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Are You Glad or Sorry You Updosed or Held?


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Not meaning to further any argument but to imply that anyone is "addicted to tapering" is just about the most ridiculous thing I have ever read on here, there is not a single person on this site that wishes to God  their taper was over...

I could be wrong, but I don't think that's what you meant to say.

I do think that some people are afraid to finally get off drugs. Whether for psychological reasons and/or fearing the unknown regarding possible w/d after jumping.

 

Mandala,

I remember a long time ago you said to me that I could jump from 4 mgs Valium equivalent and that I would be OK, yet upon reading how hellish your recovery has been from jumping at that very same dose, I am bloody glad I never made that decision. I read many of your posts and it is largely upon reading your experiences that actually do have me scared to quit this drug !!!!!!!!

 

I mean, if anyone read of your exhaustive lists of symptoms they would surely be nervous also, how many symptoms did you count at one point, I can't recall but I think it was 75 symptoms or something ridiculous...

 

I could list my symptoms but I don't think it would do me any good to analyze them to that degree let alone share them with others who would more than likely be horrified at all you have posted here and it is for that reason I think benzobuddies can be damaging... I have posted things also that I should not have but I have never gone to the lengths like you have, it's hardly surprising that people that come here end up full of fear. I don't even think it would be possible to count 75 symptoms, seriously.

 

 

Oscar,

 

I am replying to your post for two reasons. You have mislead people about the severity of my symptoms being a result of jumping from 4 mg of Valium. You have said things about me that are not true. 

 

This comment by you  "there is not a single person on this site that wishes to God their taper was over" I truly thought you made a mistake and you meant to say there is not a single person on this site who does NOT wish that their taper was over. That is the ONLY reason I replied. I truly thought you had made a mistake. Most people (not all) want to get off benzos.

 

The content of your recent response to me is not only insensitive, but it's VERY misleading to other BB members. For 26 months I have been polite to you and I have NEVER made any personal jabs when replying to your posts or to anyone for that matter. You are a master at avoiding the content of posts that you personally don't want to address, and also you are very skilled at replying to posts in a way that does not contain complete information. As a result it gives people the wrong impression.

 

More importantly, I NEVER told you that you could jump at 4 mg of Valium and I am extremely offended that you would say that. I have NEVER given direct taper advice to anyone on BB nor have I EVER suggested a specific dose to jump from. You really need to think a lot more about your responses to people before you make claims like that. It's just plain wrong.

 

You are NOT giving people the complete picture when you say that I jumped at 4 mg of Valium. So I am going to explain so other members are not mislead by the information you are providing.

 

Here is the important part that you left out when you tried to give people the impression that my symptoms and recovery time were a result of jumping from 4 mg of Valium.

 

In 6 years time, I c/t with my "drs guidance" Zopiclone twice, 3 mg of Xanax twice, and 3 mg of Klonopin once. During those 4 years I was also prescribed more than 29 different psych drugs b/c nobody knew I was in severe w/d and I also went c/t from all those drugs within about an 18 month period. After that I went c/t from 3 mg of K. 4 weeks later STILL not knowing what was going on I was in the psych ward. I was then given Lithium, Loxapine, and Zopiclone. I was already on Seroquel at that time and they increased my dose. I kept getting more sick. They sent me home. I was then given Xanax as a PRN and after taking one dose I went out of my mind. I thought it was the Seroquel making me so sick and I stopped the Seroquel c/t after taking it for 4 years. Then I was prescribed Valium at 10 mg and told after the first week to taper 1 mg a week until I was off. I did that and kept getting worse and worse. It was THEN and only then that I stopped Valium at 4 mg. I went to detox b/c I needed a safe place to stay until my mother could come be with me.

 

How arrogant of you to say that my list of my symptoms is ridiculous.

 

This is what you said about the list on my blog two years ago. Mandala, that was a really well documented list of what you had and what has improved, i am really very happy that you are healing, which you clearly are... it is just brilliant.

 

Well done for getting through all of that and may more healing happen in the coming weeks.

