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New exposure for benzo's


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Pardner1, thanks so much for the link to this article! I think older people (and I'm one of them, in my early 60s) have been taught at an early age to respect doctors and to do what they say without asking questions. My mother was given a number of pills and just faithfully took them each day, though she wasn't on a benzo drug but was put on Zoloft to supposedly help with her dementia. I was watching The Doctors yesterday, and it was said that one in five doctors is on a controlled substance, which is pretty scary and says a lot about our pill-infested culture here in the U.S. The one thing that might help control the amount of pills one is prescribed is to have more EMR (electronic medical records) in all offices and hospitals so that doctors can get a rundown of what pills the patient has taken and is currently taking. But far too many places don't have them, so doctors keep prescribing without knowing the true drug history of the patient. 
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The problem is, as soon as you mention "abuse" people tune out. I know this was mainly about opiates and I'm sure that's a whole different animal altogether, but as long as the general public believes that the problems with prescription drugs stem from misuse they will continue to think that it can't ever happen to them and nothing will change.

 

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So true FG.  My dad will tell me that he takes it just as the doctor prescribed.  When I bring it up he says that she is such a nice lady and really cares about him.  I'm sure the doc cares but she if F'n clueless. She gave him xanax for sleep, an ssri for anxiety, and pain meds for pain.  i don't know about the pain meds and I just don't trust any doc giving out the benzos or SSRI's.   
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This is so helpful that there is more talk and awareness about these meds..I am 61..Also was given ativan for menopausal insomnia/anxiety/moods..was never told when enuf was enuf until tolerance w/ds 8 months ago. Now tapering before (hope not too late) any more cns damage. Want to heal....

Yhanks for the post, I missd the show, but watched the video..Thanks

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[7a...]
The problem is, as soon as you mention "abuse" people tune out. I know this was mainly about opiates and I'm sure that's a whole different animal altogether, but as long as the general public believes that the problems with prescription drugs stem from misuse they will continue to think that it can't ever happen to them and nothing will change.

 

Hey, FG, I think you're right about that. The doctor who was interviewed in the video said there needs to be a "shift in consciousness" in order to change the way things are going.

 

Part of that shift is going to have to be in how the general public perceives the problem. the doctors aren't going to stop prescribing what people want in the few minutes they have to see a patient. And god knows Big Pharma isn't going to stop make money.

 

So we need to have this shift in consciousness so that people view these drugs as being dangerous - and yes, they have to change their view on what addiction is. How this shift will play out. . .I dunno.

 

 

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So we need to have this shift in consciousness so that people view these drugs as being dangerous - and yes, they have to change their view on what addiction is. How this shift will play out. . .I dunno.

 

As long as this is seen as a problem of addiction and misuse nothing will ever change because the doctors and the patients will continue to believe that as long as the patient isn't escalating their dose then there can't be a problem.

 

When I was first prescribed clonazepam I was peripherally aware that these drugs can cause problems. I even asked my doctor about the potential for addiction, and her response was "There can be, but I am not worried about that with you".

 

Now that I know that there is a HUGE difference between addiction and dependence I realize that both of us were completely clueless. She thought that nothing bad could happen as long as I didn't show up strung out like a back alley crack user, and I thought I would be fine as long as I took the drugs as prescribed. I actually took much LESS than I was prescribed because I mistakenly thought that as long as I kept my dosage low I couldn't get "hooked". That goes to show how clueless I was and how important it is for this to be understood for what it really is for most people.

 

This problems needs to be acknowledged and understood at a base level. As long as the distinction isn't made between addiction and physical dependence this problem will never go away. That's why it irritates me to hear a benzo wd sufferer say that there is no difference between addiction and dependence. There absolutely is, that's why they have separate medical terms and separate definitions and they absolutely need to be recognized as distinct and treated differently. Some folks who had addiction issues with these drugs seem to take it as an insult, as if someone who says they were "dependent, not addicted" thinks that they are better than those who did misuse these drugs, but that's not the reason why making a distinction is so important. It is important because in order for doctor to recognize this as a problem and to treat it properly, they have to understand that addiction can happen along with physiological dependence, but they are two very different things. 

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[7a...]
Some folks who had addiction issues with these drugs seem to take it as an insult, as if someone who says they were "dependent, not addicted" thinks that they are better than those who did misuse these drugs, but that's not the reason why making a distinction is so important. It is important because in order for doctor to recognize this as a problem and to treat it properly, they have to understand that addiction can happen along with physiological dependence, but they are two very different things. 

 

Hey, FG. My brain is in cog fog, so I'm having to rely on Google to remind me of stuff. . . .

