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My Anxiety is gone after I used codeine cough Syrup!


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K Frankly Colin, I don't care who runs or own the site. I am not asking for anything from you.

The internet is a vast resource and more detailed than your foum.  

 

And your forum is not a court of law. SO as to the post saying I need to accept 'rulings',

I just have to say that that sounds very childish and second honestly NO ONE cares on this site

about empty threats ( A lot of the members have strongly indicated such)

 

like that honestly don't affect anyone sitting a  thousands miles away from you Ok pal?

 

Now let me restate this clearly , just as Kevkev put it nicely, NO ONE is recommending using an addictive

drug such as opiates DURING tapering/withdrawal. Once your body is clean from those substances it is up to the

person what they wan't to do with their bodies. As we all know, differnt things work for different people.

 

Just because you run the your own site does not mean you can run other people lives which you know you can't.

 

This is not the FIRST example of one addictive class of drugs being used to help with issues with another class

of addictive drugs.

 

One GOOD example is : the use of Librium and benzo's to help alcoholics successfully wean themselves off of alcohol and detox them.

 

How do you explain that? Let me guess, your against that too.

 

This has been used on for decades with tens of thousands of patients. You are not a doctor Colin and neither is Eljay. Let alone far from being

the supreme authority when it comes to benzo addiction and drugs.

 

Just as many people have noticed on here , and supported my free speech stance about being able to describe my OWN general experience and journey,

I would never wish for anyone to go through a bad addiction with any substance.

 

This is a benzo recovery site, not just for people going through withdrawals. Lingering sympoms such as anxiety are often even more debilatating

than the first few weeks of detox because of the time span involved. People who have detoxed successfully need help too.

 

Colin, Eljay and all:

 

This is really interesting. All of my posts are at the TOP of the viewing charts.

 

Because people wan't to see how other people have recovered or what their story was about

so that maybe they can learn from it in someway. They won't to see interesting new topics, not just breathe breathe breathe.

 

I have raised many interesting topics such as Vitamin D intake, Phenobarbital usage, the role opiates play in relieving anxiety

and inflammation...

 

Thousands of clinics across the US use phenobarbital. Yet our moderators go against medical advice and say stiflly that is barbaric.

 

What might be the best combination for a sucessful detox is tapering down using Valium, and that is if one can obtain a constant prescription,

and get down to a very small amount.....and than for the last straw take Phenobarbital to make sure a seizure does not pop up and also to control

panic attacks. Instead of making the last 5 or 10 mg of Valium linger on for months and months, which only alters your brain more and more,

it is advisable to stop benzo use ASAP. Not indulge in it as some luxury as some people have recommended.

 

Benzo's are what are dangerous to all of us. That is why were are here to begin with. It is best to seek advice from a qualified

addictionologist who understands the importance of taper but also knows how to wean you off that last drop which is easily done today

by Phenobarbital as was done to me.

 

Recommending Breathing as some anxiety cure will not work for anyone since it can't change brain alteration.

That is a temporary coping method.

 

I think breathing techniques are well known COMMON SENSE and an instintive reaction to stress.

 

 

Everyone else, please chime in. Lets get the true pulse of what people on here think

and have a free debate. Without constant noise of 'this is my site' .

 

NO ONE on here cares about that. The internet is a vast resource and this clearly is

not the only benzo forum for people to express their views.

 

Hi BIHT!  :D

 

I don't think Colin, or any of the Admins feel that they are doctors, nor do I think they are trying to run anybody's lives. It is just that when you run a forum, you feel a responsibility to anyone who joins it, or even just reads through the posts, as a guest. When I signed up, I agreed to follow the rules that Colin instituted, and I hope I have done just that. If not, I hope he, or an Admin/Mod would PM me and tell me if I was doing anything against the rules. I have no problem with any of their rules, because I know that if I do not agree with them, I am free to find another site.

 

I do understand what you mean about various meds helping with anxiety. I also agree with you that deep breathing does NOT help every type of anxiety. I myself get anxiety that is NOT a panic attack, and no amount of deep breathing can alleviate it, because I am not breathing erratically, but am only breathing NORMALLY. So, as you said, deep breathing certainly will not help in my case with the type of anxiety I have.  :sick:

 

About the "opiates issue". I can understand you being interested in the "science" part of it. I too, find a lot of this interesting, and as for me, it doesn't scare me to read up on which benzo is "more binding", etc.  I am interested in the scientific facts, and would actually prefer to know them, as knowing what the facts are - helps me to worry less.

