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Micro Tapering/Daily Tapering off of Klonopin – Success Story -


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Hi Kay!  Thanks for coming back so much to update us.  I would love to hear more on you theories about setbacks, what causes them and how to avoid them.  I know you've been studying this.  I'm so happy to read you are sx-free now -  amazing!  Thank you for all the help and support you've given me.  I take my last dose of benzo tonight.  The DMT really worked and I was sure I was doomed.  I'm not healed but MUCH better!
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Libr

 

People talk about time and waiting. Which is true. If you tapered the slowest you could and you wait, its very probable everything will be alright.  That's not the case for me. It's the akathisia over anything else, since I had it 4 times, I am very sensitized and am not sure if the same rules apply such as someone having had akathisia one time. By bugging neurologists and making them answer most will say 2.7 years to  7 years  range on healing, some say 7 - 10 years healing. Biggest thing is the time off ALL medications and that's what is not understood. Since I had my last akathisia from a blood pressure pill I am in a bind, but other people are in other binds. People who need thyroid medications and have reactions, people needing biological medications for autoimmune diseases and  have reactions and even people needing chemo and getting akathisia.

 

I don't have any symptoms but also feel like if I have any of the health conditions I am in danger of further injury and I do believe each time injures increase and at some point push the person into the next level of injury which would be Dyskinesia and then even later on can go into Dystonia. Having had akathisia 4 times I am aware of chance of things getting worse. And my goal is not not get injured worse and deal with the others. I know many people that have had a reaction from a medication given to them in the ER end up with akathisia and have symptoms of Dyskinesia, even being diagnosed with and it all going away over time off all medications. I have personally seen it. If you search for the term "missd" in a search engine there is a new site for akathisia and there is more information, not as much as i want to see, but there are parts that explain different kinds of akathisa. So akathisia from withdrawal might be better than someone who gets it with a brain injury history and multiable akathisia like myself.

 

My setbacks could be because of my history.  I had a  brain injury in a car accident at age 16, end up have seizures for years, then medicated with phenobarbital for some years, then this benzo stuff for years. Then while on klonopin having akathisia from compazine in the ER for food poisoning. then while tapering an AD but still on klonopin getting akathisia from surgery. Then getting it from benzo withdrawal and then finally getting it from the blood pressure pills.  I am fine when I am not taking medications and the Doctors don't understand and doubt me so I am not currently getting and help from them.

 

 

Oh and last but not least Congratulations for being Benzo free! The DMT is the only way for me!  Staying away from medications as long as you can is your best shot to being 100 healed. As time goes by after the taper you will get better and better!

 

Kay

 

 

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These success stories give me hope. I’m kinda of new to this and I need advice from those who have successfully gotten off. My story is in my signature. Basically haven’t stabilized since last cut. I have a weird left over schedule from before. I take quarter mg k at 6:30 and half mg plus an eight at 10:30. I’m holding for almost 2 months waiting for stability. All day I have what feels like interdose withdraw symptoms (might be from not stabilizing from past cuts). When I take my first dose don’t feel it. Even my second dose at night I don’t feel the affect. Meaning, as I take my doses I don’t feel that it makes feel normal. I need some help from the survivors. I’m very scared to make the next move, as I feel it could further destabilize me. Ive put this same question on a thread but didn’t give any feedback. Any insight would be much appreciated.

 

Sorry I took so long to come back. I tried that kind of taper before,taking big cut and putting months (6 months) between them and everytime when I got half way I went into acute. The only way I got better was putting my dose in milk and splitting it into three and dosing three times a day, the interdose withdrawal went away and I lost most of my very acute symptoms and I was ready to taper, which I did the Micro taper within 4 months of a slow slow taper I felt even better actually sped up the taper a tiny bit and finished it out in 18 months. By the time I got to the end I have very few symptoms (ears and being tired) thats about all.  In the thread Laura posts the measurements and that's what I did.

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  • 5 months later...
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It now has been 5 years since my last dose of Klonopin. So much has happened since then. My Set back with a blood pressure pill in 2017 really showed me that there is more to this then what people think they know. Akathisia. But one thing I know which is personal proof about healing. I had things I could not take or eat. Vitamins and supplements. What I have noticed is that little by little I am losing my "allergies".

 

Even though I don't have the symptoms I used to have I know from experience that something can happen due to the damage. So I really don't know if I am healed 100 percent because I am staying away from all medications and if I do that I have no symptoms. 

