Need Help Creating a Klonopin / Clonazepam Titration Plan

Can someone please help me create a Klonopin Titration Plan?  I have a lot of confusion and stress especially these last few days (check Progress Log for more info) so even though I read Colin's Titration Instructions post and watched the YouTube videos on it, I'm afraid I'm going to mess something up.  Here is the info requested in the Titration Instructions thread:

 

• I take one 2 mg Klonopin pill and one 1 mg Klonopin pill for a total of 3 mg Klonopin in my system at approximately 11:00 PM every day.
   
  
• I would like to do a slow taper.
  
• I will be using a 100 ml graduated cylinder.
  
• The graduated cylinder has 1 ml graduations.
  
• I would like to use whole milk for the liquid.
  

 

Please let me know if you need any additional information.  Thanks in advance to whomever helps me with the titration schedule / plan. 

My first question would be is one dose a day enough?

 

Here is what I would suggest.  I don't see a need for the cylinder, but if it suits you that is also fine.

 

Get a 1ml and a 10ml oral syringe and a jam jar (or as many jam jars as you have doses).  Put the 1mg K pill into the jar and then add 100ml whole milk.  Let it sit and mix once in a while (overnight is a good way to do this).  This makes a .01mg/ml solution.  Each ml contains .01mg K.  Dose this way for a week or two to allow your body to get used to it.

 

When ready to begin cutting with your 1ml syringe remove .0015mg (.15ml) each day as a starting point.  Do this for at least 14 days to assess how you react.  Always hold as needed, but with the right cut holding should not be needed much.

My first question would be is one dose a day enough?

 

Here is what I would suggest.  I don't see a need for the cylinder, but if it suits you that is also fine.

 

Get a 1ml and a 10ml oral syringe and a jam jar (or as many jam jars as you have doses).  Put the 1mg K pill into the jar and then add 100ml whole milk.  Let it sit and mix once in a while (overnight is a good way to do this).  This makes a .01mg/ml solution.  Each ml contains .01mg K.  Dose this way for a week or two to allow your body to get used to it.

 

When ready to begin cutting with your 1ml syringe remove .0015mg (.15ml) each day as a starting point.  Do this for at least 14 days to assess how you react.  Always hold as needed, but with the right cut holding should not be needed much.

 

Thank you for your quick reply SG57.  I'm not sure what you mean by "Is one dose a day enough?"  As for jam jars, I don't own any and never even heard of them.  I looked them up and it sounds like you want me to prepare a ton of doses ahead of time and put them in the fridge.  I can't do this because my fridge is too small and also my family will surely mess up the batches because they still don't understand the whole withdrawal thing.

 

I watched the Tek San titration videos again and it sounds like what I should be doing is to start out with the 2 mg Klonopin pill, mash it with the mortar and pestle and put the powder in 100 ml of milk in the graduated cylinder.  Then my first cut would be just to drink 99 ml of the 100 ml of milk.  So that would mean I drank 1.98 mg for a dose.  Then I would just take my 1 mg Klonopin pill normally for a total of 2.98 mg of a dose taken total.  I would then clean up all my supplies and put them away.  Then the next day if I felt I was stable enough to go down further, I would make another 100 ml "Klonopin Milkshake" but only drink 98 ml of it.  I would then do this until there is no longer a need for the 2 mg pill and then I would move on to using the same method with the 1 mg pill and keep going until I'm completely off of the Klonopin.  Does this sound correct?

Thank you for your quick reply SG57.  I'm not sure what you mean by "Is one dose a day enough?"  As for jam jars, I don't own any and never even heard of them.  I looked them up and it sounds like you want me to prepare a ton of doses ahead of time and put them in the fridge.  I can't do this because my fridge is too small and also my family will surely mess up the batches because they still don't understand the whole withdrawal thing.

