Need Advice for Proposed Valium Tapers

Hi Everyone - I am a fairly new member of Benzo Buddies, although I have been visiting this site for quite a while (I think there are probably quite a few people who do that). I know this has nothing to do with the most recent conversation but just figured I would post for the first time.

 

I have been been on benzos and dealing with this stuff for exactly 2 years now, I'm sure there are many here who have done it for much longer. I had no idea what was wrong with me for the first year and a half!

 

I crossed over to 6mg valium from .50 mg klonopin in July (valium was sooo much better initially) and began dry cutting .5mg off every week. Things actually went pretty smoothly until I got below 3mg. Then things started to get harder. At 2mg i switched to liquid and was able to cut down to 1.2 mg in three weeks. Then the HORROR started. I didn't sleep or eat for days and literally spent 3 days screaming into pillows and crying on the floor in my living room. I had no idea a human being could actually feel like that. I had to take off work for a week because I was NOT functional. I updosed back up to 4mg so that I could function, because I HAVE to work and eat (I lost 11 pounds in a week and I am not a very big person to begin with). This is horrible, as you all know.

 

I would greatly appreciate any insight on this: I thought I was doing this taper smartly, but it became obvious that it was way too fast, and looking back on it now and at what others are doing, it was. I cut 80% in barely 3 months. I was cutting as much as I could stand, rather than letting my body heal from each cut, which is the whole point! (stupid!) So, I have been holding at 4mg for the last 3 weeks and I still feel like garbage and have no appetite, but I can at least function and force myself through a work day of tears. I go back to my doc on the 10th and have a few ideas for new tapers I was going to present. I would greatly appreciate any input.

 

A) should I try dry cutting by .50mg again and hold each cut for 4 weeks instead of only 1 this time to ensure I have stabilized? Then switch to liquid at 2mg and cut VERY slowly (like 2.5% per week)?

 

B) should I just begin right off with a weekly liquid titration (3.9mg week one, 3.8mg week two, etc.). Then again, once I hit 2mg go even slower/hold longer?

 

C) something else?

 

Both plans are similar in total length (apx. 1 year). Also, I am not going to adhere tightly to this schedule if things get too bad. The whole point of this is to try to heal while getting off of this, with minimal pain so that we can still function (lesson learned the hard way). So basically this is a question of do I make larger cuts and hold longer at the beginning, vs. just liquid taper smaller amounts. What has worked better for you guys? How long did it take you to taper from 4mg?

 

I thank you all for your help and advice. This is so hard. I will be in prayer for all of us. Thanks

To me your option B is getting close to what I would suggest.  Instead of cutting .1mg each week I'd start by cutting .015mg each day (which is .105mg a week) and see how that goes.  As long as symptoms didn't get worse I'd just keep cutting and hold if and when symptoms increased.  I think staying away from big sized cuts is a good idea.  The smaller the better.

 

B) should I just begin right off with a weekly liquid titration (3.9mg week one, 3.8mg week two, etc.). Then again, once I hit 2mg go even slower/hold longer?

 

  If you're going to switch to liquid, why would you do weekly cuts.  That's just a cut-and-hold taper using liquid V.

 

My suggestion is switch to liquid and do a daily taper.

Thank you both for the replies SG57 and Builder. You both seem to think the smaller DAILY cuts are the best option. Thank you very much for the input. I hope my doctor will go for it

I agree with my learned colleagues above.   IMO a daily taper is the best way to taper the low doses. So many people fall into the same trap you did, so you are in good company. I think we all tried what you were doing initially before we all found it just doesn’t work.

 

First of all you need to give yourself time to stabilise, because if you start a daily taper when not stable you will constantly be playing catchup with the symptoms. With a daily taper you cut amounts that are small enough to sort of fly under your body's radar, but you do also need to be prepared to hold if you feel s/x are starting to ramp up. A daily taper may not be a totally symptom free taper, but you should be able to keep your s/x manageable so you can still go about a relatively normal life.

 

Try not to have any kind of time table or schedule in mind when you taper because you are sure to end up disappointed. A taper will take as long as a taper takes, and no quicker.

 

SG suggested daily cuts of 0.015mg per day, and that's a good place to start. You might be able to experiment with increasing that after a while, but give yourself a good 2 weeks on that routine before you decide.

 

Just one other point I'd like to make. It's fine to discuss proposed tapering plans with your doctor, but please only do that if you are 100% confident your doctor will be totally supportive of you controlling your own taper, and that they won't interfere.

 

So many times I've seen people think they are doing the right thing by consulting their doctor, only to find out that the doctor takes control of the speed of the taper and dictates how much medication they are allowed to have. Even in some cases the doctor has cut the person off from the benzo totally. That is the last thing you want. As long as your doctor just continues to prescribe the valium, the people on BB will be better able to help support your tapering plans.

 

I have the method I used in my signature below. Have a read of it and it might answer any questions you have. You can also see in my signature how long it took me to taper from 5mg. The final 1mg took the longest.

Thank you Diaz-Pam! That is all really great advice! I hadn't considered the doctor aspect of the taper plan. Maybe I may have to rethink my strategy discussing it with her. It's sad that that is even a factor in this mess, but it definitely is. Regardless, as long as she just gives me the meds I need, I will definitely be taking slow, daily taper method that has been suggested. Thank you again!

SO, Diaz-Pam, the way I'm reading this is you took basically 2 years to taper from 5 mg Valium?  Can I ask how long you were taking Valium and how much (or other benzos) before you started to taper?  Were you experiencing tolerance symptoms prior to your taper?

I'm doing a daily liquid taper and I find it so much smoother and better than cut and hold.

I don't titrate my own, but I use a compound liquid or Valium powder in organic almond oil and I cut about 0.5 mgr every 18 days with this method.

It is what I can handle right now.

So it's still about 1 mgr in a bit over a month. But due to the smaller reductions daily,I can tolerate cutting much better.

 

I cut 0.05 mgr daily like this and hold a few days longer when I feel the onset of Wd symptoms.

 

If your doc doesn't want to, I would for sure just titrate my own.

SO, Diaz-Pam, the way I'm reading this is you took basically 2 years to taper from 5 mg Valium?  Can I ask how long you were taking Valium and how much (or other benzos) before you started to taper?  Were you experiencing tolerance symptoms prior to your taper?

 

Yes that's correct. My first experience with a benzo was temazepam which I took for about a month and then tapered off it over a few days with no problems at all. About a year later I started taking valium. I took various doses, but the maximum was 5mg. I took it continously for about 4 months before I tried to taper off and it was a disaster.

 

I was also starting out on HRT at the same time so my first reaction was that it was causing all my problems. My doctor kept changing the type of HRT I was on, but I kept having the same horrible s/x of insomnia, anxiety, depression and suicidal thoughts. This went on for about 6 months, before I finally realised that the HRT had nothing to do with it. It was actually working really well, so every time I started to feel good I would try to reduce my valium dose and that was when everything would go to hell.

 

I tried following a slower version of the Ashton Method, but that was another total disaster. I became totally suicidal, until I found BB, found out how to do a daily liquid taper, and I never looked back after that. Fast forward 2 years and I'm now benzo free!!!!

 

I don't know if my taper off valium was harder because I'd already tapered off temazepam a year previously, and was kindling, or if it was just that I took valium longer. I guess I'll never know.