Whatalife's escape from klonopin

Hi I need help...

 

I was on klonopin for 12yrs at .5 ....and was in tolerance for 11 years....I was stupid and cold turkeyed two times....and reinstated 8 wks later..stupid I know..but it was the high anxiety level that made me go back on cuz I couldn't stand it.

 

I thought reinstating and going slow would get rid of the high anxiety...it did somewhat and when I tapered very slowly...the anxiety became worse as I lowered....and now that I hit 38% off after taking 4 1/2 months ....then anxiety hit me hard as heck and it is unbearable again like in ct and I have 68% left to go on my benzo.  I am holding as I dunno what to do.

 

I held 7 days so far...and other stuff lessened but not my anxiety and so I get worried and the anxiety gets harder..someone said to take lexapro to help me get off the benzo the rest of the way but I am afraid of it...someone said I may have developed an anxiety disorder from the two ct's and worrying so much and losing my job and all that I need additional help?  I dunno..I am worried how to preceed from here. 

 

I am going so slow that the rate I am going if I begin again it will take me a year to complete cause I would slow down at the end..but I can't go further till the anxiety is less.

 

do I hold more or take lexapro or just keep cutting and hope the anxiety lessens..I am so scared I have myself worked up in a tizzy.

 

and how do I get off the rest of this?

 

 

It's been a while since I've been on here but late last year, Colin was the man to go to for taper scheduling recommendations.  Hopefully he or someone else more knowledgeable about the best way to help you will come along and help you prepare a plan. 

 

Good luck

 

thanks I am waiting for someone to contact me....I sent him a PM as well.

Hey whatalife,

 

I wish I could be of some assistance to you, but I'm totally in the dark with titrating.  I just looked and there is nobody on BB yet qualified to answer your question about the titrating.

 

The main thing you need to do in the meantime, is to try and calm some of your anxiety.  Are you doing anything in particular to help calm you?  Worrying about your anxiety will only increase it, as I'm sure you've found out.  Have you tried meditation or deep breathing exercises?  Sometimes it's possible to calm yourself back down by talking to yourself.  I know it sounds nutty, but telling your brain how calm you are will work alot better than accepting the anxiety.  When I feel anxiety coming on, I lay down and focus on emptying my mind of everything but the feeling of my body physically relaxing.  After I feel like everything is totally relaxed I leave my hands on my stomach and concentrate on them rising and falling with each breath I take.  This seems to help me sometimes.  If you havn't tried the total body scan meditation you may want to try it.  It takes about 40 min of being able to lay quietly somewhere.  This is the link to it......  http://www.benzobuddies.org/buddiesguide/insomnia-aid

 

You've spent 4 1/1 months cutting 38%?  Wow.. no wonder your anxious.  That would drive me crazy!  I guess that's why I stay away from the titrating.  Patience is not one of my stronger qualities!     

 

Someone should come along soon that can advise you on the titrating. 

 

Sending prayers for smoother taper your way! 

 

 

Phyllis   

Hi whatalife,

 

You have held your cut for a week already so I don't think holding anymore is going to help. I asked you in your other thread if you have had your thyroid checked? I found myself having awful anxiety when titrating because of my thyroid being out of whack.

 

It is also possible that cutting this slow may have put you back into tolerance. I am not sure what else could be going on that your anxiety is so high. I'm sure when Colin gets back he may have some other ideas.

 

T2

went and had my blood cked again and this was weird....it took 3 nurses and 4 tries to get a vein to open up and this was new and scared me....

 

I dunno but I am sweating a whole lot most all the time now...my estrogen is a bit high..would that cause stuff?

 

um 4 1/2 months to come off 38 % ....is that slow or fast?  and I think the anxiety is chemical right?  cns system is jangled?  scared from the anxeity as it makes my bp rise and holding has brought it down a little.

 

afraid if I go lower on this hell the anxiety will increase then what?  it is bad now.

went and had my blood cked again and this was weird....it took 3 nurses and 4 tries to get a vein to open up and this was new and scared me....

 

I dunno but I am sweating a whole lot most all the time now...my estrogen is a bit high..would that cause stuff?

 

um 4 1/2 months to come off 38 % ....is that slow or fast?  and I think the anxiety is chemical right?  cns system is jangled?  scared from the anxeity as it makes my bp rise and holding has brought it down a little.

