Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

Thanks Sharkey,

 

I will go 10 days at my normal dose before starting the taper.

What percent is .25ml cuts of the 1mg of K?  Can I store it for very long before it loses potency? I would like to make the next days doses the night before. 

 

Thanks for answering my questions.  I feel like a four year old asking 20 questions. 

 

Shaani

 

Hey shaani,

 

so you are cutting .0025mg a day when you remove .25ml a day.  This is .035mg every 2 weeks which is 3.5% every 2 weeks.  I stored my doses at room temp for up to 5 days with no problems.  I dont really know the science behind how long they will hold without loosing potency.  I only know my own experience.

 

sharkey

Hi Sharkey!

 

Yes, I only have .107 mg capsules to work with.

 

 

Marija

Thanks Sharkey,

 

I will go 10 days at my normal dose before starting the taper.

What percent is .25ml cuts of the 1mg of K?  Can I store it for very long before it loses potency? I would like to make the next days doses the night before. 

 

Thanks for answering my questions.  I feel like a four year old asking 20 questions. 

 

Shaani

 

Hey shaani,

 

so you are cutting .0025mg a day when you remove .25ml a day.  This is .035mg every 2 weeks which is 3.5% every 2 weeks.  I stored my doses at room temp for up to 5 days with no problems.  I dont really know the science behind how long they will hold without loosing potency.  I only know my own experience.

 

sharkey

 

They won't "lose potency".

 

Pharma-grade banzo/glycol solutions have a shelf life of 3 years.  Pharma-grade benzo/alcohol solutions have a shelf life of 90 days.

Hi Sharkey!

 

Yes, I only have .107 mg capsules to work with.

 

 

Marija

 

Ok so you need to think about how you will divide your doses.  if you only did 1 capsule then you would be reducing 1 of your 6 doses.  So what would you do when you get to 0? You would be down to 5 doses a day which may or may not cause problems.  My worry is what do you do when you get below 5 doses? 

 

In your situation you probably need to reduce then divide the doses.  In that case you need to go all liquid.  I would take your full .642mg dose and liquify by adding 2 ml of alcohol then add 98ml of water making a 100ml solution.  If you do this than each 1ml = .00642mg.  Then I would reduce 0.5ml/.00321mg a day.

 

So on day 1 of your reducing 0.5ml, you would have 95.5ml.  Divide that by 6 to get your doses for that day.  (95.5/6 = 16ml approx.)  It makes it more difficult with the 6 doses...  Does that kinda make sense? 

 

if anyone has a suggestion that makes this easier let me know please.

 

Let me know what questions you have.

sharkey

Hi Sharkey!

 

Yes, I only have .107 mg capsules to work with.

 

 

Marija

 

Ok so you need to think about how you will divide your doses.  if you only did 1 capsule then you would be reducing 1 of your 6 doses.  So what would you do when you get to 0? You would be down to 5 doses a day which may or may not cause problems.  My worry is what do you do when you get below 5 doses? 

 

In your situation you probably need to reduce then divide the doses.  In that case you need to go all liquid.  I would take your full .642mg dose and liquify by adding 2 ml of alcohol then add 98ml of water making a 100ml solution.  If you do this than each 1ml = .00642mg.  Then I would reduce 0.5ml/.00321mg a day.

 

So on day 1 of your reducing 0.5ml, you would have 95.5ml.  Divide that by 6 to get your doses for that day.  (95.5/6 = 16ml approx.)  It makes it more difficult with the 6 doses...  Does that kinda make sense? 

 

if anyone has a suggestion that makes this easier let me know please.

 

Let me know what questions you have.

sharkey

 

Since the dose comes in capsules going all liquid makes sense.  That way she can keep six doses.  I suppose they could be broken open and the powder divided to make six dry doses, but it seems much better just to liquify all.

 

Might want to consider using 128.4ml water to get the strength to .005mg/ml to keep numbers easy.

 

Attention math gurus: We now have 2 women with the same wolf avatar asking questions. Marija is still looking for help

which I mercifully did not try to give her.

 

Hey ladies,  I will be sure to read and respond to your taper questions soon.  Have a busy day at work so may be a while.  Sorry for the delay.

 

I see Marija, who is the second one gardener?

