Tolerance Withdrawal & Need to taper more soon!

Hi,

I'm not new to Benzobuddies.    I tapered down from xanax 3mg. to 10mg. liquid valium (equal to .5mg. xanax), and now am back at 1.75mg. xanax and feeling anxious, depressed and having insomnia a lot.   

My problem is, I already tapered to 0 (off) xanax some 20 years ago and then was put back on it after a miscarriage.  :-(    Anyway, I tapered off it back then quite easily by doing a direct taper.  It was before the internet and I only found out that I was somewhat "dependent" on the xanax when I tried to cut back on the dose of 3mg./day.  Well I told my doctor I would dry cut the smallest amount and go at my own pace, which I did.  I was successful!  I had no idea that people suffered horrible withdrawals, and frankly I am glad I did not.  I confess that I sometimes used Dramamine during the taper to help me sleep.  After I was off them, I slept just fine with no help at all!  I worked through my entire taper.  It was not a cakewalk but it was doable!

Then when I was put back on it after the miscarriage, I went right back to 3mg. per day unfortunately.  The next time I wanted off xanax, I researched withdrawal on the internet (back in 2004), and joined the "scary" forum at BI which was called something else back then.  I did the crossover to valium and tapered down to 10mg. liquid valium.  At that point, my doctor saw my "suffering" and thought she would do me a "favor" by putting me back on xanax, 1.5mg., after I had gotten rid of all xanax.  Boy did I feel like a failure!

Well folks, I need to seriously think about tapering once again; this will be my third time; one successful (the first), one failure (the second), and what can I expect this time? 

I am frightened as I have read about the "kindling" effect where it becomes more and more difficult each time a person tries to taper off a psych drug, especially xanax.  I think at best it is covering withdrawal for the most part, but the fact that I stay up until 1:30am or 2am , along with increased anxiety and depression, that I cannot up the dose (will NOT), and I need to taper. 

My question is should I try the direct taper, as I had success the first time around?  Valium seemed to be a depressant for me and I was very anxious, housebound, symptomatic with it.  I had difficulty breathing sometimes, and was so depressed, and could not string together a coherent sentence near the end.  (at 10mg). 

I think the valium was no good for me.  I think even though people say it's harder, I should try a direct xanax taper again; I succeeded before. 

Let me add that I don't need frequent dosing with xanax; it seems to stay in my system for at least 8 hours before I feel need for the next dose.

I am scared of tapering though.......

thanks for reading if you got this far - I didn't mean to write a book!

Hi,

I'm not new to Benzobuddies.    I tapered down from xanax 3mg. to 10mg. liquid valium (equal to .5mg. xanax), and now am back at 1.75mg. xanax and feeling anxious, depressed and having insomnia a lot.   

 

My problem is, I already tapered to 0 (off) xanax some 20 years ago and then was put back on it after a miscarriage.  :-(    Anyway, I tapered off it back then quite easily by doing a direct taper.  It was before the internet and I only found out that I was somewhat "dependent" on the xanax when I tried to cut back on the dose of 3mg./day.   Well I told my doctor I would dry cut the smallest amount and go at my own pace, which I did.   I was successful!   I had no idea that people suffered horrible withdrawals, and frankly I am glad I did not.  I confess that I sometimes used Dramamine during the taper to help me sleep.  After I was off them, I slept just fine with no help at all!   I worked through my entire taper.  It was not a cakewalk but it was doable!

 

Then when I was put back on it after the miscarriage, I went right back to 3mg. per day unfortunately.  The next time I wanted off xanax, I researched withdrawal on the internet (back in 2004), and joined the "scary" forum at BI which was called something else back then.   I did the crossover to valium and tapered down to 10mg. liquid valium.   At that point, my doctor saw my "suffering" and thought she would do me a "favor" by putting me back on xanax, 1.5mg., after I had gotten rid of all xanax.  Boy did I feel like a failure!