 

afraid if I go lower on this hell the anxiety will increase then what?  it is bad now.

 

If you are sweating a lot more, that could be your thyroid or the meds they give for thyroid. You also could be dehydrated, that may be why they had trouble getting a vein.

 

Most people are able to taper at about 10% every 7-14 days. You are tapering at about 10% a month. So as it is slow, if it is working for you that's okay. But since it is not, it could be that you are in tolerance and your body wanting you to updose to get the same effects. We usually recommend pushing forward with your taper at this point. Wait and see if others have the same opinion.

Hey whatalife,

 

I agree with what Theresa has told you. 

 

Alot of times being afraid to move on isn't a good thing.  Sometimes the next cut you make will make you feel better!   

 

Lower does not always mean worse, and mental attitude is alot of the game!   

 

 

Phyllis 

thank you for all the nice advice and responses...I stopped taking thyroid a month ago...I am not on any thyroid.  my estrogen seemed a little high but not bad...but I am gonna stop taking it...doctor says I should be taking progestron with the estrogen and I may be out of balance...so I dunno.  All I know is the past week I have been sweating a lot more and the anxiety is high as hell and I cannot seem to calm down and then I am so frightened and tell myself it is only benzo wd and yet I build on that and get more scared and I dunno why and I feel I can't calm down and my brain is thinking weirdo things like I am not normal now and my brain is messed up and i can't seem to go back to normal and then I fear the fearful thoughts and then I break out in more sweat....has anyone else experienced this?

thank you for all the nice advice and responses...I stopped taking thyroid a month ago...I am not on any thyroid.  my estrogen seemed a little high but not bad...but I am gonna stop taking it...doctor says I should be taking progestron with the estrogen and I may be out of balance...so I dunno.  All I know is the past week I have been sweating a lot more and the anxiety is high as hell and I cannot seem to calm down and then I am so frightened and tell myself it is only benzo wd and yet I build on that and get more scared and I dunno why and I feel I can't calm down and my brain is thinking weirdo things like I am not normal now and my brain is messed up and i can't seem to go back to normal and then I fear the fearful thoughts and then I break out in more sweat....has anyone else experienced this?

 

I had a couple of months of almost constant sweating.  I'd even have to get up during the night to dry off and change pajamas.  I also had a hard time staying still; always had to be moving.  I think the only thing that got me through was believing what I was told here: that it was due to benzo withdrawal and was temporary. I did a lot of controlled breathing, the body scan meditation, read Claire Weekes' "{Help and Hope for your Nerves", and went for brisk walks when I couldn't stay still; anything to "wear off" the adrenaline.  It seemed to go on for a long time but it did essentially end.  I've had another little wave this week but nothing like when I was tapering.  And I've seen this same story repeated (with variations) over and over again during the time I've been here: fear that you have been permanently damaged, that you will always feel as bad as you do now.  It's kind of a lie told by benzos; don't believe the lie.    You will come out the other side of this and feel good again; promise. 

Hi Whatalife,

 

I received your PM.

 

Titrating 0.5mg Klonopin with 300ml of water, and reducing your dose by 1ml per day, is a very slow taper. In your PM you mentioned that you instead reduced your dose by 1.5ml per day for 5 days, but then your anxiety went through the roof. If I understand correctly, you went from about 194ml down to about 186.5ml in five days. A reduction from 194ml to 186.5ml is less than 1% of your dose in five days. You should bare in mind that your blood levels vary from day-to-day (even when you are taking a steady dose), because of the foods you eat; slight variances in the time you take your Klonopin; and inaccuracies in your measurements. But, the two big factors in variances is simply that your blood levels will dip (considerably) between does; and there can be quite a lot discrepancy between the stated dose of the pill, and the actual dose of an individual pill.

 

Generally speaking, most medicines are allowed to be ⁺/_-20% of their stated dose. In reality, I expect that they are usually far more accurate than this, but you should expect some discrepancy. Additionally, even if you take Klonopin 4 times per day (6 hours apart), your interdose levels will dip to between 79-92% of peak. The reason I'm telling you this is to make you understand that you cope all the time with dips in blood levels.

