Depression: The challenges of differentiating etiology

Hi everyone,

I supposedly have "major depressive order" and I am a benzo addict both. I got it ALL.

My Zoloft pooped out on me right around last summer and ever since I have really been in a persistent depressive state, being tried on this little pill, that little pill, 3 antidepressants once (true), then back to Zoloft.

I derive pleasure from very, very little. Hell I spent $1,000+ on video games early last year and I swear I don't even play them!

I am in a constant low level of fight-or-flight upset. How CAN anyone feel "ok" like that?

Then around January it seems I reached that most dread state of any benzodiazepine addict.

It All Stopped Working.

No matter how much I took. Tolerance withdrawal symptoms simply could not be quelled. Whether 4 mg Xanax or 10 mg, there was no difference and no relief.

(This was about when I turned to phenobarbital just to put down the agony--right about January this year. Oh now it worked. It worked so well I landed in the ER--and this brings us up to the present.)

Still with me?

So, I have hit rock-rock-rock bottom. Can't get away from daily, debilitating depression, cannot quell my addiction-anxiety thing and I'm just wondering if it is ALL tied to benzos?

A voice keeps suggesting once I get shut completely of the benzo use, sanity will return.

That voice says: "But Ten. You gotta get off ALL of it first for healing to begin in earnest."

What say the resident experts 'round here? Collectively your knowledge is very powerful. And for full details you'll want to see my Blog.

Ten

Hi everyone,

 

I supposedly have "major depressive order" and I am a benzo addict both. I got it ALL.

 

My Zoloft pooped out on me right around last summer and ever since I have really been in a persistent depressive state, being tried on this little pill, that little pill, 3 antidepressants once (true), then back to Zoloft.

 

I derive pleasure from very, very little. Hell I spent $1,000+ on video games early last year and I swear I don't even play them!

 

I am in a constant low level of fight-or-flight upset. How CAN anyone feel "ok" like that?

 

Then around January it seems I reached that most dread state of any benzodiazepine addict.

 

It All Stopped Working.

 

No matter how much I took. Tolerance withdrawal symptoms simply could not be quelled. Whether 4 mg Xanax or 10 mg, there was no difference and no relief.

 

(This was about when I turned to phenobarbital just to put down the agony--right about January this year. Oh now it worked. It worked so well I landed in the ER--and this brings us up to the present.)

 

Still with me?

 

So, I have hit rock-rock-rock bottom. Can't get away from daily, debilitating depression, cannot quell my addiction-anxiety thing and I'm just wondering if it is ALL tied to benzos?

 

A voice keeps suggesting once I get shut completely of the benzo use, sanity will return.

 

That voice says: "But Ten. You gotta get off ALL of it first for healing to begin in earnest."

 

What say the resident experts 'round here? Collectively your knowledge is very powerful. And for full details you'll want to see my Blog.

 

Ten

I'm inclined to agree with that voice, Ten.  I've already told you the shape I was in when I found BB and decided to find out what I was like off benzos before chancing ECT.  That was just over a year ago....

Hi everyone,

 

I supposedly have "major depressive order" and I am a benzo addict both. I got it ALL.

 

My Zoloft pooped out on me right around last summer and ever since I have really been in a persistent depressive state, being tried on this little pill, that little pill, 3 antidepressants once (true), then back to Zoloft.

 

I derive pleasure from very, very little. Hell I spent $1,000+ on video games early last year and I swear I don't even play them!

 

I am in a constant low level of fight-or-flight upset. How CAN anyone feel "ok" like that?

 

Then around January it seems I reached that most dread state of any benzodiazepine addict.

 

It All Stopped Working.

 

No matter how much I took. Tolerance withdrawal symptoms simply could not be quelled. Whether 4 mg Xanax or 10 mg, there was no difference and no relief.

 

(This was about when I turned to phenobarbital just to put down the agony--right about January this year. Oh now it worked. It worked so well I landed in the ER--and this brings us up to the present.)

 

Still with me?

 

So, I have hit rock-rock-rock bottom. Can't get away from daily, debilitating depression, cannot quell my addiction-anxiety thing and I'm just wondering if it is ALL tied to benzos?

 

A voice keeps suggesting once I get shut completely of the benzo use, sanity will return.

 

That voice says: "But Ten. You gotta get off ALL of it first for healing to begin in earnest."

 

What say the resident experts 'round here? Collectively your knowledge is very powerful. And for full details you'll want to see my Blog.