 

You have NO IDEA what I have gone through. I have 8 years post secondary education in lab medicine, and if it was not for my analytical mind and being able to finally figure out it was the drugs and not me I would still be on them, or I would be dead by now. When I was out of my mind in the hospital I asked for a pen and paper and manually calculated how long it took for Valium to reach steady state. It was only THEN that I realized the mistake my doctor had made by telling me to begin my taper after only taking Valium for 7 days. I thank God for the brain I was given. To be honest I can't believe that my brain still works after taking all those drugs for all those years. Miraculously it works better now than it ever has. It was ONLY b/c of approaching my recovery from a scientific point of view and tracking what symptoms came and went and being able to see progress that I am still alive. I have had people PM me and tell me that being able to see my progress with time has HELPED them and that is the ONLY reason I have continued to post updates of my symptoms. People ASKED me to do that. I am a very private person. I have been on this forum for 26 months and I have very few pages of content on my blog.

 

My "ridiculous" list of symptoms has helped more people on BB than you will ever know. Reading blogs such as mine might scare you now (apparently it did not scare you two years ago) but it has given a lot of people hope to continue on. I have received numerous PMs from people telling me that if I can heal from a chemical assault like that then they can heal too. When I was recovering I searched for the horror stories that led to healing b/c that's the situation I was in.

 

The unkind things you said to me today I may have expected from a member of the medical profession who had no interest or knowledge about benzo w/d and recovery, but not from a fellow BB member. Maybe when you get off benzos and heal you will be more compassionate.

 

 

 

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Have just skimmed the last few posts.    I think it's possible for some people like me to become 'institutionalised' in the benzo taper.    But for what this thread was about I would like to hear  more of what s/x people could not tolerate that made them updose....  and also what they put up with and kept tapering anyway? 

 

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This is not the first thread to have some heated discussions and here at BB we do welcome healthy debate.  Please remember to refrain from disparaging remarks, after all, they don't serve to support or encourage anyone.  Withdrawal will be different for each person and each person should receive respect for whatever plan or method they have chosen to adopt. 

 

As adults, people should be responsible for using the forum in a way that provides the support and encouragement they need.  Find the places here that provide that instead of complaining that some of the posts are negative and frightening. We need to remember that this forum is the only place that people can speak about symptoms that are by and large ignored or dismissed by some in the medical community. 

 

Be kind, be understanding and realize that sometimes things are said in withdrawal that are out of character or reactive.  We've all done this.

 

Thanks,

 

pianogirl

 

 

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Oscar,

 

You seem like you are feeling much better than many days ago. did you make any changes?

 

I made a second dose correction of 3 days, so in total I have reversed 5 days worth of cuts and held for a month and it seems to be working.

 

That is the thing with daily tapering, it is usually possible to remedy a problem should one arise.

 

 

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Mandala, I apologize, I did not mean to be insensitive to your suffering but yes, your posts 2 years ago scared the crap out of me as did some other posts on this site.

 

I am just glad I never jumped at any point, I have always tapered slow since 4 mgs and it is a major pain in the ass but I am not sick as a result of it and for that I am grateful... I hit some sticky patches sometimes but rarely can anyone be totally symptom free even when going slow, withdrawal is withdrawal at the end of the day, I just choose to try and spread my own suffering out thinly.

 

It seems to me that benzo illness is mainly a result of the withdrawal process being too rapid... it is what seems to cause the most suffering anyway.

 

I am glad you are starting to heal now but again, yes, your posts scared me a lot, maybe that helped me slow it down some though so I should be thankful in a way that you were as detailed as it made me realize how much worse this could be.

 

Sorry, I have been pretty grouchy today, it was not my intention to upset you.

 

 

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Oscar, I would like to suggest to you a couple of things. There is an Accentuate the Positive board here that might be a good place for you to go when you need positive thoughts.  On that board is a thread started by Beeper, a former admin, that is called "Conquer fear with Action" that I believe is so appropriate for people in the withdrawal process since it can be a fearful experience. I'll give you links to the board and to that particular thread:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?board=65.0

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=104119.0

 

Might I also suggest that you avoid visiting and posting on the Protracted Board. You are still tapering and not protracted, and may never be.  Why add more fuel to your fear by reading things that simply contribute to more angst.

 

pianogirl

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Oscar these are very good suggestions that Pianogirl has made and I hope you will take them to heart.

I agree that you should probably avoid visiting or posting on the protracted board. You are not protracted.

Presumably that board was created so that the protracted folks, like myself, would have somewhere to go where we can express our thoughts and feelings and share our experiences both good and bad with others and not have to worry about scaring newbies or being labeled "horror stories."