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

Hi sharkey, no it's me Sydney. You were helpful to me along with builder back in May. Congrats on your Independence! I am approaching 25% and wanting to start saving my solution to conserve pills. (I posted details). You gave me some guidance earlier. Thanks much and it's so good to hear you doing well.

Sharkey & SG,

 

I was mulling over all liquid but worried how my body would respond to the new delivery system.

I could try liquefying, for trial, 1 .107 capsules, and see how my body responds. If okay, will convert to all liquid. Would be much easier for sure. My body likes the 6 doses per day.

 

Thank you!

Sharkey & SG,

 

I was mulling over all liquid but worried how my body would respond to the new delivery system.

I could try liquefying, for trial, 1 .107 capsules, and see how my body responds. If okay, will convert to all liquid. Would be much easier for sure. My body likes the 6 doses per day.

 

Thank you!

 

I think that would be a good plan.  Maybe add a dose a day for 6 days then do all liquid at full dose for 6 days.  Did you understand my math?

 

sharkey

I have a question regarding updoses that I'm hoping people can help me with. I take tegretol and a month back the generic brand was changed. Apparently it was more potent as it sent me into strong withdrawal because tegretol interferes with benzo absorption. More of it or more potent version would can trigger w/d. I went back to my previous brand as soon as I realized what happened. That was about two weeks with no stabilizing taking place. By then I developed an infection which required a week long antibiotic. It increases the blood level of tegretol which would trigger w/d the same way the different brand did so because I was just starting stabilize I cut my 400 mg dose of tegretol to 300 mg thinking it would make up for the difference. When the medication was done ten days later I started back at my 400 mg dose and my body in the last four days seems to now be in strong w/d again. All of this started back around may 22 and I've been trying to get stable since. I thought I was thursday because I was feeling very relaxed but I now suspect that was due to an updose effect of being on less tegretol which allowed my body to feel more K.

 

Right now, I'm debating on just cutting my tegretol back to 300mg for a few reason. 1) it very well might stabilize me since I really don't know how long it's going to take for me to stabilize out of this w/d which feels stronger than any cut I've made in a while. 2) I partly feel like less tegretol in my system is probably just better. I was on 300mg some years ago with no issues but much have bumped it up when I was in acute w/d around 2012 (which definitely made that worse).

 

The one thing about cutting the tegretol that I'm trying to assess is that this will effectively be a permanent updose because it will mean more K is absorbed. I have no idea how much more K but it's safe to say more than 5% due to the w/d I experience. My taper has been consistently downward or holding except for I think once or twice I updosed a bit into a cut when I felt it was too much as w/d was starting (maybe about 1% both times). I could go for 350mg to split the difference but pill cutting is never really accurate anyway which another concern about going to 300mg.  The w/d I feel is pretty strong w/ a myriad of symptoms I never get during my cuts. I'm five days into it after 10 of an updose. I was so unstable earlier that I was sure I was going to cut the tegretol. I'm a bit calmer now. I don't like the idea of anything that could cause an updose but I feel like I am yoyoing and none of it has to do with my actual taper.

 

Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

Right now I wonder if just riding it out is best as much as I feel like a mess. I also might end up taking another medication that might interfere with tegretol again when tests come back in a few days so that's another concern.

I have a question regarding updoses that I'm hoping people can help me with. I take tegretol and a month back the generic brand was changed. Apparently it was more potent as it sent me into strong withdrawal because tegretol interferes with benzo absorption. More of it or more potent version would can trigger w/d. I went back to my previous brand as soon as I realized what happened. That was about two weeks with no stabilizing taking place. By then I developed an infection which required a week long antibiotic. It increases the blood level of tegretol which would trigger w/d the same way the different brand did so because I was just starting stabilize I cut my 400 mg dose of tegretol to 300 mg thinking it would make up for the difference. When the medication was done ten days later I started back at my 400 mg dose and my body in the last four days seems to now be in strong w/d again. All of this started back around may 22 and I've been trying to get stable since. I thought I was thursday because I was feeling very relaxed but I now suspect that was due to an updose effect of being on less tegretol which allowed my body to feel more K.

