Any Milk Daily Taperers? Got questionsssss(or any daily taperers)

Howdy,

I'm just wondering if there are any folks out there that use milk to make a suspension of Valium for a daily taper. I've decided to use milk over vodka as I just don't want Vodka in my house at this point, I'm a former problem drinker and just can't stand the sight of it at this point. Essentially I'm wondering what, if any, problems you run into by using milk and how you avoid them. . . I don't want to lose half my dose by it sticking to the sides of a cup or anything. Also, Whole milk is preferred?

If anyone could really quickly write out how they go about making their dose, that'd be great.

ALSO A question for daily taperers in general - How much is a good amount to reduce daily if I'm at 6.5mg and haven't had too much trouble making .5mg cuts? I'd like to go as quickly as possible, because I seem to bounce back rather quickly. . . I'd like to do 1mg a month.

ALSO A question to those who did cut and hold and then switched to doing liquid daily tapers - What benefits of a daily taper do I have to look forward to over cutting and holding, if any? lol.

Hello. I was on ativan for 2 1/2 months and crossed over to valium and am holding and will start a milk titration starting in 2 weeks.

diaz-pam  has a whole page on how to do the milk titration, so go and find it--you will probably get an answer from her soon. also SG56(or 57) has suggestions as well.

my dosage is 10mg v 5x day---4 a.m. 8 a.m. noon 4pm and 8pm at 2mg each, because my psyciatrist wanted me to cut one pill a month, but everyone felt that would be too much.

so i am going to titrate 1mg a month until i can't and diaz-pam has it by cutting 1mg pills and doing it 1mg at a time in 100 ml, and taking the rest of your doses if any at the regular time and just eliminate one dose at a time, and SG suggested titrating the 2mg pill at once--which i will do--

with diaz pam 1mg you can start out my doing 2ml reduction for a couple of weeks and then go up to 2.5 or 3, but keep it low and check for side effects,i.e.

2

4

6

8

would be your cut, and you drink what is left

then you just add whatever you decide to go up to with the next dose, i.e.

8

11

14(if you want to go to 3ml).

and when it all adds up to 100ml that is 1mg.

i will do it SG's way which is use the whole 2mg tablet in 100ml and take out 1ml because it is the same

1

2

3

4

drinking what is left

and when i want to go to 3ml which i will do after 2 weeks to get that baseline because it takes about 10 days to feel symptom, i just add 1.5

4

5.5

7.0

but when you get to 50ml that is 1mg.

i plan to start at 1ml SG's way with a 2mg pill for 2 weeks, and if feeling good, go up to 1.5 (3ml) and keep it there and if i'm lucky, i'm so low i may go quite a way down before symptoms. the lower numbers i may have to go back to 2ml or even 1ml or whatever, but who cares.

fortunately i have a psychiatrist who just writes script for a month with 2 refills and leaves me alone.

again probably diaz-pam will contact you, but i thought i'd share what i'm doing. i'm going slow and low and if lucky it's 10 months from now, but i'm just going to be very careful and when withdrawal symptoms arrive, i.e. shaking, nervous, i'll hold and keep going and if holding a lot, go down----but again, i don't  plan to ever go past 3ml.

i will pray for your success. try to find diaz-pam's posts or just wait, she will respond to you.

anyway, once i eliminate 2mg, i just go to the next dose, work on that and keep going until all my doses are elminated.

take care

Howdy,

 

I'm just wondering if there are any folks out there that use milk to make a suspension of Valium for a daily taper. I've decided to use milk over vodka as I just don't want Vodka in my house at this point, I'm a former problem drinker and just can't stand the sight of it at this point. Essentially I'm wondering what, if any, problems you run into by using milk and how you avoid them. . . I don't want to lose half my dose by it sticking to the sides of a cup or anything. Also, Whole milk is preferred?

 

If anyone could really quickly write out how they go about making their dose, that'd be great.

 

ALSO A question for daily taperers in general - How much is a good amount to reduce daily if I'm at 6.5mg and haven't had too much trouble making .5mg cuts? I'd like to go as quickly as possible, because I seem to bounce back rather quickly. . . I'd like to do 1mg a month.

