Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

Hi DLMT,

After a bit of a hold I am ready to start tapering my Xanax again.  Part of what was tricky for me -- and possibly for others on such strong benzos is that the concentration I had been using meant that one drop  of liquid could mean the difference between a good day and a day that was ...... tough.

 

So I've made my liquid in a concentration of .5mg of Xanax to 100ml of liquid. This will allow me much more control over how much I'm dropping per day as the numbers in mg are so ridiculously small.  (.001-.002 or less ).  This may not be a new way to taper with Xanax but it'll be new for me...

I'm really hoping to find a number where I can drop daily and keep up with my body.

I'm feeling pretty positive about the upcoming taper.

So glad this thread is here and that we're sticking together through this thing.

:smitten:

SS

 

When I was on X, that's what I did. Well, OK, that's what I did after first trying to taper liquid X without diluting it.   BAD PLAN! 

I think you'll be fine with your method. 

I seem to be a slow learner  :laugh:

GARDENER,

Not sure if you remember me, but I take 5 mgs of Librium.  I think you told me you put 5mgs in 100ml of water right?  Now that I'm real close to tapering down now I want to be sure I've got this right.  I know your med is in a capsule as well at 5 mgs.  Is that working well for you?  I'm using enough water right?  I'm sorry...just getting paranoid again.

I am a newbie, and much confused. Not sure if this is the place to post as I was directed.

History - been on Xanax for 22 years - super low dose - 0.25 mg in the morning, 0.25 mg in the evening. Past seizure history but NONE for 20 years, and NOT currently on medicine for that.

On November 26, 2017, I began a dry cut taper - I cut my morning dose by .0625 mg so was taking 0.1875 in the morning, 0.25 in the evening - did this for 2 weeks. It was OK but I did have some tolerance withdrawals as usual plus some addition withdrawal for that period - the worse being the first 5 days.

Last night, I decided to do my next cut. I stayed the morning dose of 0.1875 but reduce my evening dose to 0.1875 to equal both morning and evening dose to 3/4 of a 0.25 mg pill - too much, I think. This morning, I woke at 4:30 AM completely soaked from a sweat - and I don't sweat. Had some chest (sternum) discomfort, which I still have, and overall tense feeling. Couldn't go back to sleep. I realize this second cut was probably too much.

I now may want to skip the dry cut and go with the liquid titration but am honestly confused on HOW. My original plan was to dry cut taper by 0.0625mg every 2 weeks through December, January, and February then take the month of March as a recovery month for any side effects from 'jumping' off of Xanax. First - is that too quick for my low dose amount? Both my doctor and pharmacist are telling me that I am worrying for nothing - my body tells me differently.

And now, I need help on how to reduce via liquid. I have measuring cup with milliliters (100, 200, 300, etc.), a medicine dropper with milliliters markings (1, 2, 2.5), and I have a pill crusher. Without having to buy anything fancy, which I just don't have the money for right now, HOW do I mix, how much do I eliminate, and how often do I eliminate?

As an example, I understand the concept of taking the whole day's dose (morning and evening) and mixing it with 100 ML milk or water, and I understand the concept of removing 1 ML (or whatever) from the mix and throwing it away, then dividing what is left into 2 doses - one for the morning, one for the evening. After that, I get hung up. Do I hold that 1 ML reduction (or whatever), or do I go on to remove 2 ML the second day, 3 ML the third day, and so on and so forth? Or do I hold at some point, or what? Basically how do I actually reduce the liquid solution yet put the same amount of crushed pill in the mixture?

What is confusing me still is this: do I always mix 0.4375 into liquid, and if yes, how do I decide what to 'take away' from the mixture to throw away, and what amount that is left do I actually consume?

Found this that I had bookmarked - is it worthwhile to do or not? It seems like a super simple way to reduce on a low dose of Xanax.

http://www.benzosupport.org/lee's_simple_water_titraion.htm

ANY help would be appreciated. Tonight, I plan to go back to the dose of Saturday and hold for a day (unless someone states differently) which is 0.1875 morning, and 0.25 evening. If that is the case, my working pill amounts for any calculations would be  0.4375.

Please help - I so want to get off this medicine but I also want to do it safely and with limited withdrawals - particularly seizures.

