Author Topic: Are You Glad or Sorry You Updosed or Held?  (Read 5924 times)

[Buddie]

Re: Are You Glad or Sorry You Updosed or Held?
« Reply #110 on: April 15, 2014, 04:32:26 pm »
[...] these are very good suggestions that [...] has made and I hope you will take them to heart.
I agree that you should probably avoid visiting or posting on the protracted board. You are not protracted.
Presumably that board was created so that the protracted folks, like myself, would have somewhere to go where we can express our thoughts and feelings and share our experiences both good and bad with others and not have to worry about scaring newbies or being labeled "horror stories."
I understand the reasons that board was made accessible to everyone although I have not personally felt comfortable with it and wish they would go back to making it accessible by registration only.
You have posted there quite a lot and I must say the protracted members have been most kind and compassionate with you.
Well [...] as you know I am four and a half years out. I am protracted and remain very symptomatic. I have my struggles and fears but I am hesitant to post about them because I don't want to be considered a "horror story."
I guess there's no pretty way of putting it but it both frustrates and upsets me that your wish to be shielded from the horror stories is apparently more important than my need to be heard, validated, and understood.
I know too many people who suffer in silence because they do not want to be called horror stories.

[...]

Hi [...],

I feel the whole protracted deal and the fact I am tapering slow are pretty much the same thing, I have been at this taper 33.5 months now, it will soon be 3 years and I have so much further to go, you know, there are some people on this site that take a year to lose the last mg of Valium, I have just under 3  mgs to go, so when you look at the time frame this may take me, we are looking at 6 - 7 years total... which is, I believe, a pretty realistic recovery time frame for a long term user that is having a hard withdrawal, if that is not protracted then I sure as heck don't know what is, the fact I am on the drug still is not of much relevance really given that there is pretty much no therapeutic effect below a certain dose... as much as I hate to admit it to myself, I am highly likely to be symptomatic at least until 2 mg and probably 1 mg and maybe even until the very end although I hope and pray that my healing continues and that at some point this taper becomes somewhat easier but I know for a fact it will be hard at least for the next year if not two years... only then do I think there may be a chance that things start to improve, my baseline might me quite good but as soon as I taper that goes out the window, I cannot taper faster as my suffering would be too great, I may as well CT the rest if I were to do that, so it is either super slow for me with breaks or a rapid taper off, neither are that appealing to be honest.
I hate to be so negative but the chances of protracted for me are pretty high given my duration of use and the fact that my taper has been less than smooth and even if I did taper super slow to zero, the chances are it will take me a very, very long time, so, protracted or not, the fact remains that I have been suffering withdrawals for getting on for 3 years now and it looks highly likely I have 3-4 more years more to go, two of those years will most certainly be extremely hard to navigate and I can only hope the remainder is somewhat easier... so, you know, either on or off the drug, the time frame of being unable to live and function as a normal person is the same, I am unusual in the fact that I am tapering so slowly but I saw it as the lesser of two evils when in fact I do not see a huge difference in the overall time this is taking, so anyone here can say "you are unlikely to be protracted", well, I would argue that I pretty much am already but it is amazing how people cannot see that, it should not take 7 years to lose 12 mgs of Valium yet it seems to be the case for me...
Regarding horror stories, I am not talking of posts on the protracted board, I am talking of blogs that everyone can access but I digress, we all post of suffering, myself included but what angers me is when some individuals post only the bad in their progress logs, it paints a very bleak view of becoming benzo free and one member in particular actually admitted that life was pretty good and normal much of the time but to read their blog (which is accesible to everyone) read like horror novel, there was no mention of good days, better days, feeling good or feeling great, the content was negative from start to finish, day after day, week after week, month after month and I get it, we suffer, I know that but I know for a fact this person had many hours in the day that were good also and yet chose to never mention the actual "progress" at all, therefore leaving the reader to wonder where the heck the progress was being made...
I just think there are some people that obsess over symptoms so much and write of nothing else and those graphic descriptions may be reality but what scares me is the fact that the GOOD is so often omitted and that presents a very distorted image to the reader, it is therefore unfair to other members to not disclose the good also... this member in particular never disclosed that they were living a pretty normal and happy life for a large percentage of every day, you would certainly not think it to read their blog and that is where I think it is wrong because to any new person reading would be absolutely terrified to read that stuff, I have had a pretty crappy withdrawal so far but I post the good stuff also...
What I am saying here is some just go a tad over the top on writing exhaustively of suffering only and whilst doing so leave out any hint of recovery and is that not what this site is all about? Supporting others? Writing about the bad only and leaving out any good simply isn't telling it as it is... and that is not fair to others that are just starting out in this, it paints a very bleak future for anyone about to embark on getting off these drugs and I think that is wrong, people should tell it as it is, if we simply log all of our symptoms day in and day out for years without logging the actual progress, every post just reads the same, I fail to even see how that same person could even see where they started to feel better because there is no mention of improvement at all, anywhere !!!
Again, I should add that this is not in the protracted board either and I just think that some members are a little too graphic with the bad and holding back on the good stuff is not fair on the reader because it creates a one sided view of withdrawal and I have read these accounts and thought to myself "How does someone keep living like that month after month, year after year?" but like I say, that same person cheerily admitted that they felt "normal" much of the time and were able to live and function for the most part but you certainly would not have thought that the case from the content of their blog.
Anyway, I digress... the support here is great but I often wonder if the site can be damaging also... as a support site we should at least share the good because to omit that info is not really fair, we owe it to others in this to share the good stuff also, otherwise we pretty much just scare the readers that do come here and that can't be healthy.
As for protracted people that suffer pretty much all the time, that must be awful and I understand the frustrations there, I suppose I am just frustrated at my own situation and I pretty much know for a fact that if I sped up my taper I would be in a bad place, otherwise I would do it and yet even tapering this slow, I still don't know if I could be ill some time after... and I wonder at times if this is worth it, I just did not bargain for this taking as long and I am still stuck on the drug and the road just seems even longer... yet I know these days to steer away from the bad stuff as it only induces fear, I should not compare my situation to that of a CT person in year one or two, I have healed a lot so far but it is just annoying slow to make more improvements these days and at times I get pretty angry that this is taking so long... but I try and share the good also because it is important to share the good as well as the bad because it gives others hope and we all need that, I know the protracted folk do also, it's not easy for you guys I am sure, I have been at this long enough to know what it is like... seems some of us are truly unlucky in this journey.

