has anyone used James Harper road back program or is it a scam

I ordered the book , just cause I wanted to read anything about how to successfully withdraw from Clonazopam,  seems to want to sell alot of supplements,  .claims if you follow the pretaper program , use the supplements, then start the taper, you can do it symptom free.    Just wondering if anyone actually tried this route or is it just a scam.

 

I ordered the book , just cause I wanted to read anything about how to successfully withdraw from Clonazopam,   seems to want to sell alot of supplements,  .claims if you follow the pretaper program , use the supplements, then start the taper, you can do it symptom free.    Just wondering if anyone actually tried this route or is it just a scam.

 

 

This has been asked here many times. If you do a forum search, I'm sure you will find lots of info about it. Most of the comments that I recall were saying that one could buy the same supplements at your local Walmart for a lot less. Just click forum above, then type Road Back in the search box. 

I ordered the book , just cause I wanted to read anything about how to successfully withdraw from Clonazopam,   seems to want to sell alot of supplements,  .claims if you follow the pretaper program , use the supplements, then start the taper, you can do it symptom free.    Just wondering if anyone actually tried this route or is it just a scam.

 

 

I tried it and believe me, it is a scam. Same with the other program out there (can't remember the name). They are trying to sell supplements for 4 times what you would pay for them at other stores - essentially making money off our suffering.

 

They are evil.

 

I ordered one of his books and here what I got out of the entire book.  You should taper at a slow rate, and there are alot of supplements you could buy.  I don't know if i would call it a scam, but it certainly was not for me.

 

 

Tim

thats what I figured , I read thru the book, and its one big sell for buying his stuff.  Should be a law about this crap, but I am sure he can come up with someone who, bought into his book , followed it, and probably swears by it. 

Like you Tim.. starting the slow taper,  hope it keeps the side effects to a minimum.  although the depression I have is pretty bad, to take day in and day out. 

I take antidepressent Wellbutrin and shrink added in nortriptyline  to juice up my coctail.  I believe it helps on some of the days.  Will know for sure about 3 months from now when I am off the shit and  hopefully not suffering from the aftermath as  it takes about a month longer for the drug to leave your body, after you quit.

 

I felt like his book was one giant in print infomercial.  I didn't even read the whole book, but the only thing tapering wise I got out of it was they recommend to go slow.  All the other "information" was about buying a bunch of supplements.  I'm not sure if they help or not, but I don't want to put a bunch of other stuff in my body while doing the taper.

 

Tim

I did quite a bit of reading/testing of such programs prior to starting my own taper.  The Road Back, Point of Return, the Pain/Stress Center's benzo w/d program, and others.

 

The advice was pretty much all the same (go slow), and the supplements recommended were also mostly the same (usually a protein supplement, along with some B vitamins, fish oil, and some natural calming/sleep aids).

 

For what it's worth, many highly credentialed preventive health practitioners will say that all supplements are not created equal.  This jibes with my own experience.  However, many people say they've done quite well with WalMart supplements.

 

I found that the withdrawal programs which sell supplements assert that theirs are higher quality, and that they have proportioned them for optimum results.  I agree that the quality of supplements, and their combination, affect their usefulness.  However, I personally achieved better results buying my supplements a la carte, because the "optimal combination" will vary from person to person.  One big tub of pre-blended Point of Return powder doesn't allow you to customize your approach, such as skipping the B vitamins if you are sensitive to them.

 

I don't see the providers of these programs as bad; in fact, I'm glad to see such products/services appearing.  But they are not cheap -- you definitely pay for convenience, and the price reflects their cost of development and business overhead.

 

And of course, lots of people do just fine without any supplements at all.

lady of the night,    you indicate you  are taking supplements,  may I ask which ones and why you think they are important. 

I was taking a multi vitamin for people over 55 years.  I am 61.  but I stopped for now wondering if adding any more pills , vitamins included , was a good idea or not,  what is your take on this,  add the multivitamine supplement back in or not.

 

I have restless leg syndrome , that I need to treat at same time, so I am  taking Oxycodone , abouit 7.5 mg. a night to keep those symptoms down.

Unfortunately, I will never be totally drug free , because of this  disease ,which is not life threating, but is not a curable thing either.   

I am told that taking the oxy, at the low level needed to keep symptoms at bay at night so I can sleep, is not a big deal, but I still don't like the idea of being on the opiates either.  so hopefully  I can, and probably will , jump back on Requip down  the road to give myself a break from the oxy.  but that will be up to my rls specialist and I to discuss.  I don't take recreational drugs , and  don't consider my personality addictive,  but then along came the benzo;s .    That really sucks, it takes so long to get off of them.