THANKS

 

 

On November 26, 2017, I began a dry cut taper - I cut my morning dose by .0625 mg so was taking 0.1875 in the morning, 0.25 in the evening - did this for 2 weeks. It was OK but I did have some tolerance withdrawals as usual plus some addition withdrawal for that period - the worse being the first 5 days.

 

 

And now, I need help on how to reduce via liquid. I have measuring cup with milliliters (100, 200, 300, etc.), a medicine dropper with milliliters markings (1, 2, 2.5), and I have a pill crusher. Without having to buy anything fancy, which I just don't have the money for right now, HOW do I mix, how much do I eliminate, and how often do I eliminate?

 

 

THANKS

1)  If you were OK at .4375 (.25+.1875) I would go back to that dose to start.

2)  To mix, you dissolve your tablet in a little solvent (vodka or PG), and then dilute with water.  Make enough to last approx 10-14 days.

Ex:  Dissolve 5mg in 10ml solvent and dilute with 40ml water.  You will have 50ml dilute med, each ml contains .1mg X.

3) You don't eliminate anything, you just take less each day!  Sorry, but "pull and discard" is the silliest concept for taking medicine  I ever heard. ( Yeah, I know they do it on youtube, but its silly, wasteful, labor intensive, confusing, etc)

So following those instructions, lets say you want to cut 10% in 2 weeks;

.4375mg X 10% = .04375mg

.04375mg/14 days  = .003125mg/day  Round down to .003mg/day  This is the amount you will lower your dose (in mgs)  each day.

Your schedule will be:

.438mg    4.38ml

.435mg    4.35ml

.432mg    4.32ml

.429mg    4.29ml

etc...

The second column is your daily dose in milliliters.  Those are amounts you measure up from you original 50ml supply.  They are the amounts you measure up and drink.  You don't "eliminate" or "discard" any thing.  You just measure up and drink .03ml less each day.

With this schedule, you 50ml supply will last 12-14 days.  Store at room temp in a covered glass jar.

GARDENER,

 

Not sure if you remember me, but I take 5 mgs of Librium.  I think you told me you put 5mgs in 100ml of water right?  Now that I'm real close to tapering down now I want to be sure I've got this right.  I know your med is in a capsule as well at 5 mgs.  Is that working well for you?  I'm using enough water right?  I'm sorry...just getting paranoid again.

Yes, of course I remember you! And you've just about got it. I take my 5mg capsule, open it, and pour it into a bottle that has a tight lid. I add 3ml of 80 proof vodka (measured with an oral syringe) and swish it around a bit. This dissolves the Librium. Then I add 97ml of water (measured with a graduated cylinder but you could also use an oral syringe). Then I shake it up a little. Now I have 100ml of solution that will not settle out. I use that as my starting point.

I use the method of pulling my reduction, pitching it, and consuming the rest. I mix it up every night for the next day because Librium's stability as a liquid is iffy. I have my syringe and my cylinder marked with a sharpie to the correct line so I get it right each time.

I'm not quite sure how to explain this next part. At the beginning you're pulling and pitching very little and drinking what's in the jar. At some point, it will become easier to pull and drink what's in the syringe and pitch what's in the jar. Hope that wasn't confusing. If it was, just ignore it.

We are all slow when we start this. We are all benzo brains! But as you do it over and over it will become second nature.

Gard

P.S. To users of other benzos, when I was on Xanax, I did not use pull and pitch. I only recommend this method with Librium because I read an abstract on PubMed that seemed to say that Librium begins to break down into its metabolites pretty quickly once you liquefy it.  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20066402  I'm no chemist, but this article and the fact that my pharmacist would not make it into a solution for me have made me cautious about storing Librium as a liquid.

 

 

P.S. To users of other benzos, when I was on Xanax, I did not use pull and pitch. I only recommend this method with Librium because I read an abstract on PubMed that seemed to say that Librium begins to break down into its metabolites pretty quickly once you liquefy it.  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20066402  I'm no chemist, but this article and the fact that my pharmacist would not make it into a solution for me have made me cautious about storing Librium as a liquid.

Thanks for adding that disclaimer.

