Insomniac support group

Surprisingly, I don't see a support group on here for insomniacs. But I know there are some of us on here, because I regularly read and sometimes post on the Insomnia board.

 

Any fellow insomniacs interested in starting a new group, where we can offer tips and support or just have somewhere to vent or ramble during long sleepless nights?

Shira,

 

Pre benzo I had no insomnia issues.  When I do a cut and my CNS is a little out of wack, my brain jerks me back awake before I hit ypnosis.  Once in awhile I take 12mg traz.  Does traz work well for you?

 

What do people do post taper acute w/d with insomnia?  Tough through it?

Here I am back in the land of insomnia after being mostly fine for months. I got the flu and it's totally screwed me up. I didn't think of have to go through this bs again.

I did not have insomnia before benzo's but a few years ago some doctor just gave this when i was in the hospital. And then it started every time i was sick, so i got the benzo's again. Then got surgery and got valium for a longer time.

and every time i got sick i got the benzo's again, now i had the flu in january and got addicted. And it's only now i know that my insomnia is benzo related.

I think it will get better, as long as you stay away from the benzo's.

I do take trazodone every once and a while now when i've been awake for too long. Because I'm supertired after all this shit.

Arcade - I know exactly what you're talking about with those jerks that happen just before nodding off -- they're so disturbing, they keep me from falling asleep, sometimes all night long. Happens in the daytime too, but only if I'm trying to nap. I try to psych myself into not letting them bother me, but it's so hard to ignore, scary really...I've had very mixed success with trazodone. When alternating between traz and mirtazapine, I usually found I got less sleep on the traz nights, although for a while it seemed to even out. Then it just stopped working recently. Actually they both stopped working at about the same time. I even tried upping the dose to 50-mg, and still doesn't work anymore...My plan right now is to take some time off work and explore acupuncture and CBT, and try not to take anything for sleep. It's just so hard to not reach for something after multiple nights of 0 sleep. Tomorrow I have my 2nd acupuncture treatment this week -- am hoping it helps some.

 

Siggy - It seems to me that when we're still in a fragile state of recovery, the littlest thing can set us back unexpectedly. And the flu is more than just a little thing. So hopefully your insomnia will resolve when your body is entirely over the flu. I've been extremely fortunate in avoiding catching anything while tapering/recovering -- just one slight cold for a couple days.

 

Corsair - Congratulations on your recent jump!

 

Wishing us all a good night's sleep tonight...

My wife thinks now that I'm over the flu that it's just plane anxiety causing me not to sleep. Thoughts on that? I have no idea how to get rid I the anxiety about sleeping now. Doesn't make sense to be up three days and be dead tired and not just pass out asleep. Could it still from the flu remnants? Any suggestions? I've been to two acupuncture treatments and took some magnesium tonight. I really don't want to have to take a prescription meds. Antihistamines don't make me drowsy, so those are out as an option.

I have no problem passing out but right before I open the door to hypnosis my brain kicks me out.  I attribute it to withdrawal.  The CNS is still out of wack.  When I am stable on a dose I sleep fine.

 

I figure when I jump off the insomnia jerks will appear.  At some point the brain will give in and you will sleep.  Ashton even said it herself.

 

Another thought is that excersize might help. 

Yeah I figure eventually it would sort out, but I don't have the luxury of waiting. Not only to feel good and go about my life, I have a job that requires a lot of attention to detail. What if I down some booze? Guess it may not worth either, then it will really suck trying to function.

My wife thinks now that I'm over the flu that it's just plane anxiety causing me not to sleep. Thoughts on that? I have no idea how to get rid I the anxiety about sleeping now. Doesn't make sense to be up three days and be dead tired and not just pass out asleep. Could it still from the flu remnants? Any suggestions? I've been to two acupuncture treatments and took some magnesium tonight. I really don't want to have to take a prescription meds. Antihistamines don't make me drowsy, so those are out as an option.

