Can't sleep all night - Please help!

I've been using Zopiclone for 2.5-3 months. I ended at 7.5mg for the last couple of weeks, but was usually on 2.5-5mg.

 

Anytime I have tried to sleep at night without using it (or taking something else like Ativan) I have not been able to sleep.

 

What I find weird, is I can't drop off into a sleep at all. Not even a minute of sleep.

 

I've held out once for two days, and did not turn off once.

 

Is this normal?

 

I need to get off this drug and have one normal sleep.

 

Please, anyone out there, help me!

If you've been taking the drug to help you sleep, and now you want to stop taking the drug, it may just be that you have to go through a period of disrupted / minimal sleep. I went through this myself at the end of my taper; in some cases back-to-back-to-back nights of little to no sleep. It's not pleasant, but it's also not dangerous, and if you can separate the anxiety about sleep from the actual reality of not sleeping, you'll be well on your way to feeling better.

So not sleeping a minute for 2-3 days is normal when coming off Zopiclone, only after using it for 2-3 months?

So not sleeping a minute for 2-3 days is normal when coming off Zopiclone, only after using it for 2-3 months?

 

Unfortunately yes. I averaged 2 hours of sleep for 3 months at the 5 month mark on zopiclone with many zero sleep nights.

 

One other possibility for you is something called Seroquel. I had a bad reaction to it but it is a powerful sedative. It really is a last resort. Technically, it is an anti-histamine but it knocked me out cold. I wouldn't recommend using it for more than 2 weeks but it may help you get off zopiclone.

 

NOTE: Do not lose hope. I now sleep normally and I only take Vitamin D, magnesium, and melatonin. I get 6-7 hours of good sleep every night. You CAN beat this.

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One other possibility for you is something called Seroquel. I had a bad reaction to it but it is a powerful sedative. It really is a last resort. Technically, it is an anti-histamine but it knocked me out cold. I wouldn't recommend using it for more than 2 weeks but it may help you get off zopiclone.

 

 

I just want to point out that Seroquel is actually an anti-psychotic which has anti-histamine activity at low doses. If you want an anti-histamine sleep aid, I'd start with doxylamine succinate (sold over the counter as Unisom).

 

Antipsychotics can be extremely dangerous; in some cases they have caused severe and unfixable neurological damage (permanent muscle dysfunction called tardive dyskinesia). I know that they are used off label in some places as sleep drugs, but I think this is a very hazardous idea; this class of drugs is much more toxic than benzos are.

 

So not sleeping a minute for 2-3 days is normal when coming off Zopiclone' date=' only after using it for 2-3 months?[/quote]

I don't know about "normal", but it's definitely within the realm of reasonably likely possibilities. I'm assuming you had sleep problems to start with, since you were given the drug to begin with? It's quite likely that someone with a prior history of sleep problems, withdrawing from a sedative drug, will suffer from a more extreme form of insomnia than they had to begin with. 3 months is long enough to be concerned; the z-drugs are very similar to the potent, fast-acting benzos, and the fast-acting benzos seem to often create tolerance/dependence very quickly. My general rule of thumb is that using z-drugs or benzos for more than 7-14 days in a row is likely to cause problems of some kind.

 

That said, you did only take these drugs for a few months, and not for years. It doesn't seem likely that whatever withdrawal you have to go through will last an especially long time in the grand scheme of things. If you can get through a few uncomfortable weeks (maybe less, it's hard to say) your sleep will probably return to whatever it was before you were on the drugs. Try not to be worried about sleep or build this up into a really scary problem. It's not. It's an annoyance, but it's not a threat to your safety. If you find yourself spending a large part of your day =worrying about sleep, that's a sign that you're starting to involve your fight-or-flight response in your conception of sleep. That's a tough obstacle to overcome, but it can be.

 

As long as someone is in fight-or-flight mode about sleep, they will never sleep really comfortably, because the biological purpose of that response is to keep you aware of danger, and we have millions of years of evolution to keep us awake when we think we're in danger.

this class of drugs is much more toxic than benzos are

 

In your opinion. Not sure that is commonly accepted.

