CBC Radio Interview w/Dr. Jeffrey Lieberman, Psychiatrist/Author of "Shrinks"

This CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) interview ran today, Sunday, April 26, 2015 on "The Sunday Edition". Host Michael Enright speaks with Dr. Jeffrey Lieberman, psychiatrist, past president of the American Psychiatric Association, and author of "Shrinks: The Untold Story of Psychiatry". It's a wide-ranging interview that touches on topics such as incidence of mental illness, medication, the DSM, and institutions.

 

I'd be so interested to hear others' thoughts on this interview, which runs about 37 minutes. I have many gripes with it. Have a listen and see what you think!

 

http://www.cbc.ca/player/Radio/The+Sunday+Edition/ID/2665272547/

Hey, Lapis.

 

Okay, I got a lot for this one because he went after Robert Whitaker, whose book saved my life and kept me from descending into cognitive decline. So game on. Let's play hardball.

 

Before discussing, folks might want to read Whitaker's rebuttal on his website Mad in America:

 

Shrinks: A Self-Portrait of a Profession

 

 

Now, for the video. Lieberman never once cites a single study to back up what he says. When asked about Whitaker's work, he gives the definition of what a randomized study is. And he says if you do a randomized trial, there's no doubt that the medicated patients will have "extraordinary outcomes", but he doesn't actually cite one single study that shows that. Whitaker's books cite many studies that show the opposite. 

 

When asked about the 11% of the population on AD's, he diverts the question and talks about people taking too many antibiotics and painkillers. So he never answers the question.

 

And when asked about his own son whom this supposed "doctor" took to a pediatric psychiatrist because his school said he wasn't paying attention in class - this "doctor" did NOT comply with the medication and refused to give it to his own son . Why? Didn't the pediatric psychiatrist get his diagnostic information from the very DSM bible that Lieberman advocates?

 

Why should our society be told to take these drugs but his own kid is shielded? What is this "doctor" / snake oil salesman hiding?

 

Toward the end of the interview, this "doctor" explains PTSD with a story about how he suffered after he dropped an air conditioner out of a window. He was never in any danger - he was simply worried it might fall on someone. And this helped him understand PTSD from war veterans. Wow. This guy is a cartoon.

 

He has led an ultra sheltered life and has absolutely no insight into the human condition. And yet he wields an awful lot of power.

 

A scary amount of power.

Agree 100% with you, Mind.  That was truly painful to listen to!  Shocking, shocking, shocking!!!

I'm only sorry that Michael Enright went so easy on him, it seemed clear to me where his prejudice lay ... but maybe I'm wrong?

 

No doubt this "doctor" is also still being funded by someone.  Just shocking! 

Agree 100% with you, Mind.  That was truly painful to listen to!  Shocking, shocking, shocking!!!

I'm only sorry that Michael Enright went so easy on him, it seemed clear to me where his prejudice lay ... but maybe I'm wrong?

 

No doubt this "doctor" is also still being funded by someone.  Just shocking! 

 

Hey, abcd. It was painful to listen to. I really wish Enright had gone after him, too. He almost did, especially around the topic of grief and depression.

 

What we need is a people-led revolution. And we'll take Lieberman and all of the soft-bellied quacks like him down. 

 

 

I was trying to be open-minded, but I found myself angry very quickly. He was defensive and dismissive. He didn't give any useful factual information, and he had an air of superiority. I was half-listening when it aired this morning, so I thought I should re-listen later on. ARGH! I could imagine how difficult it would be to be his patient. I was so sorry to hear that he had such a senior position in the APA too.

I was trying to be open-minded, but I found myself angry very quickly. He was defensive and dismissive. He didn't give any useful factual information, and he had an air of superiority. I was half-listening when it aired this morning, so I thought I should re-listen later on. ARGH! I could imagine how difficult it would be to be his patient. I was so sorry to hear that he had such a senior position in the APA too.

 

Thanks for posting this, Lapis.

 

I'm really hoping to see a consumer led revolution against the APA and the big pharmaceutical companies.

 

Be sure and read Whitaker's rebuttal that's linked in my first post. I re-read it and it helped tone my anger down because Whitaker has science and facts on his side. He's the real voice of reason.

 

Thanks for all the research you post for us. 

