Taper from both Valium and Ambien

Hello All,

 

I was first prescribed a benzodiazepine (Xanax) in the summer of 2010. I began taking them to relax and to sleep and, by January 2011, began having terrible withdrawal effects during the day. It also worsened insomnia and when I took it to sleep, it left me as a zombie in the morning and I often was late to work. To cure insomnia, I was prescribed Ambien in February 2011. I immediately loved it, it made me feel great (I would hallicinate in an enjoyable way) and woke up without any groggy or hangover feeling. I still took the Xanax as night as well due to going through withdrawal without it, and suffered from crippling withdrawal during the day (shyness, cognitive fog, communitication issues, anxiety driving, etc). Throughout this time I would take 1mg-1.5mg Xanax and 10mg Ambien. In May 2011 after doing some research online I made a switch from Xanax to Valium due to its longer half life, and this eliminated most of my daytime withdrawal and I regained most cognitive and communication skills.

 

By the beginning of 2012 I was taking 5mg Valium and 5-10mg Ambien per night for sleep and relaxation, and was doing relatively okay. I knew that I had a dependency on these medications but the dependency no longer seemed to disrupt my life.

 

This continued until August 2013 when I began to have a disruptive resurgence of withdrawal syndromes (OCD, anxiety driving, shyness, depression, etc). However they would be so arbitrary in their appearance that I did little to try to treat it. The only thing I did was speak to my doctor in regards to anxiety while driving.

 

Since the beginning of April this year things have begun to spiral out of control. Due to increased anxiety I bumped my nightly dose of Valium to 7.5mg. Then in May 5mg of Ambien no longer worked at night so I had to bump it up to 10mg every single night. Anxiety was surfacing throughout the entire day. I was shy, tired, drained of energy, and had no drive to do anything. I was emotionless at some points then depressed at others. I was uncontrollable angry at some points then sad to the point of the crying at others.

 

Since May, I have made numerous attempts to get on the right path to get off of these medications. I went to a detox center at first, which considerately did not accept me and suggested therapy. I then saw a therapist who attempted a fast taper utilizing klonopin, clonidine, buspar, and tradazone. These did nothing and in fact I believe may have made me worse. I stopped seeing him and threw out all of these medications except for my valium and ambien. I was now at 10mg valium per night and 12.5-15mg ambien. For the first time, 10mg ambien was not doing anything for me.

 

My last attempt at getting off of this stuff was going to a local community treatment center which advised that I go through a detox due to being on multiple medications. I am extremely hesistant to go through detox based upon what I have read here and elsewhere on the internet. I believe it will be both unsuccessful and make my situation and totally jeoparadize my work/social obligations.

 

So, my question to all the experienced and more knowledgable people here, WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST TAPERING PLAN FOR ME TO DO IN THIS SITUATION? I am thinking of tapering from the Valium first then the Ambien (one Doctor had suggested doing both at the same time would not be a good idea). I dropped from 10mg valium to 7.5mg valium about 2 weeks ago (I was not on 10mg valium for very long, only the past month) and so far have been having a hard time with it and have been itching for 10mg. The Ambien also leaves me off during the day and the dosage I need at night seems to arbitrarily vary.

 

Thoughts? Questions? Tips? Advice?

 

Thank you, and God Bless You All through your journey to recovery!!!

 

-Lonely Road 

The ambien is extremely short acting so the best thing might be to cross to all Valium, then taper the Valium.  Short acting drugs can be difficult to taper.

 

But if not, then I would taper the ambien first, then the valium.  The Valium, being long acting, will keep you more even and lessen peaks and troughs in your blood levels.

 

It pays to not rush into this.  Do lots of research and ask questions on this site.

My benzo withdrawal expert dotor and my psychiatrist as well as my family dr all agreed that w/d from Valium comes first , then the sleeping pill. Benzo W/d often causes insomnia and so does z drug withdrawal. Therefore it is best to only have the insomnia induced w/d side effect once. Z drugs will help with / if not eliminate the benzo w/d induced insomnia. Then when you are done you can taper then z drug.  Having insomnia or a bad sleep for months on end can make w/d so much harder to deal with it, therefore the z drug can help with that. 

 

I ended up tapering the benzo from 2.5mg to about o.25mg and then did my z drug  w/d. I ended up having to updose to about 0.5mg/0.75mg benzo to compensate a bit for the insomnia and some other w/d effects, and that helped quite a bit. Once the insomnia disappeared,  Then I resumed my clonazepam taper. Currently I am holding after needing a break from withdrawing from so many drugs for so long. I will be resuming my taper shortly. But for the most part I had bouts of insomnia and sleepless nights but nothing compared to most people. So this method worked for me.

 

 

Thank you for the advice guys.

 

I have looking to lower the valium but a big issue I am having is heart palps throughout the day. I do not and can not take valium during the day due to my long driving commute (1hr15 minutes each way). I have heard propananol may help with this but I am reluctant to want to add new medication into a routine. Would getting a medication for the heart palps help with the tapering?