 

ALSO A question to those who did cut and hold and then switched to doing liquid daily tapers - What benefits of a daily taper do I have to look forward to over cutting and holding, if any? lol.

I never used milk, but am familiar with how to go about daily taper.  Really, I don't believe milk makes a suspension with V.  V is fat-soluble and I think it actually dissolves/binds to create a solution, which of coarse is a very good thing.  Full fat whole milk has enough fat and will work.  I am not sure if low fat milks have enough, so I would stick with whole milk.

At your dose I'd begin by removing .02mg per day for at least 14 days.  If all is well you could then consider moving up to perhaps .03mg, which is about 1mg per month.  Do you want to dose all liquid or just the "taper portion" of your dose?

Hi Fro,

I tried it with whole milk. It does solve but you will find some clumps here and there, which are the fillers, not the Valium.

However, it made me doubt it and I switched to the compound liquid, as you know.

For me the benefits of liquid daily tapering bs cut and hold: when I cut 0,5 , I got slammed too hard and took 3 weeks to recover, all the while feeling acute , starting about day 4 after the cut, worsening at day 8 and then not be in able to function.

With the daily taper I feel a bit crapoy every day but I don't get slammed. Except when I don't hold every 4 the day.

I reduce by 0.05 mgr each day. My solution is a 2:1 suspension so that comes down to 0,1 ml each day.

Thsi comes down to 0.5 mgr every 14-16 days.

Hope you're doing alright otherwise...

Moo

Howdy,

 

I'm just wondering if there are any folks out there that use milk to make a suspension of Valium for a daily taper. I've decided to use milk over vodka as I just don't want Vodka in my house at this point, I'm a former problem drinker and just can't stand the sight of it at this point. Essentially I'm wondering what, if any, problems you run into by using milk and how you avoid them. . . I don't want to lose half my dose by it sticking to the sides of a cup or anything. Also, Whole milk is preferred?

 

If anyone could really quickly write out how they go about making their dose, that'd be great.

 

ALSO A question for daily taperers in general - How much is a good amount to reduce daily if I'm at 6.5mg and haven't had too much trouble making .5mg cuts? I'd like to go as quickly as possible, because I seem to bounce back rather quickly. . . I'd like to do 1mg a month.

 

ALSO A question to those who did cut and hold and then switched to doing liquid daily tapers - What benefits of a daily taper do I have to look forward to over cutting and holding, if any? lol.

 

I never used milk, but am familiar with how to go about daily taper.  Really, I don't believe milk makes a suspension with V.  V is fat-soluble and I think it actually dissolves/binds to create a solution, which of coarse is a very good thing.  Full fat whole milk has enough fat and will work.  I am not sure if low fat milks have enough, so I would stick with whole milk.

 

At your dose I'd begin by removing .02mg per day for at least 14 days.  If all is well you could then consider moving up to perhaps .03mg, which is about 1mg per month.  Do you want to dose all liquid or just the "taper portion" of your dose?

Hmm. . . everything I've read was that milk just made a suspension, but if it is fat soluble then it would make sense that it'd be a solution. . I wonder if maybe the fat in milk floats to the surface, so that the solution is distributed more in the top of the jar/cup whatever. That'd be sketchy.

And yeah, I will have to try .2mg for a couple of weeks.

Moo, you mentioned you hold every 4th day . . does that give you a break of some sorts? And when you say you feel crappy every day. . Like could you put it into numbers? You said you got slammed when doing cut and hold, but feel crappy everyday doing a daily reduction. . . if 1 is fine and 10 is super crappy. . . where would you say the cut and hold made you feel, and where do you feel doing a daily taper?

Hi Frotob

The milk suspension vs solution thing gets debated a lot and there never seems to be a clear answer. Some say it creates a solution and others say it only creates a suspension. IMO "if in doubt - don't". In other words, work on the valium NOT dissolving in the milk, and only suspending, and then you won't fall into any traps.