I did read your Whittaker link, MindSeeker, so thank you for that. It really made me feel sick to think of someone sitting in this man's office, trying to make sense of his reasoning and feeling quite confused and vulnerable. When he used the comparison between diabetics/insulin and people needing antidepressants, I was outraged. What?! This is the kind of message that has to be challenged and changed.

I read the rebuttal, Mind.  I would LOVE to hear these two go head-to-head.  The way Lieberman tore down Whitaker was very unprofessional and even childish, in my view.  He's very articulate but quite honestly, his responses sounded very rehearsed to me; in particular when he kept throwing in true medical illnesses as examples. 

 

 

 

And when asked about his own son whom this supposed "doctor" took to a pediatric psychiatrist because his school said he wasn't paying attention in class - this "doctor" did NOT comply with the medication and refused to give it to his own son . Why? Didn't the pediatric psychiatrist get his diagnostic information from the very DSM bible that Lieberman advocates?

 

Why should our society be told to take these drugs but his own kid is shielded? What is this "doctor" / snake oil salesman hiding?

 

Toward the end of the interview, this "doctor" explains PTSD with a story about how he suffered after he dropped an air conditioner out of a window. He was never in any danger - he was simply worried it might fall on someone. And this helped him understand PTSD from war veterans. Wow. This guy is a cartoon.

 

 

Couldn't agree more!  I saw red listening to the story about his son, he was totally contradicting everything he's selling with that one BS story!  Ugh!  No respect for this character at all!  And Enright didn't push him on that?  He totally chickened out!

I'd love to see Whitaker and Lieberman debate, too!

 

My money is on Whitaker.

 

I've gotten the "insulin" story thrown at me a LOT over the past 30 years. It's good to finally know the truth.

 

My heart really goes out to the mentally ill who pass away young without knowing that they're really not broken. They're really not damaged.

 

They were victims in something that went horribly wrong.

This interview stands in stark contrast to one that I heard awhile ago on CBC with Dr. Paul Garfinkel, a staff psychiatrist at CAMH, the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health in Toronto (Canada) and a professor at U. of Toronto. The topic was the state of psychiatry, and Dr. Garfinkel was lamenting the change in psychiatry from a focus on talk therapy to medications. He noted the low success rate of SSRIs as well. And he handled all the callers questions and comments in a gentle, professional and compassionate way. Very impressive! There's no online recording or I'd have posted it before. But it was a great interview...very encouraging.

 

Here's an excerpt from his book that I found thought-provoking and touching:

 

http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2014/10/03/a_patients_suicide_a_doctors_devastation.html

This interview stands in stark contrast to one that I heard awhile ago on CBC with Dr. Paul Garfinkel, a staff psychiatrist at CAMH, the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health in Toronto (Canada) and a professor at U. of Toronto. The topic was the state of psychiatry, and Dr. Garfinkel was lamenting the change in psychiatry from a focus on talk therapy to medications. He noted the low success rate of SSRIs as well. And he handled all the callers questions and comments in a gentle, professional and compassionate way. Very impressive! There's no online recording or I'd have posted it before. But it was a great interview...very encouraging.

 

Here's an excerpt from his book that I found thought-provoking and touching:

 

http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2014/10/03/a_patients_suicide_a_doctors_devastation.html

 

This doctor sounds human. Very, very different than most of the corporate drone medication dispensers.

 

Wish there were more like him.

I keep this man in mind when I listen to people like Dr. Lieberman. There ARE good ones out there!

If you listened to the CBC Radio "The Sunday Edition" interview I posted last week featuring Dr. Jeffrey Lieberman, then you might be interested in listening to the mail that was received by that radio show last week. It seems that many other listeners had similar reactions to us.

 

Here's the 5-minute clip:

 

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/popup/audio/player.html?autoPlay=true&clipIds=2666052390

 

 

Listened to it.  He's a first class bleep if you ask me!

 

Here's an article by Judy Stone, MD (infectious disease specialist), talking about him and sharing our sentiments too:

 

"Frankly, I’m appalled by Lieberman’s post, especially as it was invited. Although masquerading as a reasoned critique, it is anything but that. Rather, the piece is self-promotional and condescending."

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/molecules-to-medicine/2013/05/24/anti-psychiatry-prejudice-a-response-to-dr-lieberman/

 

And if you read up on him at Wikipedia and other places, you'll see he's up to his ears in drug money.  As expected.  Is "scum" too unclassy of a word to describe him?  This individual has and continues to *knowingly* seriously destroy the lives of many, many people!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Lieberman