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Cross-Over to Valium Support Thread


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Hi everyone,

 

This thread will be for all of us who are thinking of crossing over from their benzo to Valium, for all of those who are still in the process and those who have already crossed over and could really help by sharing their experiences.

 

Lately, so many people have been on the Diazepam support thread, discussing their cross over (including myself).

So, when I got a pm this morning from one of the most helpful buddies out here, asking if I would be interested in starting a thread on this topic( since my c/o was so succesfull)I was happy to do so.

This indeed deserves its own thread, seeing how many people have questions about it and have done it in the past or are still struggling and trying to find answers.

 

Now that this particular topic  has its own section, it might be easier for people to find it when searching for c/o information and also make the Diazepam thread more available for discussing ALL things Valium and not just focus on crossing over from a previous benzo.

 

I would be more than happy to share my experience, my schedule, etc with anyone who is interested.

I'm far from an expert on it, or any other benzo use, but I have been able to switch over from Ativan to Valium in a little bit over two weeks without any problems worth mentioning and would be honored if anyone , even if its that one person, could be helped by the things I do know by now. I notice we all learn pretty quick about this crazy world of benzo's we find ourselves in.

 

I hope that many people will share here, vent, ask, give advice and that we can create a good place to be during this process. Most of all I hope that people who are still suffering so, will get some hope and advice.

I realize that my experience could very well not be the same for others. But that's why it's good to have many people on board who know different things. And knowing the many wonderful experienced people here, I'm sure they would be willing to chime in as well.

 

I hope to see you all here soon and often.

 

I'm off to the sandbox area to practice my skills on how to post links and quotes and such.

And please spread the word that we are here!!!

Take care and credit for Etown for coming up with the idea!!

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Mom a great idea because you are doing it. I will take no credit you were born to do this! To everyone who needs c/o advise follow Mom's last 3 weeks of posts and you will see the caterpillar to butterfly analogy happen before your eyes.

This idea of crossing over from you Benzo to Valium/Diazepam is not a new idea and not for everyone but this thread will be for those who want to successfully cross over.

Thanks Mom for taking the lead

etown

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Great idea Mom. I don't profess to having much knowledge about doing a cross over because I never had to do one, but it's good to see those who do need to do a c/o now have their own support thread.
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[89...]

Thanks guys! It means a lot.

:'( it's getting me all happy teary.

I have not even read my own posts from three weeks ago, E, because of the  state I was in! If it wasn't for your, and my others, patience, I would still be where I was.

The 6 month withdrawal has been traumatizing and for now, I want to focus on today.

It is all so fresh still and I'm not at all feeling I'm out of the woods or feel all good. But compared to that time, I feel I've been reborn with a new mind and body.

 

Yeah, I am sure I forgot some things in the first post: this is definitely not a new thing, the going to Valium cross over. I didn't invent it! :laugh:

I am still on Valium, you know? Kind of forget full.

I might hate the Valium, but luckily it likes me. For now , I'm happy with that. I don't even want to think about what would have happened if I would not be taking it well. I could never go back to Ativan myself!

 

Well, that's it for today. I am officially all done with the c/o and going to take a breather for a couple of weeks, hoping things will smooth out even more. Then, I will be harassing everyone in the taper thread!

:smitten:

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This is a great idea Mom!

 

Your recent cross over should be an inspiration for those who are considering it or are struggling while doing it.

 

Mine was long enough ago that I have forgotten the nitty gritty of it and only have the schedule I followed as a reminder of how I managed it.

 

I hope more new members find their way here.

 

(edit: typo)

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Good Morning!  :)

 

I am now crossing over to V from Ativan. Today I cross over my second out of seven doses. So far so good. I will probably hold here for a day and Wednesday move on and start my half A and half V on dose #3 and hopefully cross that one over by Sat.

 

                                              Lynnie  :crazy:

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[89...]

Hi Lynnie,

I did that too: cutting my Ativan in half and adding the equivalent dose of Valium. After two days, switch the whole dose to Valium and hold for two days. Then attack the next dose.

This way you can see how it effects you and the Valium gets a change to build up.

 

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Hi Mom,

 

My original plan was to do 3 days of half and half and then switch, and on the same day I switch start another dose of half and half. Looking it over the past day and a half and thinking I might just hold for a day or two before I start my next day of half and half, just to see where my body is at with it. Might add 10 days on to my original plan, But that is ok.

                          Lynnie :crazy:

 

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[89...]

