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By the way, Moodle. I had a reaction to MRI dye, too. it was hellish. I almost peed myself right on the table and had a huge panic attack.

:thumbsup:

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By the way, Moodle. I had a reaction to MRI dye, too. it was hellish. I almost peed myself right on the table and had a huge panic attack.

:thumbsup:

 

Yes, it awful. I'm sorry you had to go through that. It when my vertigo started and I got put on benzo's for anxiety. Little did I know.. It was " just" the dye.

 

Are you planning on titrating your benzo or get a prescription for liquid Ativan ?

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Thanks for starting this support thread. Sharkey, you are almost there!!  Congratulations.

 

I am doing a water titration to taper from Ativan. I went through a successful taper back in 2007 using this method. Like Ben, I also got all of my information from the old yahoo benzo support group. The titration spreadsheets and instructions on how to prepare daily dosages can still be downloaded from the site. I only dose three times a day, and that seems to be enough for me. 

 

 

 

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Moodle,

 

one of my biggest issues is the dizziness vertigo that really flared up during this taper because I went too darn fast. but lesson learned. I'm not quite sure if my doc will prescribe liquid benzos. I guess I will see. but i'll likely just try the titration methods.

 

and nice to hear your story, Anne. that you were able to do it before and are doing it again. It sure gives me hope I can make it through. sometimes it feels endless. :sick::smitten:

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sounds like you are doing well, Clona. and thanks, Moodle. it's amazing how some nice feedback can bring your spirits up and give you some hope :-)

 

wecan16

 

Hi Wecan, I love your name  :smitten: I am not doing perfect but this is a journey like no other in my life, so better to enjoy windows when we can and laughing at myself is a field in which I am becoming an expert due to this crazy taper  :D

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hehe. true. laughing at ourselves is a must. I have become a walking cog fog machine since this taper started. my fiancé and I laugh at me all the time.

 

good luck to everyone. I wish I could put my arms around you all. thank you so much for the warmth. it means so much, :smitten:

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Ugh, I used to be so dizzy that I ran into my furniture and had so many bruises...

When I had to go to the hospital ( for non benzo procedure ) the doctor and the nurse exchanges some suspicious glances. :laugh:

 

I can laugh about it too, looking back.

 

 

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Wow you guys are awesome!  This is exactly what I had in mind for this thread.  Good information and a fun positive vibe!!  Thanks everyone!

 

Welcome anne3266!

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

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Has your dizziness mostly resolved, Moodle? did it flare up bad during your taper?

 

No , not gone. It's my most persistent symptom. After I had this reaction to the dye , the dizziness hit and hasn't been gone since then.

It's not as bad as it was before. But when it hits, it hits.

I don't drive most days and when I do, only on side roads. I can't handle the highway.

 

I do notice that, under stress, it flares up big time and I'm puking most of the day. Like yesterday.

 

It's been there pretty much every day but more in the back ground on lower doses. I had to worse on Ativan. But I can't tell for sure that's the difference in benzo or if it was Only because I cut too quick.

 

There are some hours ( and I've had a day here and there) where I found it gone. But it always lingers. When things are loud, people talk too fast or yell at me or something like that, the first thing I feel is dizziness. Also where there are lots of people.

 

I don't know.. I hope when this is done, the vertigo will go too. It stops me from socializing. I alwys have to cancel.

When it is bad I just can't bear to listen to anyone and it also makes me feel foggy.

I try to do some breathing exercises. And also I think it partially comes from my neck. It's always contracted when I wake up.

 

So, yeah... That... :)

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The variation in symptoms is crazy.  I get zero dizziness but when I get anxious my arms and legs tingle like they are waking up from sleep.  Like when you sit on your hand too long.  That has gotten a lot better but was very bad at the beginning of my taper.
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It was a great idea to start this thread, Sharky. Sometimes it can get overwhelming on the BIG BOARD and to have a nice little thread dealing with those who are microtapering makes it feel more cozy and digestible.