 

Like the food and supplements I do think reactions to certain medications are likely to lesson and disappear. I got the flu in December and recovered. I am having hormone changes and seem to have symptoms other non-benzo WD women do.

 

I hope that more attention is brought forward but I do believe that time is so important. I do think people heal even if they are on other medications but possibly slower. Either way the brain is programmed to heal and it always trying to get back to the baseline.

 

One thing for sure, my memory is so much better and my short term memory seems to be back to normal. My sleep is not great, but that can be accounted for with the hormones.  This is great because I have had 4 separate cases of Akathisia.

1st Compozine in the ER for food poisoning

2nd Surgery medications

3rd Benzo withdrawal

4th Blood pressure pills manufacturer changed (adverse) then switched to a channel calcium blocker (full fledged Akathisia)

 

Look at that, all above, not even including the Lexapro 2 failed tapers and then a third taper. And I still got better.

 

You will too. Your fear is actually normal for what your brain is doing and that is healing. So it’s normal, your fear of not healing or all those other one thousand fears that run through your thoughts. That’s all it is.  A symptom of benzo withdrawal. 

 

My chosen line to tell a Doctor : “My goal is to see a Doctor and not get further injured”.

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Thanks so much for coming back to update us, Kay! It sounds like you're doing really well, and that's wonderful news. Thanks, too, for the encouragement. I, for one, can use it.  :-*
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I have not come to this forum on a regular basis. Due to the many opinions of taper methods I stayed away. At first I sifted through the many opinions. I did join Jana's group in July/Aug 2013  to start micro tapering. But I rather like the term “Daily Tapering”.

 

The taper was the right choice for me. I left the group midway and just took care of myself for the rest of the taper which was considerably many months.  I found certain things not true on my own and other things very helpful.

 

I started tapering the last day in July 2013 by December 2013 I was noticing lots of improvements however I did go through two frozen shoulders, one at a time and that was painful.

 

I had all the symptoms most people list so I am not going to list every single symptom.

 

If I can look back most my psychological symptoms faded away in December 2013. I now consider that a phase one. Phase two was the pain phase, nerve pain, arm pain muscle pain and all that started to fade by October 2014 in fact I had hardly any symptoms so end of phase two and onto phase three which was the healing phase. I lost all my symptoms except for fatigue and started to improve dramatically after October 2014. I was tapering but the only thing that reminded me was taking the actual doses and being fatigued, other than that I felt pretty normal, I still had dry hair and skin though.

 

My taper took 15 months for .50mg Klonopin.

 

Did I heal before my last drop of a dose because of the taper?

 

Or was it because of the time it took?

 

Would I have healed in the total time of 15 months if I tapered faster? I will never know.

 

Am I totally healed now? I would say yes to all the withdrawal symptoms however I feel that I am returning slowly to homeostasis.

 

I am happy that I did it this way because I wanted the safest taper possible I could find and even though this was incredibly slow it delivered what I wanted. I was tapering and able to regain a lot of my life and function while tapering. If I had to go back and do it over again I would do exactly how I did it.

 

I was on Klonopin for over 20 years and in my opinion this was the best plan for my situation.

 

The first time I tapered I tapered 5 percent every two weeks and I got down to .25mg a day. I held for eight months due to my best fried passing away.  Then one morning about 3:00am I woke up in a bolt of blind terror. I had no idea I was in acute tolerance withdrawal. After about a week of that I went to the ER, I had no idea it was the klonopin because I was still taking .25mg a day.

 

The ER Doctor gave me .50mg of Klonopin and when I got relief of my symptoms I realized that what I experienced was klonopin withdrawal. The ER Doctor did not tell me I was in withdrawal all he said was to throw out the rest of my klonopin and he wrote a prescription for seven days of Xanax. I tore up that prescription and called my prescribing doctor who then told me it was break through anxiety and just upped my klonopin to .50mgs 3 x a day.  I knew it was withdrawal and I only took .50mg twice a day for two days when it hit me that this will just happen again in the future. I went back to .50mg a day and started to look for taper types and learned about daily tapering. I took my .50mg dose and put it in whole milk and divided it up to take three times a day, I did this for a month because  that helped me to be stable.

 

I started out tapering at .0005mg a day August 2013 then doubled that to .001mg in November 2013 and decided to stay there for as long as I could.

 

I did not have to slow down towards the end, in fact towards the end I felt really normal. All I had towards the end was fatigue.

