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Tapering off Clonazepam on your own?


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Backstory: I've been on Clonazepam for the better part of 12 years. I started at 0.25 mg and eventually hit 1 mg/day and have stayed there for a number of years. I've been on other medications but they either made me too sick originally, or I've tapered off four years ago.

 

Why on my own? My GP is a bit of a joke but those in Canada know it can be tricky finding a new one. My most recent psychiatrist doesn't communicate any more confidence (he doesn't believe in diagnoses but feels MORE than confident in prescribing drugs and pushes them). I haven't seen him in a few years.

 

Why taper? I've felt for a long time it's effected my memory. At the time it was annoying as I was a biology major and we rely on our memories. Now, it's almost dangerous as I work in First Response. Medicine is extremely basic in those cases (as far as memory work goes). But I will be starting a nursing program in January and there is SO much memory work I'm quite daunted. You can't common sense your way through drugs and doses or diagnoses.

 

The goal is to reduce, not get off it entirely. I'm in a good place with a small window to fuss around before I move back to Toronto/need my wits and anxiety to be stabilized.

 

Plan: I take 0.5 mg in the morning and 0.5 mg at night. Starting yesterday I took 0.125 mg off the night dose and hope to do this for a minimum of two weeks. If I feel okay in two or three weeks, I'll drop another 0.125 mg (though not sure if it should be off the morning dose or night dose).

 

Has anyone done this without the aid of diazepam or Valium or another drug? What were your experiences? I read a lot of negative things about benzo withdrawal but I've read some success stories as well. This morning I feel a little shaky but otherwise fine. Minor complaint.

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Sounds like a good plan, seafolly.  And yes, many people have come off Clonazepam directly.  It's advised to taper the original drug rather than crossing over if possible.

 

Can I ask why you want to stay on Clonazepam?  Due to the nature of benzodiazepines, eventually even a small dose will likely cause interdose withdrawal symptoms.

 

:)

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When you get to lower doses, you might not be able to continue to taper by .125 mg.

 

I would just try not to taper more than 5-10% (of your current dose) with each decrease.

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Sounds like a good plan, seafolly.  And yes, many people have come off Clonazepam directly.  It's advised to taper the original drug rather than crossing over if possible.

 

Can I ask why you want to stay on Clonazepam?  Due to the nature of benzodiazepines, eventually even a small dose will likely cause interdose withdrawal symptoms.

 

:)

 

I'm glad there's a chance it might work!

 

It's a fear thing, I think. It seems the hardest physiologically (if my sources were at all reliable) is the last jump. Is there any truth to it? I anticipate my anxiety issues will be tested quite a lot. In December I will be moving to a city that causes stress in itself to exist in. A lot of stimulation in an urban jungle. I'll be living alone which I've never done before and I don't relish the thought. And I'll be a full time student in a high stress program so I anticipate I'll need some help via the only drug that ever helped me. Maybe it's crazy to wish to stay on but within that context I get nervous about it. I do have a bottle of Lorazepam for an "as needed" basis but I've never even tested it.

 

It seems 0.125 mg is a bit more than 10%. Should I attempt to crush that quarter of a pill and divide it or carry on as I am?

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Please check your personal messages I have sent you something

 

Got it! :)

 

I forgot to ask, when you drop a bit, is it typically harder earlier on or as your body adjusts? Or is there no rhyme or reason to withdrawal symptoms?

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I personally almost always had a flare in symptoms day 3 after a cut...ithen the symptoms would last different lengths of time. My symptoms varied , sometimes it would be mood related, other times, nerve related, other times fatigue related other times G.I. related...it changed constantly and there really was no rhyme or reason...despite trying to find one.
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Thank you! :)

 

My mood has been quite low in the last 48 hours but I can think of external factors that might be the problem. I wonder if the withdrawal makes me more sensitive to it though.

 

Does it do harm to chicken out and return to the original dose? Would it make future withdrawals harder?

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Yes w/d makes your central nervous system hypersensitive. That is in my opinion the hardest part of all this because it makes everything harder...mild PMS turns into debilitating PMS, tired turns into fatigue, joint pain turns into agonizing pain...etc....But it waxes and wanes. Comes and goes in intensity. Windows and waves. You learn coping mechanisms.

 

Here is what I did....I had to w/d from multiple medications. I knew it was going to be a much longer ride than most people who were just w/ding from benzos. So I took a much different approach then them. Instead of just plugging away on a taper schedule, my w/d dr encouraged me to only listen to my body and let it decide when to cut, when to hold, how long to hold for, if i should updose, if i needed a rescue dose etc..... I did all the things most people on here would not do. BUT I knew I was going to be at it for years so I wanted to have some sort of life while I was doing it because sequestering myself inside for years did not sound appealing.

 

Therefore I held sometimes for months. This summer, extremely close to jumping I held for 6 months because I was going on a 2 month vacation and just didn;t want to deal with w/d. It was so worth it. And then I cam back and had tummy problems so put off jumping for another 3 months. And then I reduced the last bit and jumped. Remember that healing is taking place all the time.