We have had many members here have to go on heart medication during their taper. Anecdotally, from what I have observed , it is quite common. Many people suffer from heart palpitations during w/d. Many suffer from high blood pressure or low blood pressure or alternating. I personally suffered from low blood pressure during most of my w/d. It has since resolved itself. The autonomic nervous system plays a big part in that, and during w/d, it becomes slightly dysfunctional. As well as rushes of adrenaline and cortisol which raise blood pressure and cause anxiety. Our natural calming mechanisms are also slightly compromised so it is hard for us to simply calm down.

 

I have had to take several different medications during my w/d in order to deal with side effects from w/d. While I do not want to take more medications, I also do not want to be in agony more than I need to. So I balance the two and make educated decisions about new medications I throw into the mix. I know I won't need them when I am healed so I am mostly just grateful they are available to me to ease my discomfort.

 

Take care, Alabama.xo

Hi

I'm kinda in the same boat u r as u can c from my signature. I've also asked the same question as to which med to taper first and have gotten 3 different responses. I am leaning to Alabama's advise to kick the Valium first. I plan to make my first cut next month as I have some things to take care of. Feel free to PM me since we're starting out the same time.

Jim

Just remember the both you, that there are no hard and fast rules in w/d. You can change your mind, your game plan, your speed, your percentage cuts etc etc .....based on your symptoms. You can decide to start w/d ing from benzos and half way through find you would like to w/d from your z drug and maybe that will get hard and you might go back to the benzo w/d for a bit...who knows you might even alternate the two ....you wont know what or how to do it until you start and you see how your personal body reacts. Follow your gut instinct and your symptoms. We are all learning as we go along. ANd even though that was my doctors advice, and even though my benzo w/d doctor is a w/d expert, even he was always the first to say....his advice was a guideline and that it works for  most but not all, so go with my flow.

 

I changed directions so many times it was crazy! Just when i thought i had my game plan, boom I would get hit with a curve ball....some new symptom, some life stress etc..... and I would have to adapt. I had to hold my taper, much to my dismay at the time, many times for significant periods of time just to be able to keep going. I look back on those holds now and am so glad I made those decisions.

 

Your mental health and physical health is very important, without it you will lose hope and strength. Stress is one of the biggest triggers of symptoms in w/d. I know everyone knows that, and my w/d specialist, psychiatrist and family doctor kept reminding me that throughout my taper....... but sometimes I just couldn't believe that stress could be that impactful. But it can. I know you want off these drugs and I know you want the whole thing to just be over with. But from my experience and from observing so many w/d over the years, just take your time , be patient and be good  to yourself. Take care of yourself because this is not a five meter dash, it\s a marathon. And you will cross that line! Keep the faith.  We are all rooting for you!! Alabama.xo

Alabama, You mentioned several meds you took to ease the sxs of w/ds. What are they? Are some helpful for insomnia ?

Excellent suggestions and advice everybody. I anticipated that I would have to make this taper progress a long-term procedure, especially since I have two medications to taper from.

 

Would referencing the Ashton Manual be the best way to taper from the Valium?

Excellent suggestions and advice everybody. I anticipated that I would have to make this taper progress a long-term procedure, especially since I have two medications to taper from.

 

Would referencing the Ashton Manual be the best way to taper from the Valium?

 

Yes we have many members who have had to withdrawal from multiple meds. We are the ones that seem to be withdrawing forever!! lol  Personally I had to recover from ECT, then withdrawal from olanzipine, zopiclone and clonazepam.  And the worse offence was that I was put on all these meds, dues to a sore stomach that caused me to lose 50 pounds. So of course I was depressed. Not to mention that the consequences of being on so many psych drugs exacerbates depression ten fold.

 

I feel like I have been at this forever. But with each drug out of my system, came new healing and more mental clarity and physical wellbeing. For those of us who are polydrugged, I think it wise to take breaks. Many who are just w/ding from one drug ie Benzos, dont really understand how hard it is to keep up the stamina to keep going when you know the road is longer than for most people. Please don't pay attention to people who judge you for holding, changing tactics, updosing, or whatever you may have to do to get through it. Do whatever you have to do to get through it! It will much gentler and smoother if you base your decisions on your symptoms and not on a schedule. The Ashton Manual is a great way to start. But remember it is but a guideline and you have to tweak it to your needs not the other way around. The only person that needs to approve of your methods is you.

 

And who knows, you may have a super easy time w/ding with few side effects. Many people do, they just don;t tend to come on BB for support! 

 

Take care, Alabama.xo

Alabama, You mentioned several meds you took to ease the sxs of w/ds. What are they? Are some helpful for insomnia ?

 

I had to take a plethora of medication for my stomach and digestive system. It has been a constant battle for me during my w/d. And a few things for my low blood pressure and dizziness.

 

I tried trazadone quite a few times for insomnia but it always left me feeling worse the next day than if I hadn't slept at all. But it works well for other members. Others use OTC meds or supplements for insomnia. This particular three part series helped me the most change my perspective about insomnia and things really changed from there, because I stopped looking for something external to fix it, which is what I had been doing most of my adult life.  http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=78924.0  We have also had quite a few members use some antidepressants to help with side effects such as insomnia, digestive, nerve or depression etc.... And once they were healed they gently withdrew from those.