 

It could be. When i had the flu, i totally flashback to my previous insomnia spells where i am scared that the insomnia will start again. Now I know, it was the combination of fear and withdrawal sx that came back. Now that i know i want to tough it out the next time. I wish i had known back then and didn't listen to the doctors who said i should go back to benzo's

You will not go throug these symptoms again, it was only the flu. So you shouldn't worry. Although it almost feels like ptsd to me, because it's such a trauma. (i mean in my case)

After two weeks of 0-3 hours of sleep a night, I tried taking 10 mg of Doxepin.  I was about to have an anxiety attack my cortisol was so high, crying non-stop, panicky, etc.  First night, made me really woozy and I intermittingly woke up throughout the night...however I feel like I got more sleep as I was able to drift off after my usual 1 am wakeup time.  The next morning I felt completely drugged, like I'd taken 20 benedryl.  It wore off about noon and I felt pretty good the rest of the day. 

 

Took it again last night but didn't feel like I slept as much as the last night.  Still on the fence if this is really worth the trouble.  One positive is that it has helped with my anxiety and I feel better during the day, even though my sleep has been so poor.

 

I'm looking into doing amino acid supplementation and my functional medicine doctor was able to determine I was low in certain amino acids which could have caused my post partum insomnia in the first place. Have any of you researched any of this?  I found the following: Patients with exhaustion and cerebral disorders often show a deficiency of glutamic acid. Anxiety, sleeplessness and lack of concentration are also connected to this. The body produces glutamine from glutamic acid and vice versa. Glutamine increases the production of GABA, gamma-amino-butyric acid. GABA is the most important inhibitory neurotransmitter of the brain. That means it acts like a lock keeper and inhibits signal transmissions between the nerve cells. It is like a natural sedative in the brain. If the body has enough glutamine available it can manufacture GABA. This has a positive impact: peace of mind, balance in stressful situations, improved concentration and restorative sleep. Glutamine also functions supportively in the treatment of depression.

 

She wants to put me on an amino acid supplement to help boost my neurotransmitters.  I am also starting to drink bone broth every day...a natural source of amino acids and just good for you. 

 

Thoughts?  Exercise is one more thing I have yet to try, although I have lost so much weight and so exhausted it's hard for me to muster up the energy.

Hi sniogra,

 

Yeah, the cortisol can really set us up. I think it's one of the big things that keep that cycle on insomnia going and making it worse. I take vitamin C everyday. It's really good at keeping your immune system strong, but it also has the benefit of counter acting cortisol. You can take large amounts with no worries too. Your body will just dump what it doesn't need.

 

I've also been taking aspirin, which should help reduce the cortisol inflammation. The cortisol has to be reduced way down to even have a chance of breaking out of the insomnia cycle. I know some people don't tolerate aspirin well, but possibly other NSAIDs could be used.

 

I agree about the amino acids. Nutrition is super important with our compromised CNS. I went to an acupuncturist twice this week and really think it helped a lot. He gave me some chinese herbal preparations to take as well. I started taking some Magnesium yesterday. So I'll see how that goes. Vitamin D is important too. I try to go out in the sun early in the evening when I get home. I work in an office building and I don't have any windows nearby. Exercise would be a big help, but I know how tough it can be when you feel so bad and have no stamina. Even going for a short walk helped me back when I was in acute dealing with this. It will certainly help if you have some depression.

 

Hope you start feeling better. Just keep at it.

 

All,

 

Good news.  Went for a long walk last night and got some sun a bit.  I was able to fall asleep by myself just fine but of course I woke up at 3am and the cortisol surge started.  But anyway, I was happy I fell asleep on my own.  I am still tapering so the Valium probably helped.  Most of you are done tapering or have done a C/T so I can imagine it would be more challenging.  I am researching what can possibly help with my cortisol surges.

Sniogra - That's surprising to me that such a low dose of doxepin helped you sleep. I tried doxepin during my taper with 0 success even at a higher dose...I'm interested in exploring functional medicine (one of the few things I haven't tried yet). Do you recommend it? Never heard of bone broth -- where do you find that? I am the same with exercise -- really want to do more, but am not in any shape most days.

 

How did you all do with sleep last night?

 

I had continuous spasms until 4 or 5 AM. Reached for the mirtazapine sometime after midnight, but didn't seem to help. Finally calmed down and fell asleep towards daylight and thankfully slept till almost noon, so feel better now (took off work today). My resolution for tonight: NO SLEEP MEDS. I hope I can stick to it; it's so hard!

Sniogra - That's surprising to me that such a low dose of doxepin helped you sleep. I tried doxepin during my taper with 0 success even at a higher dose...I'm interested in exploring functional medicine (one of the few things I haven't tried yet). Do you recommend it? Never heard of bone broth -- where do you find that? I am the same with exercise -- really want to do more, but am not in any shape most days.