I understand the reasons that board was made accessible to everyone although I have not personally felt comfortable with it and wish they would go back to making it accessible by registration only.

You have posted there quite a lot and I must say the protracted members have been most kind and compassionate with you.

Well Oscar as you know I am four and a half years out. I am protracted and remain very symptomatic. I have my struggles and fears but I am hesitant to post about them because I don't want to be considered a "horror story."

I guess there's no pretty way of putting it but it both frustrates and upsets me that your wish to be shielded from the horror stories is apparently more important than my need to be heard, validated, and understood.

I know too many people who suffer in silence because they do not want to be called horror stories.

 

Chinook

 

 

 

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Oscar these are very good suggestions that Pianogirl has made and I hope you will take them to heart.

I agree that you should probably avoid visiting or posting on the protracted board. You are not protracted.

Presumably that board was created so that the protracted folks, like myself, would have somewhere to go where we can express our thoughts and feelings and share our experiences both good and bad with others and not have to worry about scaring newbies or being labeled "horror stories."

I understand the reasons that board was made accessible to everyone although I have not personally felt comfortable with it and wish they would go back to making it accessible by registration only.

You have posted there quite a lot and I must say the protracted members have been most kind and compassionate with you.

Well Oscar as you know I am four and a half years out. I am protracted and remain very symptomatic. I have my struggles and fears but I am hesitant to post about them because I don't want to be considered a "horror story."

I guess there's no pretty way of putting it but it both frustrates and upsets me that your wish to be shielded from the horror stories is apparently more important than my need to be heard, validated, and understood.

I know too many people who suffer in silence because they do not want to be called horror stories.

 

Chinook

 

Hi Chinook,

 

I feel the whole protracted deal and the fact I am tapering slow are pretty much the same thing, I have been at this taper 33.5 months now, it will soon be 3 years and I have so much further to go, you know, there are some people on this site that take a year to lose the last mg of Valium, I have just under 3  mgs to go, so when you look at the time frame this may take me, we are looking at 6 - 7 years total... which is, I believe, a pretty realistic recovery time frame for a long term user that is having a hard withdrawal, if that is not protracted then I sure as heck don't know what is, the fact I am on the drug still is not of much relevance really given that there is pretty much no therapeutic effect below a certain dose... as much as I hate to admit it to myself, I am highly likely to be symptomatic at least until 2 mg and probably 1 mg and maybe even until the very end although I hope and pray that my healing continues and that at some point this taper becomes somewhat easier but I know for a fact it will be hard at least for the next year if not two years... only then do I think there may be a chance that things start to improve, my baseline might me quite good but as soon as I taper that goes out the window, I cannot taper faster as my suffering would be too great, I may as well CT the rest if I were to do that, so it is either super slow for me with breaks or a rapid taper off, neither are that appealing to be honest.

I hate to be so negative but the chances of protracted for me are pretty high given my duration of use and the fact that my taper has been less than smooth and even if I did taper super slow to zero, the chances are it will take me a very, very long time, so, protracted or not, the fact remains that I have been suffering withdrawals for getting on for 3 years now and it looks highly likely I have 3-4 more years more to go, two of those years will most certainly be extremely hard to navigate and I can only hope the remainder is somewhat easier... so, you know, either on or off the drug, the time frame of being unable to live and function as a normal person is the same, I am unusual in the fact that I am tapering so slowly but I saw it as the lesser of two evils when in fact I do not see a huge difference in the overall time this is taking, so anyone here can say "you are unlikely to be protracted", well, I would argue that I pretty much am already but it is amazing how people cannot see that, it should not take 7 years to lose 12 mgs of Valium yet it seems to be the case for me...

Regarding horror stories, I am not talking of posts on the protracted board, I am talking of blogs that everyone can access but I digress, we all post of suffering, myself included but what angers me is when some individuals post only the bad in their progress logs, it paints a very bleak view of becoming benzo free and one member in particular actually admitted that life was pretty good and normal much of the time but to read their blog (which is accesible to everyone) read like horror novel, there was no mention of good days, better days, feeling good or feeling great, the content was negative from start to finish, day after day, week after week, month after month and I get it, we suffer, I know that but I know for a fact this person had many hours in the day that were good also and yet chose to never mention the actual "progress" at all, therefore leaving the reader to wonder where the heck the progress was being made...