 

Ugg, sorry to hear this is so persistent, Moodle. The vestibular system is soo affected by benzos, even if we had underlyning issues before the benzos, the benzos have really prevented it from healing well.

 

I bet it can heal over time. I've also heard things like chiropractic and accupuntcure can help a lot with vertigo etc. I do think it has a lot to do with our tense muscles back there. if we could somehow relax them, there would be more blood flow to that area.

 

My mom takes a homeopathic remedy called Vertigoheel. It works really well for her. It doesn't work very well for me. But it could be worth a try.

 

also sharky, I get those tingles too. its so crazy how benzos can affect the body. we will all heal in time.

 

Have a good night folks, I will check in tomorrow  :smitten:

 

Love Wecan16

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The variation in symptoms is crazy.  I get zero dizziness but when I get anxious my arms and legs tingle like they are waking up from sleep.  Like when you sit on your hand too long.  That has gotten a lot better but was very bad at the beginning of my taper.

 

Oh I had that too!

That went away, though but had it for months.

It seems to all hit under stress and return during anxiety...

Glad it's gotten better!

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What a nice thread!  :smitten:

I can relate to very tiny pieces of pill, I got already small plastic containers for my future low doses. I will put the container on the scale, then I will tare the scale to get zero weight, then I am going to put a tiny filed piece previously weighed at the closer, but a bit lower, required weight.

Then I plan to use a very tiny spatula or a little spoon to adjust precisely the weight using powders.

After that I am going to identify the containers by writting the weight on them, this is the ID I always use, 1, 2, 3...are not good numbers for me, especially if having Cog fog  :D

After taking the dose I am going to make sure that no powder is in the container by adding water at the end several times and drink the washing water every time  :D

At lowest and ridiculous doses...I am going all the way to zero  :idiot:...I mean I am going to go as far as 0.0028 or 0.0026 mg :laugh::D  :idiot: I am going to use a couple of agglomerates selected at random from the powder of a full pill.

I know, I am getting nuts  :laugh:

 

Clona,

 

Your scientist is showing!  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

Right there with you,

Bennie

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It was a great idea to start this thread, Sharky. Sometimes it can get overwhelming on the BIG BOARD and to have a nice little thread dealing with those who are microtapering makes it feel more cozy and digestible.

 

Ugg, sorry to hear this is so persistent, Moodle. The vestibular system is soo affected by benzos, even if we had underlyning issues before the benzos, the benzos have really prevented it from healing well.

 

I bet it can heal over time. I've also heard things like chiropractic and accupuntcure can help a lot with vertigo etc. I do think it has a lot to do with our tense muscles back there. if we could somehow relax them, there would be more blood flow to that area.

 

My mom takes a homeopathic remedy called Vertigoheel. It works really well for her. It doesn't work very well for me. But it could be worth a try.

 

also sharky, I get those tingles too. its so crazy how benzos can affect the body. we will all heal in time.

 

Have a good night folks, I will check in tomorrow  :smitten:

 

Love Wecan16

 

Oh I'm goin to check that out!

Thank you for the tip.

 

I was at the doctors yesterday and she wants to test for Ménière's disease ( imbalance /ears stuff) which is not actually a test, for as far as I understand it, but more ruling out of everything else.

Guess what the med is that they " treat" this with? Right! Good old Ativan!

:idiot:

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can I asked a much needed question? Ive been reading so much info and trying to take it in.

 

I tapered too fast and now my head is so panicky, it's hard to comprehend stuff.

 

can someone tell me, in their opinion, how often one should dose a short acting benzo like Ativan, to avoid interdose withdrawls.

 

I am doing to switch over to microtapering, but I wanted to know about how often to dose Ativan daily. ty so much.

:thumbsup:

 

When my pdoc gave me a scrip for ativan, she said I would need to take it every 6 hours.