 

How did you all do with sleep last night?

 

I had continuous spasms until 4 or 5 AM. Reached for the mirtazapine sometime after midnight, but didn't seem to help. Finally calmed down and fell asleep towards daylight and thankfully slept till almost noon, so feel better now (took off work today). My resolution for tonight: NO SLEEP MEDS. I hope I can stick to it; it's so hard!

 

Shirah, you got this. See if you can go outside get some sun and go for a walk.

I slept from 4am to 8am luckily.

All,

 

Good news.  Went for a long walk last night and got some sun a bit.  I was able to fall asleep by myself just fine but of course I woke up at 3am and the cortisol surge started.  But anyway, I was happy I fell asleep on my own.  I am still tapering so the Valium probably helped.  Most of you are done tapering or have done a C/T so I can imagine it would be more challenging.  I am researching what can possibly help with my cortisol surges.

 

That's great! Sleep typically will improve once you are off for a while. It all depends on how you slept before benzos, how long you were on, how you got off etc. I slept pretty well from months 3 - 9. I'm just recently been thrown back into hell from having the flu.

 

Vitamin C helps reduce Cortisol as well as NSAIDs reduce inflammation.

To give you a little background on how I started down the functional med. route: All my issues started post-partum w/ lack of sleep.  My baby had undiagnosed food allergies and woke up constantly at night. My sleep cycles were messed up... I was exhausted and my body shut down.  I started having neurological issues...numbness, tingling, & muscles spasms.  I went to two neurologists and had 5 MRI's, two EMG's, tested for Lyme, MS and other auto-immune diseases.  Everything came back normal.  I was a mess.  Was told by doctor after doctor it was just anxiety, and got a script to "help ease my symptoms."  The first neurologist gave me .5 Klonopin and Lyrica, I refused to take anything for an UNDIAGNOSED disorder.  Doc after doc had no answer....finally I found the support of a functional medicine doctor who is also a chiro/nutritionist.  She actually listened to me and believed that all my symptoms were due to a nutritional deficiency and stress/lack of sleep...CHRONIC FATIGUE syndrome (which is now just getting some recognition in Western medicine). She ran a micro-nutrient test that showed my body was deficient in many minerals, anti-oxidants, and amino acids.  I started supplementing w/ just glutathione, vitamin C, and Alpha Lipoic acid, desiccated adrenal gland and started to feel my symptoms lesson, was even sleeping some...BUT I still had some anxiety.  She told me it would take months for my body to start absorbing nutrients and for my cells to utilize the nutrients effectively.  I should have listened to her.

 

I got impatient.... and a couple weeks after starting supplements decided to go to an endocrine psychiatrist for help.  I wanted a quick fix.  HUGE MISTAKE.  She recommended Klonopin.  She said, "It's been around a long time....it will take the edge off, help calm your mind.  Non-habit forming, safe, no problems getting off, etc."  Everything I wanted to hear.  I started taking it and it seemed to help me sleep.  After a couple months I found myself "needing" it.  Then things started happening.  My initial neurological symptoms got way worse.  Different parts of my body would go completely numb, I felt ill, I was depressed, in a complete fog.  Started researching and realized what I had just done to my body.  I decided to taper on my own, working closely with an acupuncturist and chiro.

 

I truly believe the initial anxiety, sleep disorders we all have is linked to some kind of nutritional deficiency and imbalance.  I think food can be healing.  I changed my diet right when I started my taper and it went fairly smoothly (the taper).  A huge cloud lifted after that last pill, no depression.  Numbness and tingling nearly gone.

 

What's left? Insomnia.  And for me Insomnia=Anxiety.  It's a vicious cycle.  So for now, I'm trying to eat as healthy as I can.  No processed foods.  Paleoish diet.  It has helped.  My acupuncturist recommended I drink bone broth before every meal. http://draxe.com/the-healing-power-of-bone-broth-for-digestion-arthritis-and-cellulite/

It's easy to make and cheap.

 

Anywho, I'm trying to do everything right nutrition wise.  Although when you are tired it is very hard to eat healthy and nourish your body.  I'm going to keep at it.  Going to take the Doxepin again tonight, but go completely med-free Sat. night.  The Doxepin is not refreshing sleep but at least when my cortisol surges keep coming throughout the night, I drift off again.  Going to also do yoga and be active Saturday and see if that helps. 