 

Well folks, I need to seriously think about tapering once again; this will be my third time; one successful (the first), one failure (the second), and what can I expect this time?   

 

I am frightened as I have read about the "kindling" effect where it becomes more and more difficult each time a person tries to taper off a psych drug, especially xanax.   I think at best it is covering withdrawal for the most part, but the fact that I stay up until 1:30am or 2am , along with increased anxiety and depression, that I cannot up the dose (will NOT), and I need to taper. 

 

My question is should I try the direct taper, as I had success the first time around?   Valium seemed to be a depressant for me and I was very anxious, housebound, symptomatic with it.  I had difficulty breathing sometimes, and was so depressed, and could not string together a coherent sentence near the end.  (at 10mg).   

 

I think the valium was no good for me.   I think even though people say it's harder, I should try a direct xanax taper again; I succeeded before. 

Let me add that I don't need frequent dosing with xanax; it seems to stay in my system for at least 8 hours before I feel need for the next dose.

 

I am scared of tapering though.......

 

thanks for reading if you got this far - I didn't mean to write a book!

 

 

I'm sorry you find yourself in this position again, Maureen, but if you really want off the valium, I feel sure you will be able to do it one way or another.  I have read many times that valium caused worse depression than other benzos so your experience is not unusual.  I don't know that I'd cross over to xanax, though.  I know you were successful before but the benzos don't always have the same effect when they are reinstated later.  And, as you know, it is very short acting.  Of course, this is a decision for you and your doctor.  Sometimes the psychological considerations ("I was successful tapering off xanax" for example) can outweigh the "science" side of things.  A good part of getting off benzos is attitude and not expecting the worst. 

How long have you been at the 10mg valium?  Since you have the liquid form, it would be very easy for you to make a miniscule reduction every day or so if you want and just ease on down.  Maybe at the start wait a few days to a week before reducing again to build up your confidence in the approach.  Do you think that might work?

Hi Maureen,

I can relate to much of what you said and just wanted to say hello. I'm at the start of a xanax taper and totally understand what you're saying. You're in my thoughts.

aloha

Hi Maureen,

Many people find valium to be a very miserable drug. When I have taken it I felt almost sick. I was taking xanax when I first started having "interdose withdrawals".  Although I had read that Valium was for many the benzo of choice for tapering/titrating because of its long half life, I decided, along with my doctor, that the best choice for me was klonopin, as it has a fairly long half life as well. It is not a "fun" benzo like xanax, that is many people enjoy the effects of xanax but few "enjoy" the effects of  valium or klonopin. I switched over from xanax to klonopin. The K has a somewhat different effect than X so you would want to do a slow crossover to make the adjustment. I had no problems or feelings of  sickness with the K during the crossover or afterwards during the on going titration. ( A definite benefit over the Valium IMHO)

The only downside to the klonopin is it is difficult to make small enough reductions using pills so you must convert it to a liquid. This is not really a problem as it is basically fat soluble and easily made into a liquid solution using "whole milk."  The strength of the benzo solution is determined (the ratio) and your "cut" can be easily measured out using an oral measuring syringe. I have been making very small cuts daily, dividing the finished solution into three equal doses per day. Because I make these "micro daily cuts" I have been spared any withdrawal symptoms. Part of this is because I started the titration process before any withdrawal symptoms had become entrenched. You Maureen are not yet symptomatic so if you were to switch from X to K which is what I am suggesting you consider rather than dry cutting Xanax, and follow a titration plan utilizing small daily cuts which you can adjust according to your body's response, you could become free of benzos with minimal or even no withdrawal side effects at all. I started titrating at 6 mgs of K a little over a year ago. I have painlessly reduced about 2.25 mgs = to 45mgs of valium. You can set your own pace according to your comfort level by making mini adjustment in the size of your cuts.

I am simply offering this as an option for your consideration. You have more choices than dry cutting Xanax or taking Valium.

