From theory to practice: diazepam's short duration of action, long half life

Several sources on the internet claim that the duration of action of a single dose of diazepam is 3-6 hours.

 

While diazepam's half life is often touted as being beneficial, how much of an effect does it really have ?

 

Clonazepam has a very long duration of action, from 12-24 hours. Many people who have been on this drug and cross over to diazepam run into problems.

 

I have tried tapering clonazepam with lorazepam. Not a good thing. (too bad they don't have the liquid suspension over here  ) The duration of action of lorazepam is shorter, but longer than diazepam's. I'be be worried switching to diazepam for that reason alone.

 

What do you people think ?

For people who switched from clonazepam to diazepam: how do you deal with diazepam's shorter duration of action ?

split the doses and take more frequently.  At least thats what i did.  I think at one point i was dosing 3 times a day.  I crossed over from ativan tho not klonopin.

Lorazepam is more short acting, though ?

 

For me, clonazepam lasts a day.

 

Say, if diazepam would last 6 hours and if I were to dose 3x a day I could imagine this would be an issue !

I get what you are saying but I started with a c/o to valium, taking it once a day.  I then, like you discovered duration of action and found that I got a lot of relief cutting it 3 times aday.  I didn't experience the same level of interdose w/d with valium as I did with Ativan.  I think Ativan kicks in and then crashes.  I think valium doesn't kick in as intensely but also doesn't crash as badly.  But again, like you, I was flying by the seat of my pants.  Again, all I know was that splitting the dose gave me more relief then 1 time a day. Ultimately I cut the last 5 mgs but dosing 2 times a day.  So I don't know that comparing valium as if it behaved like Ativan is accurate.

Several sources on the internet claim that the duration of action of a single dose of diazepam is 3-6 hours.

 

While diazepam's half life is often touted as being beneficial, how much of an effect does it really have ?

 

Clonazepam has a very long duration of action, from 12-24 hours. Many people who have been on this drug and cross over to diazepam run into problems.

 

I have tried tapering clonazepam with lorazepam. Not a good thing. (too bad they don't have the liquid suspension over here  ) The duration of action of lorazepam is shorter, but longer than diazepam's. I'be be worried switching to diazepam for that reason alone.

 

What do you people think ?

For people who switched from clonazepam to diazepam: how do you deal with diazepam's shorter duration of action ?

 

You know that is really interesting because when I reinstated after this last CT I was flipping out taking diazepam... it lasts like 2 hours for me. I can dose a huuuuuuuge amount and in 2 hours boom gone. I thought it was a metabolization issue (still haven't ruled it out), so I tried Ativan...it lasted 6 freaking hours. Yes 6. Did I like the doped feeling? Hell no, but did it relieve a lot of my symptoms for much longer...yep. It really makes me question if I should switch, it's also metabolized differently and doesn't have the metabolites that some people can't tolerate. It also has anti nausea properties and when I still had some and would get slammed and nauseous I would take some Ativan and it made me feel so much better.

Btw I was a K to V crossover fail. Hardcore fail...and K used to last like a hour or two for me tops. I thought switching to V would be better because I thought it would get rid of the interdose w/d etc.. haaaaaaaa.

K used to last two hours ??

 

Seriously ?

 

Perhaps that had something to do with the alcohol ?

 

Clonazepam can have a short peak effect, but the anxiolytic effect is supposed to last at least 8-12 hours, the anticonvulsant effects up to 24 hours.

Hi Liberty.

I have switched from K to V and have duration of action issues. Has to do with the way the drug is metabolized. Was wishing V was different. I dose 3 times a day but not sure it is serving me well just not sure what else to do. K was too stinking strong to taper and the milk thing didn't work for me.

Basically stuck cam using magnesium to help get through interdose stuff but really may not work.

Also, my K initially worked almost a day.  Then down to about 6 hours over time. I think other stuff ends up changing in our bodies. I think people who are on V and have to dose more than once a day think they are doing something wrong. But lots more out there than others realize. The norm of once a day is not always normal. Nothing is in my book!

 

Hope the lorazepam works for you!

Selah

They are in fact metabolized differently. Ativan is processed more in the kidneys and valium in the liver. In fact Ativan, temazepam and one other are used specifically for people with liver impairment issues.