 

Although you are taking enough Klonopin for it to be having a real effect, it is a low dose, so its effects will be limited. My guess is that you are experiencing anxiety because you are feeling anxious about quitting Klonopin - this is understandable. However, since your taper is so very slow, and because you experience far bigger drops in blood levels than this on daily basis, I don't think it is these individual cuts that are causing your symptoms.

 

There is clinical evidence that suggests that those that have quit benzos actually manage anxiety better than those tapering. I am not suggesting for one moment that you get off Klonopin in a few weeks (your own experience informs you that this does not work), but you might be drawing this out for too long. Using 0.5mg Klonopin, and reducing your dose by 1ml from a 100ml cylinder, would be a pretty gentle taper. Of course, this might still be too quick for someone particularly sensitive (you do need to play it by ear), but 300 days to taper off 0.5mg of Klonopin is almost certainly slower than it need be.

 

Although the majority of people benefit from spreading their dose over the day, some suffer from anxiety at a particular time of the day, or suffer from insomnia. Some feel better taking all or most of their dose to correspond with these times of the day - you should what best suits you.

 

You might benefit from posting to our Anxiety & Panic board for ideas on how to manage your anxiety during and after your withdrawal.

Thanks Colin,

 

I appreciate your long explanation and I appreciate it...so today I went to the ER cuz the anxiety was so high and I figured holding would calm the anxiety..the 8 days I held has helped a lot...with the other sx's but the anxiety is higher and this is the worse of it...I wonder if I did this...when I was in ct...I was given lyrica and xyprexa..I hate those drugs but they managed me from a seisure but I noticed that lyrica took away anxiety and didnt' get it til I stopped taking it.  then the anxiety was crippling.  so I wonder is lyrica ok to take in small amounts while I am coming off this mess for anxiety or anything is okay or not? 

 

it seems to me that if I hold where I am ...for a while that the gabe will build up and calm me down naturally ....would that not happen too? 

 

If I keep going I worry if I will get even worse with the anxiety or can it get worse.. I do remember in ct that the anxiety was this bad and then one day it seithed up my diaphram to where i could not breath and scared me so bad I ended back on the klonopin and I do not want to go back on it.  This is my 5th attempt and want to be my final!  it is like having a noose around my neck.  horrible.

I'd be careful with the Lyrica, whatalife.  I can't remember anyone here having a good experience with it because it is addictive and can be hard to taper off of.

 

What do you do (behaviorally, not medically) to head off or alleviate anxiety?  As Colin said, it's likely that you are feeling worse simply because you are so anxious about tapering.  That is something you have some control over.  Please do check out and post on the Anxiety and Panic board Colin mentioned.  There have been a variety of techniques and strategies discussed there over the years.  Surely there's some combination that would help you lower your anxiety about getting off benzos or whatever else you may be feeling anxious about. 

Hi Whatalife,

 

I got your PM's, and I'm sorry to hear that your anxiety is so bad.  Unfortunately, ER's are not well equipped to deal with anxiety, in my opinion.  And most doctors don't seem well equipped to deal with benzo w/d's.  Oh well.  But your symptoms sound fairly typical....for benzo tapering, and/or tolerance withdrawals. 

 

If you really think about it, the w/d symptoms from Klon are often really similar to the problem it was supposd to help.  Symptoms are also eerily the same as "side effects" listed on the drug info sheet you get at the pharmacy with your Klon.  So, any way you look at it....it will be good to get off!    In the long run, your calmness will be restored and you will feel much better!  It is a process getting there though, getting to know yourself, finding out what works for you, making any necessary changes in your life, and all of that.  So finding some peace in any small thing possible along the way will keep you sane (so to speak). 

 

If you take Lyrica, you're asking for trouble (during benzo w/d's), in my opinion.  Guess what the name is for Lyrica?  Pregabalin!  Yep, that's right.  It messes with your GABA, just like Klon.  GABA is sort of what helps the brain feel "calm". 

 

Of course, the Lyrica will help your anxiety, for awhile -- it's like taking more benzos!  I actually tried taking it a few times during worst tapers, when I was grossly uneducated about these things.  I stopped as soon as I realized what I was doing.  Our thinking isn't completely straight sometimes during w/d's, is it. 

 

I agree with what others have said here.  Also, it may be time in your life to take back your own power.  Maybe if you channeled some of your anxious energy into getting more information about yourself, your condition, your hormones, get to know yourself better, whatever....that can help ease some anxiety? 