Sincerely John

Thanks for the replies 

Sorry if my message was confusing (I know it was long) , but I am not on valium currently.  My pdoc switched me back to xanax after the valium fiasco failure, and here I stand at 1.75 mg.  of xanax.

I have heard of people taking a piece of sandpaper and scraping the pill once, then the next day twice, etc. until one is gone.  Not sure it is very scientific, lol, but I am considering doing that, as I had success the first time tapering directly from xanax.

Today I'm having a lot of anxiety; going to see my therapist later so that could one of the reasons.  I know I am tolerant to the xanax dose but do not want to go up any.  I will try to start tapering when I don't have too much on my calendar, which will probably be mid-April. Right now there are a lot of stresses going on in my life with appointments, jury duty , etc. coming up so I think I will wait until I can pretty much stay home if I choose to.

Thanks again and I will be checking in and giving any support I can to people wanting to get off these horrible drugs.   

Hello all -

I'm new to the group.  I'm not sure I'm posting this to the right spot.  I haven't figured out how to do a new post yet.

Anyway, I decided in January that I wanted to get off of my 1mg./day dose of Klonopin.  I also take 150 mg. Desyrel.  I figured I could get off the Des after the K.  I started tapering and got down to 0.875 mg. with very difficult but tolerable anxiety and panic.  Then all heck broke loose.  My anxiety and panic soared, I felt like somebody was tearing my skin off, lots of body pain, hysteria, etc.  As a result I went to my psych on 3/7.  She immediately switched me over to Librium.  She said the withdrawal would be easier, but still difficult.  For 3 days I took 10 mg. Librium 3x/day.  After 3 days I went to 10 mg. Librium 2x/day.  The anxiety and panic have returned with a horrible vengeance.  I'm sure many people have described their feelings here better than I can, but I'm paralyzed with fear, panic and anxiety.  I still feel like someone is ripping my skin off and eating my guts while I watch.  I called her this morning, she had me take 20 mg. Librium immediately, which I did.  She then suggested I might want to consider checking into the hospital's substance abuse/withdrawal unit.  I'm not sure that's the answer, but I'm looking for input.

I am as terrified of increasing the Librium again as I am of not increasing it.  But, I know I can't do this anymore.  I'm not sure immediately switching over to Librium from Klon was a good idea.  She doesn't agree with the Valium crossover concept.  Has anyone ever had a situation in withdrawal where the withdrawal was so horrifying that you had to return to higher doses of benzo's than you were originally taking to get back down to earth again?  If so, what did you do?  What happened after that?

I sure would appreciate anyone's help.

Thank you

Lablover,

If you start a "thread" of your own, you will likely get more responses.  Right now it is buried in the thread I started.  No problem.  Maybe a moderator can move this to a new thread so you will get responses. 

Maureen

Hi Maureen,

Just wanted to give you a word of encouragement. I'm in my 29th day of being benzo. free and I sincerely empathize with your feelings of being somewhat confused and alone in this process. Please reach out to some of the veterans of this site. They know far more than I, however I can tell you I have been on and off xanax for some time. Each time it was harder to function after discontinuing the usage of the drug. This last time I stopped, very recently, I suffered quite a few side effects, many of which have greatly improved. It was well worth the feelings of frustration, and at times, sadness. I, like you, understand that feeling of 'why am i on these drugs again, can someone remind me?" ' All I know now is that I will never again take one of these drugs, and if I ever have surgery, I'll demand to speak with the anesthesiologist to make sure he won't be using a benzo. I'm glad you're on here, and I empathize greatly. Find a tapering plan that works, and let us know how you're doing! We're all rooting for you, Maureen.

Thanks Landfall!  I have been reading about the "kindling" effect, whereby each successive attempt to taper off benzodiazepines (or alcohol) results in increased withdrawal discomfort and it kind of scares me, where I have had one great success, one failure with the crossover to valium, and now back on xanax, albeit a smaller dose. 