I just think there are some people that obsess over symptoms so much and write of nothing else and those graphic descriptions may be reality but what scares me is the fact that the GOOD is so often omitted and that presents a very distorted image to the reader, it is therefore unfair to other members to not disclose the good also... this member in particular never disclosed that they were living a pretty normal and happy life for a large percentage of every day, you would certainly not think it to read their blog and that is where I think it is wrong because to any new person reading would be absolutely terrified to read that stuff, I have had a pretty crappy withdrawal so far but I post the good stuff also...

What I am saying here is some just go a tad over the top on writing exhaustively of suffering only and whilst doing so leave out any hint of recovery and is that not what this site is all about? Supporting others? Writing about the bad only and leaving out any good simply isn't telling it as it is... and that is not fair to others that are just starting out in this, it paints a very bleak future for anyone about to embark on getting off these drugs and I think that is wrong, people should tell it as it is, if we simply log all of our symptoms day in and day out for years without logging the actual progress, every post just reads the same, I fail to even see how that same person could even see where they started to feel better because there is no mention of improvement at all, anywhere !!!

Again, I should add that this is not in the protracted board either and I just think that some members are a little too graphic with the bad and holding back on the good stuff is not fair on the reader because it creates a one sided view of withdrawal and I have read these accounts and thought to myself "How does someone keep living like that month after month, year after year?" but like I say, that same person cheerily admitted that they felt "normal" much of the time and were able to live and function for the most part but you certainly would not have thought that the case from the content of their blog.

Anyway, I digress... the support here is great but I often wonder if the site can be damaging also... as a support site we should at least share the good because to omit that info is not really fair, we owe it to others in this to share the good stuff also, otherwise we pretty much just scare the readers that do come here and that can't be healthy.

As for protracted people that suffer pretty much all the time, that must be awful and I understand the frustrations there, I suppose I am just frustrated at my own situation and I pretty much know for a fact that if I sped up my taper I would be in a bad place, otherwise I would do it and yet even tapering this slow, I still don't know if I could be ill some time after... and I wonder at times if this is worth it, I just did not bargain for this taking as long and I am still stuck on the drug and the road just seems even longer... yet I know these days to steer away from the bad stuff as it only induces fear, I should not compare my situation to that of a CT person in year one or two, I have healed a lot so far but it is just annoying slow to make more improvements these days and at times I get pretty angry that this is taking so long... but I try and share the good also because it is important to share the good as well as the bad because it gives others hope and we all need that, I know the protracted folk do also, it's not easy for you guys I am sure, I have been at this long enough to know what it is like... seems some of us are truly unlucky in this journey.

 

 

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I agree with Oscar that he is definately in protracted wd, otherwise, his taper would be a breeze.

Had he rapid tapered off, he would still be suffering horrible protacted wd symptoms.

I have never read of anyone, over 20 years of benzo use, get out of wd's less than 18 months.

 

 

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I agree with Oscar that he is definately in protracted wd, otherwise, his taper would be a breeze.

Had he rapid tapered off, he would still be suffering horrible protacted wd symptoms.

I have never read of anyone, over 20 years of benzo use, get out of wd's less than 18 months.

 

Sorry, but I disagree with you KNOWING what Oscar or ANYONE else would be feeling.  That is so far from the truth it isn't funny, because the fact is that WE DON'T KNOW what ANY given person would be feeling like at 18-months. 

 

And you're also WRONG about never reading about anyone who took benzos for over 20-years getting out of withdrawals in less than 18-months.  I've read of long term users who healed WAY prior than this length of time.  And myself at over 25 years of nightly use --- I've only had ONE WAVE in a year and I've stated how well I've done over and over on this board.  >:(

 

We are ALL DIFFERENT.  If I'd gone by how I felt at times during my taper, I would also have expected to still be feeling rough.  Quite frankly, THE REDUCTIONS of the benzo quite often made me feel unwell.  But once I stopped having to go through taper / reductions, I felt 100% better. 

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I agree with Oscar that he is definately in protracted wd, otherwise, his taper would be a breeze.

Had he rapid tapered off, he would still be suffering horrible protacted wd symptoms.

I have never read of anyone, over 20 years of benzo use, get out of wd's less than 18 months.