 

I watched the Tek San titration videos again and it sounds like what I should be doing is to start out with the 2 mg Klonopin pill, mash it with the mortar and pestle and put the powder in 100 ml of milk in the graduated cylinder.  Then my first cut would be just to drink 99 ml of the 100 ml of milk.  So that would mean I drank 1.98 mg for a dose.  Then I would just take my 1 mg Klonopin pill normally for a total of 2.98 mg of a dose taken total.  I would then clean up all my supplies and put them away.  Then the next day if I felt I was stable enough to go down further, I would make another 100 ml "Klonopin Milkshake" but only drink 98 ml of it.  I would then do this until there is no longer a need for the 2 mg pill and then I would move on to using the same method with the 1 mg pill and keep going until I'm completely off of the Klonopin.  Does this sound correct?

 

With K it is unusual to just need one dose a day.  Most people need two or three.  But if you feel good on one don't change.

 

By jam jars I was just giving an example of a type of jar that would be cheap, easy, and work well.  Like what jelly comes in.

 

No, I am not suggesting preparing more than a day at a time.

 

I'm just suggesting, you are deciding.  You can do what you want.  I would not do it the way you describe.  But you are the one who is tapering.  You need to be comfortable with it.  2mg into 100ml is .02mg/ml so a 1ml cut would be a .020mg cut, which is too large to begin at for a daily taper.  But if you want to taper that way that is up to you.

Thank you for your quick reply SG57.  I'm not sure what you mean by "Is one dose a day enough?"  As for jam jars, I don't own any and never even heard of them.  I looked them up and it sounds like you want me to prepare a ton of doses ahead of time and put them in the fridge.  I can't do this because my fridge is too small and also my family will surely mess up the batches because they still don't understand the whole withdrawal thing.

 

I watched the Tek San titration videos again and it sounds like what I should be doing is to start out with the 2 mg Klonopin pill, mash it with the mortar and pestle and put the powder in 100 ml of milk in the graduated cylinder.  Then my first cut would be just to drink 99 ml of the 100 ml of milk.  So that would mean I drank 1.98 mg for a dose.  Then I would just take my 1 mg Klonopin pill normally for a total of 2.98 mg of a dose taken total.  I would then clean up all my supplies and put them away.  Then the next day if I felt I was stable enough to go down further, I would make another 100 ml "Klonopin Milkshake" but only drink 98 ml of it.  I would then do this until there is no longer a need for the 2 mg pill and then I would move on to using the same method with the 1 mg pill and keep going until I'm completely off of the Klonopin.  Does this sound correct?

 

With K it is unusual to just need one dose a day.  Most people need two or three.  But if you feel good on one don't change.

 

By jam jars I was just giving an example of a type of jar that would be cheap, easy, and work well.  Like what jelly comes in.

 

No, I am not suggesting preparing more than a day at a time.

 

I'm just suggesting, you are deciding.  You can do what you want.  I would not do it the way you describe.  But you are the one who is tapering.  You need to be comfortable with it.  2mg into 100ml is .02mg/ml so a 1ml cut would be a .020mg cut, which is too large to begin at for a daily taper.  But if you want to taper that way that is up to you.

 

I think I'm understanding a little better but I'm still not 100% there yet.  Ok, so the way I explained it would make for cuts that are way too large.  One dose at night is what would be necessary since I take Klonopin for insomnia and I need as much medication to hit my system at that point in time.

 

Going back to what you originally posted, you said there wasn't a need for a 100 ml graduated cylinder.  Later on, you said that I am going to need to still use 100 ml of whole milk, so I definitely would need the 100 ml graduated cylinder anyhow just to measure to put an accurate amount in a jam jar right?  When I put the 1 mg Klonopin pill into the jam jar and then pour the milk on it, does the pill need to be crushed with a mortar and pestle first or does the milk dissolve the pill?  Also, you mentioned overnight so do I need to wait overnight for that particular dose to be prepared?

 

Ok, so then basically if I have a correctly prepared liquid dose, I should drink the regular amount of the liquid 1 mg dose for a week or two with the 2 mg pill regularly to see how I react (i.e. no cutting yet).  Now, let's assume I react well.  Now I'd want to start cutting.  So I'd take a 1 ml oral syringe and remove .15 ml from the jam jar for a cut of .0015 mg so there would be 2.9985 mg of Klonopin total in the jam jar.  So I would then drink all of the milk in the jam jar.  I would then hold at this dose for 14 days to see if I react well and make further cuts as needed.

