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What I've learned about DP/DR


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We sure see a lot of posts around this forum bring up depersonalization and

derealization.  I wanted to share my own personal discoveries about those

little buggy-boos, as they are my primary withdrawal symptom (not much

at all physical, although stuff of the mind/brain is of course physical as the

bottom line knowledge that our brains are a physical portion of our bodies).

 

This is all about "me."  I am not projecting it on other people, but am thinking

that perhaps someone else in here may sense some things similar on this

subject.

 

Some simple statements that I've noticed as my therapy progressed and as

I have felt the dp/dr lift over time of tapering clonazepam:

 

- DP and DR are not states of mind.

 

- DP and DR are not modes of thinking.

 

- DP and DR are feelings.

 

- DP and DR are memories on a visceral level,

  not a mental memory level;  they are body

  memories.. very very OLD body memories.

  So old, that they've been hidden, waiting to

  leap out through a leak in our system caused

  by trauma, multiple trauma, drugs, alcohol,

  challenging life events, etc.

 

- Each DP and DR episode seems almost "new,"

  as if it's the first time even though it's been

  innumerable times.

 

- There is a huge element of "ultimate unfairness"

  attached to these DP and DR episodes.  Moreso

  than other withdrawal symptoms by a long shot.

 

Again, these are discoveries about myself, they are not theories and they are

not attempts to sweep away or modify anybody else's experiences.  Again, I'm

wondering if it'll ring true with others here, perhaps a suspicion about your own

dp/dr, etc.

 

Any discussion about those highlighted elements of DP and DR is sure welcome

no matter any disagreement, etc.  Each of us is different in our experiences and

how we interpret and cope as we see each episode of that malady. 

 

Also, each of us has our own history, which is basically the foundation for how

we cope with the various aspects of benzo withdrawal, including DP and DR.

 

Thanks for listening,  :)

 

- Slappy

 

 

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I don't really understand DP/DR. I just read in the Ashton Manual that it can be like out of body experiences. I feel numb and disconnected from my feelings but I've had nothing like and OOB experience. Is that how it is for you?
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My derealization is basically that when I cut, I feel as if weirdness creeps into my life and makes it sort of dream like... surreal would be the word I guess, everything is strange and "off", I don't feel that life feels at all normal and with the organic fear it basically ends up feeling like being on some bad drug trip.

 

My depersonalization is milder but yes, if I cut faster, again, I would not be able to relate to myself in the mirror... to a degree I don't now but it is somewhat better than it used to be.

 

Dream like state with anxiety and not right in my head is how the dp/dr make me feel.

 

It's like living in another freaking dimension, the thing is it is sort of subtler now but when I cut it gets bad again and that is what I hate the most.

 

I want to be back on Planet Earth !!!!!!!!!  :tickedoff:

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My derealization is basically that when I cut, I feel as if weirdness creeps into my life and makes it sort of dream like... surreal would be the word I guess, everything is strange and "off", I don't feel that life feels at all normal and with the organic fear it basically ends up feeling like being on some bad drug trip.

 

My depersonalization is milder but yes, if I cut faster, again, I would not be able to relate to myself in the mirror... to a degree I don't now but it is somewhat better than it used to be.

 

Dream like state with anxiety and not right in my head is how the dp/dr make me feel.

 

It's like living in another freaking dimension, the thing is it is sort of subtler now but when I cut it gets bad again and that is what I hate the most.

 

I want to be back on Planet Earth !!!!!!!!!  :tickedoff:

 

:thumbsup:

 

 

And it robs a person of their ability to effectively communicate.

 

 

 

koko

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I find it VERY hard to express what it is like but basically I have been in dp/dr for the best part of 2.5 years and I guess it IS somewhat better but it had better get better as I get lower...

 

I am awake now to a degree but far from being "on the other side" if that makes sense.

 

I need a real window at this point.

 

 

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I believe Dp/dr in benzo w/d is a physiological event that takes place in the brain when these drugs are removed from the system..... It's as simple as that. The Dp/dr state definantly alters our sense of reality which in turn causes us to believe that it may be a form of protection... Protecting the sufferer from extreme anxiety or a number of other cause I have read on this board. The only cause of Dp/dr from benzo w/d is physiological brain trauma as a result of stopping these drugs.