As for how much you should cut every day, that is really going to be different for everyone. When I started my taper at 5mg, I started out cutting by 0.025mg (or 2.5ml of a 100ml liquid mixture). That meant that I cut my first 1mg in 40 days. The fact that your dose is a bit higher may mean that you can cut a larger amount each day. It's really just a bit of trial and error to establish what is the right amount for you. I think it's always best to start lower than you think you need to, and then work your way up.

Before I started my daily taper I tried cutting and holding just 0.25mg from my 5mg dose and it was a disaster. Even after a couple of weeks I still hadn't stabilised so I had to reinstate. The thought of having to do that throughout my whole taper really terrified me, but as soon as I found out about daily tapering (via BB) the whole thing feel into place and made so much more sense to me. Basically switching to a daily taper meant that I was able to cut my first 1mg much faster than I would have if I'd stuck with doing a cut and hold taper.

To answer the other questions you had in your first post, you could take a look at the first link I have in my signature. I think a lot of your questions will be answered there.

Howdy,

 

I'm just wondering if there are any folks out there that use milk to make a suspension of Valium for a daily taper. I've decided to use milk over vodka as I just don't want Vodka in my house at this point, I'm a former problem drinker and just can't stand the sight of it at this point. Essentially I'm wondering what, if any, problems you run into by using milk and how you avoid them. . . I don't want to lose half my dose by it sticking to the sides of a cup or anything. Also, Whole milk is preferred?

 

If anyone could really quickly write out how they go about making their dose, that'd be great.

 

ALSO A question for daily taperers in general - How much is a good amount to reduce daily if I'm at 6.5mg and haven't had too much trouble making .5mg cuts? I'd like to go as quickly as possible, because I seem to bounce back rather quickly. . . I'd like to do 1mg a month.

 

ALSO A question to those who did cut and hold and then switched to doing liquid daily tapers - What benefits of a daily taper do I have to look forward to over cutting and holding, if any? lol.

 

I never used milk, but am familiar with how to go about daily taper.  Really, I don't believe milk makes a suspension with V.  V is fat-soluble and I think it actually dissolves/binds to create a solution, which of coarse is a very good thing.  Full fat whole milk has enough fat and will work.  I am not sure if low fat milks have enough, so I would stick with whole milk.

 

At your dose I'd begin by removing .02mg per day for at least 14 days.  If all is well you could then consider moving up to perhaps .03mg, which is about 1mg per month.  Do you want to dose all liquid or just the "taper portion" of your dose?

 

Hmm. . . everything I've read was that milk just made a suspension, but if it is fat soluble then it would make sense that it'd be a solution. . I wonder if maybe the fat in milk floats to the surface, so that the solution is distributed more in the top of the jar/cup whatever. That'd be sketchy.

 

And yeah, I will have to try .2mg for a couple of weeks.

 

Moo, you mentioned you hold every 4th day . . does that give you a break of some sorts? And when you say you feel crappy every day. . Like could you put it into numbers? You said you got slammed when doing cut and hold, but feel crappy everyday doing a daily reduction. . . if 1 is fine and 10 is super crappy. . . where would you say the cut and hold made you feel, and where do you feel doing a daily taper?

Yes, the 4 the day holding makes it so that I don't cut 0.5 mgr in ten days and not get slammed.

Also, this way of tapering allows me to hold an extra day, or two, when I don't feel well.

With crappy I mean I get tinnitus, some vertigo and shakiness in the early morning. But most days I don't get it to an extend where I can't function. A little bit of xs daily  versus all overtaking xs on cut and hold. I'm not xs free daily. But have most days pretty much 80-20 .

Cut and hold around 8 or 9 ( feeling like acute) and daily about 2 on a good day and 3-4 on bad days ( when I went to quick against better judgement.

Hope you're ok.

DP is correct when she says there is no clear answer and treating it as if it were a suspension, just in case, is a good suggestion.  We know diazepam is fat-soluble.  What we have is a lot of anecdotal evidence.  I did find this study about diazepam solubility in milk, but they want $40 for the full paper and I am not willing to pay that.  From reading the abstract I get the sense that diazepam is soluble, but it does not quantify it outright.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1694991

It is important for the milk to be homogenized, which almost all milk is, as this is what makes the fat distribute evenly.