Because of some potential issues of stability with Librium that do not apply to any other benzos, the "pull and pitch" concept is a precautionary method that makes sense  for Librium.

But for all other benzos, it is a counter-intuitive, silly, wasteful, labor-intensive concept.  The logical way to lower your dose is...just take less!

 

 

On November 26, 2017, I began a dry cut taper - I cut my morning dose by .0625 mg so was taking 0.1875 in the morning, 0.25 in the evening - did this for 2 weeks. It was OK but I did have some tolerance withdrawals as usual plus some addition withdrawal for that period - the worse being the first 5 days.

 

 

And now, I need help on how to reduce via liquid. I have measuring cup with milliliters (100, 200, 300, etc.), a medicine dropper with milliliters markings (1, 2, 2.5), and I have a pill crusher. Without having to buy anything fancy, which I just don't have the money for right now, HOW do I mix, how much do I eliminate, and how often do I eliminate?

 

 

THANKS

 

1)  If you were OK at .4375 (.25+.1875) I would go back to that dose to start.

 

2)  To mix, you dissolve your tablet in a little solvent (vodka or PG), and then dilute with water.  Make enough to last approx 10-14 days.

Ex:  Dissolve 5mg in 10ml solvent and dilute with 40ml water.  You will have 50ml dilute med, each ml contains .1mg X.

 

3) You don't eliminate anything, you just take less each day!  Sorry, but "pull and discard" is the silliest concept for taking medicine  I ever heard. ( Yeah, I know they do it on youtube, but its silly, wasteful, labor intensive, confusing, etc)

 

So following those instructions, lets say you want to cut 10% in 2 weeks;

 

.4375mg X 10% = .04375mg

.04375mg/14 days  = .003125mg/day  Round down to .003mg/day  This is the amount you will lower your dose (in mgs)  each day.

 

Your schedule will be:

 

.438mg    4.38ml

.435mg    4.35ml

.432mg    4.32ml

.429mg    4.29ml

etc...

 

The second column is your daily dose in milliliters.  Those are amounts you measure up from you original 50ml supply.  They are the amounts you measure up and drink.  You don't "eliminate" or "discard" any thing.  You just measure up and drink .03ml less each day.

 

With this schedule, you 50ml supply will last 12-14 days.  Store at room temp in a covered glass jar.

Thanks for your info. I have printed out a copy of this. I am going to attempt to finish this particular cut from Sunday of 0.0625 - dry cut. Depending on how it goes whether I move to a wet version. Regardless, I will use the wet, I think, towards the end when the cuts become smaller, and the symptoms become greater. Your detailed answer was greatly appreciated. 

Gardener...thanks for reassuring me that i'm doing the right thing.  I'm doing it without alcohol as I reacted to the alcohol so here's hoping I can get by without it.  I've been drinking my liquid Librium 15 minutes after dissolving the powder as I knew about it being unstable in liquid.  I'm nervous about starting as I'm doing it with hormone levels of a dead woman...lol.  But I'm terrified of taking hormones right now.  Good luck to you on the rest of your taper! You have been so helpful to me over the past few months.    And, no, you didn't confuse me at all! 

Thank you too Builder!  You, Gardener and Vineet have been so helpful to me. 

Gardener...thanks for reassuring me that i'm doing the right thing.  I'm doing it without alcohol as I reacted to the alcohol so here's hoping I can get by without it.  I've been drinking my liquid Librium 15 minutes after dissolving the powder as I knew about it being unstable in liquid.  I'm nervous about starting as I'm doing it with hormone levels of a dead woman...lol.  But I'm terrified of taking hormones right now.  Good luck to you on the rest of your taper! You have been so helpful to me over the past few months.    And, no, you didn't confuse me at all! 

 

Thank you too Builder!  You, Gardener and Vineet have been so helpful to me.

Lib, have you considered propleyne glycol as a solvent?

I think you have at least 24 hours to consume your liquid. I asked a chemist what the charts in the study meant time wise (since I couldn't understand them). She said 24 hours was safe to store the liquid L.

If you're not dissolving, be sure to shake up and down for 3-5 seconds, make sure no vortex forms, and pull quickly from the center of the jar as best you can, because you have a suspension, not a solution.