 

My point being is you can take as long as you want to do this, and go as slow as you want. If just going full frontal and doing this ASAP is not for you, do it your way. You are the boss. I personally find that better than staying on them forever. They are not good for your brain. They have recently been potentially linked to Alzheimers (although more research is needed). They also limit your ability to produce the other neurochemicals in functional amounts, in your brain. Benzos act on your gaba receptors. Gaba is like the motherboard of your brain. If Gaba isn;t working properly and sending the right signals then the whole system is faulty.

 

Just go slow. No one here will judge you. No one will fault you for not wanting your life interrupted by benzo w/d. Going back to school is so important, it will exercise your brain while you are in w/d. It will keep you distracted which is a good thing. Maybe you can take on a lesser load your first semester?

 

Perhaps  liquid titrating might even be useful to you. That is when you reduce by micro amounts every day.

 

You have a lot of option and you can do this! Believe in yourself. And don;t believe everything you read on here will happen to you. DOn;t let all these posts scare you out of becoming benzo free. Also the more you come off and go back on benzos the more you can reach tolerance or kindle, both of which are miserable to deal with.

 

Keep the faith...you are stronger than you think you are. xo

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Also I just looked at your last cut...That was a significant amount to cut. That was 1/4 of a tablet which means 25%. That is huge. We recommend  5-10% cuts. I know the clonazepam is hard to cut. But if you get a straight razor you can cut it into 8 parts...Cut it into quarters first then cut the quarters into half. Or you can liquid titrate which is more exact

 

If you want to go back to 0.5mg and start over at  a better speed, then listen to your body and do so. It is all up to you. Also when you are dosing 2x a day, you would alternate the cuts. One cut is off the a..m the next cut is off the pm.

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Thank you so much for your replies - they've certainly been helping! :) Although I'm familiar with GABA (bio major and first responder) I never understood what was happening during a taper and so this helps a LOT.

 

As for cutting, I do have a pill cutter but the thing doesn't make equal parts of the 0.5 mg pill - I seem to do a more accurate job with my hands. Should I try upping a tiny bit using the razor method tonight?

 

Thank you so much for clarifying the alternation thing! I wondered and am making notes now. It seems I went about this the wrong way.

 

School is a massive trigger. The anxiety manifested itself in high school and only got worse. I didn't get better after leaving but I feel at my worst in a classroom. So this 0.125 mg drop is quite the experiment (school begins January 6th and I want no w/d issues at that time). For now, the goal is to lower for this reason. I think to get off entirely will be for after the program in two years. :/ I'll need all my strength to return to Toronto/downtown/new college/etc etc.

 

As for coping, for whatever reason my panic disorder has improved a great deal. I no longer consider myself agoraphobic though the risk is still there. I took an outdoor education contract that's basically social bootcamp for the anxiety sufferer and it changed my life (2013). I worked it again this past fall and loved it. I even spoke to 40 teenagers about stress and school. Public speaking -eek! But the contract is over. All I can do now, stuck in the country with no car or people other than my parents (Toronto will be great for these reasons!), is focus on exercise I think. I lift one day, run the next. I will continue to hunt for more distractions! I was going to avoid a lunch my mother is hosting (with her friends - one of which is difficult to cope with) but perhaps it will be a good thing to tackle for the mental stimulation. : /

 

Edit: Should I stick to my 0.5 mg AM dose right now and adjust later tonight? Or is there a proper time to adjust these things?

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I would stick to your dosing schedule. Same time day and night. And make adjustments at those times. As far as what is happening inside your brain...As a Bio Major I think you will enjoy this.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=66397.msg886973#msg886973

 

I use an xacto blade or a straight razor to cut. The pill cutter does a rubbish job. The 0.125mg actually works out to be 1/8th of your DAILY dose, if you are dosing twice a day, so you may actually be ok to just leave it alone and let your system settle and adjust to the cut. You may even be able to do another 0.125mg cut a few more times....but once you get down to the smaller doses you will most likely need to make smaller cuts.

 

 

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That was a very cool explanation! :)

 

I only have one question about the alternations. If one alternates morning and night like that, aren't you going back to back with a lower dose? Like...

 

AM: altered PM: normal

AM: normal PM : altered

AM: altered PM: normal

 

It looked like the brain goes for period of more of the drug or less depending on where you are in the week.

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I suppose you are right when you look at it like that. But don;t forget that you would have adjusted to the cut before you make the next one. So it would in essence just be a normal cut. ANyway, alternating is what all my doctors told me to do because it keeps the blood level stable. But remember you can do this anyway you want it's totally up to you. xo
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I forgot about the adjusting part...unless I'm getting interdose withdrawal or am psyching myself out. I DID get the window people talked about. The window of normalcy - wish I timed it. Just happened yesterday late afternoon/early evening.

