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Trying to not worry about milk titration but switching over in the past 9 days..


[dg...]

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Ive heard from multiple people now that switching over to milk titration with klonopin can feel like a cut but I never imagined it could feel like this. I try to stay away from negative chatter and comments about withdrawal effects but the way Im feeling right now I really can't understand especially when I've made no actual cuts except for the switch. Im taking 0.5mg clonazepam in whole milk and that was the only switch I made. My entire body feels supercharged with nervous energy, my muscle tension and pain has gone way up, it feels like I drank 10 cups of coffee and my entire body is adrenalized. Im on day 9 of the switch to milk titration and I think it can take like 2 weeks to fully adjust to it. I don't want a nocebo effect to happen at all which is why Im trying to stay calm about it, but in reality I think its the switchover because I definitely didn't worry enough to cause this kind of stress hyperstimulation. If this doesn't get better I feel like Im going to have to switch back to the tablet format which I dont want to do because the entire reason for me going to titration was to be able to come off nice and slowly without withdrawal effects.. so far that hasn't been the case. It's been hard to work and focus not to mention dealing with the pain of this, anybody have comments on how to deal with this changeover until my body stabilizes and gets used to the milk instead of the tablet? So far nobody seems to know why this happens but that it just does.
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[21...]

How long do you allow the K to dissolve in the whole (8grams of fat) milk)? Are you than, evenly dividing it into eye-ball level even doses throughout the day?

 

I felt nothing but relief switching to dosing with milk. Wonder if it is a preparation issue.

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I'm using milk titration to taper off .5 mg. Klonopin.  This is day 52 of my taper; I've been reducing 5% every 2 weeks.  Right now I'm at .4 mg. and holding a few more days before cutting again.  I didn't notice any problems in switching from the .5 mg. pill to milk.  I use the method shown on BB in a video.  I use a mortar and pestle to thoroughly grind the pill into the smallest possible particles before mixing it with 100 ml. whole milk.  My Teva pills don't dissolve in milk.  I have a really good mortar and pestle with a pour spout, which you need.  Let me know if I can tell you anything else that might be helpful.

 

Papagena

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Benzo,

 

I prepare it in the morning. I crush the tablet inside of a glass and then draw 5 pulls of 50ml of milk from another glass and put it into the one with the powder. Then I mix it up and drink it. I didn't think I had to let it dissolve because Im not actually cutting yet Im just switching from tablet to titration. i take one dose throughout the day.

 

Papa,

 

That's exactly what Im trying to do, titrate off of 0.5mg klonopin. I also want to reduce 5% every 2 weeks. I dont use 100ml of milk I use 50ml got that tip from SG57. I haven't made any cuts, I just crushed up 0.5mg klonopin and mixed it with milk using the pestle and mortar. According to some people on the board that is pretty common to feel like a cut when switching to milk. I dont know if letting it sit in the milk has anything to do with it, I have no idea why it would when Im not actually removing any of the liquid yet.

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I don't let the ground-up pill sit in the milk overnight; I don't know if that's what you do.  Since the pill is finely ground up into a powder, it doesn't need to in my opinion. 

 

I like using 100 ml. of milk because even that's not a lot of liquid.  As you start to make cuts, the amount of liquid really dwindles.  I make mine in the morning, remove the cut, divide into two glasses, drink one and then refrigerate the other until bedtime.

 

Papagena 

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no i do the same thing as you and grind it up and put it in the milk in the morning. i was told to get used to doing it at night though so it can dissolve fully into the milk overnight when doing cuts.. this is so the drug is evenly distributed throughout the milk. i noticed already that if i just grind it up and put it into the milk that it doesn't fully dissolve but like i was saying since i haven't made any cuts yet i dont see how that would affect me feeling like this by switching to milk titration
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[21...]

I don't grind my pills. I draw up 100mL's milk, add my benzo to the prep jar,  seal and put in the fridge. I'll shake it 2-3 times over a 24 hour period. When ready to pull my cut, I gently swirl, take the lid off, pull out my cut and than divide my doses. Put one in the fridge, drink the other and also, rinse the prep jar and lid with water and drink that also. It's 99% fillers, but I feel better knowing I get every bit.

 

I find the least amount of steps, the better.  Also,  I keep my syringes in the fridge, after rinsing well.