People have used suspensions successfully. Just have to be a bit more careful.

Gard

I am currently on 27.5 mgs of Diazepam.  I started at 40 mgs and cut the 12.5 in about 3 months.  I had crossed over from Ativan to Diazepam.

After my last cut on 8/26/17 I had extreme withdrawal symptoms.  I found the long hold support group and was told it is best to hold until my body catches up.

I have been holding for almost 4 months and I don't seem to be getting any better.  After the second month I did have some windows but they were short and never a complete day.  But month 3 and now 4 I seem to be worse.

I'm not sure what to do at this point.  It was recommended to me to start a DMT even though I am having withdrawals that seem to be getting worse.  The member that referred me to this board told me that they tried long holds and never felt better.  I was only after starting a DMT that they started to feel better as the drug got out of their system.  I feel like I'm on poison and want it out but don't know what to do.

I must say I do feel more drugged now than I did when I was on 40mgs.  When I crossed over from Ativan I never did give my body any time to heal.  I immediately started cutting the Diazepam.

Is 4 months a long enough hold.  The members on the Long Hold Support group keep telling me to hold until I stabilize.  But, it don't seem to be getting any better.

I am up for any suggestions including a DMT.  If someone could give me some advice I would be very thankful.

If you do suggest a DMT I've heard of measuring with a scale and also doing it with liquid. 

Can someone tell me where to start and how to mix it up?  I can't do alcohol.  I used to be an alcoholic.

Here is how I'm currently dosing.  7:00 am - 10mgs, 3:00pm - 7.5mgs and 10mgs at 11:00 pm.

Can someone please let me know how to go about a DMT?

I am currently on 27.5 mgs of Diazepam.  I started at 40 mgs and cut the 12.5 in about 3 months.  I had crossed over from Ativan to Diazepam.

 

After my last cut on 8/26/17 I had extreme withdrawal symptoms.  I found the long hold support group and was told it is best to hold until my body catches up.

 

I have been holding for almost 4 months and I don't seem to be getting any better.  After the second month I did have some windows but they were short and never a complete day.  But month 3 and now 4 I seem to be worse.

 

I'm not sure what to do at this point.  It was recommended to me to start a DMT even though I am having withdrawals that seem to be getting worse.  The member that referred me to this board told me that they tried long holds and never felt better.  I was only after starting a DMT that they started to feel better as the drug got out of their system.  I feel like I'm on poison and want it out but don't know what to do.

 

I must say I do feel more drugged now than I did when I was on 40mgs.  When I crossed over from Ativan I never did give my body any time to heal.  I immediately started cutting the Diazepam.

 

Is 4 months a long enough hold.  The members on the Long Hold Support group keep telling me to hold until I stabilize.  But, it don't seem to be getting any better.

 

I am up for any suggestions including a DMT.  If someone could give me some advice I would be very thankful.

 

If you do suggest a DMT I've heard of measuring with a scale and also doing it with liquid. 

 

Can someone tell me where to start and how to mix it up?  I can't do alcohol.  I used to be an alcoholic.

 

Here is how I'm currently dosing.  7:00 am - 10mgs, 3:00pm - 7.5mgs and 10mgs at 11:00 pm.

 

Can someone please let me know how to go about a DMT?

I crossed from X to L and went right to cutting even though I was not stable because the L was so depressing. When life problems and tapering symptoms became too much, I ended up holding for nearly a year. I think it was 4 months before I had a hint I was getting better and 6 months before I was sure. I was always up and down but felt that generally after the 4th month I was having fewer downs. After a year I was confident I could start up again.

I hit a milestone recently and decided to hold again through the holidays. Lately I've been feeling worse. I think the holidays and some other events in my life are making me worse. I can't blame it all on the drug or the taper.

I know how you feel. Holding makes me feel like I'm suffering for nothing. But I made my plan to hold until after the New Year and I'm going to stick with that. I'll start up again very slowly. Maybe 5%/month. I think it will be psychologically easier to know I am making some progress.

I tried dry cutting and found it so annoying I would never try it again.

Benzos can be dissolved with propylene glycol, which you can find on amazon. There are also people who use whole milk. I don't have experience with either, so I'll wait for someone else to chime in with the details. I do believe diazepam comes as a liquid, so if your doctor will prescribe it, all you have to do is dilute. Easiest way of all. 

