Singer from Korn took 3 years to recover from benzo's

Really? There are nurses and doctors posting? I wasn't aware. It would be interesting to hear their perspectives.

mainly ex nurses and ex doctors. eastcoast62 was a long time nurse. spartacus and needsomehelp are doctors.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the info.

mainly ex nurses and ex doctors. eastcoast62 was a long time nurse. spartacus and needsomehelp are doctors.

 

bobo, i wonder what happened to spartacus, she hasn't been here since september,

i learned so much from her, awesome.

There may be a handful of nurses, but I HIGHLY doubt physicians use benzos. I don't have any data but this is my strong opinion. Celebrities- sure.  But a physician will not touch any benzo or z drug beyond VERY prn use. This is my hypothesis.

Yes she is very smart. I hope she got better and moved on.

Prufrock

I know for a fact there are at least two physicians on here that used them and went through serious wd. plus several posters had doctors who were ex users. Doctors are notorious for addiction problems.we even have legislation in my state about mandatory drug testing for docs.

 

As I wrote spartacus and needsomehelp are both doctors. I know there are more on the site but dont remember the names. Causingpain and timeforachange both had ex benzo using addictionologists at some point.

 

Doctors are just people like the rest of us.

 

 

But you named only two. I don't doubt that there is a certain subset of physicians but I will argue that it is very small.  I will even give you 100 physicians (you gave me 2 so far ... let's say you have 100), you still haven't even reached 0.25%. I will even take it a step further and argue that the percentage of psychiatrists is even smaller! I'm not sure docs are "notorious" for addiction. Addiction affects everyone regardless of profession but no way do docs use benzos proportianate to the rest of the population. No way.

Really you are just making up a theory. I gave you two off the top of my head who post here. I dont track it.Besides you have a constant habit of changing your posts. Your initial post said docs dont use benzos. Which of course was ridiculously wrong. I was able to give examples easily. And those are just the ones that admit it. I actually gave you four.

 

Read about scott t eitelbaum and dr reg peart.

 

I repeat doctors are just people like the rest of us. Only a little more clueless. 

I think you are taking it too literally. Of course I did not mean there are 0 physicians who take or have taken benzos.  I think you know that.  I told you, you can give me 100. That is still a miniscule percentage.  Yes, it is just a theory. I wholeheartedly agree. I stated that I don't have any data. But I would hope that you have more than 4 data points to prove that benzo use is notorious amongst physicians.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/24/the-secret-world-of-drug-addict-doctors.html

 

I said addiction is notorious. Not necessarily benzos. Im not about to make a study of it. I know it is a problem. Just Google it.

 

Really, believe whatever you want. i dont care. I will point out that at least I have some examples. Your statement "no way" is pretty self assured for a guy with absolutely zero data.

 

 

Ok cool. Sure, you have 4 examples.  Not sure that proves your point though. I will repeat my theory based on no data-- benzo use is not common among the physician population, and even less so among psychiatrists. This is my unfounded theory which may be wrong but cant be proved wrong from 4 examples. I'm not sure if your point was contained in the link but it didnt work when I clicked it. Resend.

Try it again. It works for me. It basically says docs and nurses are addicted at basically the same rate at the general population.

 

I dont understand your rationale for your theory. Most of my doctors dont believe there is anything wrong with benzos so i dont think they would have any more problrm taking them than any other med. Maybe you deal with a more enlightened setof physicians.

There may be a handful of nurses, but I HIGHLY doubt physicians use benzos. I don't have any data but this is my strong opinion. Celebrities- sure.  But a physician will not touch any benzo or z drug beyond VERY prn use. This is my hypothesis.

 

Why would you think that physicians are any different from the rest of the population? They're not exempt from dependency and/or addiction at all, if anything they're at higher risk due to accessibility not to mention the extremely stressful and demanding nature of their profession.

 

I've known quite a few doctors on a personal level who use(d) and abused benzos and other prescription medications including narcotics.

Oh and let's not forget alcohol ...

 

You might try contacting the College of Physicians & Surgeons in your province or state, they may be able to provide you with statistics.

 

Chinook

 

Thanks, bobo, for pointing me towards a couple of BB members in the medical profession. Last night, I read eastcoast's Success Story, and I read many of spartacus's posts. Very interesting. As medical professionals, such people can have insights and knowledge that may be helpful to the rest of us.

 

In researching the topic of benzodiazepines last year, I came across an article that illuminated the reasons why certain doctors had prescribed the medication to their patients in a particular region of England. It gave me a new and deeper understanding of the situation.

