Librium Tapper support group

Wanted to start a support group for Librium.  I know not many are on it but we need one.  Anyone here on as high a dose as me and what helped? I'm struggling so hard debating psych ward every day but don't want to miss my kids growing up. Hanging on by a thread and want others support/experience.  Mo2

Hey M2!

I actually just suggested to someone to start a new support group for Librium Taperers!

Glad to see it's here...

Hope your thread will be visited often and will pass on the link when I come across members on Librium as well.

Moo

I have already tapered chlordiazepoxide, but am still taking amitriptyline. I think starting amitriptyline again was one of the biggest mistakes in my life. And I don't know how I could have avoided it. I tapered chlordiazepoxide + amitriptyline (as they were together in my pill) for 19 months. My taper went really well the first summer. In about 4 or 5 months I was able to cut my dose to half. I started with 5 pills and was taking 2 and a half in the fall. I thought this will not become too hard.

 

But I was ill all the fall. Flu like symptoms. I also lost my voice for a month and couldn't work as a teacher. That made me anxious. I was relieved when my voice returned back. Later after moving to a new apartment I developed chemical sensitivity or something like that. I was even more stressed, because I thought it will make my everyday much more difficult. It eased in a couple of months so much that it didn't bother me anymore, for a while.

 

In the spring and summer I again was able to reduce my dose. Summer was always the best time for that, as I didn't have to work or if I had to, it was only for couple of weeks here and there. It went well till my dose was about 1/10th about the original. After that everything became difficult. Of course it was autumn again and I again lost my voice, now permanently. I can speak, but not much and not loud. I had never had panic attacks but I came very close, or so I felt. After quitting chlordiazepoxide and amitriptyline I started amitriptyline again. I thought it will help me over some new courses I had to teach. It kind of helped but my body demanded it more and more and it was obvious (for me) that now my body feels (or brain) that it's getting it again. I had really hard time not making my dose ever-growing. It stopped in 25 mgs and now I have tapered it back to about 17 mgs. It has been harder than anything during my first 19 months and I would never recommend to anybody in any case to take another medicine to help you through withdrawal. That's my experience, which are quite unique, I know.

 

I haven't had the slightest feeling that after tapering chlordiazepoxide (= Librium) I would have accomplished something. I'm in the middle of tapering as long as there is anything to taper. I have even become doubtful about my taper, as I have had my voice problems for 10 moths now. A couple of times for some days I have had my normal voice, even then it hasn't been durable. I have been able to rest but it doesn't seem to help.

 

Tapering amitriptyline goes very slowly. I have calculated that it would be over in March maybe. For a while I almost lost my motivation, but now I feel motivated again. I want to see what is there. I'm quite sure that in tapering these meds act very similarly, especially in the end of the taper and after taper, and it doesn't matter which med you're on. I can't prove this.

 

I also think that it's never a good thing to switch from one med to another (but it's necessary if somebody has short acting benzos). I think I was one of the happier benzo users because I didn't feel shitty during my time using the med. Later I have wondered if I should ever have tapered or not. I guess it depends on the outcome. But now I have been much worse than I ever was during my 15 year use. I don't mind physical unpleasantness, but losing my voice and becoming sensitive to chemicals and many odors has made my life harder. Also reacting to light is not normal and I have no sign it will get better. It just started and boom.

 

I think I made a mistake when I had only three months to go that I pressed too hard and in poor circumstances. I should have known that the end is the most difficult, also the time that comes right after that. I had a relationship in crisis then and this crisis I would not have needed then. It was an impossible situation. I also should have restricted my working - that is, take time out -, but I had no way to know. I felt really good a year ago, now it's a vague memory.

 

I have no way of knowing how much of this shitty feeling is still because of chlordiazepoxide. It's impossible to know. It might be that for me amitriptyline is harder or that whatever is the last one is the hardest.

 

This is not so happy experience, but it's real. I don't know if it matters how big your dose is or is it more important how long you've been on it. Or if you're feeling bad already in the start or not (I was not). Many people here have written that in the beginning you can reduce bigger amounts and faster. Later it might become harder and even a very careful taper might not prevent sxs from coming. I'm quite puzzled that it has been so hard, because I came very close to the end with only some hardship but not permanent damage and then I didn't succeed. There are others here who have felt it easier when they have come towards the end.