 

Here's an explanation from the DSM V (which was written by the Big Pharma backed American Psychiatric Association) at http://www.dsm5.org/Documents/Substance%20Use%20Disorder%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

 

"In DSM-IV, the distinction between abuse and dependence was based on the concept of abuse as a

mild or early phase and dependence as the more severe manifestation. In practice, the abuse criteria

were sometimes quite severe. The revised substance use disorder, a single diagnosis, will better match

the symptoms that patients experience.

Additionally, the diagnosis of dependence caused much confusion. Most people link dependence with

“addiction” when in fact dependence can be a normal body response to a substance. "

 

So, basically the DSM changed the definition slightly. The DSM 5 has been criticized (and rightly so) because it's huge and has basically pathologized everything humans do or think. So, if the definition can be this fluid, perhaps it will change.

 

Like you, I was told that I wasn't one to get addicted. Even though I was diagnosed bipolar, I'd never had a substance abuse problem. Well. . . .I didn't know about tolerance withdrawal.

 

Maybe if tolerance withdrawal gets into the pdoc's diagnostic bible, pdoc's will learn something!

 

I dunno. . . .Just wish I'd known what I was getting into for the long haul. I could have been more prepared. Not spent so much on college, food, etc. and saved up for this!!!!

 

Sorry, it's just frustrating.  :(

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As long as this is seen as a problem of addiction and misuse nothing will ever change because the doctors and the patients will continue to believe that as long as the patient isn't escalating their dose then there can't be a problem.

 

 

I personally believe that most doctors do know the distinction between dependence and addiction.  I also believe it's convenient for them to use abuse of benzodiazepines as an escape for their prescribing practises.  It provides them an out whenever anyone developes problems with benzos and they use it as an excuse.  It's not the drug or the way they prescribe them, it's a problem with the person taking them.  They can claim no responsibility.  Clever, but it's B.S.

 

 

She thought that nothing bad could happen as long as I didn't show up strung out like a back alley crack user,

 

 

I think this description of many benzo addicts does a lot of damage and silences addicts like myself who in no way was anything like a "back alley crack user".  I would venture a guess that there are many benzo users who consider themselves addicts.  It's the nature of the drug, tolerance, interdose withdrawals and all that....chasing these common benzo attributes with another dose equalling abuse, and encouraged to do so, in my case by my doctor but you'll never see that in his notes.  The fact is I am far more like everybody else on this site, dependent or otherwise than any other common back yard addict.  Still, I was an addict.  And I want to add that I think recovery from benzos is pretty much the same whether an addict or simply dependent.  It has been for me.  Honestly, I can't speak for anyone else, nor do I have statitistics because they don't exist.  I just wish you would quit comparing me to a back alley crack addict, because I wasn't. 

 

 

I am far more like you FloridaGuy and yet I was an addict.  Our paths and withdrawals have been different, but our stories are similar.  Dependent or otherwise.

 

And every time I see your comparison of me to a back alley addict I am silenced.  Because you are not my fight.

 

I'm done with this topic.

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I just wish you would quit comparing me to a back alley crack addict, because I wasn't. 

 

 

I am far more like you FloridaGuy and yet I was an addict.  Our paths and withdrawals have been different, but our stories are similar.  Dependent or otherwise.

 

And every time I see your comparison of me to a back alley addict I am silenced.  Because you are not my fight.

 

I'm done with this topic.

 

I apologize if I offended you or anyone else but I can assure you that wasn't my intention, and this only serves to illustrate my point that when this subject comes up it tends to be taken entirely the wrong way.

 

I wasn't saying that people who are addicted to benzos are back alley crack addicts. I will have to reread what I wrote but I don't even know how you interpreted it as that.

 

I was saying that if we perpetuate the idea that addiction and dependence are the same, doctors will continue to prescribe these drugs inappropriately, doctors will continue to look for signs of addiction at the expense of looking for signs of dependence, and more and more unfortunate souls will end up in the same position as many of us who didn't know what to look for ourselves and ended up in this nightmare despite everyone's best intentions.

 

I do not judge anyone who took benzos inappropriately. We are all in the same boat here. The distinction matters for the purposes of recognizing the true cause of the problem and treating it appropriately.

 

 

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"In DSM-IV, the distinction between abuse and dependence was based on the concept of abuse as a

mild or early phase and dependence as the more severe manifestation. In practice, the abuse criteria

were sometimes quite severe. The revised substance use disorder, a single diagnosis, will better match

the symptoms that patients experience.

Additionally, the diagnosis of dependence caused much confusion. Most people link dependence with

“addiction” when in fact dependence can be a normal body response to a substance. "

 

So, basically the DSM changed the definition slightly. The DSM 5 has been criticized (and rightly so) because it's huge and has basically pathologized everything humans do or think. So, if the definition can be this fluid, perhaps it will change.