 

I looked into that myself before I found BB and have read that many have not had success with it, this place is the best in my opinion!

lady of the night,    you indicate you  are taking supplements,  may I ask which ones and why you think they are important. 

 

Sure, I take B vitamins (I have no problems tolerating them), Omega-3, and GABA to help restore the normal brain functions which were compromised by drug use.  I use melatonin, niacinamide, and theanine to induce sleep.

 

I was taking a multi vitamin for people over 55 years.  I am 61.  but I stopped for now wondering if adding any more pills , vitamins included , was a good idea or not,  what is your take on this,  add the multivitamine supplement back in or not.

 

If it wasn’t bothering you before, I see no reason it would bother you now.  And it seems logical to me that optimizing your health is a wise thing to do, especially during times of stress (such as benzo withdrawal).  You could try it and if it bothers you, discontinue it.

 

I have restless leg syndrome , that I need to treat at same time, so I am  taking Oxycodone , abouit 7.5 mg. a night to keep those symptoms down.

Unfortunately, I will never be totally drug free , because of this  disease ,which is not life threating, but is not a curable thing either.

   

 

I read an interesting article by the Life Extension Foundation which related RLS to a mineral deficiency (iron, maybe)?  It said that many people were able to reduce or eliminate the symptoms by addressing the deficiency.  In fact, there was a member of this forum (Livie, I think) who suffered from RLS and was able to get rid of it by fixing the mineral deficiency.

 

 

I read an interesting article by the Life Extension Foundation which related RLS to a mineral deficiency (iron, maybe)?  It said that many people were able to reduce or eliminate the symptoms by addressing the deficiency.  In fact, there was a member of this forum (Livie, I think) who suffered from RLS and was able to get rid of it by fixing the mineral deficiency.

 

 

Hi,

 

Actually, that would be me, I think! (maybe livie too?) Anyway, I had a severe iron storage depletion from donating too much blood. Quickly developed a debilitating case of rls. I successfully treated myself with very high doses of iron ( several months at 325mg/day)  after doing my own research.  Doctors don't know a lot about it. It was a year before I had complete relief. It takes a long time because iron has to cross the blood-brain barrier to restore ferritin levels in the brain.  (Don't do this without being under a doctors care and getting your ferritin levels tested first. )

 

Unfortunately, most cases of RLS are familial or idiopathic and don't respond to iron therapy.

 

rlshelp.org is a very good place for all that is Restless Legs Syndrome.  Here is an excerpt from the treatment page.

 

 

 

Iron Therapy

 

Iron therapy in patients with no iron deficiency has not been demonstrated to be of benefit. However, in patients with significant (and often even minor) iron deficiency states, adding iron may be of very profound help in alleviating RLS symptoms. Iron deficiency has been found in a high percentage (20-25% in some studies) of RLS patients. All patients with RLS should have their iron levels checked as detailed below.

 

Iron deficiency is usually diagnosed by the resulting anemia (decreased amount of red blood cells/smaller red blood cells), with hemoglobin levels of below 14 for men and 12 for women measured with a CBC (Complete Blood Count). However, in mild iron deficiency states, the hemoglobin may be within normal limits and therefore not indicate the patient's iron deficiency problem. Therefore, more sensitive tests such as direct iron levels (with iron binding capacity) is suggested. An even more sensitive test is the serum ferritin level. For patients with severe iron deficiency (serum ferritin levels below 18 mcg/L) or mild iron deficiency (serum ferritin levels between 18-45 mcg/L), therapy with iron was very beneficial for relieving RLS symptoms. Patients with serum ferritin levels of between 45-100 mcg/L may have some response to iron therapy, but generally not as significant as with lower serum ferritin levels.

 

Treatment of this iron deficiency should be with oral iron tablets (ferrous sulfate) of 325 mg (5 grain), three times a day. Iron is better absorbed on an empty stomach, but this may cause some stomach upset. If so, then take the iron tablets with food. The other common side effect of iron therapy is constipation (and it also turns the stool black). Metamucil (1-2 teaspoons per day) is recommended to counteract this problem (and the fiber itself has been reported to help RLS). It takes 6 months to replace iron stores, at which point the serum ferritin should be rechecked and iron therapy stopped if appropriate levels have been reached.

 

Please do not start iron therapy without the consent of your doctor. Taking iron inappropriately can cause serious problems! Therefore, do this only with proper physician guidance.

