Calling it quits

Hi... I am at .42 of Librium from 180ml in July, daily dosing that is. Regardless of what I do, hold, up dose, or cut smaller, I am getting slammed, severely. I do not want to hold for a greater length of time other than what I have been, I need to move this along as safely as possible, the battle fatigue is exhausting.

 

I thought about one more larger cut, then holding for no longer than about two weeks, but I can't do another round. I plan on jumping off in about two weeks.. I am thinking that .168 Valium, equivalent to 0.42 of Librium, "should" be, (definitive word) a safe number to call it quits... Any thoughts??

 

Amazing, just two tick lines, 0.004, a DROP, and I am severly symptomatic, this is unfathomable. I will add, that I am getting hit almost immediately after my cut, and my recovery is quicker as well. Just a thought.....

 

Thanks,

DF

 

 

Hi DF.  Sorry you are struggling at the end.  I don't know what is best.  These hard cases can be mystifying.  Just one thought though.  Going by your signature you seem to be moving at about .004mg L per day overall (.68mg about two months ago to .42mg now).  Have you tried cutting daily at this rate rather than dropping bigger and holding?

Hi SG, Thanks for your thoughts. The largest cut I have made was .006 and that was in the beginning, then cutting it back to .004 as you said. I was steady at .004 for a while, but I am finding it impossible to cut even .002 at this point. My last cut 10/4 was .002 from .046 to .042. very painful, but dealing. I am stuck...

 

One important thing that I need to consider, which I failed to mention, is that I have to schedule my cuts around work. Because of the intensity of my symptoms, I can no longer continue to work and cut, unless I can take a leave. I am planning to take a weeks vacation, then some personal time, if I decide to jump. I don't think I have many choices left at this point. A leave may not be in my best interest, from a work standpoint.

 

Can it get any worse?? Anything is possible, I guess... I have always respected your advice, followed it like a road map... your thoughts?

 

Thanks,

DF

I don't know if there is a good answer, but if tiny cuts make you sick try going even smaller.  It seems unbelievable, but you seem to be sensitive on that scale.  So, for example, instead of cutting .02mg a day and holding for 10 days, try cutting .01mg every day and see how far it takes you.  If that doesn't work go even smaller.  It's a smoother path that may better reflect your daily ability to heal.  As unbelievable as it sounds maybe that's how sensitive you are.  The assumption is a cut actually exists that will not increase symptoms.  We just need to find it.

 

How big was the cut before last and how long did it take for you to recover?

 

Also, how many mg's into how many ml's for your liquid?  You said your last cut was .002 from .046 to .042.  That does not make sense.  I am guessing .02mg from .46 to .42mg, but even still it is a .04mg drop?

Hi SG,

 

My apologies. Yes, I cut .04 from 0.46 to 0.42, you are correct. It was my last cut that was .02, from 0.48 to 0.46, which was tolerable and I recovered within about a weeks time.

 

So, okay I will try cutting daily at .02 and not holding. We'll see how far I can go. If my symptoms increase, I will have to switch over to a 1ml syringe with 100 ticks. I am currently using a 1ml with 50 ticks.  I need to use a magnifying glass to see the graduations, at my age.

 

You know, I was wondering about the concentration ratio of my liquid. It is 5ml/5mg. I am wondering if it should be diluted? You tell me..

 

You mentioned a cut of .01ml, how is that possible?

 

Thanks SG,

DF

SG,

 

My apologies again for sounding like a babbling idiot, I'm exhausted and my brain isn't cooperating. What I meant was, how is it possible to dose smaller than .01? Also, my concentration is a concern. What is your thinking?

 

Thanks,

DF

Okay DF.  I'm back.  I slept 6.5 hours last night.  Not too shabby.

 

I could be wrong, but here is what I am thinking.  You say you cut .02mg and it took you a week to recover.  That could be a huge clue.  You healed .02mg worth in seven days.  So on a daily basis that is about .003mg/day.  So my suggestion is to cut .003mg daily as this is apparently your healing rate.  Give it a try and see where it goes.

 

I want to make sure I have your numbers right and that we are not mixing up ml's and mg's.  Is your liquid homemade or pharmacy?  And is it 5mg/5ml?  If so, each tick is worth .01mg on a syringe with 100 ticks.  To make these cuts you either need to dilute or get a pipette.

 

Amazing that such a tiny amount of drug can cause such problems.

Hi SG, So happy you're back, but even more elated that you slept!

 

You are amazing!  Now, lets see if my faculties are working. Okay, I just want to clarify that I am using a 1ml syringe, BUT with 50 ticks and not 100. Each division is .002. My solution is pharmacy made at a ratio of 5ml/5mg.

 

A 1ml with 100 ticks is next to impossible to read, for me. My eyes are 55 years old, tired and overworked. I don't know how accurate my dosing will be if I switch. I am hoping to continue to use my 1ml with 50 ticks and just dilute my solution.

 

What would be the diluted ratio of my solution if I continue to use a syringe and not a pipette? Okay, so I should be cutting .003 daily, correct? Sorry for the barrage of questions.

 

It eludes me how a minuscule amount of drug can still be so potent.

 

Thanks SG

DF

If it is made by the pharmacy we would need to tread carefully with dilution.  We would need to know what liquids are used.  Is a visit to the pharmacy to discuss dilution possible?  Does it say what the liquids are on the bottle?  If we get the dilution down to .1mg/ml it should be enough. Anything beyond that is gravy.

 

To cut on this scale will be difficult with your current setup or even a 100-tick syringe.  For your current syringe it would be 1 tick every seven days (.003mg x 7 = .021mg) so you would need to estimate the six days in between.  You would need a bright light and a magnifier to have a chance at doing that I would think.

SG,

 

I think I follow you. So many changes at this point...Oh boy. Thankful I have you on my team.

 

Yes, it is possible to visit with the pharmacist to discuss dilution. Unfortunately no, it doesn't say on the bottle what liquids are used. 1 tick every seven days.. oh god!

 

Next step would be to get back to you with the info from the pharmacist, correct?  Okay, I will call today to see if he is available to speak with me today...

 

Thanks,

DF

Key questions...

- What are the liquids?

- Is it a solution or suspension?

- Can it be diluted with water?