Sorry I can't help you with details about anything but how to liquid titrate Librium, but I'm sure someone will be along to get you started. One way or another, you'll get off this stuff.

Gard

 

I tried dry cutting and found it so annoying I would never try it again.

 

Benzos can be dissolved with propylene glycol, which you can find on amazon. There are also people who use whole milk. I don't have experience with either, so I'll wait for someone else to chime in with the details. I do believe diazepam comes as a liquid, so if your doctor will prescribe it, all you have to do is dilute. Easiest way of all. 

 

 

Yup dry cut/scale method is tedious, labor-intensive, and time consuming.

You, PG will work  (but if your doc will give you a scrip for Rx liquid, that's the gold standard for liquid tapering.)

Well I don't understand what is going on with me this morning.  I've been drinking my 5 mgs of Librium in 100 mls of water since Sept. 29th and doing very well.  I let it dissolve for about 15 minutes before drinking.  I can't do alcohol or PG.  I haven't started tapering down yet.

Well last night for some reason I thought I needed to dissolve it in more water (just my paranoid thinking) so I dissolved it in 150ml of water.  Well today I feel like I didn't take anything!! My head hurts, tension in neck and behind eyes....all WD symptoms for me.  Why would this be happening?  I just thought the less concentrated the better plus if I use 150 ml of water then 5% of that I would be taking out .25 the first day, then .50 which would be easier measurements for me take out rather than .15, .30, etc. 

The only other thing that could have me feeling this way is my Estradiol (estrogen) has bottomed out completely.  Or it's my increase in Magnesium glycinate which is only 100 mgs increase every other day.

Any insight?  Should I let it dissolve longer than 15 minutes?

Well I don't understand what is going on with me this morning.  I've been drinking my 5 mgs of Librium in 100 mls of water since Sept. 29th and doing very well.  I let it dissolve for about 15 minutes before drinking.  I can't do alcohol or PG.  I haven't started tapering down yet.

 

Well last night for some reason I thought I needed to dissolve it in more water (just my paranoid thinking) so I dissolved it in 150ml of water.  Well today I feel like I didn't take anything!! My head hurts, tension in neck and behind eyes....all WD symptoms for me.  Why would this be happening?  I just thought the less concentrated the better plus if I use 150 ml of water then 5% of that I would be taking out .25 the first day, then .50 which would be easier measurements for me take out rather than .15, .30, etc. 

 

The only other thing that could have me feeling this way is my Estradiol (estrogen) has bottomed out completely.  Or it's my increase in Magnesium glycinate which is only 100 mgs increase every other day.

 

Any insight?  Should I let it dissolve longer than 15 minutes?

Hi Lib. I'm so sorry you're having this wave. My thoughts:

1. The Librium is not dissolving in water. It's disintegrating and sinking to the bottom. Shake it up; it will settle out again. So shake and drink right away. After you drink, always put in more water, swish, and drink again to make sure you got everything. (I do this with even my dissolved Librium.)

2. Letting Librium sit longer does not help it in any way. Letting it sit too long (such as more than day) could possibly cause it to break down into its metabolites. Librium is an annoying drug.

3. I suspect the wave is not related to diluting the Librium more. I can't imagine what difference it could make unless you accidentally didn't drink all of it.

4. Hormones do seem to affect benzos. Women having cycles report worse symptoms at certain times in their cycles.

5. I've heard people in withdrawal both praise and curse magnesium. I don't know much else.

6. Something else you took could have affected the absorption. Grapefruit juice? Laxative or fiber drink?

Sorry that those are random thoughts. That's why I made a list instead of a paragraph! Perhaps should just swallow your whole capsule or go back to your 100ml method for a few days until this settles down and then try again. I find that when in a wave it's best to keep things as simple as possible.

One other thing to note, with benzos sometimes random things happen and you never know why. I have been holding for about 6 weeks and am suddenly worse than before the hold. Stress? Withdrawal? The drugs themselves? I don't know. I think there are many things we will never know and many things that we will understand once we are off. You've taken the first steps toward getting off. You will get there!