I don't know about "normal", but it's definitely within the realm of reasonably likely possibilities. I'm assuming you had sleep problems to start with, since you were given the drug to begin with? It's quite likely that someone with a prior history of sleep problems, withdrawing from a sedative drug, will suffer from a more extreme form of insomnia than they had to begin with.

 

I appreciate your reply.

 

I did have trouble sleeping prior to the meds, but I still slept. I did notice if I had a lot of things to do the next day, I would often lose a night of sleep. But I never felt like I do now. Never felt so wired and anxious.

 

I'm also taking 15mg Remeron per night for what my doctor thinks might be an underlying anxiety issue causing the sleeplessness. Could the Remeron be interfering with my sleep? I know it doesn't knock me out, which is really unfortunate considering how many people get great sleep using it.

 

I just spoke to my doctor on the phone, and she said that weaning off of the Zopiclone should be done by shaving off 1/4 every 5 days. She did not support the idea of using Valium as she thinks that for the amount of time I've been on Zopiclone, Valium will just create a larger problem.

 

I think the most frustrating part of this, is that I can't naturally nap. I have not gone to sleep, or even faded out into a nap since I start taking Zopiclone. I don't really feel human sometimes.

 

Any feedback would be appreciated.

One other thought. If I decided to cold turkey the Zopiclone, and used alcohol for a couple of weeks to get to bed... Would that at all work?

 

Last night I tried using 25mg of Benadryl and 15mg of Remeron. 4-5 hours later, without any luck sleeping, I ended up taking about 6mg of Zopiclone, and I still didn't sleep.

One other thought. If I decided to cold turkey the Zopiclone, and used alcohol for a couple of weeks to get to bed... Would that at all work?

 

Because alcohol is metabolized into sugar by your liver, it is typically okay for helping people get to sleep but two hours later they wake up due to a blood sugar spike (unless they drink so much that it takes all night to metabolize which most certainly would be a bad idea). I guess if it works for you that would be an option. A glass or two of red wine is considered a healthy thing by some people anyway.

I just spoke to my doctor on the phone, and she said that weaning off of the Zopiclone should be done by shaving off 1/4 every 5 days.

 

7 days is a bit more common because then you can do your cuts on a Friday when sleep is usually less of a pressing issue. A slower approach is usually advocated around here but 1/4 every 5-7 days is not unreasonable given your low dose usage for about 3 months.

this class of drugs is much more toxic than benzos are

 

In your opinion. Not sure that is commonly accepted.

 

It's my opinion, but it's also commonly accepted that benzodiazepines are not potentially neurotoxic, and anti-psychotics are. The newer atypical APs (of which Seroquel is one) are safer than the earlier, typical APs (like Thorazine), but they are still considered quite toxic.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19673087

We report the case of a female patient with the diagnosis of schizoaffective disorder (using DSM-IV-TR criteria) who initially received amisulpride for 3 months, discontinued gradually because of persistent and distressing extra-pyramidal symptoms, and who developed tardive dyskinesia 3 months later after the initiation of quetiapine.

(Quetiapine is Seroquel)

 

http://www.namihelps.org/assets/PDFs/fact-sheets/Medications/Seroquel.pdf

Seroquel is a type of medicine called an atypical antipsychotic. FDA has found that older patients treated with atypical antipsychotics for dementia had a higher chance for death than patients who did not take the medicine.... some  people may develop side effects known as "extrapyramidal" effects (for example:  restlessness, tremor, stiffness) or tardive dyskinesia (slow or jerky movements that one cannot control).

Of course, benzos cause terrible symptoms as well. The scary thing about tardive dyskinesia is that it's often permanent because it's a result of structural damage to the nervous system, not downregulation as with benzos.