Chinook,

 

I don't believe they are exempt from falling prey to addiction. Not at all. In certain specialties, particularly anesthesiology, it would not surprise me the addiction statistics are worse than the general population.

 

However, I am a firm believer that addiction and dependency are different. They MAY go hand in hand and often do, but I think they are different things. I think most of us (not all) are on this forum because we became dependent on benzos due to imperfect information which resulted in us being on benzos for longer than they are indicated. A physician, by definition, has an information advantage on these drugs so she will know better to stay away from more than prn use.  This will not be the case across the board. Of course there will be victims similar to others on this forum but it will be a small percentage.  This is just my pet theory.

 

But if you are talking about benzo addiction, then I completely agree with you that addiciton and its perverse allure and its consequences affects everyone regardless of profession, nationality, sex, etc. So theoretically if this were a "benzo addiction" forum then, yes, the proportion of docs would be just the same as any other.

 

But this forum is more than just a benzo addiction site. I think (not sure) that a huge proportion of us developed dependence problems during our use.  And I am saying that because docs are relatively more informed about the dangers of benzo use, they are less likely to use them more an on a prn basis. Bobo is trying to twist my statement by pointing to 4 examples- like I said, 4 data points is a tiny tiny percentage of users. He argues that he only keeps track of 4 so there must be so many more. I agree there will be more, but not that many on a percentage basis.  Maybe 100? 100/16,000 is a small percentage, no?

 

And if there are truly thousands of docs on BB, isn't it strange that they hardly speak up? I don't know what the reason is (maybe professional liability?) but it seems awfully strange that only 4 speak up.

 

If we're talking purely about addiction, even benzo addiction, then absolutely they are not exempt. But I think we would be hard pressed to find a significant population of physicians suffering from benzo dependency issues. This is just my pet theory on the basis that they are more informed. It very well may be wrong.  Let's see- maybe we'll have the large physician population respond. I'd be curious to hear about benzo use within their circles. Any physicians out there?

Oh good grief.  Where to begin.  I’ll just address a couple of your points because it seems you have your mind made up.  You have some sort of bizarre notion about doctors that they have a completely different experience than the rest of the world, and are not susceptible to the same weaknesses or misjudgments that the rest of us are.  Did you go to school with many pre-meds?  I went to school with a passle of them, including dating a few ladies who are now doctors.  IME there is nothing special about them, intellectually or judgement-wise. But let me just address a couple points.

Since now you are now splitting hairs and limiting your comment to so-called “dependence” (a distinction you never brought up before) let me address your point that doctors have so much knowledge about benzos that they would never get caught in the snare. Of course it is entirely possible for any lay-person to access pretty much the same information doctors have.  We just don’t because we are used to trusting our doctors.

First of all, that is a pretty horrible indictment of doctors – that they know how horrific these meds are but still prescribe them to patients even thought they would not take the meds themselves.  I suppose that is possible but I think what is far more likely is that doctors have no idea how horrible withdrawals are.  My impression from my own doctors and anecdotal stories from many posts on BB is that most doctors haven’t a clue about benzo withdrawal.  They have access but they just don’t investigate or believe in it.

 

Finally, let me address your statistical argument.  I never said there are thousands of doctors posting on here.  I thought you were some sort of statistician.  Please explain where you got this “thousands” number.  That’s ridiculous. 

I don’t know where you got the 16,000.  Is that the number of current members who regularly post?  Seems very high to me.  Most members here don’t post much, and even fewer people on here even mention their profession.  But let’s assume we a talking a population of 16,000. How many would be doctors?  What is the percentage of doctors in the general population?  I Googled it and the data I got indicate medical doctors represent .3% of the population (this includes research doctors who never see patients).  So that would be an expected number of 48 doctors posting here.  I named 4, plus let’s add ihope because I read a post last night indicating he/she went to med school  So that is around 10% of what would be expected, not a tiny, tiny percentage.  THat is without me even looking through all the posts.  I think if we were to limit it to the number of people who actually post regularly, and who actually identify their profession it would be much closer to the 48. And remember, doctors are likley more reluctant to respond or post on here and admit their profession because, try as Colin might, a lot of people around here don't relaly care much for doctors.

 

And most people will not read this post so your cute little "let's call out to the doctor posters" trick is absurd.  Why not write "will all the accountants, or court reporters, or physical education teachers" repond.  Really. What nonsense.  IS that how you performed statistical analysis in your former profession?  Write asking for responses on an obscure message board thread?  Are you aware of the response rate to polls in general?  For crying out loud, this thread has a total of 41 views. 

Sure, I went to school with pre-meds. About half of my extended family are physicians (don't have any psychiatrists in the fam though).