 

Right now, I'm debating on just cutting my tegretol back to 300mg for a few reason. 1) it very well might stabilize me since I really don't know how long it's going to take for me to stabilize out of this w/d which feels stronger than any cut I've made in a while. 2) I partly feel like less tegretol in my system is probably just better. I was on 300mg some years ago with no issues but much have bumped it up when I was in acute w/d around 2012 (which definitely made that worse).

 

The one thing about cutting the tegretol that I'm trying to assess is that this will effectively be a permanent updose because it will mean more K is absorbed. I have no idea how much more K but it's safe to say more than 5% due to the w/d I experience. My taper has been consistently downward or holding except for I think once or twice I updosed a bit into a cut when I felt it was too much as w/d was starting (maybe about 1% both times). I could go for 350mg to split the difference but pill cutting is never really accurate anyway which another concern about going to 300mg.  The w/d I feel is pretty strong w/ a myriad of symptoms I never get during my cuts. I'm five days into it after 10 of an updose. I was so unstable earlier that I was sure I was going to cut the tegretol. I'm a bit calmer now. I don't like the idea of anything that could cause an updose but I feel like I am yoyoing and none of it has to do with my actual taper.

 

Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

mfate,

 

I dont know about tegretol so dont feel comfortable making a suggestion on what you should do with reducing it.  As far as the K goes, I would just reccommend that you try to keep your dose consistent.  The back and forth can be bad for WD symptoms and can affect your taper.  So you want to find a even daily dose and slowing reduce from there.

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

The K is stable. I have no cut in several days and that was only down to 1.07 from 1.08 mg. I have been holding the K since May while all of this was going on. I might actually be best to updose the K to  1.08 again since it's only been about 4 or 5 days. That could mitigate some of what is happening and allow me to stabilize. Yeah, that's probably the best option out of everything.

I realize now that for 14+ years I experienced interdose w/d everyday. I took my Xanax 1-2 times and sometimes 3 times a day. As a result my system seems to be highly sensitive to even the smallest changes. (Possible kindling effect? not really sure what that entails) Anyway, I am now micro-tapering every other day, am at .43mg Xanax per 24 hrs (divided in 3 doses) It seems every time I cut the next day I get sweats, insomnia, w/d symptoms in general. Has anyone else been this sensitive? I know micro tapering has been much less harsh than cut and hold, but I am surprised to get symptoms. Thanks, Rose

I got all the supplies and am ready to start liquid titration. I want to do a week of liquid titration at my normal dose then daily micro taper. I have a couple questions. Should I put my .5 mg Klonopin tablet in the 100 mL graduated cylinder then add 2 mL 80 proof vodka and let it dissolve like that for a while then add enough water to get to 100 mL? Then drink straight from the graduated cylinder? How long should the tablet take to dissolve in the alcohol?

I got all the supplies and am ready to start liquid titration. I want to do a week of liquid titration at my normal dose then daily micro taper. I have a couple questions. Should I put my .5 mg Klonopin tablet in the 100 mL graduated cylinder then add 2 mL 80 proof vodka and let it dissolve like that for a while then add enough water to get to 100 mL? Then drink straight from the graduated cylinder? How long should the tablet take to dissolve in the alcohol?

 

Hi Pin,

 

It will work better if you measure 2 mL of vodka into a jar with the pill. After the pill dissolves,  measure out 98 mL of water using the graduated cylinder and add to the jar. Give it a good swirl before drinking your dose.

 

Anne

I got all the supplies and am ready to start liquid titration. I want to do a week of liquid titration at my normal dose then daily micro taper. I have a couple questions. Should I put my .5 mg Klonopin tablet in the 100 mL graduated cylinder then add 2 mL 80 proof vodka and let it dissolve like that for a while then add enough water to get to 100 mL? Then drink straight from the graduated cylinder? How long should the tablet take to dissolve in the alcohol?

 

Hi Pin,

 

It will work better if you measure 2 mL of vodka into a jar with the pill. After the pill dissolves,  measure out 98 mL of water using the graduated cylinder and add to the jar. Give it a good swirl before drinking your dose.

 

Anne

 

:thumbsup:

What is a good-sized jar to use? I have an empty salsa jar but I think it's too big.

What is a good-sized jar to use? I have an empty salsa jar but I think it's too big.

 

I'll throw in my 2 cents worth. I'm currently using a .125 mg disintegrating tablet for my tapering. My glass jar is small and narrow,  probably 1/4 the size of a salsa jar. Since my tablet is small and dissolves fast and my jar is small, I only need 1 ml of vodka. Then I add my water.