 

As far as opiates being discussed on this forum, I do have to admit I find myself "cringing" inside when others discuss how opiates worked for them.  It isn't that I think you are a "horrible person" for taking something to ease your anxiety, etc., etc.  Some of us DO get debilitating anxiety, and I am one of them, so I DO understand wanting to take something to ease that anxiety so that one can function. NOT to "feel good", but to be able to function normally.

 

However, like I said, I do find myself "cringing" inside.  And this is why:

 

There are so many extremely vulnerable people who are members of this forum, or who may just be guests, reading the various posts on this forum.  I agree with you, that not everyone gets addicted to opiates, and many can manage them wisely and can take meds as needed and as directed.

 

But, I think of those who are not only vulnerable, but who may NOT have the knowledge that you have regarding these types of medications.  I think of those who do NOT possess this knowledge, and who may also be at a stage where they are desperate. They may not be as strong as you are. They may find that they cannot stop taking opiates as easily as you can. Or like I said, they may not be aware of how addictive they can be.

 

This is why I believe Colin and various Admins/Mods feel so strongly about the subject you brought up; using opiates for anxiety after a benzo taper. Colin being the owner of the site, I can only imagine how responsible he feels.

 

True, each person as an individual IS in charge of their own taper, their own life, and in charge of what medication they choose to take or not to take. But I know that if I were running a forum like this, I would be very worried that the subject matter of opiates being taken for anxiety, etc., could very easily be misunderstood by anyone reading the posts.

 

Not knowing a reader's state of mind who logs onto this forum, I would not want to just take it for granted that a person would understand the "gist" of the posts about opiates, etc., and know when NOT to take them, and know NOT to get addicted to them. So many readers just may NOT know. Or, they may not be strong enough to STOP taking them, once they start.

 

It is for these readers that I cringe.  :-[

 

I DO see your interest in the "scientific" part of it, and I find it interesting, too. But, I also see how dangerous it can be to state certain things on an open forum like this, where vulnerable people, people who are recovering, people who are ill, come for help.

 

I don't know the answer to how to deal with this problem, except maybe just using the PMs to discuss it with those who want to, or maybe having a thread that is only visible to members. I really don't know how to deal with it (which is why I would never want to run a forum like this!)  :laugh:

 

I just know when I inwardly wince or cringe, like I mentioned, it's for a reason. I am wincing thinking of the miserable, desperate people reading these posts, tired of their symptoms, tired of waiting for their CNS to heal, tired of feeling miserable and wretched all the time.

 

It is those very people that I worry about reading posts about highly addictive medications being helpful to take - when they're recovering and still healing.

 

Does this make sense? I am not saying any of this to be rude at all. Nor am I judging anyone who does take an opiate or a sip of this or that, like you mentioned. I know each of us is so very different.

 

Still, on a forum where there are people recovering, because of the fact that they are indeed still recovering, I just think we need to be really careful what we say, and how it's said.  By that I mean that I can see why Colin has to have certain rules and guidelines.

 

I am sure that Colin finds the subject interesting himself, but because of those who are recovering like I mentioned above, he has to choose discretion over an interesting topic at times, because he has to think of the members' health and welfare, first.

 

Again, I'm not anti-med. I'm not thinking it's a horrible thing to mention your experience and what helped you. That isn't what I am trying to say.  I am just stating that I can see why this might be a dangerous topic to discuss on an open recovery forum, and I can understand why it might reach a point where Colin would have to intervene and put a stop to it.

 

Not because of any disagreements over whether or not an opiate can help anxiety after a benzo taper, not because it's "wrong" to take an opiate. But just simply because he has to take into account all the different types of people who read the posts on this forum; those who might misunderstand, those who are highly impressionable, those who don't possess a lot of medical knowledge, those who are desperate, etc., etc., etc.

 

I am glad you found something that seems to work well for you.  And if my post sounded pushy or rude, I do apologize!  :-\

 

Kimba  :smitten:

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For the record I think this whole saga is totally ridiculous and won't comment any further on it but one thing I will say is seroquel is a non addictive substance. It simply is not. It is not a controlled substance and you do not need more to achieve desired affects. Yes as with any drug you should probably get off slowly as any body does get used to a certain chemical. There are two used for the drug. Off label for insomnia under 100 mg and above 100 mg for its antipsychotic properties. I just woke up from 12 uninterrupted hours of sleep after taking a tiny dose of it and it is the last thing I am worried about. I have done my research its non narcotic, and even a much better choice then ambien say for example which is addictive and habit forming.

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  • 1 year later...