 

Thanks meo, I certainly don't feel "good" to be a part of that but I know that the protracted folk tend to think of this as a drug free deal only and I get that, they are entitled to that view as Lord knows they feel ostracised enough by people actively tapering, so I totally get it but it dawned upon me a LONG time ago that this was going to take me a very, very long time to recover and that time just seems to carrying on getting longer, I can only hope that at some point my taper does become easier but it is pretty certain that as a long term user this was always going to be protracted in nature, why would I be the lucky one after so many years of use? I could see it myself by the time I had been at this for 2 years... all I am trying to do is recover whilst tapering, hence it being so slow because I figure at least I have some measure of control over my suffering... if I were to get free within the next year or two, there is no doubt in my mind I would be not recover fully within the 18 month period, how do I know that? I know how bad I can get if I try and taper faster, that is why and the only alternative I have is to go slow so I can at least take a break now and then... although there might come a time when this taper doesn't work (hopefully not) and if that happens, I would not really have anything to lose by making bigger cuts to get free but I think by doing so I would set myself back quite a way and even if I did not become officially protracted (unlikely) I would probably have one hell of a nasty time of it for some months and that is why I choose to at least try and spread this out over time to lose symptoms as I get lower in the hope that I reach a lower dose at some point where things really start to get better... it's a crapshoot but the alternative would be a lot more painful and I know that but hoping things start to really fall into place at 2 mgs, if not, then I am not sure what my next move will be, I will have to cross that bridge when I reach it, I guess I am hoping that by taking so much time alone to reach that goal that my brain will have continued to heal with every reduction and that at some point, the chemical anxiety that I get when I taper at least becomes a little easier to tolerate, I only need it to dial down a little and I would be able to taper better... I can't see that anxiety lasting far beyond 2 mgs... at some point it has to ease off surely? The last 33 months and the next year surely will have made a dent in this by then but only time will tell, at least my baseline is good... for that I am grateful... so that tells me healing has happened and the lower I get, the better I should feel on the basis I take my time.

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IMHO Oscar,

You definitely, did the right thing for your situation and your success will help thousands more in the future.

Yes, u will heal and that will be a day to celebrate.

Everyone heals and recovers except if someone dies before they heal.

 

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I agree with Oscar that he is definately in protracted wd, otherwise, his taper would be a breeze.

Had he rapid tapered off, he would still be suffering horrible protacted wd symptoms.

I have never read of anyone, over 20 years of benzo use, get out of wd's less than 18 months.

 

Sorry, but I disagree with you KNOWING what Oscar or ANYONE else would be feeling.  That is so far from the truth it isn't funny, because the fact is that WE DON'T KNOW what ANY given person would be feeling like at 18-months. 

 

And you're also WRONG about never reading about anyone who took benzos for over 20-years getting out of withdrawals in less than 18-months.  I've read of long term users who healed WAY prior than this length of time.  And myself at over 25 years of nightly use --- I've only had ONE WAVE in a year and I've stated how well I've done over and over on this board.  >:(

 

We are ALL DIFFERENT.  If I'd gone by how I felt at times during my taper, I would also have expected to still be feeling rough.  Quite frankly, THE REDUCTIONS of the benzo quite often made me feel unwell.  But once I stopped having to go through taper / reductions, I felt 100% better.

 

Juliea,

 

I get that we are all different but I get extreme terror if I taper faster, you were symptomatic whilst you tapered but you were able to deal with it whereas I can't, it is not just from the horror stories I have read on here, I have experienced anxiety that is so ridiculously high that I have not been able to cope, I am talking complete terror here and I just can't take bigger cuts to get free, I really can't and I think if i tried I would be heading straight for a psych ward... and so I taper extremely slowly because, for me, there is no other option until that chemical anxiety at least starts to wane... I know what I can and cannot cope with and nobody on this site could tell me to go faster because, even with all the best intentions in the world, the fact is we ARE all different and I know what I can and cannot tolerate... for me, getting off this drug safely is all that I am worried about, I don't even care how long it takes as long as I can hold it together at home, failure to get any lower I will have to seek help to finish this... and this is not based on anything I have read but from experience, to rapid taper from 2.9 mgs or even to try and make bigger cuts would be a complete disaster, it just would not work out and I know that, trust me there is nothing I would like more than to be on the other side of this but getting free prematurely would not be the end of this for me and the risks are just too high for me to even contemplate doing so... some of us are just extremely sensitive to dosage reductions and I am not prepared to feel like I want to throw myself under a bus because I became impatient... it's just not worth it in my opinion.

