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Is Klonopin the Worst.. ? (It is the most binding)


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I have read that Klonopin has the most tight binding on receptors. Valium has the least.

 

Many benzo users report that Klonopin withdrawals seem to be the worst.

 

I agree to an extent. It is the most binding and potency wise equal to Xanax. Best of both worlds in a way.

Long half life and potency. Nasty Pill!

 

Any thoughts?

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Is the question "Is Klonopin the worst"?  I am going to answer with a question..... "Why do you ask"?

 

If the answer is "yes, Klonopin is the worst", then all the folks on Klonopin will get more scared.

 

And the folks not on Klonopin will begin to question why they are having so many problems when they are not on the "worst" drug.

 

If the answer is "no, Klonopin is not the worst", then everyone will start to worry "Am I on the worst drug, then?" 

 

Which can only lead to worry about how to figure out if their drug is the "worst".

 

And so on and so on......

 

See what I mean?

 

So, why do you ask? Or better yet, how will the answer help you?   

 

 

 

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I have read that Klonopin has the most tight binding on receptors. Valium has the least.

 

Many benzo users report that Klonopin withdrawals seem to be the worst.

 

I agree to an extent. It is the most binding and potency wise equal to Xanax. Best of both worlds in a way.

Long half life and potency. Nasty Pill!

 

Any thoughts?

 

Hi Boyinhtown,

 

Welcome to Benzo buddies.

 

Actually, long half life is a positive thing for the purposes of tapering. It allows the benzo to leave your body at a slower rate, easing wd symptoms.

As far as I know from personal experience and in all my time here observing others tapering, klonopin is no more difficult to taper off of than any other benzo.

I actually had a relatively easy time of it, and I did a fairly rapid taper.

 

I hope this answers your question or at least eases your mind a bit.  :)

 

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Hey boyinhtown,

 

I was switched from Xanax to Klonopin for my taper that I just finished.  I'm not sure what is supposed to be the worst, but I had a pretty decent taper.  Post benzo so far has been tolerable as well!

 

Hope this helps!

 

 

Phyllis    :smitten:

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Thanks for those informative replies Eljay and Phillips...

 

Not sure why hawkeye is psycho analyzing my simple question and concern?

 

The more info we have regarding everything than the better for all of us.

 

And no, not everyone thinks like you in a end of the world way ... as proven by the other two responses.

 

 

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I can't comment on the K, but I know that when I've taken my xanax it peaks, then exits quickly. I was experiencing rebound anxiety because of it's short life. I don't know, so please don't bank on my words, but I think tapering off this crap is hard, no matter what benzo you are on. Getting off xanax is difficult, the same (I'm sure) as it is difficult getting off any other benzo. I hope I make sense here. To me, they are all equally nasty and we can't really get off easy when it comes to getting free of em. Welcome to BB by the way :)
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It's just a different way to look at the question, that's all.  No one knows the answer to the question. My opinion is that we scare ourselves by asking questions that have no answer.  And anxiety is made worse by fear.

 

I remember when I read that "Effexor was the worst anti-depressant to taper off", it made be more worried than I already was about how my taper would go.  But what did that mean, anyway?  Was does "the worst" mean?  It causes the worst... headaches?  Or have there been deaths from Effexor tapers?  And where are the studies?  And even if it could be proven that Effexor is in fact "the worst", I still planned to taper off.  And thinking it might be "the worst" didn't help me to plan for my taper.  So the statement, in my opinion, only served to scare me. 

 

Of course gathering relevant, academic information is always important.  I just wish we wouldn't ask questions that, in my opinion, serve only to further confuse and serve no purpose other than to scare us.  Opinions are only that, and most of them (not all) don't indicate that someone is "psycho".  They simply have a different opinion than you. 

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Hey boyinhtown,

 

I agree that all are bad,  with each having more trouble than another lol, sorry I'm kind of brain dead here, I just wanted to agree with you about being psycho analyzed when one is trying to answer a post as if they're an analyst to screw with your head lol. Happens to me all the time, I'm just glad you noticed it too, cause I've been having a hard enough time without being ripped apart for many of the posts I make!!!

 

Thanksssssssssssss and AMEN!!! :smitten::yippee: :yippee:

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Haha.. thanks again Skooter... how old ru by the way? I'm 25 year old male...

 

This forum is so big and the internet too that I think once people start looking information up they realize on their own

that there is hope out there and what one post says might not apply entirely to them. People are smart. If they weren't than

they would not be trolling the internet looking for answers.