I started at 150 then got down as low as 90 but anxiety was so horrific updosed to 100 felt suicidal dropped to 95 made it to 93 then ended up in the psych ward and they reinstated me to 95 then was put on doxepin for my depression and anxiety been on this med over 7 months now and know Im in tolerance or paradoxial effects cant switch over to anything cause im allergic to the other benzos so thats why Im on the Librium feel stick. Have ptsd, Gad, and depression before I ever syarted benzos have had tinnitus, crying spells, muscle twitching jetking, nightmeres etc. my only wish is that i tapered off this med sooner. Now it seems impossible.  Anyone out there with success storys coming off Librium who where rxd for anxiety? Ty mo2

Oscar are you there?

 

Now im back up to 100 again cause of move downsouth. I too am starting to have vocal problems, ive reinstated/updosed 4-5 times now is there a chance for me at this point i can no longer taper by 5 mgs the tolerance hits quicker I wake up feeling good then most of the day terrible and tend to settle in the evening. Going to have to switch drs now and am so worried they will cold turkey me. This has been one hell of a ride. In the first drops this seemed doable but in so kindled now that even the expensive benzo wise drs are like if you cant drop by 5 mg Ivcant help you. That was discouraging.  I really need help guys im not nearly as ok now as i was in june orceven march when the first drop started.  Need more feed back please! Ty Mo2

 

 

Down to almost 7 mgs from 30 mgs.

 

It has taken me 38 months to reach this dose.

 

A brief history of my taper:

 

I cut 5 mg as a head start initially, big mistake, I was fine for 2 weeks and then all Hell broke loose. Woke at 4 am with soaked bed sheets, massive migraine and looping song in my head, I felt paranoid and pretty much like I had suffered a stroke, I could barely even talk let alone function.

 

I reinstated 2 days later, 3 days after that I started to feel normal again, a few more days and I was right as rain.

 

It was then that I knew getting off this stuff was going to be a huge challenge.

 

I started tapering daily a month or two later and pretty much straight away I had problems, I won't get into it all but it was very hard in the first year, basically I made the mistake of never using holds, instead I just adjusted my cuts, when I hit 10 mgs I got slammed big time, I had suffered a lot on the way down but when my taper caught up with me it felt like CT, it was terrifying.

 

Since that time I made a dose correction and held for about 6 weeks, all came right but I was in poor shape after that, I lost a lot of weight, ever since that time I have been tapering very, very slowly and I am now almost at 7 mgs.

 

Librium is supposed to be one of the "milder" benzo's, quite why my taper has been so difficult I do not know, I suspect it was the amount of time I was on it, as much as I am proud to have got this far and feel as if my mind is coming back now somewhat, I still have mixed feelings about doing this, in many ways I wish I had never started this taper... but I am here now and after over 3 years, it would be foolish to throw in the towel now, yet that said, I am rather discouraged by how many seem to feel at the truly lower doses, often I think tapering as slow as I am is a waste of time, this is a very cruel process and yet I cannot taper faster, not in a home environment anyway but I swear this is going to land me in hospital one day... I just try and do my best to get lower without going into acute, I have almost given up when I will be free and I am even thinking of staying at 5 mgs when I get there for a much needed break...

 

I am not sure if I buy into the healing as we taper slowly, sure, I think a certain amount of healing happens, in a way I have nothing to lose really as I would be protracted and in a bad way if I went faster... it's a case of go super slow and be miserable sometimes or go faster and be miserable all the time... if I were miserable all the time I would more than likely jump prematurely and be ill for a ridiculously long time... I am trying to shorten the post recovery time by doing this as I taper, the ones that tapered to zero do seem to fair better but I will never know if going this slow was worth it... sometimes I wish I had just pushed on and got it over with although chances are I would have landed in hospital.