Okay after reading a few other threads I have a couple new questions if anyone can help here. . . Background info I take 3 doses daily, totaling 6.5mg - my first dose is 2.0mg, second 2.0mg, third is 2.5mg . . . I had been planning on daily tapering off of the middle dose until it was gone. . . Is there any issue doing that?

What would be the ideal order to eliminate doses? I am not going to reduce each dose the same amount simultaneously as that's too much bs for me lol. I had planned on eliminating the middle dose, and then maybe reducing the first dose down to zero, or perhaps take turns tapering my morning, then nightly dose. I have heard it's better to keep your night time dose higher as it allows better sleep, hence why it's currently at 2.5mg while the other are at 2mg even.

Second question - How long does it take for valium to dissolve in milk? And how much milk is required to dissolve the valium? Like do I just put the 1mg half in a jar, squirt like 5ml in the jar for (?) amount of time and then squirt another 95ml in? I've read it's a good idea to "agitate" the milk solution before removing the taper amount - what's the best way to agitate?

After writing and reading this over, I realized my "Second question" is really more like 3 questions, my apologies.

Thanks again for the help

There's no hard and fast rule about how you should reduce your doses, if you are dosing multiple times a day. Basically I think you should just do what you feel is best for you. If keeping your night time dose as the last one to taper, that would be fine. Some people even switch around how many times they dose as they are tapering. I've known of some people who go from 2 times to 3 times a day, and then back again. So you might even find that once you've eliminated your middle dose, you might prefer to move all your dose to the evening, and just dose once a day. Everything with tapering is trial and error I'm afraid.

The milk won't actually "dissolve" in the valium. It will suspend it, but you will see some residue at the bottom, but that's not valium. It's just the fillers in the tablet and that will never dissolve. I found that my tablets broke down very quickly - like within seconds. I always put my 1mg straight into the full 100ml. You probably don't need to leave it in the milk to "marinate" that long, but I used to make a new mixture the day before I needed it, so it would be left for at least overnight in the fridge.

To agitate the mixture I used to do a backwards and forwards "swishing" motion, and I would also pull up and return a syringe-full into the mixture a couple of times before I measured my dose. I'm not sure if you really need to do all that, but it doesn't hurt.

Okay after reading a few other threads I have a couple new questions if anyone can help here. . . Background info I take 3 doses daily, totaling 6.5mg - my first dose is 2.0mg, second 2.0mg, third is 2.5mg . . . I had been planning on daily tapering off of the middle dose until it was gone. . . Is there any issue doing that?

 

What would be the ideal order to eliminate doses? I am not going to reduce each dose the same amount simultaneously as that's too much bs for me lol. I had planned on eliminating the middle dose, and then maybe reducing the first dose down to zero, or perhaps take turns tapering my morning, then nightly dose. I have heard it's better to keep your night time dose higher as it allows better sleep, hence why it's currently at 2.5mg while the other are at 2mg even.

 

Second question - How long does it take for valium to dissolve in milk? And how much milk is required to dissolve the valium? Like do I just put the 1mg half in a jar, squirt like 5ml in the jar for (?) amount of time and then squirt another 95ml in? I've read it's a good idea to "agitate" the milk solution before removing the taper amount - what's the best way to agitate?

 

 

After writing and reading this over, I realized my "Second question" is really more like 3 questions, my apologies.

 

Thanks again for the help

It may be too much hassle, but if it were me I'd taper them down together anyway.  The idea is to go slow and EVEN and eliminating doses works against the "even" part.  It helps create peaks and troughs in your blood levels, which is what you don't want.  Even with V most people need to dose at least twice a day to keep level even and avoid interdose symptoms.

I'm doing alright in 3 doses a day and cut from them evenly, Fro.

I take 0.5 off my morning dose. When removed, I take 0.5 off my early pm dose. And when that's gone, I cut 0.5 from my late pm dose. Repeat.

Keeping the levels even.

Moo