 

I , nor most people on his board, have EVER suffered from ANYTHING even remotely like Dp/dr. This bizzare state of being only happened when we started tapering or abruptly stopped benzos . When our brains physiologically heal it goes away.

 

One day science will be able to explain what exactly happens in our brains when withdrawing from benzos that causes this surreal state of being , but for now we only have indirect proof that this is part of a brain injury.

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I , nor most people on his board, have EVER suffered from ANYTHING even remotely like Dp/dr. This bizzare state of being only happened when we started tapering or abruptly stopped benzos . When our brains physiologically heal it goes away.

 

One day science will be able to explain what exactly happens in our brains when withdrawing from benzos that causes this surreal state of being , but for now we only have indirect proof that this is part of a brain injury.

 

I believe dp/dr is the brain protecting us from trauma... I don't think of it as injury.

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These responses bear out what my therapist has been telling me for months, that

my labeling my described feelings "dp/dr" may be erroneous;  I may not have

much of true dp/dr at all.

 

The feelings that flew up in the incidents that led up to the PTSD diagnosis were

my personal traumas from the past, all balled into one big feeling, and that is

what I experience in milder forms as time goes by, and as I taper.

 

The "dreamlike" thing, the "don't know myself in the mirror," did present itself

off and on early in my benzo experience, but that lifted at about half way through

my taper (well, about half way to the point I'm at now in my taper ;)).

 

Your responses are helping me sort this stuff, even though I've seen dp described

many times, this is in a benzo related forum, which we're all dealing with, so it

is more helpful.  :)

 

- Slappy

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I once experienced a very short episode of derealizatiion while having a panic attack pre-benzos. I didn't even know what a benzo was, nor did I know what derealization was at the time. When I described my feelings during that panic attack to my (then) pdoc, he didn't even hesitate before telling me that it was DR.

 

So, no, I don't believe that dp/dr stems from brain injury either. Many people experience dp/dr due to traumatic incidents in their lives. And even some of them are rx'd benzos because of it. How's that for irony?

 

 

koko

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For me the DP/DR seems perceptual. Like my brains connection with my eyes and ears has been compromised. Since my brain isn't processing the information properly, reality seems skewed. My DR is always worse at night and on cloudy days because of this. The eye brain connection has been harmed, so dark lightening triggers it.

 

One of my friends sees a neurological PT and the PT says there is a part of your brain called the somatosensory, and it is responsible for placing you in time and space using the eyes, ears, and location f the ankles and knees. When this part of the brain is thrown off, people have problems with low,lighting, which is clearly what happened to me.

 

It has gotten better because I used to have it all day, very thick, and now it's off and on and only triggered by lighting.

 

There are exercises you can do to help this part off he brain 'reset', as well.

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For me the DP/DR seems perceptual. Like my brains connection with my eyes and ears has been compromised. Since my brain isn't processing the information properly, reality seems skewed. My DR is always worse at night and on cloudy days because of this. The eye brain connection has been harmed, so dark lightening triggers it.

 

Well, there's yet another piece of info that makes me wonder about all this.  Night and

dark, stormy days give me peace.. I look forward to  nightfall and a nice dark

room to sleep in.  Stormy days that really darken the sky settles me down if I'm feeling

anxious.  I've always been that way and benzos did not change that.

 

I once experienced a very short episode of derealizatiion while having a panic attack pre-benzos. I didn't even know what a benzo was, nor did I know what derealization was at the time. When I described my feelings during that panic attack to my (then) pdoc, he didn't even hesitate before telling me that it was DR.

 

So, no, I don't believe that dp/dr stems from brain injury either. Many people experience dp/dr due to traumatic incidents in their lives. And even some of them are rx'd benzos because of it. How's that for irony?

 

koko

 

Well, I think some doctors are taught that there's a connection between anxiety and dp/dr, thus

the commonality of benzos being prescribed when they hear their patient describe dp/dr.

 

I think the medical community needs to look into those things more deeply and not just make

such generalizations like that.  I'm wondering if in your case some sort of cognitive therapy may

have been better for you than any drug, let alone benzos.

 

- Slappy

 

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I think the medical community needs to look into those things more deeply and not just make

such generalizations like that.  I'm wondering if in your case some sort of cognitive therapy may

have been better for you than any drug, let alone benzos.

