Paint Me A Picture. Basic titration help needed!

Am considering liquid titration..

I apologise for my lack of understanding. In cog fog!! Can't bring myself to understand the titration method for the life of me! I read the same lines over and over but am unable to retain the info.

Need a simple explanation.

Even when watching videos on the subject I am still confused. Understand the tools needed. But need to understand the basic all around concepts.

Need help to start a plan, a schedule.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

 

The idea is to create a SLOW AND EVEN decline.  Maybe listing steps will keep it simple...

 

1. Liquify (several ways to do this)

2. Spread dose

3. Allow time to adjust

4. Begin taper by making daily reduction

 

All you really need is a 1ml and 10ml oral syringe and a few jars.

 

Ask questions to fill in the details.

Not sure if you've seen the method I was using, but take a look at the links I have in my signature. Most people says it's set out fairly well and seem to be able to follow it okay. Let me know if you have any questions though.

 

My simple explanation is this .....

 

1. Make a liquid version of part of your dose (eg 1mg - and take the rest of your dose in tablet form). My preferred way was using 1mg and making a 100ml mixture.

 

2. Work out over how many days you want to reduce 1mg

 

3. Divide that number of days into 100 and that will tell you have much to reduce each day (eg reducing 1mg over 20 days would be... 100ml ÷ 20 days = reduce 5ml per day (progressively of the 100ml mixture)

Thank you. I will be asking more questions.

hey Wes, if you do decide to liquid titrate, you don't always have to continue taking the bulk of your dose in pill form. when i got to 10 mgs. of V i went all liquid with no absorption (or lack of) problems whatsoever. 'all liquid' makes prep work easier and your dose more accurate, imo...

I'm currently at about 12.5 mg Valium (5mg pills). Benzojunkie , I see you taper .046 a day. How exactly is this done? How much do you take out of the 100 ml? What might equate to a fairly progressive daily taper at my current dose? I understand it's not a race.. but would like to shoot for a 6 to 8 month taper if possible. Any help greatly appreciated..

TBH, an 8 month taper from 12.5mg would actually be a fairly fast taper. I'm not saying you can't do it, it's just that as your dose gets into the lower amounts you often have to really slow down your taper rate. To reduce 12.5mg over 8 months would mean you'd have to cut 1.5mg every single month. You might be able to do that at the start, but you probably wouldn't be able to continue doing it the whole way. You really can't set a timetable for tapering. You just need to "go with the flow" and let your body dictate how quickly you can cut.

 

I don't specifically know how Benzojunkie is doing his taper, but if you were using a 100ml mixture, a 0.046mg daily reduction would be about 4.6ml daily reduction of the 100ml (you just multiply by 100). That means you would be cutting about 1.2mg every 28 days. On your dose that could be do-able to start with, but you would need to try it and see how you go, and you'd also need to keep reassessing the amount as your dose got lower.

I see. Thank you.. Diaz-Pam. I noticed your taper schedule in your sig. Did you experience W/d symptoms at tht slow of a taper rate?

Yes I would still get s/x if I tried to increase my taper, but possibly you're not as sensitive to valium as I am. I'm now 2 months off, and I'm still having some sleeping issues, but I'm hoping they will resolve themselves soon.

How Do I titrate using 5mg(V) tablets??

Was planning to get 2mg pills. Doc said no.

Looking to cutt 1-2mg a month (For the time being). I understand now how this is done using 1mg liquid solution. How to do w/ 5mg pill?? Have been dry cutting so far..

Need to start proper tapering. Am prescribed 15mg , 5mg pills three times daily.

Again.. sorry for my confusing.

5mg pills will work fine.  There are different combinations that can be found depending on what you want to do.

 

For example, since you dose 3x per day a straightforward way would be to put all 15mg into say 150ml whole milk to get a .1mg/ml concentration, take out your cut, then split the milk three ways for your doses.

 

But there are other ways if you want to only make one 5mg pill into liquid.  There are also other liquid choices.

Did you doctor give you a reason why you couldn't have 2mg tablets? Doesn't really make sense if he/she's prepared to give you 5mg. 5mg isn't impossible, it's just that 2mg is easier, especially when your dose gets lower.

 

Anyway, my suggestion would be to keep to the 1:100 ratio, because that is the easiest to work with. So all you would have to do is cut your 5mg in half (to get 2.5mg) and put with 250ml of liquid. Or if you prefer a 1:10 ratio you could put the 2.5mg with 25ml of liquid, but that will make a much more concentrated liquid and that's not always good when you are reducing small amounts. Of course make sure you use up the other half of the tablet within a day or so, so any inaccuracies even out.