 

For the record I think this whole saga is totally ridiculous and won't comment any further on it but one thing I will say is seroquel is a non addictive substance. It simply is not. It is not a controlled substance and you do not need more to achieve desired affects. Yes as with any drug you should probably get off slowly as any body does get used to a certain chemical. There are two used for the drug. Off label for insomnia under 100 mg and above 100 mg for its antipsychotic properties. I just woke up from 12 uninterrupted hours of sleep after taking a tiny dose of it and it is the last thing I am worried about. I have done my research its non narcotic, and even a much better choice then ambien say for example which is addictive and habit forming.

 

It may not be addictive, but it does have serious, serious side effects, to the point that it was almost pulled off the market. And note that neither benzos nor opiates were pulled off.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I do not advocate using opiates to get through benzo withdrawal.

 

They may or may not mask symptoms, but just like benzos, with opiates, tolerance increases, and wham! you have another adddiction.

 

I have expereince of opoids and although i didnt get addicted, I found them to be creepers. Sly creepers.

 

Creepers in that a couple of pills could have you out the house doing stuff you didnt feel you could do before, but creepers, in that this is how they creep up on you, and once they have you in their grasp you are up the creek without a paddle.

 

At least with benzo withdrawal, you get to learn new ways of coping with anxiety, and withdrawal makes you sensitive, which can be a good as well as a bad thing. Good in that you are more sensitive to your surroundings and more aware.

 

I have it on good authority from an ex-user that after opiate addiction, you have all of those horrible emotions to contend with. At least with benzo withdrawal, the emotions are already there, waiting to be dealt with, and not coming at you from a great height, all at once like opiate withdrawal.

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  • 10 years later...

I can attest that opioids are essentially the only thing that will resolve the bulk of your major issues in benzo withdrawal.

 

Unfortunately I am within the minority of people who have had addiction problems with them so I did not use them during acute. After failing to resolve my chronic pain issues I decided to give them one last crack with extreme caution. So far so good and my remaining benzo withdrawal symptoms have almost been resolved entirely. I can partly attribute my new found caution with the drug to my horrific experiences with benzo withdrawal.

 

I have just entered another wave of benzo symptoms and I have not skipped a beat in my life duties due to the low dose of Oxycodone I am prescribed. If I had of used this during acute I can tell you right now I would not have failed my degree. So there is a major case to be made for those whose lives are literally falling apart.

 

As for the science, it's not quite as simple as "opioids make you euphoric so of course you feel better". Like benzos increase GABA and have a seesaw effect lowering Serotonin in the process, on the flip side SSRIs increase Serotonin and reduce GABA which is why they are not recommended here for benzo withdrawal. It is said that opioids have a balancing effect on all the neurotransmitters rather than raising one and lowering another. This is very simplified but appears to be the general outcome.

 

You will see people on here who appear to have had a much smoother and faster benzo withdrawal that were also prescribed opioids. My thoughts would be that effectively balancing neurotransmitters allows for more efficient healing to take place, rather than neurotransmitters totally being out of whack and your body scrambling to repair while there is so much dysfunction happening.

 

As an ex opioid addict who has had near 10 withdrawals in the past and has achieved sustainability in their current use this is what I would recommend if you were considering using them;

 

- Do not EVER take more than what is required to be functional because then they will be euphoric over therapeutic and your brain will eventually begin to seek this reward instead of what it is supposed to

 

- Use 2-3 times a week so you do not develop a tolerance, eventually you would but it would take a long time and wouldn't cause much issue when stopping

 

- Keep your daily doses totally consistent if used daily to maintain blood plasma levels, reducing side effects and slightly potential kindling effects

 

- Use extended release instead of fast-acting to reduce euphoric potential and unstable plasma levels

 

- Do not let yourself begin to believe this is the solution to your problems, it is a great aid but is no where near sustainable in the long term like many medications

 

- Do not stop and start multiple times, kindling is still fairly present, although minor in contrast to benzos

 

- Do not use fully synthetic opioids (Tramadol, Tapentadol, Methadone etc) they have effects on Serotonin and Noradrenaline, worsening benzo w/d symptoms and have much worse withdrawal syndromes than plain opioid receptor agonists

 

- Obviously, do not inject, snort, dissolve in mouth or insert opioids rectally. Again, this causes a fast onset of action, euphoria and unstable plasma levels

 

- Be very weary of which opioid you choose and understand we all react slightly differently to different opioids. If I had to recommend one for this particular predicament it would be Oxycodone. I have seen some people have issues with codeine and morphine whilst in benzo withdrawal. This may be attributed to the relatively miniscule raise in GABA they produce. Whereas Oxycodone actually blocks GABA minutely. Personally the effect on GABA with Oxycodone is negligible once some tolerance to side effects is sustained, but even at the start the anxiety relief from other mechanisms was greater than the reduction.