 

Hope you all are getting some kind of sleep.  Some is better than nothing.  I would be grateful for four hours of uninterrupted sleep.

 

Good luck everyone!

To give you a little background on how I started down the functional med. route: All my issues started post-partum w/ lack of sleep.  My baby had undiagnosed food allergies and woke up constantly at night. My sleep cycles were messed up... I was exhausted and my body shut down.  I started having neurological issues...numbness, tingling, & muscles spasms.  I went to two neurologists and had 5 MRI's, two EMG's, tested for Lyme, MS and other auto-immune diseases.  Everything came back normal.  I was a mess.  Was told by doctor after doctor it was just anxiety, and got a script to "help ease my symptoms."  The first neurologist gave me .5 Klonopin and Lyrica, I refused to take anything for an UNDIAGNOSED disorder.  Doc after doc had no answer....finally I found the support of a functional medicine doctor who is also a chiro/nutritionist.  She actually listened to me and believed that all my symptoms were due to a nutritional deficiency and stress/lack of sleep...CHRONIC FATIGUE syndrome (which is now just getting some recognition in Western medicine). She ran a micro-nutrient test that showed my body was deficient in many minerals, anti-oxidants, and amino acids.  I started supplementing w/ just glutathione, vitamin C, and Alpha Lipoic acid, desiccated adrenal gland and started to feel my symptoms lesson, was even sleeping some...BUT I still had some anxiety.  She told me it would take months for my body to start absorbing nutrients and for my cells to utilize the nutrients effectively.  I should have listened to her.

 

I got impatient.... and a couple weeks after starting supplements decided to go to an endocrine psychiatrist for help.  I wanted a quick fix.  HUGE MISTAKE.  She recommended Klonopin.  She said, "It's been around a long time....it will take the edge off, help calm your mind.  Non-habit forming, safe, no problems getting off, etc."  Everything I wanted to hear.  I started taking it and it seemed to help me sleep.  After a couple months I found myself "needing" it.  Then things started happening.  My initial neurological symptoms got way worse.  Different parts of my body would go completely numb, I felt ill, I was depressed, in a complete fog.  Started researching and realized what I had just done to my body.  I decided to taper on my own, working closely with an acupuncturist and chiro.

 

I truly believe the initial anxiety, sleep disorders we all have is linked to some kind of nutritional deficiency and imbalance.  I think food can be healing.  I changed my diet right when I started my taper and it went fairly smoothly (the taper).  A huge cloud lifted after that last pill, no depression.  Numbness and tingling nearly gone.

 

What's left? Insomnia.  And for me Insomnia=Anxiety.  It's a vicious cycle.  So for now, I'm trying to eat as healthy as I can.  No processed foods.  Paleoish diet.  It has helped.  My acupuncturist recommended I drink bone broth before every meal. http://draxe.com/the-healing-power-of-bone-broth-for-digestion-arthritis-and-cellulite/

It's easy to make and cheap.

 

Anywho, I'm trying to do everything right nutrition wise.  Although when you are tired it is very hard to eat healthy and nourish your body.  I'm going to keep at it.  Going to take the Doxepin again tonight, but go completely med-free Sat. night.  The Doxepin is not refreshing sleep but at least when my cortisol surges keep coming throughout the night, I drift off again.  Going to also do yoga and be active Saturday and see if that helps. 

 

Hope you all are getting some kind of sleep.  Some is better than nothing.  I would be grateful for four hours of uninterrupted sleep.

 

Good luck everyone!

 

I recognize parts of your story. I had a pregnancy disease in which i could not keep anything down. But doctors didn't do anything. So i did not eat for almost 9 months. So i'm guessing i have a lot of deficiency too. Can you give any tips on food?

Corsair - Do you always make your own bone broth, or is store-bought chicken broth okay? I do try to avoid processed foods, but not 100%. Sometimes I'm just too weary to cook from scratch. I'd say I'm on about an 80% anti-inflammatory diet already (have not totally given up dairy or gluten)...Thanks for posting your story, also. Sounds so familiar, the part about the benzos not being a problem to get off of (right!). Maybe I will check out a functional medicine practitioner next.

 

Arcade - If only I could take a walk in the sunshine today! It's below freezing and snowing steadily here. So sick of this winter. It's supposed to be spring already. Good advice though, thanks.