 

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I will add that it is enormously encouraging to see you Juliea and Challis and other long term users manage to get free and do well, yet Challis tried to jump initially at a higher dose and she knew she had to go back, I am pretty much like that I guess, there is an internal thing that either says yes or no and there is no way to argue with that... I am not sure why it is harder for me other than that we are all different I guess...

 

If I can preserve my baseline and gradually recover whilst tapering then that is the best chance i have right now and maybe, just maybe things will ease up at some point, maybe at 2 mg maybe not but I am hopeful that is the case for me, I have lost some symptoms on the way down but the anxiety that can be so ridiculous has to start to get more manageable for me to even start to think of getting the rest of this done.

 

It will no doubt loosen it's grip eventually but I have no idea when... I could get free sooner but if I were to try, I would end up with a lot of symptoms much like Mandala and I would more than likely not make it, therefore slow is my preferred route... for the time being at least... there might well come a time where I start to feel acute no matter what I do in which case I will have to bite the bullet and get this done but I figure the lower I can get before doing so, the better off I will be... not sure if that logic will actually make any difference but the lower we taper to and jump, the better in my opinion.

 

If I can get to 2 mgs, I will get free regardless of how I do it... until then I just don't know... it may come to it that dragging this out no longer makes sense.. in which case I will just have to take the plunge I guess...

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I agree with Oscar that he is definately in protracted wd, otherwise, his taper would be a breeze.

Had he rapid tapered off, he would still be suffering horrible protacted wd symptoms.

I have never read of anyone, over 20 years of benzo use, get out of wd's less than 18 months.

 

Sorry, but I disagree with you KNOWING what Oscar or ANYONE else would be feeling.  That is so far from the truth it isn't funny, because the fact is that WE DON'T KNOW what ANY given person would be feeling like at 18-months. 

 

And you're also WRONG about never reading about anyone who took benzos for over 20-years getting out of withdrawals in less than 18-months.  I've read of long term users who healed WAY prior than this length of time.  And myself at over 25 years of nightly use --- I've only had ONE WAVE in a year and I've stated how well I've done over and over on this board.  >:(

 

We are ALL DIFFERENT.  If I'd gone by how I felt at times during my taper, I would also have expected to still be feeling rough.  Quite frankly, THE REDUCTIONS of the benzo quite often made me feel unwell.  But once I stopped having to go through taper / reductions, I felt 100% better.

 

Juliea,

 

I get that we are all different but I get extreme terror if I taper faster, you were symptomatic whilst you tapered but you were able to deal with it whereas I can't, it is not just from the horror stories I have read on here, I have experienced anxiety that is so ridiculously high that I have not been able to cope, I am talking complete terror here and I just can't take bigger cuts to get free, I really can't and I think if i tried I would be heading straight for a psych ward... and so I taper extremely slowly because, for me, there is no other option until that chemical anxiety at least starts to wane... I know what I can and cannot cope with and nobody on this site could tell me to go faster because, even with all the best intentions in the world, the fact is we ARE all different and I know what I can and cannot tolerate... for me, getting off this drug safely is all that I am worried about, I don't even care how long it takes as long as I can hold it together at home, failure to get any lower I will have to seek help to finish this... and this is not based on anything I have read but from experience, to rapid taper from 2.9 mgs or even to try and make bigger cuts would be a complete disaster, it just would not work out and I know that, trust me there is nothing I would like more than to be on the other side of this but getting free prematurely would not be the end of this for me and the risks are just too high for me to even contemplate doing so... some of us are just extremely sensitive to dosage reductions and I am not prepared to feel like I want to throw myself under a bus because I became impatient... it's just not worth it in my opinion.

 

((((Oscar)))), I was not commenting in opposition to your chosen way to taper.  I was commenting on the absolute manner in which the poster posted.  We can't possibly be fortune tellers in that we can without a doubt predict what will or will not happen during the process of recovery.  It does not work that way.  I am not attempting to influence you or anyone else to taper faster than they wish to taper.  Someone could be on benzos for many, many years, suffer immensely during their taper, jump and go through acute withdrawal and be doing really well in any varying length of time.  Or they could be doing crappy for any length of time.  This can simply not be predicted with complete accuracy.  This is all I am saying.