 

 

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Thanks for that good advice eljay.. I was cold turkeyed off of Klonopin but I have to say now after nearly 5 months I am doing just great! I had started to get my 'windows's of no anxiety or symptoms just from the 2nd week... but it was 95% pain and 5% relief.... now it is the exact opposite... I still have about 5% of anxiety, if that makes sense... it usually happens at night, which has probably to do with being up all day and environmental stimuli overloading my sensitiev brain... But I am sure in the next 1-2 months I will be done with that little bit of anxiety as well.

 

 

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Hi,

 

I know a little about your question - re: binding of benzos to GABA receptors.

 

It is true that Klonopin is more tightly binding than most (all?) other benzos. This might have some implications for recovery after quitting, as Klonopin might be slower to leave the GABA receptors. This does not mean people will not recover though!

 

Valium is far less binding than Klonopin, and if taken in substitution for Klonopin, it seems to compete to bind with GABA receptors, thus dislodging the Klonopin. However, there is a fly in the ointment. A small number of people seem to have a tough time when substituting one benzo for another, and Prof. Ashton noticed this was more pronounced in those switching from Klonopin to Valium. I believe the numbers were still quite low, but they were elevated. I don't know how statistically significant was the observed increase in the numbers that found this particular switch difficult. My speculation - and it really is speculation - is that if an individual has Klonopin binding particularly tightly to their GABA receptors (and my guess is that because there are genetic differences, there therefore will be different genetic expression at GABA receptor sites), then substituting for Valium might quickly dislodge the Klonopin (in effect, drastically shortening the Klonopin's half-life within an individual), but because Valium has a comparatively very long half-life, it will be very slow to build up to a level to replace the Klonopin.

 

Anyway, my understanding is that some might find recovery a little slower from Klonopin - for whatever reason that might be (it might be connected to the tight binding issue). Some people find it particularly difficult to switch from Klonopin to Valium - my speculation is that this might be connected to the tight binding issue. However, even those that struggle with such a switch, will probably adjust to Valium given enough time.

 

I should point out that the vast majority of members that have switched from Klonopin to Valium have been fine. And that people should not worry unduly about the 'tight binding' issue. I withdraw from 4.5mg Klonopin. I wasn't fun, but I did it.

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Hi boyinhtown,

 

I cold turkeyed from Klonopin too, it was no picnic.  It sounds like you had an easier time of it than I did.  I didn't know what was happening to me until I came to this forum 5 months later.  My symptoms continued to rage for many more months, but at least I finally had the understanding that came with reading the Ashton Manual and connecting to the folks on this forum. 

 

For me, because I took no other benzo and CT'd from it, Klonopin is the worst.  Worse than others I have no idea, I just know my own story. 

 

I'm very happy you've been able to heal so rapidly, that's such a gift.

 

Pam

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i was hooked on xanex, then the doc swapped me over to klonopin..  i found that the klonopin was easier to get off of because it stays in your system longer, therefore making the taper a little bit easier.  i dont think i could have tapered xanex period, that stuff is nasty!!!!  it exited my system way to quickly.  i think that i would still be on those xannies to this day if i would have never made the switch to klonopin..  it really helped me get off of all this crap!    ;)
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Thanks Colin for that insightful thread!

Also thanks Pam and Kev..

 

Different things work for different people as far as treating their symptoms...

 

Well I have to say my last 5 months have been no joy ride... allthough better than a lot of people...especially considering I was

forcefully cold turkeyed off the Klonopin/Xanax/Librium

 

But with Kev's help .. I was reminded that opiates like Hydrocodone have helped me before with my anxiety.. .allthough I still was

trying to detox and had benzos in my body... perhaps thats why it didn't work long term..

 

I tried cough syrup yesterday .. a teaspoon of Cheratussin which has codeine in it and i swear my anxiety is all but GONE!!!

 

i dont have that persistent annoying aching and tightness on my chest ne more... I think the opiate helped take away

the inflammation/pain somehow... because thats what it seemed like...

 

I hope this can help you Pam! if your still in trouble.. again I am not advocating a new addiction.. but if one wasn't addicted to

opiates before than one or two teaspoons WILL NOT make you an addict. No harm in trying and see if it works for you.

 

EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT.

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I hope this can help you Pam! if your still in trouble.. again I am not advocating a new addiction.. but if one wasn't addicted to

opiates before than one or two teaspoons WILL NOT make you an addict. No harm in trying and see if it works for you.

 

 

Hi!

 

No point in me reiterating what was discussed yesterday regarding opiates, but I would like to point out something that seems to have been missed.

 

Most doctors would not prescribe an opiate for benzo withdrawal, so it is mostly moot to be recommending it. And while I appreciate that you are only trying to help, I have to say again it's really not appropriate to be recommending opiates here on a benzo withdrawal site.