 

I think I will have a better idea on my healing when I reach 5 mgs Librium which is equivalent to 2 mgs Valium, I will have tapered for 60 months by that point and I will more than likely stay there for awhile... if tapering for 5 years does not put a dent in this then I can't honestly say this was worth it as I will still have 5 mgs to go and still no guarantee of a smooth landing... it's all become a bit ridiculous really... but that said, I have minimal symptoms much of the time and for a long term user that is saying something but at the same time, I have had a long and awkward withdrawal also but much of that was due to lack of holds... I think it is why many find the lower doses even harder because they have sensitized themselves from earlier faster tapering, that is my view anyway.

 

I get that the true healing cannot actually happen until off but I don't honestly think tapering for years and then getting a bum deal at zero is very encouraging... yet I cannot possibly think that one could taper for 5 years and wind up protracted, even CT cases from high doses heal within that time frame... I am trying to mirror the 5-6 year time frame as I don't feel I can taper any faster anyway... yet that leaves me with 2-3 more years at this before I am even free... yet as I say, in 2 years when I reach 5 mgs I should have a pretty good feel for what 5 years of tapering has achieved... The GOOD news is I have improved year on year and it feels as if I have some sort of a functioning nervous system now and I also feel I have my mind back to a much greater degree, therefore the next 6 month, year and beyond should theoretically see me doing pretty well...

 

It just does not make sense to me that someone could taper for that amount of time to a very low dose and still wind up protracted... that just would not make sense to me, fast tapering from 5 mgs of Librium after a very lengthy taper should theoretically work also but I highly doubt I will do that although I most certainly will make bigger cuts to get this done if I am still feeling the bad stuff by 5 mgs,,, that will indicate to me that only being off will end this and yet I am still hopeful that the super slow method will bring back some wellness enough to warrant staying slow to zero, either way, I think my own recovery will be within months once off as opposed to years, otherwise there would be no point to tapering for so long, obviously jumping at the lowest dose possible is theoretically better but maybe Ashton is right when she says to not string out the last 2 mgs... yet like many of us on here that know what withdrawal can be like, it is little wonder we taper as slow and low as we do...

 

I won't ever know if my efforts to get there will have been right, I don't plan to try the alternative but I sure as heck wish this were done but the time does pass and we do get lower in dose and eventually the day will come when this is done... it's pretty much logic that anyone that slides off these drugs at pretty much zero will have a better chance at a faster recovery than those that tapered fast.

I wish I was you Oscar unfortunately my body becomes tolerant rather quickly each time Ive up dosed. Swear today was feeling akasia pacing back and fourth mind going in circles. I'm so glad you jumped on Im hoping you have a great next couple of years, for me this just keeps getting worse and worse and no one seems to know what to do for me being on such high doses for such a long time has effected my memory, my kidneys hurt, I cry a lot, worry if I'll be around to see my babies grow up. I feel like if I don't get to a lower dose soon my tine will be limited as this has effected me financially, physically and emotionally. Im so mad at the doctor that got me into this mess and im mad at myself for not sticking with the first taper to at least get down to a reasonable dose.  I only updosed a week ago and am having eye twitching, gi problems, crying etc. we have had to move in with my inlaws who I do not think grasp the severity of the situation.  My biggest fear is seizures. Being left alone, since I don't drive the only major difference I see is Ive been on a way high dose for too long and no hospitals out here will take me to try to get me lower in dose. At least up north they were going to hospitalize me for a brief period to get the ball rolling. Down here I have my in-laws but only for certain hours the only time im not in hell is when I updose but i can feel my muscles twitching now.  Hate librium so much hope to see a way out before my body gives out I lost 90 lbs so now that Ive updosed Im trying to eat as much as I can while I still can!

 

You need to taper at a really slow rate within what your body can handle... although for now I would say it may be a good idea to just get stable as possible although I hate to say this but my taper started off rough also... it gets better but it takes a long time. If you get stable and get a taper going that you can manage, it would at least be a start.

Thank you oscar those are encouraging words. How slow is your taper if you dont mind explaining how you do it/ did it.  Are you able to get less than 5 mg capsules in the Uk? I have some compounded 1 mg capsules from compounding pharmacy. Ty Mo2

Hi Mo2, Have you ever tried a liquid daily taper like Oscar is doing?  Some people have trouble with cut and hold, but do fine with daily taper.  Not sure why, but I know it happens a lot.

