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Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group


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I have read a lot on this forum about tapering and the different methods.  Also have followed peoples results after some time with different methods.  Hands down I see more success and the least amount of symptoms when I read about daily micro tapering.

 

Im talking about Liquid Titration and Daily Micro Cutting with a Gram Scale. 

 

It seems to be the way to go.  The theory is that when you cut a very small amount each day, you give your body a chance to adjust on a daily basis, instead of sending your body and mind into shock every 2 weeks. 

 

Example:  Say you are taking a 1mg pill a day. You want to taper at a rate of 10% or 0.1 mg every 2 weeks.  Instead of reducing 10% or 0.1mg every 14 days.  You simple reduce at a rate of 0.714% or 0.007 mg a day. 

 

In the example, you are reducing at the same rate but just taking a cut everyday. 

 

I guess I want the discussion opened to talk about the advantages of this method over the cut and hold.

 

***Please note:  I have nothing against cut and hold, it definitely works for a lot of people.  The Ashton Manual and this forum is the reason I have made it this far.***

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

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Hi Sharkey, I have done cut and hold at the begining of my taper and it worked well for a while. Now I am doing daily microtaper and this method is smoother. The right thing for me at low dose.

I wrote an analogy last November, cut and hold feels like going down the stairs, so we need to know the height of the step and the holding period. Daily microtaper is like going down using a ramp, we need only to find the right angle of the ramp.

I am impressed by your progress, Congratulations!

Clona  :)

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Hello ,

Good idea, this thread.

I'm doing a daily liquid taper becaue I could not do cut and hold.

I would cut and then feel it some days later and needed a LOT of time to recover from it.

The liquid has been a blessing for me.

 

I use a liquid pre-made by a compound pharmacy. It's Valium powder in organic almond oil.

Have reduced 0.05 mgr a day with holds every 4th day or so, from about 13 mgr down to now, at 1.30.

This means it took me somewhere between 14-18 days to cut half a miligram.

 

I just pull up the liquid with a syringe and squirt into my mouth what I need. As opposed to titrating where people pull out what they reduce( and toss) and drink the rest.

 

0.5 mgr is 1 ml for my solution ( 2:1) and so, if I start with 2.5 mgr in pills, I then take 2 mgr and then 1 ml ( 0.5 mgr ) in liquid.

The next day I take 0.9 ml, next day 0.8 etc.

 

I'm not really ever symptom free but by FAR not as slammed hard as I used to be with a dry cut.

For me that was horror.

This allows me to not get hit AS hard in one loud bang. But I get all sorts of , mostly tolerabe , symptoms .

 

Anyway. That.  ;D

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I have read a lot on this forum about tapering and the different methods.  Also have followed peoples results after some time with different methods.  Hands down I see more success and the least amount of symptoms when I read about daily micro tapering.

 

Im talking about Liquid Titration and Daily Micro Cutting with a Gram Scale. 

 

It seems to be the way to go.  The theory is that when you cut a very small amount each day, you give your body a chance to adjust on a daily basis, instead of sending your body and mind into shock every 2 weeks. 

 

Example:  Say you are taking a 1mg pill a day. You want to taper at a rate of 10% or 0.1 mg every 2 weeks.  Instead of reducing 10% or 0.1mg every 14 days.  You simple reduce at a rate of 0.714% or 0.007 mg a day. 

 

In the example, you are reducing at the same rate but just taking a cut everyday. 

 

I guess I want the discussion opened to talk about the advantages of this method over the cut and hold.

 

***Please note:  I have nothing against cut and hold, it definitely works for a lot of people.  The Ashton Manual and this forum is the reason I have made it this far.***

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

  This is a valuable thread.  I'll add some stuff soon.
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Clona,  you have made some great progress.  I started with cut and hold also and then switched to liquid.  Thanks for sharing your method.

 

Moodle, very interesting solution.  I like it.  Good alternative for people who don't want to use milk or alcohol. Thank you also.

 

Builder,  thanks for stopping by.  Always enjoy your input.