 

It's possible that other medicines can cause the metabolism of valium to increase or slow down.  For me I was on birth control When I was on Ativan there was no problem taking birth control. But the reason I my cross overs to valium were so challenging was that there was some conflict in my liver between the valium and the birth control which made the birth control no longer work. I think they were competing in the liver. And for me, birth control lost the battle.  However at a lower dose of valium that stopped.

K used to last two hours ??

 

Seriously ?

 

Perhaps that had something to do with the alcohol ?

 

Clonazepam can have a short peak effect, but the anxiolytic effect is supposed to last at least 8-12 hours, the anticonvulsant effects up to 24 hours.

 

Yep K lasted 2 hours...even when I took 2mg of it. It metabolizes in the liver just like Valium like I said I think I have metabolization issues because I can dose huge doses and they just make me feel doped up, nuts and wear off in 2 hours.

Diazepam has a 3-6 hour window, but the things that it is metabolized into in the liver, include other active benzos like temazepam. So, when you take it, you get some effect from the diazepam, and then in theory, you subsequently get further effects from the other drugs that are created when your liver breaks down the diazepam.

 

Clonazepam is comparatively simple, in that it has a 24-36 hour half life, and is then metabolized into inactive compounds.

 

I think that there may be a lot of variability, in how people metabolize and process diazepam, and the degree to which it gets long legs from its active metabolites. Genetics, dosing habits, body weight and other factors may influence all of this.

 

In my case I was able to cross over from clonazepam to diazepam without too much trouble. I also noticed that I felt my diazepam dose cuts at 4-5 days post cut, and then again like clockwork at 11-12 days post cut. This led me to believe that I was indeed dealing with a cascading withdrawal from several different drugs (implying that my liver was, indeed, turning the valium into other active drugs on the way out the door).

Diazepam has a 3-6 hour window, but the things that it is metabolized into in the liver, include other active benzos like temazepam. So, when you take it, you get some effect from the diazepam, and then in theory, you subsequently get further effects from the other drugs that are created when your liver breaks down the diazepam.

 

Clonazepam is comparatively simple, in that it has a 24-36 hour half life, and is then metabolized into inactive compounds.

 

I think that there may be a lot of variability, in how people metabolize and process diazepam, and the degree to which it gets long legs from its active metabolites. Genetics, dosing habits, body weight and other factors may influence all of this.

 

In my case I was able to cross over from clonazepam to diazepam without too much trouble. I also noticed that I felt my diazepam dose cuts at 4-5 days post cut, and then again like clockwork at 11-12 days post cut. This led me to believe that I was indeed dealing with a cascading withdrawal from several different drugs (implying that my liver was, indeed, turning the valium into other active drugs on the way out the door).

 

Are you healed? I need hope today, badly. My brain is freaking out. I'm so afraid this will be un doable and will never end.

 

Are you healed? I need hope today, badly. My brain is freaking out. I'm so afraid this will be un doable and will never end.

 

yeah, success story is here: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=118562.0

 

good luck, it gets better, it just takes an unreasonable amount of time to do so in some cases.

 

Are you healed? I need hope today, badly. My brain is freaking out. I'm so afraid this will be un doable and will never end.

 

yeah, success story is here: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=118562.0

 

good luck, it gets better, it just takes an unreasonable amount of time to do so in some cases.

 

Thank you so much. Headed to your link right now. 

Several sources on the internet claim that the duration of action of a single dose of diazepam is 3-6 hours.

 

While diazepam's half life is often touted as being beneficial, how much of an effect does it really have ?

 

Clonazepam has a very long duration of action, from 12-24 hours. Many people who have been on this drug and cross over to diazepam run into problems.

 

I have tried tapering clonazepam with lorazepam. Not a good thing. (too bad they don't have the liquid suspension over here  ) The duration of action of lorazepam is shorter, but longer than diazepam's. I'be be worried switching to diazepam for that reason alone.

 

What do you people think ?

For people who switched from clonazepam to diazepam: how do you deal with diazepam's shorter duration of action ?

 

Hello Liberty.  Duration of action is not well established for individual benzos. 

 

I suggest that diazepam's duration of action is longer than lorazepam's.  There is a study comparing plasma levels of a *single* dose of lorazepam and diazepam.  Multiple dosing would show a different relationship.  What's more, this study did not deal with duration of action. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6131586. 

 

I tend to see clonazepam and diazepam as having broadly similar duration of action.  If you can manage the mechanics of tapering from clonazepam then, speaking personally, I would do that rather than switch once again to diazepam.