I have used codeine + morphine on two, one off occasions in a poppy seed tea preparation during acute for a day of relief and it worked great. Possibly better than Oxycodone. I did not notice any setback type of effect in the following days but that's not to say it's impossible with extended use so do be careful if this is the route you choose.

 

These are all the key points that come to mind that are currently serving me well. My quality of life has increased drastically with regard to my chronic pain and all of my remaining benzo withdrawal symptoms. I take only enough to be functional and have never been happier since my issues began. My relationship is benefitting greatly and my ability to fulfill all of my duties in life are pretty much at baseline.

 

The only downsides, although minor, were initial irritability, feeling a bit hot and slightly decreased ability to fall asleep (Oxycodone stimulates my mind), these faded quickly once tolerance to side effects was sustained. The only problem I still have which is fading is a memory issue. The memory issue is also seperate to memory problems from benzos and is more to do with me moving at a faster pace than I was before. It's not an inability to remember like with benzos, it's more that I'm getting wrapped up in the moment. Once I became aware and slowed myself down a little bit I have had no issues and actually believe my memory is a little better overall. Probably because I'm not being bombarded with unnecessary anxiety all the time.

 

I believe the main issue causing mental addiction with opioids is a general dissatisfaction with life. Since going through benzo withdrawal I have a great appreciation for my life and acceptance although life is still incomplete. The other thing that resolved the rest of my mental depression was microdosing psilocybin which removed negative trains of thought/trauma that have been consistent since a very young age. The last time I used it was about 2 months ago and the positive effects remain. I don't want to come across as the idiot who thinks drugs are the total solution to everything because I am past this train of thought by a longshot but some are clearly great aids when used with careful intent and knowledge. I deeply accredit psilocybin along with my benzo withdrawal experience in resolving my mental depression.

 

I say mental depression because there is still chemical depression present from benzo withdrawal. Although the chemical depression remained, I was still able to be genuinely happy and positive even though I didn't feel it much. Since taking Oxycodone again that chemical depression has resolved and because mental depression is not present, I no longer feel the desire to abuse this medication like I did in the past. I love life like I never have before and I think that is the core reason I'm no longer stupid enough to abuse Oxycodone. Regardless of how good I know that it feels. It's like how you know going on a holiday is fun, but if you can't afford to then it is no biggie if you don't.

 

If you hate your life do not start using opioids. Get it together and genuinely figure out the mental aspect of your depression first. If you don't and you use opioids there will be a point where you decide this is the total solution and they will destroy you and leave you wanting. They are only a solution to the chemical aspects that we cannot control on our own.

 

Best wishes and be safe!  :)

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Well this is MY EXPERIENCE.. and again no one is advocating a new drug addiction. One or two teaspoons of cough syrup with codeine

will NOT make you an addict... unless you were addicting to opiates before....in which case caution must be exercised.

 

 

If one has a history of opiate addiction, you can not tell them to use an opiate with caution! An addict must abstain from their substance of addiction, not use it with caution. I'm not saying there aren't cases where one with a history of addiction has no choice but to use an opiate under a doctors care, such as severe intractable pain for which there is no other option.  But not for benzo withdrawal symtoms such as anxiety and muscle aches.

 

And an all-or-nothing statement such as 'one or two teaspoons will NOT make you an addict' is also irresponsible. You have no idea how someone will react to one dose. Please Boyinhtown, use more caution in your posting.

 

Um, this poster did say, twice, "IN MY EXPERIENCE".  There was no recommendation to do what this poster did, they only gave "their" experience.

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I have never heard of anyone becoming addicted after one teaspoon of hydrocodeine syrup especially after 5 months of being clean.

 

Opiates hit different receptors.. opiod receptors... different than what benzo's do.

 

Just thought I'd mention that.

 

Actually, from my research, alcohol, opiates, and benzos all hit the same receptors, and that’s why all three are quite difficult to wean from.

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Hi My Misery Owes Me, Hingie, and Moksha,

 

Just to point out, this is a very old thread, resurrected after more than 10 years. You are unlikely to receive replies from the original posters now. ;)

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have never heard of anyone becoming addicted after one teaspoon of hydrocodeine syrup especially after 5 months of being clean.

 

Opiates hit different receptors.. opiod receptors... different than what benzo's do.

 

Just thought I'd mention that.

 

Actually, from my research, alcohol, opiates, and benzos all hit the same receptors, and that’s why all three are quite difficult to wean from.

 

Opioids and benzos bind with the opioid and the benzo sites on GABAA receptors respectively. They do not bind the same receptors.

 

 

 

 

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