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yeah so it doesn't look like im doing anything wrong preparation wise. i guess the only choice i have is to give it another week and see if my body adjusts to it, which im praying to God it does. i tried letting the pill dissolve overnight once without grinding it up but it didn't do that, it got mushy but didn't dissolve in the milk
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[21...]

yeah so it doesn't look like im doing anything wrong preparation wise. i guess the only choice i have is to give it another week and see if my body adjusts to it, which im praying to God it does. i tried letting the pill dissolve overnight once without grinding it up but it didn't do that, it got mushy but didn't dissolve in the milk

 

Have you allowed it to dissolve in your full fat milk for 24 hours and shake it a few times during?

 

BTW, I use Teva and it's a hard pill. Never a problem with it not dissolving.

 

I also work full time outside of the home. Prep doses are made 2-3 at a time in the morning and I usually don't shake them until I get home from work.

 

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benzo,

 

i just did this last night, tried it again after the first time i didn't think it dissolved. i put the pill into milk last night and let it dissolve overnight. i shoke it once before i went to bed and shook it again in the morning. after i drank the milk i saw little remnants of the pill left stuck to the side of the glass that didn't fully dissolve, dont know how to make those dissolve completely in the milk. im not going to get up in the middle of the night to shake it, how do you agitate it while its dissolving overnight?

 

i didn't let it dissolve for 24 hours, i let it dissolve for 8. what is the limit on how long the pill can sit in liquid before its not effective anymore?

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[21...]

Usually what's left on the side of your prep jar are the fillers. But, if there's a concern, you rinse this with a bit of water(the lid too) and drink it. That way, if you're a concerned about any loss, you are drinking it.

 

I make 3 prep jars at a time so my benzo-milk solution sits up to 3 days, sometimes 4 in the fridge. Even if the milk was expired, the benzo isn't. It just tastes sour and I do avoid that by using my milk up before it will expire.

 

I don't get up in the middle of the night to shake the benzo-milk. I make my prep jars in the morning, put them in the fridge and when I get home from work, I'll shake them 2 times over a couple of hours.

 

These prep jars are for the next day and the following 2 days (they also serve as a back-up in case of an accidental spillage).

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Hi dgreen97

 

It doesn't sound like there is anything wrong with the way you are preparing the mixture, and as you've said, you aren't reducing yet anyway.

 

Some people do report feeling an effect when they switch to a liquid titration. I can understand this when people switch to a pharma grade liquid benzo (eg liquid valium) because there is a difference in the delivery of the benzo, but I honestly don't see why there should be an issue when you just switch to using milk and tablets, unless of course it's the milk you are having a reaction to. A lot of people would take their tablets with some milk just a normal way of taking pills, and a milk titration is exactly the same thing, except that when you start to reduce you are taking out a small amount each day.

 

So I think that perhaps what is happening with you is that you are in a wave, and that's perhaps what happens to other people but they assume it's the milk titration causing it. At this point the only thing you can do it keep holding. I hope it passes soon for you and that you can get started on your taper.

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Hi -

 

It took me 3 weeks to feel better just going from pills to pills in milk, and the same thing happened to me with those symptoms.  They DID go away.  I just am someone in which any tiny change really impacts me.  It was really upsetting. 

 

I never crushed up any pill because it was an opportunity to lose med in the process.  I just do as was previously suggested, leaving it 24 hours, and then shake hard.  If anything is left over in the bottle, I fill it with water and drink a few times. 

 

Have hope!

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benzo,

 

i just did this last night, tried it again after the first time i didn't think it dissolved. i put the pill into milk last night and let it dissolve overnight. i shoke it once before i went to bed and shook it again in the morning. after i drank the milk 1) i saw little remnants of the pill left stuck to the side of the glass that didn't fully dissolve, dont know how to make those dissolve completely in the milk. im not going to get up in the middle of the night to shake it, how do you agitate it while its dissolving overnight?

 

i didn't let it dissolve for 24 hours, i let it dissolve for 8. what is the limit on 2) how long the pill can sit in liquid before its not effective anymore?

 

1) Those particles are binders and fillers, not diazepam. 

 

2)  The V will retain its efficacy.  The milk will sour long before you need toi worry about the strength of the dissolved med.

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I had same exact experience switching Valium dose to milk. Took me 2.5 weeks to feel better. Sounds like the exact same symptoms  - felt like a good size cut. I stabilized.

 

No idea why that happens to some people - only thing I could come up with is the liquid form allows for rapid absorption into mouth, etc - this would change the pharmacokinetic profile. i.e. it would onset quicker and clear quicker - i.e. creating  withdrawal.

 

If thats the only thing that you changed - you will stabilize. Hang in there! Its worth it.

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How is taking milk/valium liquid any different taking a tablet and washing ti down with milk???