 

Diazepam builds up more slowly than clonazepam and this shows up as unresponsiveness when regulating your taper and when making corrections.

 

If your dislike of clonazepam is due to tolerance then I wonder if that tolerance would carry over to a different benzo?

 

 

 

In my case I was able to cross over from clonazepam to diazepam without too much trouble. I also noticed that I felt my diazepam dose cuts at 4-5 days post cut, and then again like clockwork at 11-12 days post cut. This led me to believe that I was indeed dealing with a cascading withdrawal from several different drugs (implying that my liver was, indeed, turning the valium into other active drugs on the way out the door).

 

Excellent point, Xerxes.  That almost argues for not using diazepam if you don't want to deal with "aftershocks" following a cut.

 

 

 

 

In my case I was able to cross over from clonazepam to diazepam without too much trouble. I also noticed that I felt my diazepam dose cuts at 4-5 days post cut, and then again like clockwork at 11-12 days post cut. This led me to believe that I was indeed dealing with a cascading withdrawal from several different drugs (implying that my liver was, indeed, turning the valium into other active drugs on the way out the door).

 

Excellent point, Xerxes.  That almost argues for not using diazepam if you don't want to deal with "aftershocks" following a cut.

 

well... I don't know. The aftershocks from V were tolerable for me. Cutting K directly was not.

In my case I was able to cross over from clonazepam to diazepam without too much trouble. I also noticed that I felt my diazepam dose cuts at 4-5 days post cut, and then again like clockwork at 11-12 days post cut. This led me to believe that I was indeed dealing with a cascading withdrawal from several different drugs (implying that my liver was, indeed, turning the valium into other active drugs on the way out the door).

 

Excellent point, Xerxes.  That almost argues for not using diazepam if you don't want to deal with "aftershocks" following a cut.

 

well... I don't know. The aftershocks from V were tolerable for me. Cutting K directly was not.

 

Hi Xerxes.  When I referred to dealing with aftershocks, it is not to their intensity but to the confusing picture they could create in someone trying to interpret their response to cuts.

 

 

 

 

Several sources on the internet claim that the duration of action of a single dose of diazepam is 3-6 hours.

 

While diazepam's half life is often touted as being beneficial, how much of an effect does it really have ?

 

Clonazepam has a very long duration of action, from 12-24 hours. Many people who have been on this drug and cross over to diazepam run into problems.

 

I have tried tapering clonazepam with lorazepam. Not a good thing. (too bad they don't have the liquid suspension over here  ) The duration of action of lorazepam is shorter, but longer than diazepam's. I'be be worried switching to diazepam for that reason alone.

 

What do you people think ?

For people who switched from clonazepam to diazepam: how do you deal with diazepam's shorter duration of action ?

 

Hello Liberty.  Duration of action is not well established for individual benzos. 

 

I suggest that diazepam's duration of action is longer than lorazepam's.  There is a study comparing plasma levels of a *single* dose of lorazepam and diazepam.  Multiple dosing would show a different relationship.  What's more, this study did not deal with duration of action. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6131586. 

 

I tend to see clonazepam and diazepam as having broadly similar duration of action.  If you can manage the mechanics of tapering from clonazepam then, speaking personally, I would do that rather than switch once again to diazepam.

 

Diazepam builds up more slowly than clonazepam and this shows up as unresponsiveness when regulating your taper and when making corrections.

 

If your dislike of clonazepam is due to tolerance then I wonder if that tolerance would carry over to a different benzo?

 

Diazepam is a bit difficult in the sense that is has a short duration of action, but a long half life. After cumulative dosing what's left beyond the "half life" certainly will do something; but is it enough ? For many people, one single dose won't cut it.

Especially with clonazepam, which lasted 24 hours.

 

Clonazepam has some complicated pharmacokinetics, which I don't fully understand !

 

My dislike for clonazepam is not due to tolerance.  It's just a rotten, difficult and unpredictable drug. Oh well, too much to tell !

It has some complex action locally in the brain, it affects serotonin, acetylcholine/cholinergic neurons. Up to a point, I believe it has the ability to sensitize  neurons, especially cholinergic neurons, which is always great fun. (feel free to explore "cholinergic hypersensitivity" and "cholinergic supersenstivity")

 

Still, I would have tapered it directly except for one issue (a specific physical matter that I don't feel comfortable sharing and I just don't see the point). Now I'm in deeper trouble with lorazepam. The damage done by the clonazepam obviously hasn't gone away.