 

Ten

Ten,

What are you taking every day now and how many times a day? How much are you tapering, if you are? You have done this before, there is no reason you can't do it again.

T2

Ten,

The only way you will find out is getting off the meds and healing for awhile after being med-free.  Just read some posts about how others have been in a deep depression and anxiety state while being on these meds.

Patty  xo

Indeed, heed your inner voice.  Getting completely off the meds will eventually get you to a place of equalibrium.  That was my driving force and to be honest, I was pretty mentally lost for a few months once I was off the drugs (benzos, a/d meds).  Once off the meds everything will come into balance and all this pain you are experiencing will be a distant memory.  Believe it.

Thomas

Ten,

I had major depression whilst on klon. It kicked in about a week after I started them, and lasted the whole time until I was near the end of my taper. (about 7 months total) It lifted completely once off.

Eljay! Glad we are still friends.

Ten,

 

What are you taking every day now and how many times a day? How much are you tapering, if you are? You have done this before, there is no reason you can't do it again.

Theresa, I have NEVER been this bad. I'm stuck still at about 20 mg/day and my total supplies are running out rapidly (about 1 month's worth, I'd estimate).

Mak! Thanks for the positive forecast and Beeper same for you.

I cannot help but fret on this rate of weaning off everything though, or if it is all safe. Last night was horrific--I had panic-level anxiety for about two.

And remember after this supply baby, there ain't no more.

Ten

Eljay! Glad we are still friends.

 

 

I'm stuck still at about 20 mg/day and my total supplies are running out rapidly (about 1 month's worth, I'd estimate).

 

 

Hi Ten,

If you started tapering now starting at 20mg a day and followed a proper plan, your supply as you stated (#800x2mg pills)  should last about 3 times longer (approx 240 days) than if you stay at your present dose. Tapering is not linear. (I just got this info from Colin.)

Linda thanks. That is a looong time to me (which is good) and just may be doable.

I'm scared out of my mind... don't know how I got to this kind of ridiculous level.

Mostly right now, fear dominates me. Colin thank you.

I don't know what a proper taper plan means but I do want to start off big (proportionately as Colin I think was saying), because I have "so few."

Ten

Ten,

Do as Colin has suggested on your blog and ask for a taper plan.  There are several things you need to provide. 

If you want a plan that uses a fixed number of pills available, and are willing to do dry cuts, you can ask for that (and make sure I know you want that) and I can prepare something with Colin's permission of course. 

For that I need number of pills, dosage in number of pills per day, and how many parts can you cut the pills into easily.  This wouldn't  be the same kind of taper, but more on the order of going down one part every so many days.  This might be faster taper than the plans Colin normally provides.

You can probably even ask for a blending of these where you start going down by a fixed part of a pill every so many days then go to the liquid titration for the end.  I could probably work something out on that but that would take longer to develop. 

But you have to ask for it. 

You have to start this. 

No one can do it for you. 

Way ahead of you, Annie. See Substitution Tapers. Just finished with most of the information you requested.

What are dry cuts?

Lord knows I'm glad we're still friends. I need 'em.

okay - I am kind of new at all of this stuff

I see a post in the titration area but what does it mean?

Enlighten me. 

You want a plan to drop both meds?

Do you want a plan to go off these meds with the "limited" pills you have? 

Are you trying to make me go bald when I pull out all my hair? 

Okay - I am lousy at quoting pieces -

I would like to use water titratration but this really complicates things for me. (Mini-blenders? Beakers)

Someone posted recently about using some kind of mini- blenders.  I don't recall who.  You will probably need a mortar / pestle - kitchen supply store for herbs?  That is where I got mine long ago. 

The dosage is set squarely at ten 2 mg tablets. I don't monkey with that because my God, I could double this amount and not feel a thing--I'm in full tolerance withdrawal and it's something I don't play with.

well, you got to drop that don't you?  you got to get some discipline on taking the meds too

I take five Xanax 1 mg willy-nilly (prn) during the day (really a waste as I simply feel no difference and no relief). I know I will have to d/c this.

Do you want to consider some kind of switch over to all clon? or just drop this?

On the bright side I have managed to d/c ALL phenobarbital (Colin) as of several days ago.

GREAT

No, no, no.  Congratulations on your new position, btw.!!!

But no, I have to come off EVERYTHING.

Consult with the team and see if my post makes any better sense. Get with Colin and even stoneyco, as I believe they have a good understanding of things. I'm off to bed and will attempt to clarify item by item for you later when I get up, ok?