For those who are interested in what my schedule looked like, here it is:

 

I added 2x 1.25 Valium 5 days prior to starting my c/o. I had to updose a bit, due to bad w/d, especially inter dose troubles. Because of the upcoming switch to Valium, I decided to so this updose with valium and not Ativan.

I started with 4x 0.25 Ativan.

Then added 1.25 Valium to my 11 am and also my 9:30 pm dose.

 

Day 0.          7 am.                      11 am.                    4 pm.                    9:30 pm

                  0.25 A                  0.25 A+ 1.25 V        0.25 Ativan.            0.25 A+ 1.25 V

 

Day 1.        0.25 A.                  0.25 A+ 1.25 V        0.25 A.                  0.125 A+ 2.5 V

Day 2.  Same as day 1

 

Day 3.        0.25 A.                  0.25 A+1.25 V          0.25 A.                    3 V

Day 4.  Same as day 3

 

Day 5.        0.25 A.                  0.125 A+ 2.5 V.        0.25 A.                    3 V

Day 6.  Same as day 5

 

Day 7.        0.25 A.                        3 V.                    0.25 A.                    3 V

day 8.  Same as day 7

 

Day 9.  0.125 A+1.25 V.                3 V.                    0.25 A.                    3 V

Day 10. Same as day 9

 

Day 11.      2 V.                              3 V.                    0.25 A.                    3 V

Day 12.  Same as day 11

 

Day 13.      2 V.                              3 V.                0.125 A+ 1.25 V.        3 V

Day 14  Same as day  13

 

Day 15.      2 V.                              3 V.                    2.5 V.                      3 V

 

No more Ativan!!!!

 

As you can see, I smuggled a bit with the doses. If I would have done the exact equivalents for all, I would have been taking 3.75 V for my 11 am and 9:30 doses. Which would have been 2.5 mgr valium for the 0.25 ativan PLUS the updose i did the previous day.

However, I felt so super sedated and felt that the V was covering for my Wd from Ativan so well, that I took 3 mgr instead and see how that went. I think the temporary updose before the cross over did the trick for me and I was able to drop that a bit while in the process.

 

I also did that for my 7 am dose. If done " correctly" I would have been taking 2.5 Valium which would be the equivalent for 0.25 Ativan.

Again, I felt I could try and fortunately, it worked. It was a bit of a gamble, because I'm very sensitive to any med an had a feeling I could do with a bit less. I don't recommend that to all, by the way. But listen to your body...

 

I'm planning to start a taper somewhere mid march and get stable first. I want to feel as okay as I can before descending the taper ladder. By now, it's clear to me that, how you feel when starting the taper, can determine for a large part how you will feel during the taper. If you take it easy.

 

My taper from 4 to 0.75 Mgr from August 2013 till January 2014 had been waaaay to quick. I was very sick and didn't know it was withdrawal. I just kept cutting away per doctors advice.

I could have save myself a whole lot of trouble. But well, here I am.

 

Good luck all.

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Mom,

 

This thread is a great idea! Thanks for taking the lead!

 

I based my c/o on a modified version of Ashton's crossover schedules and I took 6 weeks to finish it. My gut feel kept telling me to speed it up, but I was frankly just too darn scared to do it. For me, it was a question of risk vs. benefit and I was so close to the edge that the risk factor was just too scary ... I felt like I had no margin for error!

 

However, for those who are interested in a faster approach, here is a link to Reg Peart's ideas about crossovers:

 

http://www.drregpeart.org/Dr%20Peart%20Sample%20Schedules%20with%20Notes%2022Sep06.pdf

 

One of the more fascinating points Dr. Peart made was that:

 

"Many lay people advise slowing down the crossover when one feels worse. Dr.Peart does not agree with this and in fact

believes that it keeps the person in high tolerance w/d even longer and for no medical reason."

 

If i were to advise anyone going through a crossover, i would say to really listen closely to your intuition and your body.

 

In fact, Mom, if you were to look back at your early posts, your intuition kept telling you to get off the Ativan and on the Valium. Even though you were getting  suggestions to consider upping the Ativan rather than starting your c/o to Valium, it seems to me you went with your intuition and it paid off in spades. Well, that's how I interpreted it, anyway.

 

Best, Human

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It occurred to me that it might also be helpful to post some links to the parts of the Ashton manual relevant to crossovers.

 

Here's a link directly to the part of the Ashton manual on "Switching to a long-acting benzodiazepine."

 

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha02.htm#13

 

And here's a link to Ashton's crossover schedules:

 

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm

 

 

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[89...]