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

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Hey All:

 

Good start for the support group so far!  I have 3 people who use titration.  And one person who is using micro-cutting.  So glad to have both methods in one place.  Now hopefully we will get some people with questions.

 

I am currently at 0.08mg a day and if i don't have to hold, I will be done with my taper in 32 days!  Cant wait for that day to get here.  No real symptoms today just some morning anxiety which i was able to work through.  Will check back in soon!

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

 

 

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Hi there everyone!! Hey Clona!!  :smitten:

 

I have also switched to a daily-dry-cutting method from the cut and hold which I believe not only to stress the body but also to add psychological pressure when the cut "is due"...

 

This method has allowed me to get from 3mg of K to 2.37mg (my dose today) in less than two months without suffering from intense symptoms  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

Lately, I did feel I was in a wave though but it may be external pressure I am reacting to, not directly the taper... hard to tell.

 

I don't know whether the "speed" from the Ashton manual is directly transferable to daily-cutting methods, but I do think it sets the speed limit!!

In my case, if I keep going at this rate/day, I will get to 2mg by ~5% cut in 10 days. Not sure how long I can sustain this rate in practice. We will see!

 

My motto is definitely to go slow and smooth! It's better to get to the finish line in one piece... or rather, in good shape!  :thumbsup: ...and Live while you taper!!!!

 

Best wishes to all  :smitten:

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Example:  Say you are taking a 1mg pill a day. You want to taper at a rate of 10% or 0.1 mg every 2 weeks.  Instead of reducing 10% or 0.1mg every 14 days.  You simple reduce at a rate of 0.714% or 0.007 mg a day. 

 

In the example, you are reducing at the same rate but just taking a cut everyday. 

 

Hi Sharkey and all,

 

Good thread.

 

I'm doing micro taper dry cutting of Klonopin with scale. And the following pertains to that.

 

I think that using a 10% cut rate over 14 days works for daily micro tapering at higher daily dosages— up to a point. Eventually, .007 mg per day is too much.

 

Many people, myself included, hit the wall around .60 to .50 mg daily dose. Thereafter, the consistent daily cut need to be smaller because the percentage rate of taper is increasing—or else we'd never get off. At that point .0029 mg is generally accepted to be a more reasonable daily cut, equal to .001 g, the lowest our scale can measure. Some people cut .001 g daily for 10 out of 14 days, or any variation that works. This is based on the typical average weight of .170 g for a .50 mg Klonopin pill. If you were using a larger sized pill, say 1 mg, that .001 g cut is twice as potent. One must calculate a taper based on gram weight average for the pill size they are using.

 

I cannot tolerate daily cutting, but cut every other day. And that's one of the key benefits of MT: adjust as you go to make for a tolerable taper. There's so much more that can be said about MT. I'll see what others have to say. But it gave me my life back. Instead of being bedridden, I went to being 70% functional. More windows, less waves.

 

Liquid titration allows even more finely-tuned cuts, but I prefer not to deal with liquid and refrigeration issues. I'm also lactose intolerant and that's another hurdle I didn't want to get over, as alcohol in even the tiniest amounts sends my CNS whirling. But it works for many.

 

May everyone find what works best for them, and heal!

Bennie

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Hi Bennie  :smitten:

 

Congratulations on your progress!

 

adjust as you go to make for a tolerable taper.

 

Exactly!! MT allows for a lot of flexibility, hence keeping symptoms under control  :thumbsup:

 

Being on a high-dose still, I am taking two 0.5mg pills plus the cut piece of another 0.5 tablet per dose. I don't know though how this will work out when I get close to 2mg for instance, the "cut piece" will be so tiny... but I don't want to make a "step" as Clona calls it.

Same dilemma applies to people getting off their benzo with dry cutting I guess.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

 

Good Luck with your tapers! And be well!