I am determined to do it though and be psych drug free.  I have to take heart medications due to a supraventricular tachycardia I've had since I was 28, but they don't interfere with xanax tapering.    I hope I can do it this time without the crossover, as for me, valium was a major source of depression. 

I see my pdoc on Friday, and she is listed as benzo-wise but I am sorely afraid she is really not that savvy; but she will give me literally anything (just about any psych drug I want (hah! - none!) so I will discuss it with her, this kindling effect.    If I need to stay in bed for the remainder of my taper, I will.  I am that determined.  1.75mg. of xanax seems so innocuous, doesn't it?    35 mg. of valium (the equivalent) sounds a bit more intimidating.  I wish these drug companies AND doctors would tell the truth to the patient about the real potency of drugs like xanax, klonopin and even ativan.

I appreciate the encouragement. 

Hi guys,

I decided I had to start somewhere, so I made a .125 cut today from alprazolam.  So far so good.  It is less than 10% so should be fine.    I will see how it goes.  TOmorrow I see my psychiatrist re: medication.  I don't want to start taking any other meds. 

Just a status update.... I am doing quite well on 1.625mg.  (a .125 cut).  It is less than a 10% cut so I know I am just beginning, but I have high hopes to do this direct taper off xanax, as I did so many years ago!  I plan to play it by ear and make cuts when I feel able to; that's how I got off this poison the first time.    I know it won't be easy, but I will succeed. 

Just a status update.... I am doing quite well on 1.625mg.  (a .125 cut).  It is less than a 10% cut so I know I am just beginning, but I have high hopes to do this direct taper off xanax, as I did so many years ago!   I plan to play it by ear and make cuts when I feel able to; that's how I got off this poison the first time.    I know it won't be easy, but I will succeed.   

 

 

Slow and steady wins the race!! 

Thanks, Theresa!    I know I can do it this time!

Hi Maureen,

Just checking in on you.  I am another direct-taper Xanax member.  Been off for 7 1/2 months.  Just wishing you many windows.

Patty  xo

Thanks so much stoneyco!  It's really good to have others who have gone before with direct tapers, and I also did a xanax taper 15+ years ago.  I was successful then, my first time off, and failed the second time with a valium crossover, so I feel that this way is the best for me.  SLow but steady.

I am hoping to decrease by another .125 in the next week or so, down to 1.5mg.  I am having insomnia, where I will go to sleep around 11:30-12:00 and then out of a sound sleep, suddenly wake up between 4-5am and even though I feel so sleepy, cannot go back to sleep.  Other than that I consider this first cut to be quite tolerable.

Onward and upward!

Don't you just love that snapping awake, Maureen?    I will be watching out for you.

Patty  xo

Well I have been doing pretty well on the 1.625 mg. of xanax, and to be honest with you, have been a bit scared to cut again. 

However, I started power walking with my cousin in the mornings, and I have been amazed and pleased at how much the exercise relieves my symptoms.  I feel that I can now cut another .125 so that I will be at 1.5mg. xanax. 

So tomorrow I will make another .125 cut and I am trusting the Lord all the way with this!  Please pray for me, those of you who pray.  Last taper, I never made it lower than 10mg. valium, which is only .5mg. of xanax.    I can do this!

Maureen

Maureen - I will certainly be praying for you and your tapering process.  I had been on Xanax very, very briefly while at the same time on Klonopin, and realized that Xanax along with the K was just a horrible situation, so I never took it again.  Just trying to taper off of the K is hard enough.  I am currently in the process of doing that.  I am at .60mg and won't make another cut for a while.  I only cut approximately .03mg at a time and then wait.

I know you will be successful as you keep trusting the Lord to get you through this.  I do believe in the power of prayer.

Blessings to you, Maureen.  You are an overcomer!