 

- Slappy

 

Absolutely!

 

But both doctors and patients alike tend to seek quick fixes as was the case with me.

 

 

 

koko

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No offense to the medical field bc I actually work in it, but there is a lot of guessing at times to find fixes for people. Drs have a set of things that may help any specific ailment. They usually start with least invasive , drugs, and go from there. I just recently ended up having an issue where the true fix was surgery but the doc wanted me to try all these diff meds that were for other conditions saying that he has had some luck with them. We are guinea pigs. I declined all drugs and went straight to the surgery. The drug guessing happens a lot especially in the psych arena. I just don't think there is enough research on these drugs or the brain on the best way to treat these issues. IMO.
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No offense to the medical field bc I actually work in it, but there is a lot of guessing at times to find fixes for people.

 

Spot on. We are all unique individuals; even twins have differences. You can't look at a brain like you can other parts of the body, so the guessing is educated on what the doctor has experienced or learned. With so many factors to consider, one indivudual's DP/DR isn't going to be like another's, but putting a label on things is what we all like to do - because it helps us better cope with whatever is being experienced. My biggest questions in this w/d process have been "what is going on" and "why is this happening", so labels help. When things fit in a slot, it is comforting, especially when it's something I don't understand or haven't experienced. Helps me know I'm not really going mad and there is hope the weirdness will stop one day. And I hang on really tight to that hope. Don't we all?

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No offense to the medical field bc I actually work in it, but there is a lot of guessing at times to find fixes for people. Drs have a set of things that may help any specific ailment. They usually start with least invasive , drugs, and go from there. I just recently ended up having an issue where the true fix was surgery but the doc wanted me to try all these diff meds that were for other conditions saying that he has had some luck with them. We are guinea pigs. I declined all drugs and went straight to the surgery. The drug guessing happens a lot especially in the psych arena. I just don't think there is enough research on these drugs or the brain on the best way to treat these issues. IMO.

 

I know what you mean.  ;)

 

I'm in a branch of healthcare where we see a LOT of baclorfen prescribed.  It seems

to only take about a month of that, and then we see the client's med list begin to

include anti-depressants and even benzos. 

 

Interestingly, those who seek alternative pain and spasm management seem to fair

pretty well for a while, but many give in and have a baclorfen pump implanted or

just take several daily doses.  The prevailing benzos are what make me mad, but

I'm not allowed to express that stuff with them as I'm only a part time CNA and

home health aid;  I just follow orders.. but it is quite ironic in many cases.

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Hi everyone, very interesting thread. I've had DP/DR throughout my life, as I do I fact have an anxiety disorder.....funnily enough NOT why I was prescribed benzo's.

 

It used to terrify me, the feeling of not being "real", having difficulty looking in the mirror, feeling dream-like, etc. Once I realized (or came to terms with) what the feelings were I was able to get through it with much more grace. LOL.

 

DebbieRose - I love what you said about finding comfort when things fit neatly into a slot. That helps me too.

 

Slappy - I'm with you, dark nights and especially rain calm me the most. I look forward to night or darkness, I always feel better.

 

The explanation below helped me tremendously, great book.

"Depersonalisation occurs with anxiety because you are so used to watching yourself, questioning your illness, day in, day out, that you start to feel detached from the outside world. Your mind has become tired and less resilient through watching and worrying about your symptoms. It has been bombarded with worrying thoughts and becomes fatigued. When our limbs tire, they ache. When our mind tires, we feel these strange feelings of detachment from the world around us, experiencing an almost dreamlike state, convincing ourselves that we are going mad or losing it. You are not; your mind is just so very tired and just craves a rest from all this introspection of oneself"

- At Last a Life, By: Paul David

 

-Kiddo

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I've been trying to find the "benzo lies" thread in BB.. can't seem to get it in

the search thingy here.

 

I'll keep looking.  It includes the lie of dp/dr being permanent, etc.

 

I also wanted to post the link to it in that thread started by the person who

wants to quit cold turkey because he "deserves the pain."  Yipe! 

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Hi:

 

I developed D/P and D/R long before I took a benzo. It was anxiety based. For me personally, D/P felt like I was having and out of body experience. You, know, the type of thing than happens to very sick people who are hovering over their beds, looking down at both himself in bed and the docs that are trying to help him.