 

I keep seeing posts of people saying that slow tapers have to face acute after their tapers and this did not happen to me at all! So it is not true everyone faces acute even if they do a very slow taper. How slow do you think tapering slow is?

 

This taper might not be for everyone but it was the best one for me. I don't have fear of acute anymore, I have freedom from withdrawal and doctors. All my phobias disappeared.  even my phobias I had before withdrawal and before I ever took a benzo.

 

My hair is starting to thicken and the dry part is softening up some.

 

My shoulders are still sore from the frozen shoulders episodes, I hope with exercise my muscle will return. I have already been exercising while tapering and have upped my exercise now and I am building up my muscle mass.  Exercise energizes me now, instead of wearing me out. My skin is making me happy now, no more dry skin (I was so sick of the dry skin) .

 

I do not have any withdrawal anxiety whatsoever.

I do not have any depression whatsoever.

I sleep like a rock now and wake up feeling good and do not have that tired and wired feeling.

I have had coffee and sometimes I feel jittery and sometimes I feel fine,  so I don't know what that means.

 

I will not drink now, maybe will try in a year.

 

I never doubted that the taper would not work, but it took such a hell of a long time that I felt it would never end. But it does end and we do heal, maybe not when we wish but it does and when it does it is wonderful and worth it.

 

I do think it took me such a long time and that was a bummer, however I was able to function like anyone else and that was the plan, I had no idea it would take 15 months. But in my mind I had to pick from fast and non functional or slow taper and fully functional.

 

Congrats... I just finished last week..  Now if I can get that dang ticker to work.  🤦‍♀️😂 :thumbsup::smitten:

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Thank you, Kay2020, for sharing your update and insights with us.  I am sorry to learn about your episodes of akathisia (it sounds like a horrific condition), but I’m delighted your memory has improved.  That must be a major relief for you!

 

Might I tap your “experiential expertise”?

 

As I’m sure you know, tapering clonazepam is problematic because of its high potency and the limited, FDA-approved dose and format options available in the US (e.g. in contrast to alprazolam, lorazepam, and diazepam, an FDA-approved oral solution of clonazepam is not available).  So, it is especially important for us to learn from members such as yourself who found a way to taper this particular benzodiazepine successfully.

 

Based on what I’ve read here and elsewhere, milk has a solid track record when used to prepare a homemade liquid with clonazepam. Your experience supports this.  Can you tell us more? 

 

Did you use whole fat, homogenized milk as recommended?  Do you have any “tips and tricks” to share about using milk with clonazepam? (i.e. what worked/what didn’t, things to do/not do).  Other info or insights? 

 

Thank you in advance for sharing your experiential expertise with us!

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Libertas,

 

Whole milk was great for me. I do know people who can't do liquid so they got a real accurate expensive scale. and I know people who used water. I noticed the people with the scale and water go even slower. I like milk and it worked very well. I had the generic brand that was chalky and it just melted in the milk. people's who pill had a harder shiny surface had to be careful and make sure it all is absorbed. What I was told about milk was that the active ingredient was absorbed into the fat of the milk so that it was a solution and that people who used water had their benzo in a suspension so lots of shaking it up to try and keep it even. But I know many who did either and got off their benzo just fine.

 

Another thing I was told was to take magnesium and thankfully I didn't listen because it really messes with people even after taper. I get my magnesium through food. right now I know a few people suffering because of the magnesium problem after their taper. Some people disagree and some people know people in this situation. I believe these people and magnesium will dampen the glutamate receptors voltage in some people. Which is why taking high doses would make someone feel better but as with everything there could be a cost in some.

 

I hope that helps.

Kay

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Libertas

 

I do know someone tapering and using liquid klonopin. So it's brand name. I didn't think it existed but it does. It's made just like Liquid Valium.

 

Kay

 

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Thanks so much for coming back to update us, Kay! It sounds like you're doing really well, and that's wonderful news. Thanks, too, for the encouragement. I, for one, can use it.  :-*

 

I have to tell You Lapis, my brother CTed cymbalta and 4 other drugs including ativan  he had been taking for years. So you know it went bad for him for some time. But he has lost all his symptoms he thought he was stuck with even the hissing, the boat like dizziness and others. Because he was on high doses for many years it took some time for him it was a total of 5 years, but in those 5 years things dropped off. Back then 2009 I had my Doctor look at his prescriptions and he was shocked at how high. My brother blamed the cymbalta for some reason.

 

I have a nephew who took cymbalta. He tapered for 6 weeks. And he is great today. He is in top physical shape he has to be because he is a US Marine!  And you know all the shots they make him get. He is doing well.