Thank you.  :)

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Eljay,

 

That is my opinion and what I went through. No one is forcing anyone to do anything.

If serroquel, anti depressants and other dangerous medications can be discussed about

than there is not need to get queasy about another medication like cough syrup with codeine.

 

Kev, my anxiety is hasn't returned yet so I am hoping I stay this way. It has been almost 2 days now.

 

Thanks again for your help. But of course the best thing for anyone would be to have a drug free recovery

on their own... sometimes though with all the mind alteration, some form of other support is required.

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Boyinhtown,

 

Your posts promoting opiates as an aid to benzo-withdrawal are dangerous. Such posts must stop now. Our members are already experiencing problems quitting benzos, they can well do without adding another addictive medicine to the mix. And, of course, as Eljay pointed out, what kind of doctor is going to prescribe opiates to patients tapering off their benzos?

 

Of course your anxiety is gone if you take opiates - this is what makes them so attractive as recreational drugs. They are are also highly addictive - did I really need to point this out?

 

Whether or not you agree or disagree with this stance, it is the stance of this forum. I never considered that we needed a rule to cover this - so I tell you now, stop promoting opiates as a benzo-withdrawal aid. I own this website - it is my privilege to determine what is, and what is not suitable material for this forum. In future, if you take issue with what you have been told by a moderator, let alone an Admin of this forum, and you do not have good grace to accept the ruling, then contact me through the PM system.

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K Frankly Colin, I don't care who runs or own the site. I am not asking for anything from you.

The internet is a vast resource and more detailed than your foum. 

 

And your forum is not a court of law. SO as to the post saying I need to accept 'rulings',

I just have to say that that sounds very childish and second honestly NO ONE cares on this site

about empty threats ( A lot of the members have strongly indicated such)

 

like that honestly don't affect anyone sitting a  thousands miles away from you Ok pal?

 

Now let me restate this clearly , just as Kevkev put it nicely, NO ONE is recommending using an addictive

drug such as opiates DURING tapering/withdrawal. Once your body is clean from those substances it is up to the

person what they wan't to do with their bodies. As we all know, differnt things work for different people.

 

Just because you run the your own site does not mean you can run other people lives which you know you can't.

 

This is not the FIRST example of one addictive class of drugs being used to help with issues with another class

of addictive drugs.

 

One GOOD example is : the use of Librium and benzo's to help alcoholics successfully wean themselves off of alcohol and detox them.

 

How do you explain that? Let me guess, your against that too.

 

This has been used on for decades with tens of thousands of patients. You are not a doctor Colin and neither is Eljay. Let alone far from being

the supreme authority when it comes to benzo addiction and drugs.

 

Just as many people have noticed on here , and supported my free speech stance about being able to describe my OWN general experience and journey,

I would never wish for anyone to go through a bad addiction with any substance.

 

This is a benzo recovery site, not just for people going through withdrawals. Lingering sympoms such as anxiety are often even more debilatating

than the first few weeks of detox because of the time span involved. People who have detoxed successfully need help too.

 

 

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Hi Boyinhtown,

 

If you had made a post about the 'science', and were enquiring about why this might occur, and discuss sensibly the very real potential problems with taking opiates as an aid to alleviating benzo withdrawal symptoms, you would have received a different response from me. However, instead, you posted to about four different threads, in the space of a few hours, about how this is some kind of panacea - you were most definitely promoting the use of opiates! Your posts were irresponsible, and aimed to encourage others to try opiates as a solution. As such, you stepped over the line - this discussion stops now. How many times must I write this?

 

I own this website - I have responsibilities you do not. Since I own here, I, ultimately, decide where to draw the line. If you wish to continue to post to this forum, you will have to accept the 'rulings' - this is true of every single forum you might wish to join. The vast majority members understand this.

 

A few of your posts from yesterday:

 

Thanks Colin for that insightful thread!

Also thanks Pam and Kev..

 

Different things work for different people as far as treating their symptoms...

 

Well I have to say my last 5 months have been no joy ride... allthough better than a lot of people...especially considering I was

forcefully cold turkeyed off the Klonopin/Xanax/Librium

 

But with Kev's help .. I was reminded that opiates like Hydrocodone have helped me before with my anxiety.. .allthough I still was

trying to detox and had benzos in my body... perhaps thats why it didn't work long term..

 

I tried cough syrup yesterday .. a teaspoon of Cheratussin which has codeine in it and i swear my anxiety is all but GONE!!!

 

i dont have that persistent annoying aching and tightness on my chest ne more... I think the opiate helped take away

the inflammation/pain somehow... because thats what it seemed like...