 

Why would I need the 10 ml oral syringe since it seems like the 1 ml oral syringe will be doing all the work of the cutting?  Should I start titration with the 2 mg pill or the 1 mg pill?  Those are the only two pill types I have to work with unless I can convince my pdoc to give me .5 mg pills.

I think I'm understanding a little better but I'm still not 100% there yet.  Ok, so the way I explained it would make for cuts that are way too large.  One dose at night is what would be necessary since I take Klonopin for insomnia and I need as much medication to hit my system at that point in time.

 

Going back to what you originally posted, you said there wasn't a need for a 100 ml graduated cylinder.  Later on, you said that I am going to need to still use 100 ml of whole milk, so I definitely would need the 100 ml graduated cylinder anyhow just to measure to put an accurate amount in a jam jar right?

 

Ten pulls on a 10ml syringe will do this too and be more accurate.  It's a good idea to minimize the amount of contact surfaces when dealing with liquids.  But if you do the procedure the same each time the cylinder may work well too.  You can also get bigger syringes like 50ml to cut down on time.

 

When I put the 1 mg Klonopin pill into the jam jar and then pour the milk on it, does the pill need to be crushed with a mortar and pestle first or does the milk dissolve the pill?

 

Most pill brands do fine by just dropping them into the liquid, but some may need help so I'd test yours to see if you are comfortable with it.  It is best not to crush if possible to reduce loss of benzo on the M&P surfaces.

 

Also, you mentioned overnight so do I need to wait overnight for that particular dose to be prepared?

 

Dissolving is not an instant process.  It takes time and we don't really know just how much.  I would think it happens fairly fast and that overnight is way overkill.  You could try shorter periods and see.

 

Ok, so then basically if I have a correctly prepared liquid dose, I should drink the regular amount of the liquid 1 mg dose for a week or two with the 2 mg pill regularly to see how I react (i.e. no cutting yet).  Now, let's assume I react well.  Now I'd want to start cutting.  So I'd take a 1 ml oral syringe and remove .15 ml from the jam jar for a cut of .0015 mg so there would be 2.9985 mg of Klonopin total in the jam jar.  So I would then drink all of the milk in the jam jar.  I would then hold at this dose for 14 days to see if I react well and make further cuts as needed.

 

To be clear, you remove an ADDITIONAL .0015mg each day.  You are testing the cut rate.  At the end of 14 days you would have reduced .021mg.

 

TBH I'm being careful by suggesting a .0015mg cut.  At your dose of 3mg I'm tempted to suggest a .0025mg starting cut.  3mg is a very high dose and typically the higher you are the bigger you can cut.  Just letting you know my thinking.

 

Why would I need the 10 ml oral syringe since it seems like the 1 ml oral syringe will be doing all the work of the cutting?  Should I start titration with the 2 mg pill or the 1 mg pill?  Those are the only two pill types I have to work with unless I can convince my pdoc to give me .5 mg pills.

 

The 10ml is good for dispensing and also will assist in cutting beyond 1ml.

 

It would be good to have .5mg pills, but it is not necessary.  If you tapered a .5mg pill at a time you could use less milk.  My initial reaction was to taper the 1mg first, but it might make more sense to hold the 1mg for last when you need more accuracy at the lower doses.

I think I'm understanding a little better but I'm still not 100% there yet.  Ok, so the way I explained it would make for cuts that are way too large.  One dose at night is what would be necessary since I take Klonopin for insomnia and I need as much medication to hit my system at that point in time.

 

Going back to what you originally posted, you said there wasn't a need for a 100 ml graduated cylinder.  Later on, you said that I am going to need to still use 100 ml of whole milk, so I definitely would need the 100 ml graduated cylinder anyhow just to measure to put an accurate amount in a jam jar right?