Friday night: The good news is, I stuck to my resolve and went med-free last night. The bad news is, got no real sleep, just some of that in-between state of being semi-conscious of not being asleep but letting thoughts drift into something resembling dreams. Was hoping I'd eventually fall into real sleep towards morning, but no such luck.

 

What's really weird -- and this has happened before -- is that earlier in the evening while watching TV, I momentarily nodded off a bunch of times. But as soon as I got into bed, no such luck. Anyone have this happen?

 

So now I'm torn between toughing it out on no meds or alternating nights between taking something and not. And of course I feel like crap today, which makes decision-making harder.

 

So how was your sleep?

That happens to me a lot when I have sleep problems. I start nodding off around 9pm while sitting on the sofa. Then I get up to go to bed and I'm wide awake. I slept a broken 8 last night I think. I kept waking up and then falling back to sleep. My biggest problem is sleep onset. Usually if I wake up after sleeping, I don't have much problem falling back to sleep. It is a good sign though that you're nodding off like that. Your body is trying really hard to normalize. That happened in acute with me and a few weeks later I was sleeping every night unaided. It took a while to build back up to a steady 7-8 hours, but sleeping every night is a godsend as far as feeling better dealing with w/d. Hope yours improves soon!

So I decided not to take anything last night...

 

 

I slept FIVE hours straight!!! I still woke up at 3 am but I was giddy when I looked at the alarm clock.  If I hadn't looked at the time I just might have fallen back asleep. But then I was awake and read a book.  Drifted off again at 5 am for another 1.5 hours.

 

Here's what I used that I think helped---Epsom salt magnesium lotion. I put it on liberally before bed and was immediately calm and sleepy.  I decided to apply some more at 4:30 am and noticed again an immediate calmness although I got stuck in this weird REM state and felt kind of weird before drifting off.  Not sure if you can have too much magnesium.  I also drank a cup of holy basil tea which lowers cortisol levels and helped relieve the anxiety about sleeping.

 

Going to keep med free tonight.  Shira and siggy- you should give the lotion a shot.  You can buy it at Walmart I think.  I got mine through Amazon prime. 

 

I'll keep you posted about the tea and lotion.  Hoping to keep up this pattern 😬

Siggy-I am glad you are getting your sleep back that is a wonderful sign and it usually takes the longest to return back. My sleep is returning as well and I am only 11 weeks c/t off 5 mg of valium. My psch doc told me to get off my computer or iphone 2 hours before going to bed because the light stimulates the brain and you can't fall into a deep sleep. I always fall asleep in bed around 10:40 PM  and then I wake up about 11:00 PM to turn off my TV and I always fall back to sleep ASAP. One day last week I woke up at 11:00 PM and I felt so rested as if it was the morning..lol. I could not fall back to sleep until 12:30 AM so I listened to meditation oasis relax and sleep exercise and it works. I swear by it. I always wake up at 3:15 AM to go to the bathroom. Some nights I can fall back to sleep immediately and some nights it takes a little longer. I don't worry about it anymore and what's the big deal if I have to wake up once to go to the bathroom? It's normal at my age.

Fran

Sniogra - That's great that you got med-free sleep -- you must feel wonderful today! And thanks for the tips about the lotion and tea. I'll look into both.

 

Siggy - I really appreciate your saying that about it being a good sign nodding off watching TV. After another sleepless night, any little sign that gives hope is so needed -- like a life raft!

Sniogra, that's great you got some med free sleep and Siggy, I'm glad your sleep is normalizing. Always good to hear those things.

 

How much Vitamin C do you folks recommend? I got some today.

 

Shirah, I do the same thing with nodding off, having trouble staying awake and alert in the evening but then when it's bedtime it's like I've been snorting coffee beans. I've started doing all of my getting ready early so that when I start to feel even a little drowsy I don't have to risk waking myself up more by brushing my teeth, washing my face, and so on.

 

Have you guys heard of the computer and phone app twilight? It becomes active at 5 pm and then it filters out the blue light from your computer or phone. It's the blue light that hits the optic nerve and interferes with the release of melatonin (among other things so our brain thinks it's morning).It helps. Being awake so many hours gets BORING so I find it useful to still be able to surf the web late at night without risking making the insomnia worse--but I avoid emotionally activating sites.