 

I'm not splitting hairs about dependence. It didn't come up earlier. In my opinion, the distinction is not splitting hairs. it's a big difference.

 

You are right-- most docs don't have a clue about how horrible withdrawals are.

 

16,000 was the total # of users on the forum (approximately). Not the # of members who regularly post. Some sort of a statistician? Not really. This is just my opinion. I'd be curious to hear from all the docs but I just don't think there are that many who experience w/d (not because of a bizarre notion that they experince the world differently).

 

I'm not sure I understand the point about calling out other professions. I think the other professions would respond on a proportionate basis. I really did not think so detailed about how many views the thread has- but sure, tell me where to post to call out doctors and I'll do it. Maybe you're right.

I'm not sure I understand the point about calling out other professions.

THe point is that if you are going to call out on doctors to respond to prove some point about doctors, why not other professions as well? If you call out accountants and get a much smaller response than wouldl be expected in the population does this prove that accountants are similarly predisposed to avoid benzo dependence?  This is my attempt to add some sort of control to a what is a pretty poorly designed experiment IMO. I am certain you are not likely to get a response anywhere equivalent to the proportion of any occupation in the general population.  Because a lot of people don't read every thread, very few resond period to anything.  What you call for is a completely unscientific method of analyzing this, and pretty worthless.  You might add nurses as well. 

 

Ok, sounds good. Thank you for the feedback.

HI Pru,

 

You wrote "I am saying that because docs are relatively more informed about the dangers of benzo use, they are less likely to use them more an (sic) on a prn basis."

 

And yet you also wrote "in certain specialties, particularly anaesthesiology, it would not surprise me the addiction statistics are worse than the general population."

 

Isn't that a contradiction?

 

You imply that because of their knowledge, doctors are not prone to using benzos yet you speculate that anaesthesiologists (who are actually more knowledgeable than any other medical professional) may be more susceptible to addiction/dependence.

 

Using your rationale, wouldn't you think anaesthesiologists would be LESS likely to dabble in benzos? They know more because anaesthesiology is a very exacting science.

 

Chinook

 

 

 

 

 

Chinook,

 

Nice with the [sic] -- I like the style. 

 

I see how that is a contradiction. 2 things:

 

1) Bo pointed out the difference b/w harmful use of benzos vs withdrawal symptoms. I don't think docs are intentionally prescribing benzos with knowledge of their harmful effects. But I think they have an information advantage in that they see some patients with horrible withdrawal stories, they are more cognizant of the "prn" fine print (which I should have read more closely), they are just familiar with meds more than the lay population in general. I mean, this is why we go to docs because of their training, no?

 

2) On the anesthesiology, I was making the distinction between addiction and dependence. Anesthesiologists are reputed for high rates of incidence with opiate abuse. They are fully aware of the dangers of opiate addiction. But this is precisely addiction. You continue to use/abuse despite negative consequences. No profession or race or ethnicity is exempt to the trap of addiction. But I just think dependece is different. I think an anesthesiologist is more likely to get addicted vs dependent on drugs she knows about.

 

Doctors are people too, I get that. In my opinion, they are people with more information on the medications they are prescribing. I mean, I would hope so at least.

 

Perhaps I'm wrong. I'm no statistician.

There may be a handful of nurses, but I HIGHLY doubt physicians use benzos. I don't have any data but this is my strong opinion. Celebrities- sure.  But a physician will not touch any benzo or z drug beyond VERY prn use. This is my hypothesis.

 

Hi Pru,

 

This is what I was referring to, I wasn't into debating the issue of dependency/addiction. There are other threads devoted to that.

 

When you made this statement I don't think you were making the distinction?

 

 

HI Pru,

 

You wrote "I am saying that because docs are relatively more informed about the dangers of benzo use, they are less likely to use them more an (sic) on a prn basis."

 

And yet you also wrote "in certain specialties, particularly anaesthesiology, it would not surprise me the addiction statistics are worse than the general population."

 

Isn't that a contradiction?

 

You imply that because of their knowledge, doctors are not prone to using benzos yet you speculate that anaesthesiologists (who are actually more knowledgeable than any other medical professional) may be more susceptible to addiction/dependence.

 

Using your rationale, wouldn't you think anaesthesiologists would be LESS likely to dabble in benzos? They know more because anaesthesiology is a very exacting science.

 

Chinook

 

when i was in jr high school my friends Mother was an Anethesiologist and she drank ALOT.

 

its a stressful job.

 

theyre only human.

 

when i was in jr high school my friends Mother was an Anethesiologist and she drank ALOT.

 

its a stressful job.

 

theyre only human.

 

Of course. Not surprising