I realize now that for 14+ years I experienced interdose w/d everyday. I took my Xanax 1-2 times and sometimes 3 times a day. As a result my system seems to be highly sensitive to even the smallest changes. (Possible kindling effect? not really sure what that entails) Anyway, I am now micro-tapering every other day, am at .43mg Xanax per 24 hrs (divided in 3 doses) It seems every time I cut the next day I get sweats, insomnia, w/d symptoms in general. Has anyone else been this sensitive? I know micro tapering has been much less harsh than cut and hold, but I am surprised to get symptoms. Thanks, Rose

 

Hi Rose,

 

How much are you reducing every other day?  How long have you been micro-tapering? 

I got all the supplies and am ready to start liquid titration. I want to do a week of liquid titration at my normal dose then daily micro taper. I have a couple questions. Should I put my .5 mg Klonopin tablet in the 100 mL graduated cylinder then add 2 mL 80 proof vodka and let it dissolve like that for a while then add enough water to get to 100 mL? Then drink straight from the graduated cylinder? How long should the tablet take to dissolve in the alcohol?

 

Hi Pin,

 

It will work better if you measure 2 mL of vodka into a jar with the pill. After the pill dissolves,  measure out 98 mL of water using the graduated cylinder and add to the jar. Give it a good swirl before drinking your dose.

 

Anne

 

:thumbsup:

 

Agree with anne and builder.  The pill dissolves quick.  15 minutes tops.  I always just left mine overnight.

Hello MT Buddies,

 

Just a little update:  I am on day 3 of my switch to liquid at my normal dose.  Today I appear to be adjusting to the change better.  Just had a bit of irritability and anxiety but I am going to have to find a better way to deal with it because I really want to be successful in my taper.  I want the old me back.

 

Welcome to all the newbies.  I am a newbie too.

 

Thank you all for your continued info and support.  I could not do this without you.

 

With gratitude,

doodle dog

 

 

Aaaagh! My favorite "avatar" on Benzo Buddies (Sharkey hugging his wife) has disappeared and been replaced by what appears to be a ROFL demo!!! 

 

 

What is a good-sized jar to use? I have an empty salsa jar but I think it's too big.

 

I use this because I like the wider top and that it blocks light. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006QNILTW?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00

 

I only make 50ml of dilution at a time and this jar has plenty of extra room so I don't worry about spills, yet isn't so deep that I can't pull with a syringe from it easily. I was originally using a tall, narrow jar I had in my cupboard, but found it difficult to get to the bottom with my syringe.

Aaaagh! My favorite "avatar" on Benzo Buddies (Sharkey hugging his wife) has disappeared and been replaced by what appears to be a ROFL demo!!! 

 

Hello Gardener,

 

I noticed that too.  I will miss that sweet pic; however,  I guess that since he is now benzo free that he wants to roll on the floor with laughter.

 

doodle dog

Gardener- thanks a lot for that link. I ordered that jar. 

Hello MT Buddies,

 

Just a little update:  I am on day 3 of my switch to liquid at my normal dose.  Today I appear to be adjusting to the change better.  Just had a bit of irritability and anxiety but I am going to have to find a better way to deal with it because I really want to be successful in my taper.  I want the old me back.

 

Welcome to all the newbies.  I am a newbie too.

 

Thank you all for your continued info and support.  I could not do this without you.

 

With gratitude,

doodle dog

 

Hey Doodle!

I'm so glad to read that.

During my taper I had lots of anxiety and irritability . With acceptance of things just being like that for a while ( which didn't come in a day ) , things got better and I agree it's important we find other ways to deal with that. Which isn't always easy, since most of this , for me, was chemically induced.

I have not been an angry person at all before this journey but boy.... I had some rages on this junk.

 

What helped me much was guided meditations I found on YouTube. Bellaruth Naperstek has some nice calming guided imagery ones .

Some people are also greatly helped with Tapping.

Maybe these are things that'll work for you.

 

I hear you on wanting the old you back. I don't think I'll ever be the same , and I don't think I could be. But I find myself back little by little and in ways I feel like a better person because of it.

So much has happened , I'll never take day to day things for granted anymore.