Julz xx 

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I am using the micro taper - dry cutting .001 every day off my pill weight of klonopin of .172.  I have not had to hold at all for the last few weeks - I just cut the .001 every day.  If the anxiety/GI issues ramp up I will slow it down.  I did cut and hold until I was down to around .625 mg of klonopin and hit a brick wall - bed ridden and in agony.  Started the daily cutting and still had many s/x but they were bearable

(and I was doing the holds as well) but it allowed me to keep cutting, where the cut and hold was agony.  Now my body seems to have adjusted to the daily cuts.  I thank everyone here who did the math for me and told me how to do it - Clona, SG, Bennie and Ninja.  Though we are all so different I think the slow, steady daily taper helps our bodies adjust and knowing that you can adjust day to day takes the worry out of the 'cut' day and the 'hit' day.  I am glad you started this support group.

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Being on a high-dose still, I am taking two 0.5mg pills plus the cut piece of another 0.5 tablet per dose. I don't know though how this will work out when I get close to 2mg for instance, the "cut piece" will be so tiny... but I don't want to make a "step" as Clona calls it.

 

Same dilemma applies to people getting off their benzo with dry cutting I guess.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

 

Hey Julz!

 

There's a solution for avoiding that tiny piece of pill. Hopefully you have saved extra pieces of pill in an airtight container. Just put a total of 2.0 mg pieces—or whatever you need the dose to be—into the scale, measuring by grams. Folks should know if they don't already, the smaller the whole pill increment, the larger the pieces will be. This is a good thing.

 

Having said that....you are right: by the time we walk off our tapers, that last piece of pill is going to be pretty small. That too can be somewhat solved by placing the 10 g weight in the pan and adding the chip. Otherwise, it might not even register on the scale. Some people might choose to switch to titration at this point. But I've seen that this is often where bravery kicks in, and someone jumps from their micro ledge.

 

Good to hear from ya, and best wishes on the way down!

 

Bennie

:smitten:

 

P.s. I also use gel caps to hold the total dose of chips.

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Thanks Julz, BennieJets, & Kgirl!

 

Love all your thoughts on the daily cutting method.  Great positive feedback on the process.

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

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Sharkey,

 

Good job setting up this group.  I cut to 0.875 mg K and then couldn't tolerate any further cuts until I found the titration method.  I am using the water titration method described on the benzosupport.org site and also the Excel spreadsheet from that site that allows a person to easily customize a daily titration schedule.  I believe one of the keys to success with titration is to start at a low taper rate to ensure you adjust to the liquid and can handle the rate.  Once a person has established that the withdrawal symptoms are tolerable at a low taper rate they can experiment with a faster rate.  I noticed that when I switched to liquid my body experienced that as a significant cut and the same was true each time I increased my taper rate.  My body did adjust to liquid and faster taper rates over a 1-2 week period. 

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can I asked a much needed question? Ive been reading so much info and trying to take it in.

 

I tapered too fast and now my head is so panicky, it's hard to comprehend stuff.

 

can someone tell me, in their opinion, how often one should dose a short acting benzo like Ativan, to avoid interdose withdrawls.

 

I am doing to switch over to microtapering, but I wanted to know about how often to dose Ativan daily. ty so much.

:thumbsup:

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Sharkey,

 

Good job setting up this group.  I cut to 0.875 mg K and then couldn't tolerate any further cuts until I found the titration method.  I am using the water titration method described on the benzosupport.org site and also the Excel spreadsheet from that site that allows a person to easily customize a daily titration schedule. I believe one of the keys to success with titration is to start at a low taper rate to ensure you adjust to the liquid and can handle the rate.  Once a person has established that the withdrawal symptoms are tolerable at a low taper rate they can experiment with a faster rate.  I noticed that when I switched to liquid my body experienced that as a significant cut and the same was true each time I increased my taper rate.  My body did adjust to liquid and faster taper rates over a 1-2 week period. 

 

Hey Ben and welcome to the group,  Thanks for sharing your experience with daily tapering!

 

can I asked a much needed question? Ive been reading so much info and trying to take it in.

 

I tapered too fast and now my head is so panicky, it's hard to comprehend stuff.