 

Especially that since you've taken the same dose for so long (I did too, but not 12 years), you probably will feel MUCH BETTER once you get off.  It's a nice thought, isn't it?  So make up your mind to proceed with that committment, to yourself, and just move forward.  You can handle more than you are afraid of right now. 

 

Also, the supplements I told you that I take for any anxiety and brain "distress" are ones that I have researched for myself.  I have learned what my brain biochemistry is so I take what can help me specifically (GABA, glutamine, and also kava kava).  I've also learned by trying that these do offer me some help.  I don't necessarily recommend them for you, because we each have different brain chemistries and body/hormonal situations.  You might benefit from a different amino acid, or more protein in general, or something else entirely, or not.  It's just hard to know.  But there are things available to everyone to try. 

 

On the estrogen.....most definitely taking unopposed estrogen (that is, estrogen with no progesterone) can cause anxiety, depression, what have you.  In my opinion. So that's something to work on and get more info on. 

 

Also, what other meds or supplements do you take, of ANY kind? 

 

--adelia

p.s.  there are some tests now available to measure our brain biochemistry.  My neurologist runs a sort of alternative clinic.  I think it's called "spectra cell"?  Something like that.  If you want to pay for some medical help, that would give you a good direction to go, then you can be prescribed something that might actually help.  Unless it's just for GABA!!!!  (Sorry to say).  We all are dealing with that little deficiency. 

thanks again..for all your responses  xoxooxoxxo

 

um I think the reason I am so frightened about this is that I did two ct's and now I am aware of what this dang mess can do to your body and it scares the livin hell out of me and seems like this slow taper is gruesome and I know if I go faster or stop allthgether then I can wind up in a huge ct again...and be sick for a long time and I remember having horrible thoughts and well I still have them but not as bad as of yet as I titrate.

 

I understand you feel bad when you titrate cuz you are not making enough gaba to replace what you are removing and you are to slow down..but then I have held for 8 days going super slow and it seems that I am more anxious and nauseated and dunno why? 

 

I wish I was a lot lower so I would be feeling more confident cuz I dunno what is waiting around the corner as I go lower.  my friends all left me and my roommate does not want to be around me from my constant whining and being sick and I do not blame him one bit.

 

he does not understand what I am going through as no one does unless they are or have.

 

I dunno...I will go look at the anxiety help.  thanks

 

Just curious....are you taking any other meds? 

 

Also, how long did you c/t each of those two times? 

 

One more thought Whatalife.  I think you have good reason to be anxious!  So there.  Why fight it?  It's ok to be scared, and frightened.  So be it.  Either way you go is not going to be entirely pleasant, is it. 

 

I've been up and down and all around the Klon issue.  I made myself sick for two years with Klon, not even knowing what I was doing.  Tapered too fast, got off, then got sicker.  I didn't know how I'd feel either once I got off.  I just knew that one day, it would get better.  And it is! 

 

The thing is...you might be one of those (based on your recent history) that is going to feel BETTER once you're off.  Whaddya think about that? 

 

Getting off is not a walk in the park, but staying on isn't a very good option either, is it?  So....take your pick!  I did. 

--adelia

No I am not taking other meds...and thanks for responding!  I tried kava and I dunno if the kava today made me feel weird....as I broke out in sweats and felt tight in my brain...but then I have stopped my estrogen since I have extra...and used some natural progestrone cream to balance or take out the access?  I dunno what the hell I am doing and wonder if this  is causing stress the too much estrogen but then can one ct off natural estrogen?  or what the heck do I do here?  I wish I could stop fearing the what if's so much and I think at times something is wrong in my brain that I am so terrified and I am terrified that the anxiety will get worse and I can barely stand it now...not a life and then so much more to come off of the rate I am going. 