 

To me, D/R was like feeling surreal. Like you were looking at a Picasso painting with 3-D glasses on. The walls leaned, the floor moved. I looked into the mirror and saw some someone I never knew. People seemed to be present but yet, to my mind, they were not. The doorbell rang but I refused to answer it because I thought I made it up in my mind. That it could not be true. Hope this helps. At least from my experience. Basically, I thought I had become insane. Truly. It was the worst experience of my life. Betsy

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Hi:

 

I developed D/P and D/R long before I took a benzo. It was anxiety based. For me personally, D/P felt like I was having and out of body experience. You, know, the type of thing than happens to very sick people who are hovering over their beds, looking down at both himself in bed and the docs that are trying to help him.

 

To me, D/R was like feeling surreal. Like you were looking at a Picasso painting with 3-D glasses on. The walls leaned, the floor moved. I looked into the mirror and saw some someone I never knew. People seemed to be present but yet, to my mind, they were not. The doorbell rang but I refused to answer it because I thought I made it up in my mind. That it could not be true. Hope this helps. At least from my experience. Basically, I thought I had become insane. Truly. It was the worst experience of my life. Betsy

 

That sounds harrowing, Betsy.  You came out of it, I presume.  How did that come about, if you don't

mind my asking. 

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Hi:

 

I developed D/P and D/R long before I took a benzo. It was anxiety based. For me personally, D/P felt like I was having and out of body experience. You, know, the type of thing than happens to very sick people who are hovering over their beds, looking down at both himself in bed and the docs that are trying to help him.

 

To me, D/R was like feeling surreal. Like you were looking at a Picasso painting with 3-D glasses on. The walls leaned, the floor moved. I looked into the mirror and saw some someone I never knew. People seemed to be present but yet, to my mind, they were not. The doorbell rang but I refused to answer it because I thought I made it up in my mind. That it could not be true. Hope this helps. At least from my experience. Basically, I thought I had become insane. Truly. It was the worst experience of my life. Betsy

 

That sounds harrowing, Betsy.  You came out of it, I presume.  How did that come about, if you don't

mind my asking.

 

It came about shortly after I was diagnosed with debilitating anxiety in my early 20s. (pre benzo) I am a journalist so the stress is very bad. Deadline after deadline. I was working 70 hours per week. And sometimes even weekends. The anxiety got worse as time went on. Then I could not sleep at all.  I just laid awake at night, obsessing about what I had to do the next day. I got promoted, I had to travel a lot. I have this great fear of flying, so that made my anxiety even worse. I was traveling 2x a month. It finally got so bad that I woke up at 3 am with a panic attack. I took a leave of absence from work. When the irrational fear, D/P and D/R hit, I just fell apart and had a nervous breakdown. I didn't know what it was. I went to see a shrink and she immediately put me on Xanax. I did not know it was addictive. The D/P, fear and D/R went away. I kept taking the Xanax until it no longer worked. Then she put me on 10 mg of K. I didn't know that was addictive either. So here I am. I am worried the same thing will happen to me once I am benzo free. It scares the crap out of me. I'm glad you asked.  I needed to get this out of my system. hugs, Betsy

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I am worried the same thing will happen to me once I am benzo free. It scares the crap out of me. I'm glad you asked.  I needed to get this out of my system.

 

hugs, Betsy

 

Thank you for sharing that, Betsy.

 

Just my opinion but I doubt very much that the pre-benzo issues will come back full flower.  The memories are a part of you

and so are the coping strategies.  It's the coping strategies that change.  The memories and events of the past can't change.

But the ways we learn to deal with it all over time evolve, I think.

 

Just the fact that you're addressing it and you are doing the hard work of tapering and coping with the feelings, etc, says

that you're "pumping iron" so to speak, emotionally/mentally, etc.  Places in you that were weak are getting stronger, I'll bet.  :)

 

Admiring your strength,  :thumbsup:

 

- Slappy

 

 

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I agree. I feel like total shit every day but for some reason feel stronger every day too! My mind is made up, I'm gonna win!  :thumbsup:
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I agree. I feel like total shit every day but for some reason feel stronger every day too! My mind is made up, I'm gonna win!  :thumbsup:

 

Yeah!  :thumbsup: 

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