ambien abuse

hello, I'm new to this forum although I have read many of the discussions and I am sure this site can give me the help and support I need.  My main issue has not been with the benzos but rather with the z drug ambien.  I have used ambien 10mg straight for probably 6 years now.  After developing many of the same symptoms of benzo use I quit rather abruptly four months ago and of course had all the classic withdrawal symptoms that were utter hell!!!  The problem is that my head as felt in a fog or headaches the whole 4 months and my insominia is horrible, so two weeks ago I took ambien for 10 days which helped the head fogginess at night but symptoms return in the day.  I have had a normal brain mri and ct scan.  I wonder if I could be in a protracted withdrawal and what would help with the sleep and brain fogginess?  Any comments would be welcome and I could give more information.  thanks

hello, I'm new to this forum although I have read many of the discussions and I am sure this site can give me the help and support I need.  My main issue has not been with the benzos but rather with the z drug ambien.  I have used ambien 10mg straight for probably 6 years now.  After developing many of the same symptoms of benzo use I quit rather abruptly four months ago and of course had all the classic withdrawal symptoms that were utter hell!!!  The problem is that my head as felt in a fog or headaches the whole 4 months and my insominia is horrible, so two weeks ago I took ambien for 10 days which helped the head fogginess at night but symptoms return in the day.  I have had a normal brain mri and ct scan.  I wonder if I could be in a protracted withdrawal and what would help with the sleep and brain fogginess?  Any comments would be welcome and I could give more information.  thanks

 

Hi slupa,

 

Welcome to BenzoBuddies!!

 

If you are feeling bad during the day, more than likely you are suffering interdosal w/d symptoms. Although Ambien is meant as only a sleeping pill, after taking it for long period of times, people develop w/d symptoms during the day and need to take it a few times a day in order to feel well.

 

The only thing we could recommend to get rid of the fogginess is to taper off the Ambien and give your body time to heal whereas your sleep should return to normal.

 

You may want to read The Ashton Manual that deals with benzo use and withdrawal and also lumps the Z drugs in with the benzos. Here is a link .... http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/index.htm

 

Others may stop by with their advice and experiences!

 

T2

Hi slupa96,

 

Welcome to BB!  You are definitely in wd from the Ambien and it will take some time for your brain to reset itself for sleep.  There's really nothing that you can do to hurry this process along but give yourself time to heal.  

 

You can do a search for 'insomnia' and you will find what others have tried to help, some with success, but everyone is different and what helps one may not help another.  It's more of a trail and error for each of us.  

 

When I've gotten desperate I've taken Tylenol PM but I use it sparingly.  The brain will reset it's self given time.

 

TS

 

 

I have had some success with doxylamine which is in unisom, but i wonder if trazadone would be better or if it would complicate my recovery.  I have had some success with the beta blocker metoprolol if needed for anxiety, but have heard clonidine is better for withdrawal.  What do you think?

I have had some success with doxylamine which is in unisom, but i wonder if trazadone would be better or if it would complicate my recovery.  I have had some success with the beta blocker metoprolol if needed for anxiety, but have heard clonidine is better for withdrawal.  What do you think?

 

Honestly slupa, I believe that anything you take while in withdrawal will complicate your recovery.  I think while trying to fix one problem you create another one.  Just like the drs. when they put us on these drugs, the were giving us drugs for the side effects of the drugs we were already taking.

 

I don't have any personal knowledge of the drugs you mention but I don't recommend any of them because I know what it takes to heal from benzo and z drugs.  Your brain can't regulate itself if you keep adding to the mix. 

Thanks for the replies, I really appreciate it.  One more question,  as I was off ambien for four months and then have taken it again for the last 10 days should I try to taper back off of it or just stop

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the replies I really appreciate it.  One more question where I have been off ambien for four months and now have been taking again for 10 days (crazy I know) should i start tapering off or just go back off.  Also, do you think I just wiped out the previous four months of the healing process.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks for the replies, I really appreciate it.  One more question,  as I was off ambien for four months and then have taken it again for the last 10 days should I try to taper back off of it or just stop

 

 

 

I don't think 10 days would reverse four months of healing. I still think you should taper off as safely as you can. How much are you taking now and what size pills do you have?

 

I would also suggest a taper off starting at 3/4 of a pill.  You indicated 10 mg so that isn't the CR form.   

 

You can expect to experience withdrawal symptoms during the day if you only take it at night as I did. 

 

I was on about 11 years and took my time to get off it once I started the taper. I kept reinstating and it slowed it down immensely but I am now off, still fighting insomnia, but the mind is a lot clearer during the day. 

i have the 10mg pills and have only been taking 5mg at night.  I am glad to hear that others have beat this thing even after such long periods of use.

Hi slupa96,

 

I got your PM and thought I'd answer here.  You've been given some really great advice today, but I can tell you my experience.

 

I stopped the Ambien cold turkey, the same way I got off the benzo's.  I don't seem to know any other way.  For me, it seems to be all or nothing, so now its nothing, finally!