 

They are not just lucky and with my brother there were times we thought it would be forever, or many many years. And well he healed. Try to remember that. And I asked my brother and he said one day he got up and it was all gone. For me it was over time. So we can't let other people's bad times make us think that we are doomed.

 

This is what I told myself ---> No matter how you feel you must have a life during this.

 

Kay

 

 

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Thanks so much for coming back to update us, Kay! It sounds like you're doing really well, and that's wonderful news. Thanks, too, for the encouragement. I, for one, can use it.  :-*

 

I have to tell You Lapis, my brother CTed cymbalta and 4 other drugs including ativan  he had been taking for years. So you know it went bad for him for some time. But he has lost all his symptoms he thought he was stuck with even the hissing, the boat like dizziness and others. Because he was on high doses for many years it took some time for him it was a total of 5 years, but in those 5 years things dropped off. Back then 2009 I had my Doctor look at his prescriptions and he was shocked at how high. My brother blamed the cymbalta for some reason.

 

I have a nephew who took cymbalta. He tapered for 6 weeks. And he is great today. He is in top physical shape he has to be because he is a US Marine!  And you know all the shots they make him get. He is doing well.

 

They are not just lucky and with my brother there were times we thought it would be forever, or many many years. And well he healed. Try to remember that. And I asked my brother and he said one day he got up and it was all gone. For me it was over time. So we can't let other people's bad times make us think that we are doomed.

 

This is what I told myself ---> No matter how you feel you must have a life during this.

 

Kay

 

Amazing stories, Kay, thank you! I'd been on benzos for a few years when I started Cymbalta, and that's actually when my dizziness started in earnest. I'd had a bit of it before then, but that's when it became more noticeable and debilitating. In my case, I think there was a confluence of factors, i.e. multiple meds.

 

It's years later, and I'm still dizzy. It has become excruciatingly painful for my muscles. I've been crying in pain for the last four hours, so it's good to hear a bit of positive news. Having battled dizziness, near-falls, excruciating muscle pain, plus a dizziness-induced fracture in my foot, I'm exhausted and overwhelmed. Either the dizziness goes, or I go, but this is unbearable. My spirit is broken.

 

Thanks again for sharing those uplifting stories, Kay. Very kind of you to take the time.

 

 

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Libertas

 

I do know someone tapering and using liquid klonopin. So it's brand name. I didn't think it existed but it does. It's made just like Liquid Valium.

 

Kay

 

Hello, Kay. Thanks ever so for responding and for the tip that clonazepam tablets from different manufacturers vary in terms of how quickly/well they disintegrate in milk.  I’ve read here and elsewhere that a fix for this is to add a sufficient amount of water to the tablet(s) first to “jump start” the disintegration process before adding the milk.

 

Alas, I just double checked DailyMed and Genentech (the Roche subsidiary that manufacturers brand Klonopin in the US) and do not see a product listing for an oral solution of clonazepam.

 

Roche does indeed make an oral solution of clonazepam named Rivotril but it is only available in certain countries (New Zealand comes to mind), not the US.

 

So, if the person you know is US-based, I’m wondering if s/he is using a prescription compounded liquid made with brand name Klonopin tablets?

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Yes, thank Kay for the update. So great to hear you are well and to read your encouragement. I am 6 mo off now and feeling much better but still a ways to go, even though I'm not on any other meds at the moment.  Stay strong and keep in touch!
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Lapis2,

Yes it is very painful. More than anyone can imagine. Cymbalta WD is very very very painful. I saw this with my brother. Its the one big bad thing about cymbalta WD. I had klonopin WD pain, I think Cymbalta pain must be worse. Try to hang in there!

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Yes she is in the US and it is Klonopin liquid. I don't know the manufacturers info.

 

Kay

 

 

Libertas

 

I do know someone tapering and using liquid klonopin. So it's brand name. I didn't think it existed but it does. It's made just like Liquid Valium.

 

Kay

 

Hello, Kay. Thanks ever so for responding and for the tip that clonazepam tablets from different manufacturers vary in terms of how quickly/well they disintegrate in milk.  I’ve read here and elsewhere that a fix for this is to add a sufficient amount of water to the tablet(s) first to “jump start” the disintegration process before adding the milk.

 

Alas, I just double checked DailyMed and Genentech (the Roche subsidiary that manufacturers brand Klonopin in the US) and do not see a product listing for an oral solution of clonazepam.