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Quote From The Ashton Manual:

 

Updosing during withdrawal? Some people hit a "sticky patch" during the course of benzodiazepine withdrawal. In many cases, staying on the same dose for a longer period (not more than a few weeks) before resuming the withdrawal schedule allows them to overcome this obstacle. However, increasing the dose until a longed-for plateau of 'stability' arrives is not a good strategy. The truth is that one never 'stabilises' on a given dose of benzodiazepine. The dose may be stable but withdrawal symptoms are not. It is better to grit one's teeth and continue the withdrawal. True recovery cannot really start until the drug is out of the system.

 

I want to talk about this last line that I highlighted.  I think this line needs some interpretation from a daily cut prospective.  From my personal experience with tapering and what i have read from other members who have completed their daily taper, your body and mind do heal during the process of tapering! 

 

The statement is true to a degree.  The brain will heal after each cut and with a slow daily taper will help ease the strain on the physical healing process.  ALSO, Psychologically we learn how to deal with things as we do a slow taper and coping skills during the process which help when the benzo is gone completely. 

 

Wanted to share this I read on a blog post today, i think it is a great analogy:

"I have an analogy of benzo withdrawal to someone being in a wheelchair for years.  Say a person who needed a wheelchair for a few weeks was kept in that wheelchair, with no walking allowed, for ten years.  If he was suddenly left w/o a wheelchair (c/t) he would literally be on the floor, in very great pain just trying to walk and get around.  It would take a long time to build up his muscles with no help.  If that person was able to gradually get out of the wheelchair every day to build up muscles (slow taper) he would have a difficult, but less painful time."

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

 

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Thanks for that post .

 

I accidentally have messed up my doses once or twice when I took my ( the higher) evening dose in the morning, by accident. And then took my normal dose that evening ,too.

I actually felt extra crappy because of it ( well, at least I think that was it). Those were one time updose, I guess.

 

I e never updosed as to stay on a higher dose again but have been at the brink of it and contemplated it more times than I can count. Just really determined and always preferred to hold than to go back up. I just ride it out, hard as it has been at times but it always passes again. Of course we forget that,when it hits.

Even through some REALLY stressful events, I've cut. Slower, but still... The only way out is through.

And I pat myself on the back for that today.

 

I really do feel that my body and mind are healing through this taper, too. I am in much better shape than at the start of my taper. Now, of course that is because there is less med in me.

 

I also don't feel that there is one stable dose or a point where you're stable. I still go up and down, mostly emotionally. Which affects my body again.

I think that might not heal till I'm all the way off and addressing some other issues that I got access to due to this process.

We are being thrown back into our selves and it's a very lonely process.

 

Yes, I like the analogy. It's kind of our brains learning to " walk" again. It needs time and calm to get there. Won't happen under stressful situations and I think environment has a lot to do with it for so many of us here.

 

Thank, Sharkey

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[a5...]

Quote From The Ashton Manual:

 

Updosing during withdrawal? Some people hit a "sticky patch" during the course of benzodiazepine withdrawal. In many cases, staying on the same dose for a longer period (not more than a few weeks) before resuming the withdrawal schedule allows them to overcome this obstacle. However, increasing the dose until a longed-for plateau of 'stability' arrives is not a good strategy. The truth is that one never 'stabilises' on a given dose of benzodiazepine. The dose may be stable but withdrawal symptoms are not. It is better to grit one's teeth and continue the withdrawal. True recovery cannot really start until the drug is out of the system.

 

I want to talk about this last line that I highlighted.  I think this line needs some interpretation from a daily cut prospective.  From my personal experience with tapering and what i have read from other members who have completed their daily taper, your body and mind do heal during the process of tapering! 

 

The statement is true to a degree.  The brain will heal after each cut and with a slow daily taper will help ease the strain on the physical healing process.  ALSO, Psychologically we learn how to deal with things as we do a slow taper and coping skills during the process which help when the benzo is gone completely. 