 
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[Buddie]

Re: Are You Glad or Sorry You Updosed or Held?
« Reply #111 on: April 15, 2014, 04:40:25 pm »
I agree with [...] that he is definately in protracted wd, otherwise, his taper would be a breeze.
Had he rapid tapered off, he would still be suffering horrible protacted wd symptoms.
I have never read of anyone, over 20 years of benzo use, get out of wd's less than 18 months.

Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Are You Glad or Sorry You Updosed or Held?
« Reply #112 on: April 15, 2014, 05:01:38 pm »
I agree with [...] that he is definately in protracted wd, otherwise, his taper would be a breeze.
Had he rapid tapered off, he would still be suffering horrible protacted wd symptoms.
I have never read of anyone, over 20 years of benzo use, get out of wd's less than 18 months.


Sorry, but I disagree with you KNOWING what [...] or ANYONE else would be feeling.  That is so far from the truth it isn't funny, because the fact is that WE DON'T KNOW what ANY given person would be feeling like at 18-months. 

And you're also WRONG about never reading about anyone who took benzos for over 20-years getting out of withdrawals in less than 18-months.  I've read of long term users who healed WAY prior than this length of time.  And myself at over 25 years of nightly use --- I've only had ONE WAVE in a year and I've stated how well I've done over and over on this board.   >:(

We are ALL DIFFERENT.  If I'd gone by how I felt at times during my taper, I would also have expected to still be feeling rough.  Quite frankly, THE REDUCTIONS of the benzo quite often made me feel unwell.  But once I stopped having to go through taper / reductions, I felt 100% better.   
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Are You Glad or Sorry You Updosed or Held?
« Reply #113 on: April 15, 2014, 05:01:56 pm »
I agree with [...] that he is definately in protracted wd, otherwise, his taper would be a breeze.
Had he rapid tapered off, he would still be suffering horrible protacted wd symptoms.
I have never read of anyone, over 20 years of benzo use, get out of wd's less than 18 months.