 

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying too. I honestly think that it is a wave, and it's a just a co-incidence when it happens at the same time as starting a milk titration. We often look for things to blame when we have tapering problems, but in reality the only thing to blame is the benzo.

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How is taking milk/valium liquid any different taking a tablet and washing ti down with milk???

 

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying too. I honestly think that it is a wave, and it's a just a co-incidence when it happens at the same time as starting a milk titration. We often look for things to blame when we have tapering problems, but in reality the only thing to blame is the benzo.

 

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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Hi folks

My 2 cents - generally liquid medicines can absorb quicker than pills .

 

Liquid medication and rapid dissolving tabs get directly absorbed into the blood stream through the mouth/throat and rectum - basically acts like having an IV. This is why emergency treatments (i.e., nitroglycerin, glucose tabs, etc) are generally oral dissolving tabs or IV. Thats also why you get a buzz from smoking cigars, etc without inhaling.

 

You also skip the time it takes for the pill to dissolve in the gut which is PH dependent. 

 

Don't know if any of that will actually result in a different bioavailability for benzos, but it could.  Liquid preparations don't always behave the same as oral and every person has a different drug bioavailability profile.

 

Or it could just be a wave! Either way I would hold and it will pass:)

 

 

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I only know that it happens to me because it happened the first time that I switched 4mg to milk, and once I tapered that off I had to liquify the remaining 8.  The same thing happened!! I metabolize very, very quickly.  I think when I dissolved the pills into the milk, it made it even easier for the drug to move quickly through my system, and shortened the duration.  That's just my hypothesis, because when it happened the 2nd time I couldn't believe it! 
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holy crap a lot of responses since i last checked, im taking klonopin not valium not sure if that makes a difference. i did feel a little better like 2-3 days ago when i started letting it just dissolve in milk overnight, but now today again im feeling that supercharged tense feeling like i was before. it seems to be going up and down i dont know what the hell is going on. im glad you guys have seen this go away because im counting on that, its been almost 2 weeks since the switch i think this is day 12. going to read through the rest of the postings and respond back.

 

im thinking it has to be the way the drug is delivered to the body. dissolving it completely in milk i can't be losing that much at all in the process especially since i rinse the cup with water and drink that too after i drink the milk. i think it has to be the body absorbs it differently which makes it feel like a cut. it being already dissolved the body doesn't have to dissolve it in the stomach so there has to be a change there i dont know. just hoping to God this settles in the next few days.  :-\

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today has been really bad again, lots of muscle tension and feeling over-adrenalized, not sure how much longer i can keep dealing with this. it seemed to get better a couple days ago and now today its back again wtf is going on. i didn't do anything except switch to milk that was it
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[21...]

Is there by any chance, that your prescription brand/manufacturer was changed recently? That will cause problems and big one's at that.

 

Have you added any supplements or medications recently, close enough to effect the change over to liquid.

 

Are you watching foods that cause problems? There are so many possibilities.

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nope not a change in the generic im taking. its still mylan. i tried changing generics when i was going to do another method of tapering using the wafers 0.125mg and those were teva and par. i was taking supplements before i started all this but i cut all of those out so that couldn't be the cause. thats exactly why i stopped seeing my naturopath because there would be no way to tell what was causing me to feel better or worse. no new medications added recently, i was given clonidine to help deal with withdrawal symptoms but i dont take it.. maybe i should today.

 

foods may be an issue, im not sure. when i saw the naturopath in october i radically changed my diet around to eat 10x healthier so i cut out breads and all kinds of other stuff.. that wasn't a fun change because of the addiction to sugar and stuff like that. but this all happened months before i started the titration taper. it could be sugar i dont know because in the last 4 days ive been eating more ice cream and usually the only sweets i'll have are some hershey's kisses. what i can do is eliminate sugars again and see if that is part of the problem here.

 

but you're right, there are so many things going on its hard to pinpoint what is causing me to feel so much worse than usual. process of elimination would be to cut out the extra sugars again and stabilize blood sugar by actually eating every 3 hours. since i've been beyond stressed again i haven't been eating regularly which i know is a problem.

 

 

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[21...]

dgreen97-

 

I went and read all your posts to see if there was something that would stick out. If I may ask, and if you would, please write out exactly how you make your K-milk. I mean literally, step by step. How long you let the K dissolve in the milk, what type of milk....everything.

 

If I can't, or anyone else can't for that matter, see something that sticks out as poor preparation, than it could very well be that you came into this taper already symptomatic. From your first post, your weren't feeling well.

 

 

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