 

Ten pulls on a 10ml syringe will do this too and be more accurate.  It's a good idea to minimize the amount of contact surfaces when dealing with liquids.  But if you do the procedure the same each time the cylinder may work well too.  You can also get bigger syringes like 50ml to cut down on time.

 

When I put the 1 mg Klonopin pill into the jam jar and then pour the milk on it, does the pill need to be crushed with a mortar and pestle first or does the milk dissolve the pill?

 

Most pill brands do fine by just dropping them into the liquid, but some may need help so I'd test yours to see if you are comfortable with it.  It is best not to crush if possible to reduce loss of benzo on the M&P surfaces.

 

Also, you mentioned overnight so do I need to wait overnight for that particular dose to be prepared?

 

Dissolving is not an instant process.  It takes time and we don't really know just how much.  I would think it happens fairly fast and that overnight is way overkill.  You could try shorter periods and see.

 

Ok, so then basically if I have a correctly prepared liquid dose, I should drink the regular amount of the liquid 1 mg dose for a week or two with the 2 mg pill regularly to see how I react (i.e. no cutting yet).  Now, let's assume I react well.  Now I'd want to start cutting.  So I'd take a 1 ml oral syringe and remove .15 ml from the jam jar for a cut of .0015 mg so there would be 2.9985 mg of Klonopin total in the jam jar.  So I would then drink all of the milk in the jam jar.  I would then hold at this dose for 14 days to see if I react well and make further cuts as needed.

 

To be clear, you remove an ADDITIONAL .0015mg each day.  You are testing the cut rate.  At the end of 14 days you would have reduced .021mg.

 

TBH I'm being careful by suggesting a .0015mg cut.  At your dose of 3mg I'm tempted to suggest a .0025mg starting cut.  3mg is a very high dose and typically the higher you are the bigger you can cut.  Just letting you know my thinking.

 

Why would I need the 10 ml oral syringe since it seems like the 1 ml oral syringe will be doing all the work of the cutting?  Should I start titration with the 2 mg pill or the 1 mg pill?  Those are the only two pill types I have to work with unless I can convince my pdoc to give me .5 mg pills.

 

The 10ml is good for dispensing and also will assist in cutting beyond 1ml.

 

It would be good to have .5mg pills, but it is not necessary.  If you tapered a .5mg pill at a time you could use less milk.  My initial reaction was to taper the 1mg first, but it might make more sense to hold the 1mg for last when you need more accuracy at the lower doses.

 

Alright, well I guess it's time to buy all of this equipment.  I'm still unsure about what type of razor to get as I mentioned in the other thread.  The only other thing I am unsure of what to get is what size container to keep all of this stuff safe and secure in.  I can't just have these things around the house because my family will throw the items out.

Well, I've gone ahead and ordered what I need to attempt both a dry cut taper and a liquid titration.  Whatever isn't in hand now should arrive by January 2, 2015.

It would be okay to just simply take a 10 ml syringe and measure out 100 ml or 50 ml of milk and place in a container.  Then just add the .5 mg klonopin powder and stir.  Take the 1 ml syringe and pull out 1ml from the suspension, then just drink the leftover K milk in the container? 

It would be okay to just simply take a 10 ml syringe and measure out 100 ml or 50 ml of milk and place in a container.  Then just add the .5 mg klonopin powder and stir.  Take the 1 ml syringe and pull out 1ml from the suspension, then just drink the leftover K milk in the container?

 

Once I get all the equipment, I'm going to review the different videos and writings and decide on what I think will work best.  Your method sounds like it works.  The one thing that bothers me about titration is that how can we possibly know that a proper amount (if any) of the Klonopin gets pulled out with the 1 ml syringe?  Wouldn't the Klonopin be all over the place in the milk, if not all the way at the bottom?

It would be okay to just simply take a 10 ml syringe and measure out 100 ml or 50 ml of milk and place in a container.  Then just add the .5 mg klonopin powder and stir.  Take the 1 ml syringe and pull out 1ml from the suspension, then just drink the leftover K milk in the container?