Thanks meo, I certainly don't feel "good" to be a part of that but I know that the protracted folk tend to think of this as a drug free deal only and I get that, they are entitled to that view as Lord knows they feel ostracised enough by people actively tapering, so I totally get it but it dawned upon me a LONG time ago that this was going to take me a very, very long time to recover and that time just seems to carrying on getting longer, I can only hope that at some point my taper does become easier but it is pretty certain that as a long term user this was always going to be protracted in nature, why would I be the lucky one after so many years of use? I could see it myself by the time I had been at this for 2 years... all I am trying to do is recover whilst tapering, hence it being so slow because I figure at least I have some measure of control over my suffering... if I were to get free within the next year or two, there is no doubt in my mind I would be not recover fully within the 18 month period, how do I know that? I know how bad I can get if I try and taper faster, that is why and the only alternative I have is to go slow so I can at least take a break now and then... although there might come a time when this taper doesn't work (hopefully not) and if that happens, I would not really have anything to lose by making bigger cuts to get free but I think by doing so I would set myself back quite a way and even if I did not become officially protracted (unlikely) I would probably have one hell of a nasty time of it for some months and that is why I choose to at least try and spread this out over time to lose symptoms as I get lower in the hope that I reach a lower dose at some point where things really start to get better... it's a crapshoot but the alternative would be a lot more painful and I know that but hoping things start to really fall into place at 2 mgs, if not, then I am not sure what my next move will be, I will have to cross that bridge when I reach it, I guess I am hoping that by taking so much time alone to reach that goal that my brain will have continued to heal with every reduction and that at some point, the chemical anxiety that I get when I taper at least becomes a little easier to tolerate, I only need it to dial down a little and I would be able to taper better... I can't see that anxiety lasting far beyond 2 mgs... at some point it has to ease off surely? The last 33 months and the next year surely will have made a dent in this by then but only time will tell, at least my baseline is good... for that I am grateful... so that tells me healing has happened and the lower I get, the better I should feel on the basis I take my time.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Are You Glad or Sorry You Updosed or Held?
« Reply #114 on: April 15, 2014, 05:07:54 pm »
IMHO [...],
You definitely, did the right thing for your situation and your success will help thousands more in the future.
Yes, u will heal and that will be a day to celebrate.
Everyone heals and recovers except if someone dies before they heal.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Are You Glad or Sorry You Updosed or Held?
« Reply #115 on: April 15, 2014, 05:15:23 pm »
I agree with [...] that he is definately in protracted wd, otherwise, his taper would be a breeze.
Had he rapid tapered off, he would still be suffering horrible protacted wd symptoms.
I have never read of anyone, over 20 years of benzo use, get out of wd's less than 18 months.


Sorry, but I disagree with you KNOWING what [...] or ANYONE else would be feeling.  That is so far from the truth it isn't funny, because the fact is that WE DON'T KNOW what ANY given person would be feeling like at 18-months. 

And you're also WRONG about never reading about anyone who took benzos for over 20-years getting out of withdrawals in less than 18-months.  I've read of long term users who healed WAY prior than this length of time.  And myself at over 25 years of nightly use --- I've only had ONE WAVE in a year and I've stated how well I've done over and over on this board.   >:(

We are ALL DIFFERENT.  If I'd gone by how I felt at times during my taper, I would also have expected to still be feeling rough.  Quite frankly, THE REDUCTIONS of the benzo quite often made me feel unwell.  But once I stopped having to go through taper / reductions, I felt 100% better.

[...],

I get that we are all different but I get extreme terror if I taper faster, you were symptomatic whilst you tapered but you were able to deal with it whereas I can't, it is not just from the horror stories I have read on here, I have experienced anxiety that is so ridiculously high that I have not been able to cope, I am talking complete terror here and I just can't take bigger cuts to get free, I really can't and I think if i tried I would be heading straight for a psych ward... and so I taper extremely slowly because, for me, there is no other option until that chemical anxiety at least starts to wane... I know what I can and cannot cope with and nobody on this site could tell me to go faster because, even with all the best intentions in the world, the fact is we ARE all different and I know what I can and cannot tolerate... for me, getting off this drug safely is all that I am worried about, I don't even care how long it takes as long as I can hold it together at home, failure to get any lower I will have to seek help to finish this... and this is not based on anything I have read but from experience, to rapid taper from 2.9 mgs or even to try and make bigger cuts would be a complete disaster, it just would not work out and I know that, trust me there is nothing I would like more than to be on the other side of this but getting free prematurely would not be the end of this for me and the risks are just too high for me to even contemplate doing so... some of us are just extremely sensitive to dosage reductions and I am not prepared to feel like I want to throw myself under a bus because I became impatient... it's just not worth it in my opinion.
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Are You Glad or Sorry You Updosed or Held?
« Reply #116 on: April 15, 2014, 05:28:08 pm »

I will add that it is enormously encouraging to see you [...] and Challis and other long term users manage to get free and do well, yet Challis tried to jump initially at a higher dose and she knew she had to go back, I am pretty much like that I guess, there is an internal thing that either says yes or no and there is no way to argue with that... I am not sure why it is harder for me other than that we are all different I guess...

If I can preserve my baseline and gradually recover whilst tapering then that is the best chance i have right now and maybe, just maybe things will ease up at some point, maybe at 2 mg maybe not but I am hopeful that is the case for me, I have lost some symptoms on the way down but the anxiety that can be so ridiculous has to start to get more manageable for me to even start to think of getting the rest of this done.

It will no doubt loosen it's grip eventually but I have no idea when... I could get free sooner but if I were to try, I would end up with a lot of symptoms much like [...] and I would more than likely not make it, therefore slow is my preferred route... for the time being at least... there might well come a time where I start to feel acute no matter what I do in which case I will have to bite the bullet and get this done but I figure the lower I can get before doing so, the better off I will be... not sure if that logic will actually make any difference but the lower we taper to and jump, the better in my opinion.