 

Here is also some useful info on z drugs http://www.benzosupport.org/the_z_drugs.htm

And our support group for members who are w/ding z drugs http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=97331.0

 

As far as other meds, I found tramadol the pain killer especially helpful when I had intense pain or my depression was getting bad. Sometimes I would take it for a few days in a row and it would boost my serotonin. However it is a highly addictive drug and can create the same type of horrible w/d as benzos so it is best to use with caution and only when needed.

 

I tried various herbs, supplements and vitamins with mixed results. Mostly negative. The vitamins I took pre w/d just made me sick in w/d but this is very common as we become hypersensitive in w/d.Now that I am almost healed I can tolerate them, and in fact feel good on them, again.

 

Take care, Alabama.xo

Just a quick update...

 

As I've originally stated, the past few months things have gotten out of control. Back in April I was taking 7.5mg valium and 5mg ambien at night to sleep with little issues. Now things have escalated at a quick and alarming level. I take 10mg valium a night (for the past few weeks) and 12.5-15mg valium. In the past few months, all attempts at getting help (general doctor, psychiatrist, consultations at detox centers and outpatient facilities) have not been helpful in the slightest.

 

I attempted to drop back down to 7.5mg valium with the mindset that it should be relatively easy since that was the dose I was taking up until about a month ago. The first week things seems to be working out okay but then I hit a wall and withdrawal effects slapped me in the face like a ton of bricks. I feel physically weak, anxiety through the roof, heart palps, etc. I bumped back up to 10mg valium per night but the situation does not seem to have rectified itself.

 

I also began to experience brand new withdrawal effects; severe depression and depersonalization (I felt that everybody I knew did not like me, was out to get me, and could somehow magically see that I was struggling with drug dependence). Very strange feelings.

I also have a fear of traveling anywhere outside of my house and my job.

 

Getting off the Valium is really tough and intense, and every "medical professional" I speak to tells me the same thing; my doses are very low and it should not be that hard. I want to scream at every single one of them!

 

At a loss of what to do.

Just a quick update...

 

As I've originally stated, the past few months things have gotten out of control. Back in April I was taking 7.5mg valium and 5mg ambien at night to sleep with little issues. Now things have escalated at a quick and alarming level. I take 10mg valium a night (for the past few weeks) and 12.5-15mg valium. In the past few months, all attempts at getting help (general doctor, psychiatrist, consultations at detox centers and outpatient facilities) have not been helpful in the slightest.

 

I attempted to drop back down to 7.5mg valium with the mindset that it should be relatively easy since that was the dose I was taking up until about a month ago. The first week things seems to be working out okay but then I hit a wall and withdrawal effects slapped me in the face like a ton of bricks. I feel physically weak, anxiety through the roof, heart palps, etc. I bumped back up to 10mg valium per night but the situation does not seem to have rectified itself.

 

I also began to experience brand new withdrawal effects; severe depression and depersonalization (I felt that everybody I knew did not like me, was out to get me, and could somehow magically see that I was struggling with drug dependence). Very strange feelings.

I also have a fear of traveling anywhere outside of my house and my job.

 

Getting off the Valium is really tough and intense, and every "medical professional" I speak to tells me the same thing; my doses are very low and it should not be that hard. I want to scream at every single one of them!

 

At a loss of what to do.

 

Taper the ambien first as Ashton uses valium to get people off Ambien.

 

Reason #2.  You DO NOT want to be on an Hypnotic like Ambien while in valium withdrawal!  The hallucinations and vivid dreams can get very scary / overwhelming with the added glutamate rush of w/d!

But wouldn't Ambien be beneficial for the insomnia that comes with Valium W/D?

 

Also, my Doctor wants to put me on either Celexa or Zoloft to assist with the tapering. I am obviously very hesitant because I do not want to contribute more medications to my cycle and add another thing to my list of pills to have to taper from. Thoughts?

I personally would start my w/d and see how it goes first before i added a new medication. However that being said, there is no shame in having to add an antidepressant to the mix while in w/d. Many members here have experienced crippling depression and we have had several members take an A/D as it helps to ease it. I did at one point give it a try as well, but had a bad reaction to the a/d. 

 

Just take your w/d one day at a time and see how you are feeling and which direction you want to go in. Unfortunately no one can predict how you will react to your w/d. You will just have to take it as it comes and adapt as you see fit. We are here to help support you through it!

 

Bama.

Yeah, I would not tax my brain further so I would not add an AD.  The situation would have to be really pressing for me to consider it.  Honestly, I think psych meds are junk science.  The improvement rates for ADs are near placebo and they really don't know what they are doing in the brain.  The brain is far more complex than one simple chemical.

 

I think the fact that Ambien is short acting is more important than any sleep affects.  When you begin removing either Ambien or the benzo sleep disruption will occur.  I think removing Ambien first or crossing it to the benzo is the thing to do.