 

I'm just basing my plan on the path that's most likely to lead to a smooth road! :) I forgot to adjust this morning's dose, so I'll have to try alternating tomorrow. : x Oops.

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Hi,

 

I just wanted to tell you what I do. You said you were taking your cut off of different doses. I did that. It didn't work out very well.

I drop my pills in milk. One in the jar you are going to cut from and the other your other pill. Take your cut out, mix them together and divide them into however many doses you take. That way you get equal doses and I cut every day. Just my way. There are many other ways and you should give yours a try.

 

I was in horrible pain when I cut pills. With milk I have no pain and very few symptoms.

 

Good luck to you.

 

Jenny

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You said you were taking your cut off of different doses.

 

I'm not sure I understand!

 

Though the titration method I can see being a route of choice if I get any lower.

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I forgot about the adjusting part...unless I'm getting interdose withdrawal or am psyching myself out. I DID get the window people talked about. The window of normalcy - wish I timed it. Just happened yesterday late afternoon/early evening.

 

I'm just basing my plan on the path that's most likely to lead to a smooth road! :) I forgot to adjust this morning's dose, so I'll have to try alternating tomorrow. : x Oops.

 

You don't alternate everyday...is that what your misunderstanding is? Alternating is for each cut....So the first reduction you would take your normal dose in the morning and the reduced dose in the evening. You would do this for anywhere from 7days to weeks. Then when you have adjusted to the dose change and stabilized you then cut the morning dose and leave the evening dose the same and do that for 7days -weeks until you adjust etc....

 

Congrats on your window! Enjoy!

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You don't alternate everyday...is that what your misunderstanding is? Alternating is for each cut....So the first reduction you would take your normal dose in the morning and the reduced dose in the evening. You would do this for anywhere from 7days to weeks. Then when you have adjusted to the dose change and stabilized you then cut the morning dose and leave the evening dose the same and do that for 7days -weeks until you adjust etc....

 

Congrats on your window! Enjoy!

 

That part I did misunderstand haha. Whew, glad I didn't change anything. :) This makes sense!

I just didn't understand what the other poster had written is all.

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They are talking about titration. This is done with milk and basically means you make a new batch of liquid everyday and remove a small amount and drink the rest. The next day you would make a new batch and take out a little bit more and drink the rest. The following day you would repeat again. You do this until you are done. This is called a liquid titration that is a micro daily taper. There are people who prefer this method because they are reducing micro amounts everyday instead of cutting and adjusting to the cut, the cutting again and adjusting to the cut. Some people do not like titration, I was one of them...my body did not respond favorably. Everyone has to find the method that they prefer. Or you can alternate them based on your circumstances...if cutting becomes too hard you can titrate for a bit then go back to cutting. You w/d doctor  can help guide you through the process. Or you can do it yourself. But titrating is remarkably easy.  some on here tend to make it very mathematical and complicated, with scales and powders and percentages,  but in reality it is very easy when explained simply.
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Seafolly: you can do this! If I could, anyone can :)

I used razor or fingers to dry cut.  You can go down to approx 1/8 of a 0.5 mg pill this way. I was never too paranoid about the dose accuracy. Just figured there will be bad days and good and I just have to accept it..

And yes, your memory improves slowly but surely...

BTW, today was my first day on a new job in Toronto.  What a nightmarish city it is! :)

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Alabama, how are you feeling since your jump?

 

up and down, but that's to be expected. My life hasn;t been altered because of it, it has just been more difficult. I wish this was over with!  :idiot:

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Titration sounds like a good idea! :) I think I'll give it a try when I next lower it. As opposed to another 0.125 mg down, I'll try half of that with milk. I'm feeling pretty okay so far, and even managed to fumble my way through a surprise scenario drill at a training meet last night (supposed to be stressful for normal people) without feeling like I had to run away. It didn't feel GOOD but I could manage it.

 

@uaydak: I'll give it a go but suspect to get an eighth I'll need titration! My quarters look okay but haven't tried to cut smaller. Yet. I have a similar mindset in that even when I don't cut it perfectly I just file that note away in my mind and if I feel worse, well, that might be why! But it helps to know the source. That it was my error and not my body suddenly protesting to tapering. Thanks for the words of confidence! So happy to know another Torontonian is fumbling their way through! It's truly not the ideal environment!

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  • 9 months later...

Just touching base!

 

I maintained at that dose because I began nursing school which is very intense. The anxiety was fairly under control by the time it started in January and I never once took the extra bit I'd cut off. The semester starts again in September and I would like to try to cut a little bit again. I never have problems sleeping so I'm cutting it off at night, though people recommend an equal amount in morning and night right? I just worry I'll have psychosomatic symptoms if I cut the morning dose.

 

The thing is, I'm 30. I'd like to have children in the next few years and do not want a benzo in a fetus' system. If it weren't for this I'd just keep at this throughout school but this might be my last month to try. Even though the upcoming school year will be pretty hellish. Am I crazy to try? Can I go back up if it's too hard?

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