I am one of those titrators. People here often buy a 100 mls cylinder but I would recommend a 50 mls. That is easier to pack, if you travel.

 

I have done Librium already (mine was a combo-pill, as I always explain; I still have about 15 mgs of amitriptyline to taper off). I titrated back then and do it now as well. I used to crush the pills, but now I have noticed with amitriptyline, that if I let them soak in the water and then shake the bottle a few times, that will do as well.

 

For example (for you, Mo2): 500 mls water (half a litre), 500 mgs of Librium in, shake well. Put in the fridge and there it is, ready to use (always shake or turn up side down a couple of times). Your dose 100 mgs would be 100 mls of that liquid. When you start titrating, you take one cylinder full, the other up to 49 mls. Thus you would have cut 1 mg. - For me this has been an accurate way to cut small amounts. Nobody can say for sure, but I think I feel the cuts very clearly. - This is just an example, you can make your cut the size you want to (1/2 mg, 2 mgs etc.).

No I have t done liquid titration. I wAs reading last night on the hills detox center that people will often crush there pills And put them in liquid to get get higher as it hits the bloodstream faster. Probably why my previous doc wouldn't let me go that route, that and my pills come in capsules that I have yet to be able to pull apart.    im fairly sure Ive already

Hit tolerance At this dose its only been a week and Im waiting to take my first dose at 9. I take 25 ar 9am, 2pm, 7 pm and 11 pm owith 35 mg doxepin at 11 and 5 mg melatonin.  I wonder if the doxepin has effected any of this I was so depressed they put me on 50 at the mh upnorth but my hair stArted falling out and I was puking came home tried dropping it to 25 had migraines so updosed the doxepin to 35 migrAines went awAy. Cannot tell if its helped my depression or not cause I cry a lot more now than I used to but It helps me eat and I needed something to treat my depression and Ssris dont work for me. I used to take mirtazapine back when I wAs on lorAzepam before having my 2nd kid it helped with my depression but made my anxiety worse, i was one of the people that it made me more anxious less than 1% but tapered myself off thT on my own when it stopped working maybe i did it too fast and thats whAt caused the major anxiety of what started this whole mess back in Nov.  Who knows?

Hi Mo2, Have you ever tried a liquid daily taper like Oscar is doing?  Some people have trouble with cut and hold, but do fine with daily taper.  Not sure why, but I know it happens a lot.

How would I do this, sorry it just seems so complicated to me. I know u are the titration expert how many days would i do it i take 25 mgs 4 x a day.

It's a lot easier than you think.  Anyone and everyone can do this.  We can help you get started and once you know what to do you just do it again the next day.  EZPZ.  All you need is a 1ml and a 10ml syringe and a few jars.

If you're tapering I don't think you get high from the liquid, especially if it's long half-life benzodiazepine like Valium.That shouldn't be a problem.

HI to all in Librium taper:

  So glad to have found this thread. I hope others will find it. I just took my last Ativan 8 days ago after 6 or 7 years every day use. I am on 35 Libr now after crossing quickly. The first 2/3 of it done at once and seemd OK. This last week has been foggy anxious and screwed up though. My mornings are hell and then I negotiate with myself through the day to get things done, excercise, etc feeling slightly better as the day goes by, fairly decent by evening. Love to hear peoples experiences on Librium and how to get by the "denomination" problem. I will check in when I have more to say. 

DD

QUESTION TO ALL THOSE ON LIBRIUM TAPERS

 

I came here to get some information on my taper - my doctors are using librium which I hear is fairly successful, and my taper has been going on for a significant period, I am now near the end. However, I have taken some extra drugs on top of my normal dosage, and I am wondering how this will affect my taper. I am so near the end, and am terrified that I may have ruined it entirely. I would like some advice or information on what may or may not happen.

 

Before I began my taper I was taking Klonopin, roughly 3-6 mg a day, and occasionally etizolam, meclonazolam or clonitrazolam (the last three I mentioned are designer benzos that I acquire through illegal means.

 

Even though I am 2-4 weeks away from finishing my taper, has taking some extra benzos ruined it? I will refrain from doing it again. I am staying away from suppliers and old friends.