 

Roche does indeed make an oral solution of clonazepam named Rivotril but it is only available in certain countries (New Zealand comes to mind), not the US.

 

So, if the person you know is US-based, I’m wondering if s/he is using a prescription compounded liquid made with brand name Klonopin tablets?

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Lapis2,

Yes it is very painful. More than anyone can imagine. Cymbalta WD is very very very painful. I saw this with my brother. Its the one big bad thing about cymbalta WD. I had klonopin WD pain, I think Cymbalta pain must be worse. Try to hang in there!

 

Thanks, Kay. I'm doing my best.  :smitten:

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Thanks for posting your success story, it is inspirational.

 

I start my taper Mar 1st form 0.25/day clonazepam. The plan I have layed out will take me about 7.5 months to complete but I realize it may take longer.

 

Almost everyone says to go slow and you should have better results so that is what I plan to do.

 

Congrats!  :D

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[b2...]

Nizzy

 

Once searching this site I looked for people's tapering regrets and almost every single one regretted fast tapering or cold turkey. I don't think I ever ran across someone regretting slow tapering and if they do you have to ask yourself how slow is slow? Some people think they are slow and in my experience seems fast to me.  I think your time frame is good, even tiny reductions help the brain get on board in my opinion. I also spread the doses out 3 times a day and after I did that I felt better.

 

My last benzo taper worked well, my first one was a liquid 5 percent reduction every two weeks failed and causes akathisia for going too fast. I was at .50mg with that one and made it to .25mg and crashed. With the last and successful taper I had none of that and I started that one two months after my horrible failed taper. I have been told by doctors that the brain like pattern. I think a gentile pattern for the brain to follow is the best thing instead of large cuts and holds. But that's my opinion.

 

The one thing I was not aware of afterwards is the sensitivity to a lot of other medications afterwards. And also supplements. Good news is that is also not permanent.

 

 

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  • 1 year later...
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It has been over 6 years now. Wow I forgot about the anniversary.  :) I am doing well. back in 2017 they changed the makers of my blood pressure pill. I was put on because of WD.  I had a bad reaction, it was exactly like acute benzo withdrawal, the doctor tried out 3 more pills, I had allergic reactions and one of them, a channel calcium blocker cause a full blown case of akathisia for about 8 months, little did I know channel calcium can cause akathisia.

 

Other than that from 2015 - 2017 I had zero symptoms. Then after the akathisia left I slowly got better. I stayed away from medications and well I don't know if that was the right decision but after the months of akathisia and not being able to stop walking I just could not take any pill for anything.  I go months at a time without thinking about WD and this whole experience. I still have not taken any medication, I am not saying that is the answer, but I don't and won't take a chance unless I absolutely have to.

 

Therapy helped me  a great deal. I have to say PTSD type of therapy was a perfect fit. I guess anyone who went through this would be traumatized. 

 

I remember what my Husband said when I was lingering in not the worse and not the best state, he said "We have to have a life in spite of". Even though I was suffering we tried to have some normal things in our daily life. I think it helped me backed then and it is one thing I keep remembering.

 

A little normalcy, or larger part in your day is a good thing. It keeps you apart of the world.  Some days you won't be able and some days it will bring some relief, either way it is a great way to gradually come back into the world. And you will. You might think you are that unlucky one that won't heal or not heal all the way. But that is a fear talking not the truth.

 

 

Kay

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
Can you please tell me which method of taper you used? Dry cut or liquid? and if so did you use alcohol as solvent?
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  • 1 month later...
[b2...]

Rex,

yes I did the liquid taper. .001mg per deduction a day, I started half that and then in a few months went to .001mg a day, as time went on My symptoms improves, by the time I reached the end I had no symptoms. for two years I was perfect. then I woke up in acute again, it took 45 days to realize my blood pressure pill was changed and I was having an adverse reaction, then I could not take any class, because they put me on a channel calcium blocker and I went into akathisia. that was in 2017.

 

But I am here today to report that I am now at 100 percent. I do not have any symptoms. I feel as if I didn't have that thing happen to me in 2017 I would have been in this state of no symptoms far longer.  So no anxiety, no insomnia, no nerve pains, not anything. When I go to bed I go to sleep. I am still avoiding medications.

 

But for me this is it, I feel as good before this happened, except for doctors, everything else is fine now.

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  • 5 weeks later...
[b2...]

Thanks Butterfly19, I wish you a successful taper this time, I had a failed one before the one that worked.

 

Kay

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