 

http://www.tardivedyskinesia.com/tardive-dyskinesia/definition.php

. The neurological syndrome is often permanent and untreatable, and can be a serious side effect of long-term use of some neuroleptic medications that affect dopamine receptors in the brain, including medications used to treat schizophrenia, nausea, or vomiting.

 

And from Dr. Breggin:

http://breggin.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=184

Tardive dyskinesia (TD) is a movement disorder caused by the neuroleptic or antipsychotic drugs including the older ones such as Thorazine and Haldol and also the newer ones such as Zyprexa, Risperdal, Geodon, Abilify and Seroquel.  Although drug advocates often claim that the newer or atypical antipsychotic drugs cause TD at a very low rate, this is simply untrue.

 

I'm not being contrary for the sake of being contrary; I think the risks of APs are greatly downplayed. APs are, at present, the most profitable class of drugs sold in America. Question everything.

 

 

Last night I tried using 25mg of Benadryl and 15mg of Remeron. 4-5 hours later' date=' without any luck sleeping, I ended up taking about 6mg of Zopiclone, and I still didn't sleep.[/quote']

I didn't have much luck with benadryl, and like WorriedDad said alcohol usually helped me fall asleep but wake up badly an hour or two later. When I had severe insomnia from early w/d, nothing really helped that much, but Unisom worked better than anything else.

Dude. I said that it should be a "last resort" and that it shouldn't be taken for more than two weeks. Tardive Dyskinesia is extremely rare in 2nd gen APs and has only been reported in people on it for many years at MUCH higher doses than would be used for insomnia. People taking APs on label are taking doses ranging from 300-800mg daily for years. Those kind of doses are needed for it to affect dopamine which is what gives it its anti-psychotic properties. We are talking about 25mg daily for two weeks. I'm not advocating the use of Seroquel. I said "last resort". But not sleeping for many days IS extremely unhealthy. It is FAR more unhealthy than taking low dose Seroquel for two weeks.

Sure, and I'm happy just disagree on that -- I was just trying to provide context for my statement that APs are more toxic than benzos, since that's what you'd quoted initially.

Hi Mr Damien. ive had difficultys sleeping since 2005 ive spent many hours reading online and some insomnia problems can stem from our bodies lacking a nutrient it needs i know that vitamin C ,Potassium, magnesium, vitamin D, and vitaminB6 i have a melatonin i got from dollar general thats 10mg it has VitmainB6 added to it i usually break one of those in half and take it in the middle of the night if i wake up like at 3am, i also like to keep a fan running even during winter nights the fan noise covers up any sounds from dogs barking , loud vehicles passing by or any other disturbances such as noises the heater may make kicking on.

have you tried any aroma therapy? i put a few drops of lavandar oil on my neck after my long evening bathy , i try not to smoke past 7pm too.

Mr Damien i hope this can help god bless you, we care

I just spoke to my doctor on the phone, and she said that weaning off of the Zopiclone should be done by shaving off 1/4 every 5 days.

 

7 days is a bit more common because then you can do your cuts on a Friday when sleep is usually less of a pressing issue. A slower approach is usually advocated around here but 1/4 every 5-7 days is not unreasonable given your low dose usage for about 3 months.

 

I agree on that WorriedDad. I did a C/T (not my idea) off of 12.5 mg of Ambien CR and didn't sleep for four nights. After that, I was just fine, but of course I lost the med that made me fall asleep in the 1st place. But I was only on it for two weeks. Now, I use Trazodone. Betsy

Last night I took 50mg of Benedryl, and 7.5mg of Remeron. Went to be and felt wired. Couldn't sleep at all.

 

Got up and went to the kitchen and quickly drank a lot of whiskey. Got really sick, threw up, and passed out. Now dealing with an evil hangover.

 

I'm starting to think that the sleep issue is actually caused by anxiety.

 

If that is the case, would it be better to treat it with something like Remeron or Lexapro?

 

I got a script for Lexapro from my GP at my last visit, but never took it out. Maybe I should?

 

Would appreciate any input.

 

Thanks

I'm starting to think that the sleep issue is actually caused by anxiety.