Gard

Thanks so much Gardener!  I'm sorry you are feeling worse...has got to be the stress of the holidays I would think.  And maybe that's what is happening to me.  I have some PTSD over this time of year. 

Well I do shake the hell outta my jar and drink so it can't be that plus I add more water, shake and drink again.  The only thing I did different last night was I didn't shake it for the usual 30 seconds.  Don't know why I didn't.  I only let it sit for 15 minutes to dissolve and then shake and drink. 

I guess the lack of hormones could be very well hitting me hard now.  the lower they go the worse I feel so definitely could be that.  I'm post menopausal.  Will never make my own again. 

I will take your advice and experiment with it by taking it in 100mls again for a few days then try 150 mls again.  I don't want to ever go back to taking it in capsule form again as my body has gotten so used to it in liquid form now...had WD's for 7 days after changing from dry to liquid. 

I did a smoothie yesterday with cucumbers in it....maybe it was considered a detox drink and could have affected the absorption..idk. 

I went back to doing my usual dose of Magnesium and will go from there.  Gosh...what a full time job this is!!  Gonna be one long journal before it's all over with. 

I hope you start feeling better soon.  You are so sweet to get on this forum and help others even when you don't feel good.  I may update IF I found the culprit!

Thanks again!

Thanks so much Gardener!  I'm sorry you are feeling worse...has got to be the stress of the holidays I would think.  And maybe that's what is happening to me.  I have some PTSD over this time of year. 

 

Well I do shake the hell outta my jar and drink so it can't be that plus I add more water, shake and drink again.  The only thing I did different last night was I didn't shake it for the usual 30 seconds.  Don't know why I didn't.  I only let it sit for 15 minutes to dissolve and then shake and drink. 

 

I guess the lack of hormones could be very well hitting me hard now.  the lower they go the worse I feel so definitely could be that.  I'm post menopausal.  Will never make my own again. 

 

I will take your advice and experiment with it by taking it in 100mls again for a few days then try 150 mls again.  I don't want to ever go back to taking it in capsule form again as my body has gotten so used to it in liquid form now...had WD's for 7 days after changing from dry to liquid. 

 

I did a smoothie yesterday with cucumbers in it....maybe it was considered a detox drink and could have affected the absorption..idk. 

 

I went back to doing my usual dose of Magnesium and will go from there.  Gosh...what a full time job this is!!  Gonna be one long journal before it's all over with. 

 

I hope you start feeling better soon.  You are so sweet to get on this forum and help others even when you don't feel good.  I may update IF I found the culprit!

 

Thanks again!

PTSD triggers this time of year...me, too.   Add the holiday stress and all the messages that you're supposed to be happy: perfect storm.

I don't think you need to shake that long. I shake for 5 seconds. 

I sure hope you start to feel better soon. Please take care of yourself.

Subliminal message: To reduce holiday stress, only follow traditions that are simple and involve chocolate.

Gard

Okay Gardener and Builder,

I know you guys are going to think I'm paranoid...but I am!  Tis the season! 

I'm fretting again over using alcohol...don't want to try the PG.  I read in another thread that we need 2 mls of solvent for each mg of benzo.  But Gardener, you are only using 3 mls for your 5 mgs of Librium.  Can I get by with using just 2 mls of alcohol?  There is no way I could do 10 mls in and add 90 mls of water and drink that...I'd probably pass out!  I dose  just like Gardener does. 

So Gardener, I guess if you feel like 3 mls is enough to create a solution then maybe that's what I'll try to do. 

BUILDER...could I get by with 2 mls of water for my 5 mgs of Librium? 

Sorry for fretting like this...guess cause I'm in a little wave right now. 

How do many people do water only tapers and do fine?  Wonder if I will be that lucky.

Based on the literature I found, librium is water soluble.  But I think Gardener's experience has been that it really doesn't work well.  I would defer to someone who has actual experience. 

BTW, 2ml of vodka is only .8ml of alcohol  (less than 2/10ths tsp).  You get more than that each day from naturally occuring alcohol and food sources, and from personal care products.  And PG is a a widely used solvent for hundreds of meds, both Rx and OTC, as well as hundreds of prepared foods and personal care items.  It's almost certainly in your toothpaste.  And there are Rx liquid benzos that are mfg'd with alcohol as a solvent, and with PG as a solvent.