If I can get to 2 mgs, I will get free regardless of how I do it... until then I just don't know... it may come to it that dragging this out no longer makes sense.. in which case I will just have to take the plunge I guess...
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Are You Glad or Sorry You Updosed or Held?
« Reply #117 on: April 15, 2014, 05:32:20 pm »
I agree with [...] that he is definately in protracted wd, otherwise, his taper would be a breeze.
Had he rapid tapered off, he would still be suffering horrible protacted wd symptoms.
I have never read of anyone, over 20 years of benzo use, get out of wd's less than 18 months.


Sorry, but I disagree with you KNOWING what [...] or ANYONE else would be feeling.  That is so far from the truth it isn't funny, because the fact is that WE DON'T KNOW what ANY given person would be feeling like at 18-months. 

And you're also WRONG about never reading about anyone who took benzos for over 20-years getting out of withdrawals in less than 18-months.  I've read of long term users who healed WAY prior than this length of time.  And myself at over 25 years of nightly use --- I've only had ONE WAVE in a year and I've stated how well I've done over and over on this board.   >:(

We are ALL DIFFERENT.  If I'd gone by how I felt at times during my taper, I would also have expected to still be feeling rough.  Quite frankly, THE REDUCTIONS of the benzo quite often made me feel unwell.  But once I stopped having to go through taper / reductions, I felt 100% better.

[...],

I get that we are all different but I get extreme terror if I taper faster, you were symptomatic whilst you tapered but you were able to deal with it whereas I can't, it is not just from the horror stories I have read on here, I have experienced anxiety that is so ridiculously high that I have not been able to cope, I am talking complete terror here and I just can't take bigger cuts to get free, I really can't and I think if i tried I would be heading straight for a psych ward... and so I taper extremely slowly because, for me, there is no other option until that chemical anxiety at least starts to wane... I know what I can and cannot cope with and nobody on this site could tell me to go faster because, even with all the best intentions in the world, the fact is we ARE all different and I know what I can and cannot tolerate... for me, getting off this drug safely is all that I am worried about, I don't even care how long it takes as long as I can hold it together at home, failure to get any lower I will have to seek help to finish this... and this is not based on anything I have read but from experience, to rapid taper from 2.9 mgs or even to try and make bigger cuts would be a complete disaster, it just would not work out and I know that, trust me there is nothing I would like more than to be on the other side of this but getting free prematurely would not be the end of this for me and the risks are just too high for me to even contemplate doing so... some of us are just extremely sensitive to dosage reductions and I am not prepared to feel like I want to throw myself under a bus because I became impatient... it's just not worth it in my opinion.

(((([...])))), I was not commenting in opposition to your chosen way to taper.  I was commenting on the absolute manner in which the poster posted.  We can't possibly be fortune tellers in that we can without a doubt predict what will or will not happen during the process of recovery.  It does not work that way.  I am not attempting to influence you or anyone else to taper faster than they wish to taper.  Someone could be on benzos for many, many years, suffer immensely during their taper, jump and go through acute withdrawal and be doing really well in any varying length of time.  Or they could be doing crappy for any length of time.  This can simply not be predicted with complete accuracy.  This is all I am saying.

Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Are You Glad or Sorry You Updosed or Held?
« Reply #118 on: April 15, 2014, 05:33:16 pm »
I agree with [...] that he is definately in protracted wd, otherwise, his taper would be a breeze.
Had he rapid tapered off, he would still be suffering horrible protacted wd symptoms.
I have never read of anyone, over 20 years of benzo use, get out of wd's less than 18 months.


Sorry, but I disagree with you KNOWING what [...] or ANYONE else would be feeling.  That is so far from the truth it isn't funny, because the fact is that WE DON'T KNOW what ANY given person would be feeling like at 18-months. 

And you're also WRONG about never reading about anyone who took benzos for over 20-years getting out of withdrawals in less than 18-months.  I've read of long term users who healed WAY prior than this length of time.  And myself at over 25 years of nightly use --- I've only had ONE WAVE in a year and I've stated how well I've done over and over on this board.   >:(

We are ALL DIFFERENT.  If I'd gone by how I felt at times during my taper, I would also have expected to still be feeling rough.  Quite frankly, THE REDUCTIONS of the benzo quite often made me feel unwell.  But once I stopped having to go through taper / reductions, I felt 100% better.   
Hi [...],
I appologize, I should have stated that I include tapering months with the post benzo months for healing because healing occurs while tapering as well.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 05:51:29 pm by [Buddie] »
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.

[Buddie]

Re: Are You Glad or Sorry You Updosed or Held?
« Reply #119 on: April 15, 2014, 05:38:45 pm »

I could make a tenth of a mg cut and it would hit me like a juggernaut... that's the really frustrating part... I would not be much worse off jumping I don't think.

 :-\
Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication. Please read our Community Policy Documents board for further information.