 

The reason I am asking is this:

*I am going in to the end of my taper. I take 2 Librium tablets, each 10 milligrams, once in the morning, and once in the evening. (Librium has a half-life of 5–30 hours, it's active metabolite Desmethyldiazepam has a half life of 36-200 hours, and other active metabolites include Oxazepam.) I am only taking the 20mg for the next 4 days, as per usual (I've been taking this dose about 15 days now), and then lowering to 10mg for the next period, and then going down about a quarter of that dose.) - Normal tapering procedure from what I understand.

 

*I took some Etizolam (Half-life of roughly 6 hours) - 3mg on top of my very small Librium dose - 3 days in a row.

 

*The reason I am concerned about ruining my taper is when you look at the dosage of Etizolam I have taken (even though I am keeping in mind it's considerably shorter half-life), 1mg of Etizolam is roughly equivalent to 1mg of Clonazepam, making the extra dose I took on top of my normal dose equivalent to !!150!! milligrams of librium.

 

*To sum up and pose my final question: As I'm nearing the end of my taper and only on 20mg of librium per day, and shortly I'll be going down to 10mg per day, has taking the equivalent of 150mg of librium (another benzo, much shorter half-life) going to affect my taper very much?

 

I am concerned because before I was put on the taper, I was losing so much sleep I felt insane, unstable and even suicidal sometimes. I thought many times of ending my life. I am hoping that your answers will help me a bit. Also: should I just continue with my taper, or go back to my doctor and tell him that I took some extra benzos some days and see if he will change my taper schedule? They've been quite lenient so far, but I feel they're nearing the end of their patience with me.

 

Thanks in advance guys,

Sincerely,

Mr Poly-Drug. Tired of being a user and an abuser.

I think any benzo can greatly disturb your taper. It doesn't have to, but it could. What I have read here, all benzos are very much alike. I think if you take those drugs you could as easily have taken more Librium. That's how I'd put it. But how it will affect your taper that you've taken extra doses, that I can't know.

 

On the other hand, I don't know for how long you have used benzos altogether. Your taper seems very fast to me. You could always slow down, to be sure that you're adapting to the low doses before you jump altogether.

I can't take Valium. I'm considering crossing over from Xanax to Librium.  Has anyone done this and how did it go?

 

Thanks!

When first tapering from librium it was 10 mgs every two weeks...that was from 150mg. Once down to 60 or 50 mgs was told by the pharmascist that it could only be cut by 5 mg every two weeks.the last 20..were done even slower.

Hi Mo2, Have you ever tried a liquid daily taper like Oscar is doing?  Some people have trouble with cut and hold, but do fine with daily taper.  Not sure why, but I know it happens a lot.

How would I do this, sorry it just seems so complicated to me. I know u are the titration expert how many days would i do it i take 25 mgs 4 x a day.

 

Go over to the Daily Micro-tapering Support Group and they will give you personal, step-by-step help to get you going. I have switched to micro-tapering and it is much smoother.

When first tapering from librium it was 10 mgs every two weeks...that was from 150mg. Once down to 60 or 50 mgs was told by the pharmascist that it could only be cut by 5 mg every two weeks.the last 20..were done even slower.

 

How expensive was the liquid suspension? Was it covered by insurance?

No the suspention was not expensive.  The pharmacist at walgreens made it for me.  Using syrespend.  The formula is in the walgreens computer so other pharmacists in the walgreens could make it.  Just use some 1ml oral syring...they usally have them behind the counter.  The suspenion is good for 2 weeks...keep it in fridge. It was nice not having to mix every day.

No the suspention was not expensive.  The pharmacist at walgreens made it for me.  Using syrespend.  The formula is in the walgreens computer so other pharmacists in the walgreens could make it.  Just use some 1ml oral syring...they usally have them behind the counter.  The suspenion is good for 2 weeks...keep it in fridge. It was nice not having to mix every day.

 

What time frames did you have between cuts? You can see mine in my sig. I am kind of scared of the big drops right now. How did you know you didn't want to just cut 5mg and hold and seek another method? Did it get easier or harder or was it stable?

Thx

DD