Hi Lib. I agree that Librium is water soluble. When I looked around (way back when) I found variance in how much water it takes to hold Librium in solution. I couldn't figure out if I needed a glass of water or a gallon of water to dissolve my capsule. I asked my doctor about the alcohol. She said it was a trivial amount so just use it.

Also, way back when, somebody (SG57?) looked up the solubility of Librium in alcohol for me and came up with an amount. The discussion is somewhere on this thread. I bumped it up a bit to be safe and came up with 3ml of 80 proof vodka to dissolve one 5mg capsule. That's what I've been using very successfully. I think you could get away with 2ml. I think I used to use 2ml a long time but bumped it to 3ml just to be safe.

I think you could use water but, to be safe, just assume the L is not completely dissolved. Assume you have the Librium suspended in the water. There are people who have done their entire benzo tapers this way, even with benzos that don't dissolve at all in water. You just have to be smooth and quick when you make your pull. You could practice with just water: shaking, making sure there's no vortex, pulling from the center quickly, and pitching. Practice that with just water until it's easy. Once you've pitched, there's no more rush. You have your dose. It doesn't matter if the drug settles a bit. You're going to drink it all.

Have you thought about just taking 2 ml of vodka in a glass of water once to see what happens? Or take 1ml one day and wait. Then take 2ml the next day and wait. I think you'll find it doesn't do much. You could test the PG the same way. You can get it on amazon. Look for food grade PG. When I was taking liquid Xanax, the solvent was propylene glycol. I switched from tablets to pharmacy liquid made with PG with no trouble at all.

During this taper, I have learned that an important part of mental health is occupying your mind with positive thoughts. To this end, I emptied out a cupboard and have all my tapering supplies in it. When I am not mixing and measuring, everything is in the cupboard out of sight. I keep positive things in my sight (my mug of tea on its warmer, my card-making supplies, the view of my garden from my kitchen window). So I try to keep my tapering in a small mental box that is mostly closed and positive things out in view and occupying my mind. My suggestion is to come here, ask your questions, do your practicing, and then put it all away and do something enjoyable right away.

Gard 

Thank you both so much!  I was so fine with it all and now that it's getting close to tapering, I start to get nervous.....but I know you guys get that.

I will experiment with the alcohol again..I have gastritis so have to be careful.  If it acts up I may try the PG.  I'm just glad to know I won't need more than 3 mils of alcohol to have a solution. 

I know I'm making this more complicated than it is.  Thanks so much for taking the time to respond. 

I will take your advice Gardener....I've joined some distraction groups so hopefully that will help.  Good idea to keep my little chemistry lab over here outta sight. 

Happy Holidays!  BTW, Gardener, I loved your subliminal message.  I'm looking forward to some chocolate!

Yes Gard,

The subliminal is sublime.... and wise!

SS

I hope everyone has a ridiculously awesome and blessed Christmas and New Year time!! This time next year we'll all be that much more healed and headed to a better life

Hugs to all!!

Jeff

I hope everyone has a ridiculously awesome and blessed Christmas and New Year time!! This time next year we'll all be that much more healed and headed to a better life

 

Hugs to all!!

 

Jeff

:thumbsup: And a wonderful Christmas to everybody, too!

I hope everyone has a ridiculously awesome and blessed Christmas and New Year time!! This time next year we'll all be that much more healed and headed to a better life

 

Hugs to all!!

 

Jeff

 

:thumbsup: And a wonderful Christmas to everybody, too!

Hear, hear!!!  I'll raise my glass of filtered water to that and hope for the same!!!!

-RST

Hi,

I could do with some advice please. Having been unable to stabilise on my 12mg dose after a failed reinstatement I blamed lyrica and got off of that. Sheer hell. No improvements at all so started a microtaper of V least week dropping 0.04mg per day from 12mg. Today I've been hit with severe anxiety after only managing to drop to 11.72mg. I've been suffering with bad anxiety and depression since my reinstatement and am polydrugged as well. Going at such a slow rate I've been surprised that I've been hit so badly. Any suggestions anyone? Am I going too fast?

Staz