 

It took me many weeks to get more than a couple of hours of sleep a night, it's amazing what the body can endure.  The nightmares when I was able to sleep were horrible and scary.  At first I could only sleep in 1 hour segments, but after a month I could string a couple of hours together at a time.  My sleep still isn't great, but I'm not sure if that's because of the Ambien or the benzo withdrawal I may still be living through.

 

I don't recommend cold turkey, but I hope you'll get off of the Ambien as soon as you can.  I don't recommend any other drugs to help you either, the risk of developing other problems is too great.  Try to approach this like so many of us benzo users have had to approach it.  Your body has to heal, time and patience are your best route for getting better.  Accept the brain fog for what it is, your brain has to fight it's way back after being bombarded with the drug. 

 

I hope you'll keep posting and let me know how you're doing.  Ambien scares me as much as the benzo's, please take care.

 

Pam

Thanks for the reply Pam I really appreciate it.  I will keep you posted, I took 5mg last night, I haven't decided if I will take 2.5 tonight or just stop at this point.

I have read a few articles on people who have addiction problems or problems weaning off of benzo's and ambien can have serotonin deficiency syndrome and supplementation whith 5 htp can be helpful.  Anyone have any insight on this?  You can do lab test on serotonin and 5htp but blood levels don't correspond very well to brain levels.

I have read a few articles on people who have addiction problems or problems weaning off of benzo's and ambien can have serotonin deficiency syndrome and supplementation whith 5 htp can be helpful.  Anyone have any insight on this?  You can do lab test on serotonin and 5htp but blood levels don't correspond very well to brain levels.

I know there have been some threads on 5 htp before, slupa96.  If you click on Forum at the top and then do a search on 5 htp and 5-htp and 5htp, you will probably find them.

If you have brand name ambien cutting into thirds is not too hard. 

 

When I started my journey to go off, I found a few suggestions on how to do it.  One was a pretty complicated 14 week plan where you varied how much you took each night but each week there was a downward trend.  I also saw a suggestion of 2 weeks at each of 3/4 pill, 1/2 pill, 1/4 pill then off. 

 

I could never seem to CT it myself.  I did a long slow general taper down even  ground pills up and did a water titration for part of it.  But in the end when I got to 1/4 of a 10 mg pill for a few days, I was able to jump off. 

 

Sleep is hard to get still but I am getting to sleep better and better each week.  I didn't have luck with 5HTP myself.  I didn't have much luck with melatonin or benedryl either. 

 

Just my experience is all. 

 

Good luck and keep us posted. 

 

 

Thanks for the input Annie,  I really don't know what the best course of action for a taper.  Where I was off for 4 months and now back on at 5mg for the last 2 weeks, I wonder if ct is better or just a slow taper off of the 5mg.  Either way I don't want to go back to all the horrible withdrawal symptom I had 4 months ago.  I just need to have faith and patience.

Hey Slupa,

 

Wow you think your nic is slavic or dozens of letters the way it is for me to type (sorry I'm just duh). And was trying to type it into my login name lol, how's that for real

 

Or maybe it's cause I'm always saying I've got soup for brains....................Ok sorry for all that,

 

Hey thanks for posting on my thread and telling me you're better after 4 months off from c/t Ambien and went through the same stuff I'm going through. I should come to chat and grill you with just what I'm getting if they are the same. But I'm so happy you got through it and thankful you told me because that gives me more hope now. Although I don't know if it will be the same seeing as mine is a benzo. Maybe someone can let me know.

 

But geez you did it and I couldn't last 5 weeks and reinstated. Waiting to see how low I can go so to speak before jumping again and am terrified as s/x are all coming back now with the taper.

 

If I was you I'd do a rapid taper or over 2-4 weeks. I'd take the insomnia over all this other b.s. but I know that doesn't make it easier for you and I so hope you do start getting more and more sleep sooner than later. Thanks again Slupa

hey scooter,

  the benzos and z drugs differ mainly in their binding sites at the benzo receptor, the ashton manual puts them together as far as withdrawal goes.  Either way they can totally mess one up as we both know, I just have to remain positive that eventually all side effects will be gone.  It is so therapeutic to be on this site.

sit's by slupa and enjoys the sights,

 

I agree with you so much. I only wish I found this site before I c/t my meds  :'(

 

I'm in such a mess. But I also would not have learned all I have about psych meds which I'm in shock from still to this day. And I'm still learning every day so such is the joy of life, and this site a life saver. For me I am so happy I found these wonderful people.

 

I hope you have an ok time with your taper and feel better soon. I know all to well the anxious periods and they are no fun at all let alone alllllllllll the other s/x. 

Good luck with your taper, if you have sleep issues then the insomnia section is definitely a section to checkout.