 

I'm not really sure what to make of this. It sounds like they are making a clear distinction between addiction and dependence but they want to link abuse with dependence and call it "substance use disorder"?

 

If that is the case it is a step in the WRONG direction. Many of us are all too familiar with the fact that you can most certainly develop dependence without abusing these drugs.

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"In DSM-IV, the distinction between abuse and dependence was based on the concept of abuse as a

mild or early phase and dependence as the more severe manifestation. In practice, the abuse criteria

were sometimes quite severe. The revised substance use disorder, a single diagnosis, will better match

the symptoms that patients experience.

Additionally, the diagnosis of dependence caused much confusion. Most people link dependence with

“addiction” when in fact dependence can be a normal body response to a substance. "

 

So, basically the DSM changed the definition slightly. The DSM 5 has been criticized (and rightly so) because it's huge and has basically pathologized everything humans do or think. So, if the definition can be this fluid, perhaps it will change.

 

I'm not really sure what to make of this. It sounds like they are making a clear distinction between addiction and dependence but they want to link abuse with dependence and call it "substance use disorder"?

 

If that is the case it is a step in the WRONG direction. Many of us are all too familiar with the fact that you can most certainly develop dependence without abusing these drugs.

 

FG-don't you see. This small change is their out. It will next morph into substance abuse disorder and the drs will have no culpability at all. The machine rolls on.  >:(

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[7a...]

Yeah, the DSM-5 is definitely a step in the wrong direction for sooo many reasons.

 

It puts grief in their as a mental illness (if you are sad for more than 2 weeks when a loved one dies, you have a chemical imbalance).

 

If you are concerned about your health for more than 6 months (not taken into context WHY), you have somatic disorder (needs to be medicated). This, BTW, means everyone with cancer will have a mental disorder.

 

Even some psychiatrists are boycotting it:

http://www.madinamerica.com/2013/12/dsm-5-boycott-enters-2nd-phase-primer-dsm-diagnosis-campaign/

 

What a mess!

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I have also been in contact with the local director of the county health department.  After a conversation about benzo's he did some investigation on the problem and there is a panel now being established to address the need for education on benzo's for the Medical community and the general public.

 

Pardner

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FG-don't you see. This small change is their out. It will next morph into substance abuse disorder and the drs will have no culpability at all. The machine rolls on.  >:(

 

That's kind of what it sounded like to me as well.

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[7a...]
I have also been in contact with the local director of the county health department.  After a conversation about benzo's he did some investigation on the problem and there is a panel now being established to address the need for education on benzo's for the Medical community and the general public.

 

Pardner1, I hadn't thought about doing that. That takes guts. How did you contact him? I live in a large city, so contacting anyone is hard. . . I'd be interested in knowing more. Sounds like you've got advocacy on your mind. I used to volunteer with NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) until they started taking too much money from drug companies and advocated forced drugging for people with the so-called "chemical imbalance." Then I left them. Not for me.

 

I'd like to get involved in a group of psychiatric survivors (like Mad in America - http://www.madinamerica.com/) but I'm not sure if there's a group anywhere around here. And I need to get rid of my cog fog first . . . .

 

It's hard to know who you can trust.

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The local director for public health was an acquaintance of mine that was willing to meet with me.  I went in with the Ashton Manual, and links to BB and also info from Bliss Johns and from Dr. Jennifer Leigh's site.  The process is slow but there is now a county panel being started to discuss how to educate the medical community, the public and provide educated support for former and current benzo users. 

I spoke at a public health forum where by chance there was a person who was working on their masters in counseling and spoke up about her horrible experience with Xanax withdrawal.  That also helped to move this forward. 

 

Moving a mountain one pebble at a time.

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[7a...]
The local director for public health was an acquaintance of mine that was willing to meet with me.  I went in with the Ashton Manual, and links to BB and also info from Bliss Johns and from Dr. Jennifer Leigh's site.  The process is slow but there is now a county panel being started to discuss how to educate the medical community, the public and provide educated support for former and current benzo users.

I spoke at a public health forum where by chance there was a person who was working on their masters in counseling and spoke up about her horrible experience with Xanax withdrawal.  That also helped to move this forward.

 

Moving a mountain one pebble at a time.

 

Hey, pardner, good to hear you're out there fighting the good fight. I hope to be well enough to do that, too. I worry about speaking up and being able to keep my job, though. Too many people think of addiction not as a medical problem (which it is for everybody), but tolerance withdrawal and accidental addiction are just completely misunderstood.  :-\

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