 

 

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I agree with Oscar that he is definately in protracted wd, otherwise, his taper would be a breeze.

Had he rapid tapered off, he would still be suffering horrible protacted wd symptoms.

I have never read of anyone, over 20 years of benzo use, get out of wd's less than 18 months.

 

Sorry, but I disagree with you KNOWING what Oscar or ANYONE else would be feeling.  That is so far from the truth it isn't funny, because the fact is that WE DON'T KNOW what ANY given person would be feeling like at 18-months. 

 

And you're also WRONG about never reading about anyone who took benzos for over 20-years getting out of withdrawals in less than 18-months.  I've read of long term users who healed WAY prior than this length of time.  And myself at over 25 years of nightly use --- I've only had ONE WAVE in a year and I've stated how well I've done over and over on this board.  >:(

 

We are ALL DIFFERENT.  If I'd gone by how I felt at times during my taper, I would also have expected to still be feeling rough.  Quite frankly, THE REDUCTIONS of the benzo quite often made me feel unwell.  But once I stopped having to go through taper / reductions, I felt 100% better. 

Hi juliea,

I appologize, I should have stated that I include tapering months with the post benzo months for healing because healing occurs while tapering as well.

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I could make a tenth of a mg cut and it would hit me like a juggernaut... that's the really frustrating part... I would not be much worse off jumping I don't think.

 

:-\

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I should have stated that I include tapering months with the post benzo months for healing because healing occurs while tapering as well.

 

I think so too, at least I bloody well hope so !!!!!!!!!

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I said I wasn't going to get sucked back into this post again but it pains me to say I feel a necessary evil to say something:

 

Oscar, I want nothing else to see you get better and off these drugs. To heal and move on with your life bc it appears that the process has been very overwhelming for you, especially the length at which you choose to taper. I seems like over time and the longer it lingers it can become an obsession in itself, this is only my opinion and not fact by any means. But I can understand how this happens. It must be horribly frustrating and miserable for those who suffer for years.  Without judgment, you do realize you smash those for posting horror stories with very dreary details when you yourself post dreary details of your own experience quit frequently. And of all the posts I have seen since being on this board, you are posting quite a lot.....about how you feel, what you think, and your personal opinions of healing. Freedom of speech must go both ways, without judgement. YOU have been given the opportunity to post as you wish and as you feel at any given moment and I think you should give everyone else the same respect without judging their posts for whatever reason YOU don't agree with. Because many of us have read your long long posts of your journey and been respectful and cheered you on bc isn't that what we all want? Acknowledgement that this sucks, to get support and compassion?

 

And as for knowing what would have been or the future of any of us. That is not possible. No one knows this. No one. This is life. Even in benzo wd. No one can know for certain what would have been or what will be. My in laws called me after driving all the way from Texas to ND when they were 15 miles from their home telling me they made it. They were killed in a car accident 5 miles from their home. No one can know what the future holds. No one. So we hope and we fight and we support. But again, this may just be my opinion and beliefs.

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Anyway, back on topic, NO, I have never regretted updosing or holding... by doing so has got me out of some pretty nasty holes... One tends to know when one is in one and often the safest course of action is to remedy it... go back to where you felt better and hold and then make a slower descent after a safe period of time has passed, in my opinion, the brain will adapt to lower doses but we can sometimes get too far ahead and that is when it is better to back track, pushing through symptoms can be a disaster... but it all depends on what each person can tolerate I guess... but in general, if in a very bad way, it sure does not help to push on further, that's just asking for huge problems... trust me, I did it once and it was the biggest mistake I made in what has otherwise been a pretty sensible taper... other than that I should have taken breaks earlier on.

 

 

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Grinch, I know I would suffer if I went faster, because I have been there and yes, I acknowledge that I post a lot also but trust me, there is a LOT that I have never posted on here and where possible, I share the good also and I ALWAYS put warnings and say that I am a long term user and not to compare... I also frequently say I am at 85% baseline now... so it's by no means all bad... look back at any of my blogs and you will see many positives also...

 

You are right though, this can become an obsession which is why I am out of here now... I feel OK today. I am merely debating this stuff as usual... I know, tell me to go get a life... but also remember you are on here again too.  ;):D:laugh:

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