I'm just guessing, but I think it might be both withdrawal, and anxiety. The two things can work in a vicious feedback cycle. But, as long as you're anxious about sleep itself, you're probably not going to have much luck sleeping soundly.

 

If that is the case, would it be better to treat it with something like Remeron or Lexapro?

 

I got a script for Lexapro from my GP at my last visit, but never took it out. Maybe I should?

This is entirely your decision, and people have very different experiences with these drugs. Speaking personally I was unable to unwind any of my anxiety about sleep with drugs, and so the only things that got me sleeping normally again were specific cognitive techniques, time and patience.

 

I know this issue can be really terrible, and I remember how awful life felt when I was sleeping badly and spending most of the day worrying about sleeping badly. It can get better, though!

So not sleeping a minute for 2-3 days is normal when coming off Zopiclone, only after using it for 2-3 months?

 

Yes, it's quite normal. I took me four nights of 0 sleep before the Z Drug left my system for good. Betsy

I saw a pdoc today.

 

He said I should go off of the Zopiclone/Lorazepam/Remeron, and take Seroquel for sleep, and Lexapro for anxiety.

 

What do you guys think?

 

The pdoc said I can just move over to the new drugs tomorrow. Do I not need to taper anything?

He said I should go off of the Zopiclone/Lorazepam/Remeron, and take Seroquel for sleep, and Lexapro for anxiety.

 

If an SSRI is needed then Lexapro is my favorite. I don't think Seroquel should be used long term. I don't have a problem with its use to get you off z-drugs but I would switch to an OTC and other natural alternatives after two weeks max.

He said I should go off of the Zopiclone/Lorazepam/Remeron, and take Seroquel for sleep, and Lexapro for anxiety.

 

If an SSRI is needed then Lexapro is my favorite. I don't think Seroquel should be used long term. I don't have a problem with its use to get you off z-drugs but I would switch to an OTC and other natural alternatives after two weeks max.

 

Do you think it's fine to just cold turkey switch from Zopiclone/Lorazepam (that I'm taking tonight) over to Seroquel and Lexapro tomorrow?

Had a good sleep on Lorazepam (1mg) and Zopiclone (7.5mg) last night.

 

I had a question about this though... I tried Remeron a couple of weeks back, at 7.5mg and 15mg. Didn't do a thing for sleep. Maybe made me a little groggy, but that's it.

 

Should I expect the same from Seroquel, or do you think I might have more success with this?

 

I'm also possibly dealing with some rebound insomnia from the 2.5 months of Zopiclone and occassional Lorazepam use.

 

Will Seroquel be able to help here?

Should I expect the same from Seroquel, or do you think I might have more success with this?

 

They are both antihistamines at low levels. But that doesn't mean they are equal. They likely have different affinities for the receptors and their subunits. You won't know until you try.

 

In terms of stopping CT. Not a big fan of that idea but given your relatively short usage period and relatively low dose it isn't a ridiculous idea.

Should I expect the same from Seroquel, or do you think I might have more success with this?

 

They are both antihistamines at low levels. But that doesn't mean they are equal. They likely have different affinities for the receptors and their subunits. You won't know until you try.

 

In terms of stopping CT. Not a big fan of that idea but given your relatively short usage period and relatively low dose it isn't a ridiculous idea.

 

I'm going to try the Seroquel tonight, to see if it works.

 

Also about to take my first Lexapro.

 

If I wanted to wean off the Zopiclone, would I just need to do it while I'm taking the Seroquel?

 

This inability to fall asleep day or night, seems like it might be a rebound of some sort. If that's the case, do I have to go back on the drugs and try tapering again?

 

Wishing I never tried Zopiclone 2.5 months ago... Biggest regret ever!

If I wanted to wean off the Zopiclone, would I just need to do it while I'm taking the Seroquel?

 

You should consult with your doctor on that one. I don't know about interactions. If you want to know if the Seroquel works though it would be best to try it in isolation. What dose were you prescribed?