 

Another option, which is possibly less reliable, is to cut your tablets twice to get 1.25mg and put with 125ml of liquid. That's still a 1:100 ratio, but the downside is that you are cutting your tablet twice and every time you cut a tablet the dose is less accurate. However, if you are able to use up the rest of the tablet within a day or so, it may not be a problem.

  Thank you DP and SG. Would like to make one 5mg pill liquid. Haven't yet purchased the measuring cylinder. So, for the 5mg pill will need to get a 250ml cylinder? How can I just dump a 5mg pill into a cylinder and cut that way? I'm super horrible at math even before w/d.

Will make a better effort at understanding.. reading other posts.

 

DP.. Was initially set up w/ psychiatrist when reached tolerance who I didn't agree with. Wanted to put me on other meds and rapid taper me, did taper me to 15 mgV, stayed there. Never went back for appt. but did receive refills via phone. Finally got health insurance back, went to the doc (General Practitioner) who originally put me on these meds and asked for 2mg pills.. refused to help. Have requested a new Psych doc. Hopefully will see them soon. In mean time, want to start tapering. Fear of reaching tolerance staying at 15mg(jumped back up from 12.5)

To be clear, Wes, you don't "need" a cylinder.  This can be done with syringes only.  But some people like using a cylinder.  Some people like using smaller liquid volumes while others prefer larger volumes.  For example, my choice for a 5mg V pill would be 50ml liquid so that the mg's and ml's would always match and only the decimal point would move.

 

You seem to have only 5mg pills available?  I am having difficultly making three even doses with this combination unless all 15mg are liquified.  To dose two pills dry and one wet you would need to split the dry pills into thirds and take two thirds at each dose.  I don't know of a good way to split pills into thirds.  This is a problem as IMO it is important to dose evenly.  OTOH, if you dosed twice a day instead of three this would not be a problem.  Do you need to dose 3x?  It would also not be an issue if you had 2mg V pills.

To be clear, Wes, you don't "need" a cylinder.  This can be done with syringes only.  But some people like using a cylinder.  Some people like using smaller liquid volumes while others prefer larger volumes.  For example, my choice for a 5mg V pill would be 50ml liquid so that the mg's and ml's would always match and only the decimal point would move.

 

You seem to have only 5mg pills available?  I am having difficultly making three even doses with this combination unless all 15mg are liquified.  To dose two pills dry and one wet you would need to split the dry pills into thirds and take two thirds at each dose.  I don't know of a good way to split pills into thirds.  This is a problem as IMO it is important to dose evenly.  OTOH, if you dosed twice a day instead of three this would not be a problem.  Do you need to dose 3x?  It would also not be an issue if you had 2mg V pills.

 

Why do I need to split the dry pills into thirds?

[in my head] OK. trying to taper say.. 0.06 a day.. Couldn't I just somehow take that out of the morning 5mg wet dose everyday (by quantifying use correct measuring tool and such)

And then take the other two dry as I normally would? Then proceed on down the taper with same process.. Can it not work this way?

.. Don't Necessarily have to dose 3x daily. Whatever works

I think it's important to keep doses even, but you don't have to.  People dose unevenly so you could do it that way.  It might go fine.  I was just trying to work that out for three doses and it wasn't working unless pills were in thirds.

 

But dosing twice a day solves that.  5mg dry AM and PM, then split the 5mg wet dose in half and dose AM and PM.

  Thank you. I really do appreciate your help. Was wondering why exactly though one would need to split the pills into thirds?.. I need flash cards or somethin! Hehe.. Have incredible trouble learning right now.. Basically, how do I cut 0.06 daily from a 5 mg V pill whether in halfs or any variation... what are the tools, method, and means needed?

thanks again 

Think I'll just split pill in half and use a 250 ml cylinder.. as suggested by DP

Am currently dry cutting one quarter of a pill..

 

I know what you mean and have been there and am still there to a degree.

 

I usually try to get everything even then reduce evenly, but in your case it might make sense to taper only the middle dose, since you probably only need two doses anyway.

 

So how about this idea - take 5mg dry AM, 5mg wet afternoon, then 5mg dry PM?  You could liquify and taper only that afternoon dose while keeping the other two steady at 5mg dry pills.

Sounds good. Will try that.. Thanks SG57

You're welcome, Wes.  Keep in mind if you need that middle dose, tapering it will eventually lead to interdose symptoms.  But it is likely you don't need it as most on V do not require three doses.