Diazepam is a bit difficult in the sense that is has a short duration of action, but a long half life. After cumulative dosing what's left beyond the "half life" certainly will do something; but is it enough ? For many people, one single dose won't cut it.

 

Especially with clonazepam, which lasted 24 hours.

 

Clonazepam has some complicated pharmacokinetics, which I don't fully understand !

 

My dislike for clonazepam is not due to tolerance.  It's just a rotten, difficult and unpredictable drug. Oh well, too much to tell !

 

It has some complex action locally in the brain, it affects serotonin, acetylcholine/cholinergic neurons. Up to a point, I believe it has the ability to sensitize  neurons, especially cholinergic neurons, which is always great fun. (feel free to explore "cholinergic hypersensitivity" and "cholinergic supersenstivity")

 

Still, I would have tapered it directly except for one issue (a specific physical matter that I don't feel comfortable sharing and I just don't see the point). Now I'm in deeper trouble with lorazepam. The damage done by the clonazepam obviously hasn't gone away.

 

 

Hello Liberty.  My understanding is that all benzo withdrawal can cause a neurochemical cascade which starts with GABA/glutamate disruption and then goes on causing various additional layers of imbalance between other neurochemicals. 

 

It has been suggested that acetylcholine/dopamine disruption is a common end point in an extremely large number of adverse medical conditions (not just pharmacological ones like benzos).  I don't think any one benzo is especially likely to do this or especially unlikely to do this - although long acting benzos are sometimes said to be worse culprits. 

 

During withdrawal I had a lot of trouble with acetylcholine levels which caused horrible chronic states of cognitive confusion but I should have also tried to identify other medical causes for this burden not limited to anticholinergic effects of other meds.

 

If you really don't like clonazepam then I guess you need to change.  Personally, I wish I had gone from my benzo to clonazepam rather than to diazepam.

 

As you initially asked about half lives and duration of action then you may be interested in this web page.  Table 1 has some estimated durations of action for single doses. http://www.thecarlatreport.com/free_articles/benzodiazepines-guide-safe-prescribing

 

 

 

Clonazepam is a bit worse because of its unique action in the thalamic reticular nucleus,  where it (locally or elsewhere?) has some effect on serotonin, mediated by action on GABAB.

 

There is a balance between serotonin and acetylcholine (other neurotransmitters as well, of course). Let's say I have some experience ...

 

But change to what, that's the issue.

 

Interesting chart ... the duration of action for lorazepam is a bit short, isn't it  ! 4-6 hours ... Even for me, it isn't THAT short acting ! 80 hours for clonazepam ... that would be gruelling.

 

 

Diazepam is a bit difficult in the sense that is has a short duration of action, but a long half life. After cumulative dosing what's left beyond the "half life" certainly will do something; but is it enough ? For many people, one single dose won't cut it.

 

Especially with clonazepam, which lasted 24 hours.

 

Clonazepam has some complicated pharmacokinetics, which I don't fully understand !

 

My dislike for clonazepam is not due to tolerance.  It's just a rotten, difficult and unpredictable drug. Oh well, too much to tell !

 

It has some complex action locally in the brain, it affects serotonin, acetylcholine/cholinergic neurons. Up to a point, I believe it has the ability to sensitize  neurons, especially cholinergic neurons, which is always great fun. (feel free to explore "cholinergic hypersensitivity" and "cholinergic supersenstivity")

 

Still, I would have tapered it directly except for one issue (a specific physical matter that I don't feel comfortable sharing and I just don't see the point). Now I'm in deeper trouble with lorazepam. The damage done by the clonazepam obviously hasn't gone away.

 

 

Hello Liberty.  My understanding is that all benzo withdrawal can cause a neurochemical cascade which starts with GABA/glutamate disruption and then goes on causing various additional layers of imbalance between other neurochemicals. 

 

It has been suggested that acetylcholine/dopamine disruption is a common end point in an extremely large number of adverse medical conditions (not just pharmacological ones like benzos).  I don't think any one benzo is especially likely to do this or especially unlikely to do this - although long acting benzos are sometimes said to be worse culprits. 

 

During withdrawal I had a lot of trouble with acetylcholine levels which caused horrible chronic states of cognitive confusion but I should have also tried to identify other medical causes for this burden not limited to anticholinergic effects of other meds.

 

If you really don't like clonazepam then I guess you need to change.  Personally, I wish I had gone from my benzo to clonazepam rather than to diazepam.