 

I hope this can help you Pam! if your still in trouble.. again I am not advocating a new addiction.. but if one wasn't addicted to

opiates before than one or two teaspoons WILL NOT make you an addict. No harm in trying and see if it works for you.

 

EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT.

 

I have never heard of anyone becoming addicted after one teaspoon of hydrocodeine syrup especially after 5 months of being clean.

 

Opiates hit different receptors.. opiod receptors... different than what benzo's do.

 

Just thought I'd mention that.

 

You are right... Vitamin D is not a CURE as I will state now from my experience on it for a month.. It DOES help me though.

Whether its placebo or something else.. it tends to immediately calm me down.

 

But more than likely if it has been months since your detox and you've returned to your normal diet than It is unlikely that

some sort of mineral or vitamin deficiency is causing anxiety. You would have to be completely malnourished for something like

that to occur perhaps.

 

I just took codeine cough syrup Cheratussin and I swear to everyone my anxiety is GONE!! I took one teaspoon after another member

reported a similar experience with Hydrocodone syrup.. he has a thread started under BUSPAR/Hydrocodone

 

Well I have to say I haven't felt like this in along time... I am calm.. and it has been over a day now.. so I am hopign I stay this way.

Read that post for info on how I think it helped!!

 

Good Luck Skooter!!!

 

NEWS FLASH HAWKEYE!!

 

The bottom line is that I feel pretty good now after I took a teaspoon of codeine cough syrup.

 

You can disagreew with me ALL you want or be angry at me for telling my experiences...

 

You are NOT going to take the joy away from me that I feel now that I have never felt before

and I will share it with everyone.

 

Take psychotic drugs is what is dangerous, especially if you never had any psychological issues before you started

benzo addiciton.

 

Your trying to muzzle free speech is what is dangerous.

 

Many of our members are very suggestable - you can discuss nearly anything at this forum, so long as you frame it correctly and carefully. You failed to do this.

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Hi boyintown,

 

Thanks for your suggestion to use the cough syrup, but if you had taken the time to read my signature line you would have seen that I'm healed and happy.  Just for your information, I've been a recovering alcoholic for 18 years.  When I started using benzo's my addictive nature took over and I was right back where I left off 18 years ago with the alcohol.  I was out of control again and I knew it when I took that first Klonopin.  It gave me that feeling, that euphoria that I remembered so well. 

 

If I were take a drink of cough syrup with codeine in it, it would be for me the worst thing I could do.  It would invite yet another substance I have no control over to take over my life.

 

I'm glad you were able to feel some relief from your pain, but using it as you suggest is not what it was manufactured for.  Isn't that one of the problems some of us are  facing here on this forum?  We were given the benzo to fix a host of different issues when many of them were made for a specific ailment?  I know I've never had epilepsy and when I read after the fact that I was taking a drug made for that horrible problem I was sickenend.

 

Pam

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Hi Pam,

 

And this is exactly why we had a problem with some of the posts to this thread, and some other threads, a couple of days ago. You are right to steer clear of these suggestions.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Colin -

 

I'm broke, little money, but if I had extra money I would donate to you!  I don't think you and the moderators get paid enough (at all) to deal with this stuff! 

 

THANK YOU and the moderators for moderating so well.

 

FYI -- My doctors did the reverse - they used benzo's to treat the tolerance withdrawal from opiates!  I think it is very irresponsible to do this.  But neither they nor I knew at the time that the withdrawal symptoms were withdrawal and/or tolerance symptoms.  I ended up totally dependent on opiates AND benzo's for years.  I had no clue as to the magnitude of problems these drugs caused.  ....hair loss, double vision, blurry vision, fatigue, rhinitis, palpitations, tremors, headaches, muscle soreness, facsiculations, nerve pain, loss of libido, weight gain, numbness, severe cognitive decline, vomiting, loss of boundaries - emotional instability and lack of control and judgement....the list goes on.  All these side effects totally trashed my life - lost my house, my career, my friends, my family, most of my possessions, my life savings, everything gone. 

 

Treating one problem with something that carries/creates similar serious problems is wreckless.  However, I must say this lack of judgement given by BoyInTown and the reasons he stated sound like the 'defense' I would have given when  I was taking all those medications.  My skills of rationalization were totally skewed.  I am so glad all that is behind me now.  Addiction or not, even occasional use of opiates for these reasons is inappropriate.  People need to find appropriate healthy ways of dealing with problems - drugs are not the answer.

 

I would NEVER recommend to anyone that they use opiates to treat benzo w/d symptoms, or vice versa.  NEVER!

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