 

 

Hey sharkey,

 

I think the clue lays in the wording used.. the first statementis speaking about recovery, the other about healing.  In a medical context those are two different states entirely, so while we're healing we're not recovered.  Sure, some repairs will occurr, too, but not until we've got the last bit of the drug out of our system does the true recovery from the drug's effects/damage AND the emotional/psychological trauma of the withdrawal process AND our lives that nd relationships that were destabilised during daily use.

 

How I read it is that we can heal during our withdrawals, even stressful ones in not ideal environments (which for me was the case) but the single-most significant factor getting myself off of them, twice, was my attitude.

 

Based on my own and many others successful cessation from poly-drug-use while under extremely difficult  & stressful circumstances, for some people it can actually be done at any time, if our attitude says it can, and there does seem to be a very high proportion of people who made it that found adopting a better attitude to their lives helped their withdrawals significantly, too.  It's just as easy to talk a problem down as it to blow it out of all proportion.

 

Obviously some people will say attitude is not relevant and it's all about the active metablite in the molecule of a drug, but the existence and proven effectiveness of the placebo pill automatically crushes that argument and proves that positive states of belief, attitude, mental focus, are all just as important if not more so than any other method of cessation.

 

 

 

What I wonder is this.. what would happen if a person not experienced with a benzo cessation is only given the worst-case-scenario for information before they even started their taper.. is it possible that they may have now unwittingly amplified their responses to slant more towards the negative side than the positive?

 

In other words, is it possible that a sort of.. negative-placebo-effect could occur if someone gets only one side of the debate, thus worsening their subjective symptoms many times over during their withdrawal?

 

What do you think, sharkey?  I wonder about this a lot.

 

 

Good healing man,

 

 

J :)

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Thanks for that post .

 

I accidentally have messed up my doses once or twice when I took my ( the higher) evening dose in the morning, by accident. And then took my normal dose that evening ,too.

I actually felt extra crappy because of it ( well, at least I think that was it). Those were one time updose, I guess.

 

I e never updosed as to stay on a higher dose again but have been at the brink of it and contemplated it more times than I can count. Just really determined and always preferred to hold than to go back up. I just ride it out, hard as it has been at times but it always passes again. Of course we forget that,when it hits.

Even through some REALLY stressful events, I've cut. Slower, but still... The only way out is through.

And I pat myself on the back for that today.

 

I really do feel that my body and mind are healing through this taper, too. I am in much better shape than at the start of my taper. Now, of course that is because there is less med in me.

 

I also don't feel that there is one stable dose or a point where you're stable. I still go up and down, mostly emotionally. Which affects my body again.

I think that might not heal till I'm all the way off and addressing some other issues that I got access to due to this process.

We are being thrown back into our selves and it's a very lonely process.

 

Yes, I like the analogy. It's kind of our brains learning to " walk" again. It needs time and calm to get there. Won't happen under stressful situations and I think environment has a lot to do with it for so many of us here.

 

Thank, Sharkey

 

Thanks Moodle!

 

I believe that is just life.  I work with a lady who is 70 years old and still works like she is in her 30s.  I talked to her when i was having a bad day and she told me, "I have highs and lows all the time, but you will never know that because i keep the same attitude through it.  I ride the lows and enjoy the highs."  I think this will come regardless if we on benzos or not.  The benzo definitely magnifies the effect but it is important to know that you will have good days and bads before, during, and after this process.

 

sharkey

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Ok, so I hope this is the right place to ask about my taper. I need help with a new schedule. Was tapering at 2 1/2 percent a week from my starting pill of .50, which weighs between .169 and .170.

From the beginning I was taking .25 in the am and .25 in the pm. I am now down 20% which means I take .068 am and .068 pm measured on the gram scale. If I want to start doing the .001 daily cut, can someone please help me work out a schedule?