Hey slupa,

Welcome to BenzoBuddies. I was just catching up on your thread and see that you have already been given some great advice and hopefully, feel welcomed here! Since sleep seems to be your main issue, did you get a chance to read what the Ashton Manual says about sleep with withdrawals? Of course, she is making a point about benzos, but since tapering off Ambien can have the same withdrawals as benzos can, I would assume this would also apply to your experience:

 

Insomnia, nightmares, sleep disturbance. The sleep engendered by benzodiazepines, though it may seem refreshing at first, is not a normal sleep. Benzodiazepines inhibit both dreaming sleep (rapid eye movement sleep, REMS) and deep sleep (slow wave sleep, SWS). The extra sleep time that benzodiazepines provide is spent mainly in light sleep, termed Stage 2 sleep. REM and SWS are the two most important stages of sleep and are essential to health. Sleep deprivation studies show that any deficit is quickly made up by a rebound to above normal levels as soon as circumstances permit.

 

In regular benzodiazepine users REMS and SWS tend to return to pre-drug levels (because of tolerance) but the initial deficit remains. On withdrawal, even after years of benzodiazepine use, there is a marked rebound increase in REMS which also becomes more intense. As a result, dreams become more vivid, nightmares may occur and cause frequent awakenings during the night. This is a normal reaction to benzodiazepine withdrawal and, though unpleasant, it is a sign that recovery is beginning to take place. When the deficit of REMS is made up, usually after about 4-6 weeks, the nightmares become less frequent and gradually fade away.

 

Return of SWS seems to take longer after withdrawal, probably because anxiety levels are high, the brain is overactive and it is hard to relax completely. Subjects may have difficulty in getting off to sleep and may experience "restless legs syndrome", sudden muscle jerks (myoclonus) just as they are dropping off or be jolted suddenly by a hallucination of a loud bang (hypnagogic hallucination) which wakes them up again. These disturbances may also last for several weeks, sometimes months.

 

However, all these symptoms do settle in time. The need for sleep is so powerful that normal sleep will eventually reassert itself. Meanwhile, attention to sleep hygiene measures including avoiding tea, coffee, other stimulants or alcohol near bedtime, relaxation tapes, anxiety management techniques and physical exercise may be helpful. Taking all or most of the dose of benzodiazepine at night during the reduction period may also help. Occasionally another drug might be indicated (see section on adjuvant drugs, below).

 

I just have to remain positive that eventually all side effects will be gone. 

 

 

This is the best thing that you can do.  It's easier said than done at times, but always return back to the thought that in time, you will heal. Have you decided yet what you are going to do as far as getting off the Ambien?? You are at 5mg now, and I was wondering what kind of taper you are planning....

 

Lori

 

Lori

 

Thanks for the input Lori lee

    I plan to do short taper as I have only been on the 5mg ambien for the last 2 weeks.  I took 2.5mg last night and will probably do the same dose tonight, then half that for two days and then be rid of the monkey on my back for good.  This may very well  be to fast a taper but I really need to get off this fast as I don't want to really mess up 4 prior months of no ambien use.  I do not want to go back to where I started!!!!!!!  Although, I am pretty nervous that all my prior withdrawal symptoms will return and as you know that is absolutely the worst experience of my life.

Hey slupa,

I think you will be fine doing a rapid taper.

 

Although, I am pretty nervous that all my prior withdrawal symptoms will return and as you know that is absolutely the worst experience of my life.

 

I think this is what kept me from going back to the klonopin after 9 weeks now. I don't want to go thru all of this again. It has been the worst experience of my life as well. However, there is no guarantee that it will be as hard as last time for you. You have only been back on 5mg for 2 weeks, so hopefully if you have some withdrawals, they will be tolerable. Please keep us posted; we're here for you.....

 

Lori

hey Lori

    Thanks for the encouragement!!!!  Stay strong, that is so awsome that you have been off benzos for 9 weeks.  I think everyday we stay off is a victory with the promise of much better days ahead.  Are you still having any withdrawal symptoms and how is your sleep?

hey Lori

    Thanks for the encouragement!!!!  Stay strong, that is so awsome that you have been off benzos for 9 weeks.  I think everyday we stay off is a victory with the promise of much better days ahead.  Are you still having any withdrawal symptoms and how is your sleep?

 

Hey slupa,

I never went on benzos because of insomnia, it was for anxiety disorders. Since being benzo free, I do wake up during the night and usually pretty early in the morning. Sometimes I can go back to sleep, sometimes not. Just depends on the level of anxiety I am having. As far as I know, I am still having withdrawals; 7 years of being on the klonopin. I did get some blood and urine tests done yesterday at my dr. She is checking many things including thyroid, female hormones, adrenaline, cortisol, autoimmune diseases, and other stress hormones. Just want to be sure there is not an underlining condition causing all my problems. Everyone is different and some recover in a few weeks post benzos, so we just have to each take it one day at a time. Take care....

 

Lori

Your plan sounds reasonable.  As we always say around here:  Listen to your body.  If this cut throws you for a loop you can always readjust.  You know what w/d is like so whatever happens will not take you by surprise.

 

Keep the good attitude and you will succeed