 

Once I get all the equipment, I'm going to review the different videos and writings and decide on what I think will work best.  Your method sounds like it works.  The one thing that bothers me about titration is that how can we possibly know that a proper amount (if any) of the Klonopin gets pulled out with the 1 ml syringe?  Wouldn't the Klonopin be all over the place in the milk, if not all the way at the bottom?

 

When a solid dissolves in a liquid it arranges itself uniformly throughout the liquid.  It become liquid K-milk.  Some think it is only making a suspension.  I have search and search for hard proof that it is dissolving, but have not been able to confirm this (or deny it).  But to me the anecdotal evidence is overwhelming that it is dissolving.

It would be okay to just simply take a 10 ml syringe and measure out 100 ml or 50 ml of milk and place in a container.  Then just add the .5 mg klonopin powder and stir.  Take the 1 ml syringe and pull out 1ml from the suspension, then just drink the leftover K milk in the container?

 

Once I get all the equipment, I'm going to review the different videos and writings and decide on what I think will work best.  Your method sounds like it works.  The one thing that bothers me about titration is that how can we possibly know that a proper amount (if any) of the Klonopin gets pulled out with the 1 ml syringe?  Wouldn't the Klonopin be all over the place in the milk, if not all the way at the bottom?

 

When a solid dissolves in a liquid it arranges itself uniformly throughout the liquid.  It become liquid K-milk.  Some think it is only making a suspension.  I have search and search for hard proof that it is dissolving, but have not been able to confirm this (or deny it).  But to me the anecdotal evidence is overwhelming that it is dissolving.

 

I could be waiting forever to try and get the .5 mg Klonopin pills so I'm just going to make due with what I have and that's the 2 mg and 1 mg Klonopin pills.  I have all of the other equipment finally.  If I want to just test my system's reaction to having a "Klonopin Milkshake" should I make it a 3 mg milkshake?  How would this work exactly?  Would I put 200 ml of whole milk in a jam jar and put both the 2 mg and the 1 mg pill in there?  Or would I put 100 ml of whole milk in one jam jar with the 2 mg pill in it and then have another jam jar with 100 ml of whole milk and the 1 mg pill and drink those separately?  Also, if I put the jam jars with the Klonopin mixture in the fridge now, which is around 3:15 PM, do you think they will be safe to drink around 11:45 PM which is around my normal med taking time?  Should I shake the contents of the jam jars before drinking or is it going to be suspended without a need for shaking?  Sorry for all the questions but I do not want to mess this up.

I could be waiting forever to try and get the .5 mg Klonopin pills so I'm just going to make due with what I have and that's the 2 mg and 1 mg Klonopin pills.  I have all of the other equipment finally.  If I want to just test my system's reaction to having a "Klonopin Milkshake" should I make it a 3 mg milkshake?  How would this work exactly?  Would I put 200 ml of whole milk in a jam jar and put both the 2 mg and the 1 mg pill in there?  Or would I put 100 ml of whole milk in one jam jar with the 2 mg pill in it and then have another jam jar with 100 ml of whole milk and the 1 mg pill and drink those separately?  Also, if I put the jam jars with the Klonopin mixture in the fridge now, which is around 3:15 PM, do you think they will be safe to drink around 11:45 PM which is around my normal med taking time?  Should I shake the contents of the jam jars before drinking or is it going to be suspended without a need for shaking?  Sorry for all the questions but I do not want to mess this up.

 

I think it would be okay.  Dissolving might happen quite quickly.

 

I'd put 1mg into 100ml if it were me.  The thing is the more drug you liquify the more liquid you need to get the same concentration, so you can save on milk by liquifying less K.  You want to match the concentration to the syringe size you are using.  So for a 1ml syringe putting 1mg into 100ml would be a workable choice.  Each .001mg cut would be .1ml.

After trying going down by dry cutting .125 mg at a time, I don't think it's going to work out.  I am experiencing insomnia which is leading to hypomania which will lead to inpatient hospitalization.  I think liquid titration may be my only option at this point.  I am going through my equipment that I bought to taper and I will list it here and present the full situation when I update the thread later tonight.