Thanks, New Girl

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Hi Sharkey,

 

Great thread and supportive people here!  Is there a way to point me (and others) to sites where there is a clear description on how to do a liquid taper - either with milk or alcohol?  I know there are links floating around, but I just wondered if you knew of the ones that best described the process -

 

Thanks!

 

Ellen

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Hey sharkey,

 

I think the clue lays in the wording used.. the first statementis speaking about recovery, the other about healing.  In a medical context those are two different states entirely, so while we're healing we're not recovered.  Sure, some repairs will occurr, too, but not until we've got the last bit of the drug out of our system does the true recovery from the drug's effects/damage AND the emotional/psychological trauma of the withdrawal process AND our lives that nd relationships that were destabilised during daily use.

 

How I read it is that we can heal during our withdrawals, even stressful ones in not ideal environments (which for me was the case) but the single-most significant factor getting myself off of them, twice, was my attitude.

 

Based on my own and many others successful cessation from poly-drug-use while under extremely difficult  & stressful circumstances, for some people it can actually be done at any time, if our attitude says it can, and there does seem to be a very high proportion of people who made it that found adopting a better attitude to their lives helped their withdrawals significantly, too.  It's just as easy to talk a problem down as it to blow it out of all proportion.

 

Obviously some people will say attitude is not relevant and it's all about the active metablite in the molecule of a drug, but the existence and proven effectiveness of the placebo pill automatically crushes that argument and proves that positive states of belief, attitude, mental focus, are all just as important if not more so than any other method of cessation.

 

 

 

What I wonder is this.. what would happen if a person not experienced with a benzo cessation is only given the wort-case-scenario for information before they even started their taper.. is it possible that they may have now unwittingly amplified their responses to slant more towards the negative side than the positive?

 

In other words, is it possible that a sort of.. negative-placebo-effect could occur if someone gets only one side of the debate, thus worsening their subjective symptoms many times over during their withdrawal?

 

What do you think, sharkey?  I wonder about this a lot.

 

 

Good healing man,

 

 

J :)

 

I totally agree with you!  the reason i wanted to talk about this post is because of that negative placebo effect.  I think people read that line and say , "I should just CT if im not gonna start healing until im done tapering"  which is wrong.  Some people naturally assume the worst.

 

When i first got on BB and started reading, it scared me to death.  It was when I tried to taper the first time and failed.  I think it was my state of mind, all I saw was the negative and starting thinking catastrophic thoughts.  I didn't return to BB until i decided I wanted to try to taper again and only read replies to my posts so i wouldn't have the read the negative stuff.    After some good results and finding some positive posts and threads.  I started to see more positive.

 

That has been my goal on this forum is to try to push the positive as much as possible to give people the hope they need to get through this.  I know that my success during my taper has been largely do to my change in attitude and a move from negative to positive mentally.

 

Thanks for your post!

sharkey

 

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Ok, so I hope this is the right place to ask about my taper. I need help with a new schedule. Was tapering at 2 1/2 percent a week from my starting pill of .50, which weighs between .169 and .170.

From the beginning I was taking .25 in the am and .25 in the pm. I am now down 20% which means I take .068 am and .068 pm measured on the gram scale. If I want to start doing the .001 daily cut, can someone please help me work out a schedule?

Thanks, New Girl

 

Hey New Girl welcome to the group!  We have some experienced dry cutters here.  Not sure they are on right now but no doubt you will get a response.

 

sharkey

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Hi Sharkey,

 

Great thread and supportive people here!  Is there a way to point me (and others) to sites where there is a clear description on how to do a liquid taper - either with milk or alcohol?  I know there are links floating around, but I just wondered if you knew of the ones that best described the process -

 

Thanks!

 

Ellen

 

Hey ellen and welcome to the group!

 

You can start reading about it here  http://benzosupport.org/water_titration.htm

 

if you think you want to try it, let me know. I can help you with a plan just for you :)

 

sharkey

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