Thanks for providing those links Human. I wa s hoping people would stop by and check in here and share!!!

You are right: I was very scared too, especially when people kept telling me to updose. Which I did, only not on Ativan. That updose got me out of the woods, after I understood about the benefits.

You don't want to go back after fighting so hard to get low. But in the end, it will save you lots of trouble , in some cases.

Yes, I'm getting better at listening to myself. It's been a long road, though. But I knew the Ativan was not agreeing with me and I had to get off faster.

I followed in Frotob's footsteps, who first brought Peart to my attention and who has been crossing over quite easily as well ( for info to other people reading here, I know you probably don't want to ...:laugh: Which is fine....not trying to bring stuff up in any way).

 

Thanks for being so helpful and that quarter fromPeart manual.

 

 

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Yes, both Mom and I crossed over relatively quickly - Mine over the course of 11 days, hers 15 or so - and we've both been doing quite well. The only difference being that she was in misery when she started, and I was relatively stable after my first cut - she updosed a little bit, using Valium - which seemed to do just the trick.

 

I essentially just followed Peart's crossover schedule to the T and noticed no ill effects, it should be stated somewhere in this thread that it is advisable to try and get stable on whatever dose you're at now of your particular benzo. . even if that means updosing a little bit to get to where you feel 85% well or so. Whether you decide to updose on your current drug, simply supplementing your current dose with a little extra valium (as Mom did), is personal preference and you may have to experiment over a few days to get to a dose you feel stable at. Once stable I'd give it 3-7 days at that dose before attempting to crossover, and after crossing over between 2-4 weeks (depending on how you're feeling) before you begin to taper off of the Valium.

 

I feel as though the biggest contributing factor as to how eventful your crossover will go, is the state in which you start it. For this reason it's advisable to try and get as stable as possible before attempting to crossover.

 

It should also be stated that Valium can be very sedating at first, so you want to limit driving and other things of the sort until your body gets used to it. The sedation does go away, for me it was gone just about completely by day 9 of my 11 day crossover. The sedation is normal, and an indication that the medicine is working.

 

The decision to crossover can be psychologically taxing, I was unsure at first if I even wanted to try it - til the interdose from my first ativan cut became intolerable. I brought a printed version of the Ashton crossover schedules to my psychiatrist and he assured me that it wasn't necessary for the process to take 6 weeks, and could be done in a much shorter time period. Which lead me to Peart's crossover schedule. Upon seeing that I was kinda scared that 11 days would be too quick, but decided to just bite the bullet and act on it. . . My crossover was uneventful, and I noticed no ill effects - other than the sedation, which I didnt mind at all. . . and I still managed to be very productive around the house.

 

For those who might be wondering about whether a crossover would benefit them, I can say that I have NO regrets whatsoever about crossing over to Valium from Ativan, and the interdose w/d is history.

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[4d...]
Hi! I am a few days in to crossing over from once a day .5mg klonopin to valium. My pdoc instructed me to take .25mg klon with 5 mg valium for 1 week, then stop the klon and go up to 7.5mg valium or 10 mg "if I have to" to cover the withdrawals. Ive looked over Dr Peart's suggestions and want to know if what I am doing is correct? Most people are starting from 2 or 3x daily dose of klon, and Im only starting from 1. Im feeling a little strange, sedated, but doing ok. Thanks for this support!
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Ingrid  - sedation is normal and will disappear a few wekks after you are done crossing over. Make sure you go to 10mg to be equivalent to .5mg K though. IMO

etown

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[4d...]
So,when I get to stopping the klonopin, I go up to 10mg on valium to cover that right? And it's not too fast to be completely on valium in 2 weeks? I know the valium is already covering the klon because when I tried dry cutting the klon, I couldn't bare it after 2 days of just cutting a crumb off, and now Ive gone down by 1/2! It's exciting and scary at the same time. Like when ur about to go up and over that huge climb on a roller coaster!
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Ingrid - yeah I've had that feeling. 2 weeks is too fast for some but it sounds like the Valium is covering the K quickly for you. Try it, you can always back up a bit if needed. I would really like to hear your story and see a signature at the bottom of your post to see where you are at in case its "help you time".

etown

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[4d...]
oh, just wondered, what should I be looking out for to tell me that I should take more valium or change something? I know that maybe feeling tired a little dizzy wont mean I need more valium, but as Im lowering the klonopin, and raising the valium, what might I feel that would tell me I need to change the ratio, etc?
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