 

first ct I reinstated after 10 days second ct reinstated after 2 months...never felt good on the benzo..and the dang quack doc just gave me a benzo for a panic attack where now looking back it could have been caused by a low blood sugar drop and hormones acting up cuz I was in perimenopause and so I am stupid for taking this drug all these years and when I felt nasty on the drug and tried to get off it ..I got worse so I thought I needed it.  when I went to so many docs asking why am I sick?  none knew it was tollerance wd and they found nothing with all the tests and all and I am so dismayed...just beside myself...when I think of all these years suffering....and now trying to get off this and trying to not have the horrid anxiety when I cold turkeyed cuz it was horrid and that made me go back on the benzo so I was hoping slow taper would keep the anxiety away and lessen at the end cuz my brain would learn to live with less benzos and when I got to zero that the anxiety would lessen but it seems it is building so I am so frieked out....dunno what to do.  if the anxiety would lessen up or go ...I could get off the rest of this hell faster!  dang it ..why do some  not have the anxiety and some do?  mine is off the charts and I do not think that is normal.

 

Yes adelia it is a great thought to think I would feel better off this mess....I read a lot of scarey stuff and I dunno what is at the end of this taper ...and from here to zero...and beyond..yikes.....

 

so how sick did you feel when you got off?  describe please ...I get a lot of nausea at times and want to barf...I know I have terrified myself too cuz I remember the cold turkeys and how horrifying they were and how my brain was thinking crazy things...awful. 

 

thanks for your time eveyone for writing me.

Hi there,

 

It is not necessarily true that going real slow will ease your w/d symptoms.  Some have a tough time.  There is no other way but to keep forging ahead even though you are hit with all these symptoms. IMO I would rather do a little faster taper to get off so the healing can truly begin once benzo free.  From what I can figure out from this site is that most members feel better after being off the benzo at the 4-6 week mark but continue to have symptoms (or waves) for a few months to slightly past the year mark.  But I will tell you one thing, I felt a heck of alot better at the 2 month post-benzo time than I did while tapering.  Hang in there, Gail.  Just keep forging ahead.  Hugs and kisses.

 

Patty  xo

Patti,

 

thank you...I am worried about the high anxiety I am getting and I also like I mentioned found I am a bit on the high side of estrogen..and I am sweating a lot since I stopped taking the bio estrogen 3 days ago...woke with anxiety and sweating and the sweating is not stopping....I feel slck to my tummy and my heart was racing 110 this morning...dunno what it is ..wd from estrogen or klonopin....have no idea...something is definately causing my stress and anxiety levels to be over the top.

I dunno what the hell I am doing

 

I dunno what the hell you are doing either whatalife!    But I know that you are going to figure it out!  And I know that you are going to get off Klon, and that you are going to recover and feel better.  Just like we all are here.  Even with some bumps along the way -- your own special bumps. 

 

It's a "process". 

 

--adelia

 

thanks again..

 

um I stopped my bio estrogen 4 days ago cuz it was high and I thought it was messin me up...and then I got really dizzy and lightheaded and sicker than I ever was and do not know if it is cause of that..I took estrogen last nite..figured it may be the trouble and today I am even sicker..last nite I was so dizzy and could not sleep...bp high, hr high, sweating horrible...so scared...I can't taper feeling this way???

Don't know for sure, but you may have to taper feeling that way, Whatalife.  Sorry to say. 

 

I had many more symptoms than that when I was down past .25 mg.  It's hard, but it can be done.  We are all here to let you know that it's possible.  Take heart! 

 

btw, by going up and down on hormones, you'll probably create more problems for yourself.  They're not like some "pills" where you can get an effect, then stop if you don't like.  They really need to be taken for weeks and months to get the desired effect.  So....best to work with someone to help you monitor those, yeah?

 

Hang in there!

--adelia

adelia,

 

was your anxiety level over the top when you kept going?  this is so uncomfortable and I can't stand it and what did you do for it?  i am afraid as I go lower what will happen if I can't stand the anxiety now...it gets worse right?

It doesnt always get worse. Many people feel better when they get lower! We all are unique and can only wait and see what happens when we get there. Are you doing any therapy? Sorry if this was already addressed! It may be very helpful for you to see someone.

There are alot of good tips on the anxiety/panic board. Make sure your eating well, exercising, resting, avoiding caffeine and alcohol etc etc.

You will get through this! Keep telling yourself that. This is temporary!! Your going to come out on the other side and be a stronger person from this journey!

 

Amanda 

thanks Paxton,

 

yes I am staying away from stress junk...sugars and caffine and all...I am so disgusted with not being able to get rid of the anxiety...it hits in the morning and hangs on and now it is in the evenings too ...just a horrible thing it is...I could deal with the other stuff better ..this is nasty. 

 

thanks..xoxooxox