hundreds of posts, I’m beginning to wonder if liquid taper methods only work well for those people who have not been on benzos for extended periods.  It seems like people who are on Benzos for a decade seem to need a very repeatable and reliable and micro daily reduction to be stable.

Bob7

 

Is it possible to use one of those pill fillers from amazon for dry powder tapering? I've never used one. I imagine it's

for dumping the same amount of ..whatever ingredient in all of them.

 

They need a measuring machine too.

 

The method is still intimidating to me, my fat fingers, capsules, measuring math. Am I over thinking it?

 

Ty

Infoshare

Well I am not sure which filler you refer to but the ones I use are from Amazon.  I can send you a link and some instructions if you have not seen them already.

As for over thinking it.  I think you might be.  I am hoping to build a website with some videos on how to do it.  I don't think it is too hard.  Peaceflower is doing it right now so you might PM her for a second opinion.  She said she would share her experience.

 

I would be interested in the website too. I am having a lot of anxiety about doing it and holding off thinking about it until I stabilize for a month. Although I think with Librium I may just be able to reduce by .001g in the scale. The 5mg pills weigh .162x 6 = .972 for 30 mg. Thinking .001g reduction a day would be about 1 mg a month maybe 3.5% or so. I am not great with math let me know what you think Bob. I wouldn’t need to use the filler for this then correct?

Checking your math.  Yes, your numbers are close when you round off.  Here is the exact version:

Knowing 6 of your pills give a 30 mg dose and weigh 0.972 grams.

If you reduce 0.001 grams per day then in 30 days (one month) you have reduced 0.03 grams which is 3.09% for that first month representing a dose reduction of 0.93 mg.

I have starting working on the website.  Not sure how long to finish it but hopefully in a week or two.

 

Thank you so much. If I start with that for now I won’t need the filler correct?