 

As you initially asked about half lives and duration of action then you may be interested in this web page.  Table 1 has some estimated durations of action for single doses. http://www.thecarlatreport.com/free_articles/benzodiazepines-guide-safe-prescribing

 

Braban! I'm glad you said this out loud! I've been thinking all along, I hate V's half-life. Everything I do is a shot in the dark, and it feels like something horrible might be creeping up on me unaware and will SLAM me. Then how do I know how to fix it?

 

I've only been on V (this time ... Horrific c/t from 4 mg os Xanax about 5 yrs ago). If you were me, would you c/o to Clonaz? Or stick with the V?

 

Snow

Several sources on the internet claim that the duration of action of a single dose of diazepam is 3-6 hours.

 

While diazepam's half life is often touted as being beneficial, how much of an effect does it really have ?

 

Clonazepam has a very long duration of action, from 12-24 hours. Many people who have been on this drug and cross over to diazepam run into problems.

 

I have tried tapering clonazepam with lorazepam. Not a good thing. (too bad they don't have the liquid suspension over here  ) The duration of action of lorazepam is shorter, but longer than diazepam's. I'be be worried switching to diazepam for that reason alone.

 

What do you people think ?

For people who switched from clonazepam to diazepam: how do you deal with diazepam's shorter duration of action ?

 

All I know is what happened to me. C/O from K to Valium was the best decision I ever made....

Several sources on the internet claim that the duration of action of a single dose of diazepam is 3-6 hours.

 

While diazepam's half life is often touted as being beneficial, how much of an effect does it really have ?

 

Clonazepam has a very long duration of action, from 12-24 hours. Many people who have been on this drug and cross over to diazepam run into problems.

 

I have tried tapering clonazepam with lorazepam. Not a good thing. (too bad they don't have the liquid suspension over here  ) The duration of action of lorazepam is shorter, but longer than diazepam's. I'be be worried switching to diazepam for that reason alone.

 

What do you people think ?

For people who switched from clonazepam to diazepam: how do you deal with diazepam's shorter duration of action ?

 

Hello Liberty.  Duration of action is not well established for individual benzos. 

 

I suggest that diazepam's duration of action is longer than lorazepam's.  There is a study comparing plasma levels of a *single* dose of lorazepam and diazepam.  Multiple dosing would show a different relationship.  What's more, this study did not deal with duration of action. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6131586. 

 

I tend to see clonazepam and diazepam as having broadly similar duration of action.  If you can manage the mechanics of tapering from clonazepam then, speaking personally, I would do that rather than switch once again to diazepam.

 

Diazepam builds up more slowly than clonazepam and this shows up as unresponsiveness when regulating your taper and when making corrections.

 

If your dislike of clonazepam is due to tolerance then I wonder if that tolerance would carry over to a different benzo?

 

Did you taper from clonazepam or diazepam ?

 

'manage the mechanics of tapering', was clonazepam a fairly neutral drug for you ?

For me, it's difficult. There are some acute and some not so acute effects, and physical and mental effects that are more or less dose dependent.

Braban! I'm glad you said this out loud! I've been thinking all along, I hate V's half-life. Everything I do is a shot in the dark, and it feels like something horrible might be creeping up on me unaware and will SLAM me. Then how do I know how to fix it?

 

I've only been on V (this time ... Horrific c/t from 4 mg os Xanax about 5 yrs ago). If you were me, would you c/o to Clonaz? Or stick with the V?

 

Snow

 

Hello Snowstorm.  Clonazepam is processed by the body in a more straightforward way than diazepam and, to my way of thinking, it has other advantages.

 

However switching to clonazepam from diazepam is not without some potential risks.  For example, not everyone gets on with all benzos and you may or may not find clonazepam has more side effects.  Also, clonazepam comes in a very concentrated form which means it tablet size is small and needs careful mechanical handling or a liquid method to be split to the required dose.

 

Clonazepam still has a long half life and some accumulation in the body although not as much as diazepam.  I haven't taken clonazepam but have taken a related benzo although not for tapering.  It may be worth asking your question in the Klonopin Klub to get some personal experiences. By contrast, BenzoGirl has said, "C/O from K to Valium was the best decision I ever made."

 

I know that if I was still on my old sleeping tablets and had to choose a benzo to cross over to I would not choose diazepam but would go for clonazepam.  However that doesn't mean it is necessarily right for you.