Thanks!!

Ten

My position isn't one of moderation and I don't have access to moderation discussions or private information about the members here.  I don't even see anyone's IP numbers but my own and I already knew mine long ago and it hasn't changed. 

I am basically a "math" consultant.  Colin and I have several projects in mind and they will all take time. 

Just I know the titration plans that Colin prepares require someone to have a cylinder in hand, requires them to specify a percentage drop over a given number of days, and then he cranks them through a spread sheet.  You haven't specified any of that. 

I don't know all the inner workings here obviously, but I don't think sophisticated titration plans are developed until someone asks for you.  I think the general idea of dropping part of a pill (dry cut) every week or two is out there. 

You are on 10 pills now.  Say you can easily cut the pill into 4ths (nothing fancy yet).  When can you go down to 9 3/4 pills and give that a try?  You know you have to do it sometime.  Can you do that today? 

Colin prepares require someone to have a cylinder in hand, requires them to specify a percentage drop over a given number of days, and then he cranks them through a spread sheet.  You haven't specified any of that.

Hi,

I did indeed and went into some detail last night in my Blog.

Ten

Colin prepares require someone to have a cylinder in hand, requires them to specify a percentage drop over a given number of days, and then he cranks them through a spread sheet.  You haven't specified any of that.

 

Hi,

 

I did indeed and went into some detail last night in my Blog.

 

Ten

Hi Ten,

We are discussing your situation and looking at the best way for you to proceed. You will more than likely not need to worry about getting any equipment as of yet. Titration is only necessary when you get down to smaller amounts and you do have a ways to go.

We believe that you should taper (dry cut) the Xanax first as it is shorter acting than the Klono. You stated that you are taking 5mg per day right now. We recommend cutting 10% off your daily dose every 7-14 days depending on how you are feeling. Since you said that you do not think it helps you out at all, why not try to reduce your daily intake by .50mg(10%) to start out, see how you feel? You may be able to cut sooner than 7 days but let's see how things go, okay?

At least get started with that cut and we will continue to assess your next steps.

T2

Colin prepares require someone to have a cylinder in hand, requires them to specify a percentage drop over a given number of days, and then he cranks them through a spread sheet.  You haven't specified any of that.

 

Hi,

 

I did indeed and went into some detail last night in my Blog.

 

Ten

My bad Eljay! I those details are in Planning Your Taper.

I even think I got you and stoneyco confrrrrused.

Oh what glorious days these are!!

Ten

Yes, eljay knows it all I think.

Colin posted your plan. 

Follow it. 

Hi Ten,

 

We are discussing your situation and looking at the best way for you to proceed. You will more than likely not need to worry about getting any equipment as of yet. Titration is only necessary when you get down to smaller amounts and you do have a ways to go.

Quite! lol

"We believe that you should taper (dry cut) the Xanax first as it is shorter acting than the Klono. You stated that you are taking 5mg per day right now. We recommend cutting 10% off your daily dose every 7-14 days depending on how you are feeling. Since you said that you do not think it helps you out at all, why not try to reduce your daily intake by .50mg(10%) to start out, see how you feel? You may be able to cut sooner than 7 days but let's see how things go, okay?"

Thank you Theresa and Colin, I PM'd you thanking you. lol

Sure we'll go with that and hey (as you know) I'm not exactly looking not looking for some... killer buzz here. Next to going COLD TURKEY (you'll recall), anything looks survivable.

Not fun. But maybe doable.

"At least get started with that cut and we will continue to assess your next steps."

You're on.

Ten

Colin prepares require someone to have a cylinder in hand, requires them to specify a percentage drop over a given number of days, and then he cranks them through a spread sheet.  You haven't specified any of that.

 

Hi,

 

I did indeed and went into some detail last night in my Blog.

 

Ten

 

My bad Eljay! I those details are in Planning Your Taper.

 

I even think I got you and stoneyco confrrrrused.

 

Oh what glorious days these are!!

 

Ten

Now you have Annie and me confused. 

Now you have Annie and me confused. 

Eljay,

Always glad to help.  :laugh:

Yes, eljay knows it all I think.

 

 

 

 

Thank you Annie. 

Yes, eljay knows it all I think.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you Annie.   

and here you said I confused you - guess I got to TAKE all of it BACK. 

lol

Well. We have a stoneyco (Patty), we have an Annie, we have an Eljay (Linda)... lol

Any corrections?

I'm Ten, right?