 

can someone tell me, in their opinion, how often one should dose a short acting benzo like Ativan, to avoid interdose withdrawls.

 

I am doing to switch over to microtapering, but I wanted to know about how often to dose Ativan daily. ty so much.

:thumbsup:

 

Welcome to the group!  You know my opinion already, which is 4 times a day.  Im sure you will get more feedback :)

 

Stay Strong!

sharkey

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can I asked a much needed question? Ive been reading so much info and trying to take it in.

 

I tapered too fast and now my head is so panicky, it's hard to comprehend stuff.

 

can someone tell me, in their opinion, how often one should dose a short acting benzo like Ativan, to avoid interdose withdrawls.

 

I am doing to switch over to microtapering, but I wanted to know about how often to dose Ativan daily. ty so much.

:thumbsup:

 

I used to dose my Ativan 4 x a day.

To avoid interdose Wd.

 

The panicky feeling will go away again. Keep telling yourself it's chemical. And hat the wave will pass again. It feels awful. And it's easy to get lost in it. So try and distract yourself as good as you can.

I had a lot,of panic yesterday. A lot!

It will pass again once your body has processed the cut and yiur healing has caught up.

 

 

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Thank you so much, buddies. the advice and kind words mean so much, especially when you are in a panic.

 

I am still on a dry dose and going to switch to liquid, but first I think I will switch from 3 times a day, to four times a day. I know my system is so sensitive, that every little switch seems major.

 

After I switch the dry dosing to 4 times a day, and adjust ok, then I will try switch to liquid. I will hold there for a bit to make sure I am ok with the liquid switch and then start microtaper.

 

does this sound like a good plan? Sorry, I seem so out of it. just this darn benzo brain. I want to check and recheck everything with others.

 

thanks soooooooooooooo much for the replies.

 

wecan16

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What a nice thread!  :smitten:

I can relate to very tiny pieces of pill, I got already small plastic containers for my future low doses. I will put the container on the scale, then I will tare the scale to get zero weight, then I am going to put a tiny filed piece previously weighed at the closer, but a bit lower, required weight.

Then I plan to use a very tiny spatula or a little spoon to adjust precisely the weight using powders.

After that I am going to identify the containers by writting the weight on them, this is the ID I always use, 1, 2, 3...are not good numbers for me, especially if having Cog fog  :D

After taking the dose I am going to make sure that no powder is in the container by adding water at the end several times and drink the washing water every time  :D

At lowest and ridiculous doses...I am going all the way to zero  :idiot:...I mean I am going to go as far as 0.0028 or 0.0026 mg :laugh::D  :idiot: I am going to use a couple of agglomerates selected at random from the powder of a full pill.

I know, I am getting nuts  :laugh:

 

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Thank you so much, buddies. the advice and kind words mean so much, especially when you are in a panic.

 

I am still on a dry dose and going to switch to liquid, but first I think I will switch from 3 times a day, to four times a day. I know my system is so sensitive, that every little switch seems major.

 

After I switch the dry dosing to 4 times a day, and adjust ok, then I will try switch to liquid. I will hold there for a bit to make sure I am ok with the liquid switch and then start microtaper.

 

does this sound like a good plan? Sorry, I seem so out of it. just this darn benzo brain. I want to check and recheck everything with others.

 

thanks soooooooooooooo much for the replies.

 

wecan16

 

Yes that sounds like a GREAT plan. It's how I did it too.

Get used to liquid a bit and then start the taper.

I understand the having to verify with others. It's kind of a lonely process because you just don't know what to do or can't think straight some days.

 

The spacing out doses helped me too.

Hope you'll settle soon.

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sounds like you are doing well, Clona. and thanks, Moodle. it's amazing how some nice feedback can bring your spirits up and give you some hope :-)

 

wecan16

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sounds like you are doing well, Clona. and thanks, Moodle. it's amazing how some nice feedback can bring your spirits up and give you some hope :-)

 

wecan16

 

:thumbsup:

I know! It's what I clung to at the start of my taper.

 

:smitten:

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