Hi everyone,

Just an update on me.  I am tapering very very slowly as I was on the poison over 20 years.  So I cut out another .125 this week and now am down to 1.5mg.  I know I am taking it slower than most people on this forum, but I figure I had two failed attempts and this time I am determined to go through with it.  After coming off completely 20 years ago, I know I can do it again, just very slowly as back then I had been on it much shorter time.

So far so good but I know that the beginning is often the easiest part!  We'll see when I get down to 1mg. and below.  I may need guidance on trying the liquid titration method; my brain is not good at grasping math or complicated things right now. 

So, at least I can say I am now on the equivalent of 30 mg valium!  Yikes!  that's still an awful lot of benzo.

Take care,

Maureen

Hi Maureen!

Glad things are going well!

Dont worry about later on, since your doing a sensible taper I think you'll be fine  .

Keep us updated!

Amanda 

Hey Maureen,

I'm so glad to see that your Xanax taper is working so far! 

I was on Xanax for over 15yrs and did a crossover to Klonopin for my taper.  I was one of the luckier ones to have a smooth taper.  Just take it one day at a time and keep thinking positive! 

Adding you to my buddy prayer list for a speedy recovery! 

Phyllis   

Hi Maureen:

I was trying to get caught up on your story and experience with the Xanax and please know that I will be praying for you through all of this, too.

In an earlier reply of yours, you mentioned a "scary" forum.  I was very curious which one that was because I have a similar experience.  The forum I had been using for a brief time had been giving advice that was so much the opposite of what I find here and it's hard for me to reconcile how 2 forums could be so vastly different.  I have to say that I find this forum so loving and supportive and an excellent place for my feet (and brain!) to have landed.

I wish you the best in your taper and keep believing that you will make it through and feel better.  I'm going through anxiety and depression as I'm tapering off of Klonopin, but everyone here makes it so much more bearable.

Take care,

Jan

Thanks so much Phyllis, Amanda and Jan!  everyone is so nice here. 

I am still hanging in there and realize I have cut equivalent of 5mg. of valium, if I am not mistaken.  .25 of xanax is equal to 5mg. valium I believe according to Ashton.

I am trusting God and I covet your prayers.  He is faithful and I am humbled and thankful.    I am taking it really slow this time and not setting any

timetable for myself.    I am not suffering any withdrawal to speak of yet!  This is unbelievable as I did suffer quite a bit

on the valium taper and even the crossover from xanax to valium was not pleasant.    I know the hardest part is to come as I go lower, but for now I am happy with the .25 reduction.  Some day I will be benzo free and I am encouraged by all the success stories I read here.

Maureen

Just checking in......I'm still hanging at 1.5mg. xanax.  Only .25mg. deleted so far........  getting sort of discouraged because the stress is getting to me.

I am taking 5mg. melatonin at night and sometimes one small benadryl which helps me sleep.  I am irritable and anxious.  I just came home from a doctor's appointment for a physical and was a complete wreck, thinking he would find something dreadfully wrong.  I know the anxiety is from the withdrawal, but honestly after around close to 30 years on xanax, do you think I can do it?  Remember it's my 3rd taper and failed the others, well not quite failed, I cut down from 3mg. to where I am now at 1.5mg. 

I read on the Yahoo forum and the benzo UK site that Debra, the owner of the yahoo site, stayed in bed for most all of her taper.  I am beginning to think this might be my only chance to get off this for good!  Just no stressors, not going anywhere or worrying about external things or people.  Seems selfish (not Debra, me) but I honestly don't know how I can keep going as you all have done with the anxiety of daily living.  I guess I am a big wimp and I have only cracked the beginning of the taper off 1.75mg.  A measly .25 down, and I feel so on edge and irritable, plus just plain worried and nervous, and since I once got down to 10mg. valium, I know the worst is yet to come     

Sorry for sounding negative; just feeling that I wish I could go away to a tropical island and veg out until my taper is done!