I agree with James.  Recover James that is, not James Harper.

 

I feel I recieved more information from this form than I did from the James Harper book that I ordered.  I can watch infomercials anytime.  You know if, I'm really, really bored.   

 

Tim

True, all supplements are not created equal, but the ones offered up through Road Back and Point of Return have been shown to be no better than those found at a vitamin store or walmart for half or more off what they offer.

 

The difference? They BRAND it under their name and can charge for it because it's part of their "program". It's a horrible practice and one that they've come under fire for often. They have no justification apart from the fact that they use "pharmaceutical grade" products, but what most people don't understand is that there is no such thing as a "pharmaceutical grade" supplement. Period. It all boils down to how much people are willing to be suckered into in an effort to halt withdrawal symptoms. The sad part - these companies THRIVE on making money on people being gullible and desperate, which is a damn shame if you ask me.

 

I've spent a LOT of time looking into these people, a LOT. And I even went so far as to buy their products, so I'm not making all of this up.

 

As for supplements, I've been in exercise physiology and nutrition for years now - these were my majors in college, and I can tell you this - there are a handful of supplements that have been proven to help people on a daily basis and it's simply due to the nature of how they can be obtained naturally.

 

Magnesium is number one on that list - people simply don't get enough of it, because most sources of it are no longer as rich in content as they used to be. This is due, in part, to issues with where these crops grow. It's also due in part to food preparation - spinach, for example, being a case in point (most people eat it cold, which locks the nutritional complexes, thus making it impossible to get magnesium or any other element from being absorbed). However, you need to mindful of calcium intake, too, with magnesium.

 

The other supplement would be vitamin D. There is a rise in American in terms of people with vitamin D deficiency. However, people take insane amounts of it thinking it's safe. They say you can take up to 10,000 IU of it daily, but you'd have to be out of your mind to do this. It's like when they said taking high doses of vitamin E was safe - they proved THAT was wrong. Suffice to say, everyone and their mother should see if they are deficient in vitamin D, considering how important it is.

 

Other supplements should ONLY be taken if you know you will not be getting the supplement in a natural form - especially Omega - 3. Also, Omega -3 needs to be balanced with 6 and 9, to truly be effective. Eating fish is the best way to get this, though flax is good, too, though flax has to have an additional process to break down.

 

The list of supplements that shouldn't be taken is pretty lengthy, but it includes a number of things, including B vitamins, vitamin complexes, and more. The problem with most vitamins is that they are synthetic and are NOT absorbed in the body correctly, which is why if you plan to take vitamins, you should find food based vitamins. They work where the others do NOT. However, if you eat right, you should never have a problem with vitamins or minerals and adding MORE to your system does nothing, despite what the manufacturers claim.

 

Also, it's not a good idea to take things like Melatonin daily. Yes, it's natural, and yes, your body produces it naturally, but it's still a synthetic hormone and nobody knows what kind of long term problems using Melatonin will eventually cause. One of my older textbooks talked about small trials of people using Melatonin since the synthetic was discovered, but because the groups were so small, they couldn't prove that the effects were created by the Melatonin. Still, it's not something to toy with, especially when you consider that it's not regulated and there is no way to vouch for what it is you're getting.

 

GABA, as a last comment, is perhaps the most useless of all supplements, because it actually does nothing - it can't cross the blood brain barrier and thus simply travels through your system.

 

Because of the importance of GABA as an inhibitory neurotransmitter, and its effect on convulsive states and other motor dysfunctions, a variety of approaches have been taken to increase the brain GABA concentration. For example, the most obvious approach was to administer GABA. When GABA is injected into the brain of a convulsing animal, the convulsions cease (Purpura D P, et al, Neurochem. 1959;3:238-26. However, if GABA is administered systematically, there is no anticonvulsant effect because GABA, under normal circumstances, cannot cross the blood brain barrier (Meldrum B S, et al, Epilepsy; Harris P, Mawdsley C, eds., Churchill Livingston: Edinburg 1974:55."

 

GABA may have a slight relaxing effect, but apart from that, it's useless.

 

 

Magnesium is number one on that list - people simply don't get enough of it, because most sources of it are no longer as rich in content as they used to be. This is due, in part, to issues with where these crops grow. It's also due in part to food preparation - spinach, for example, being a case in point (most people eat it cold, which locks the nutritional complexes, thus making it impossible to get magnesium or any other element from being absorbed). However, you need to mindful of calcium intake, too, with magnesium.

 

What kind of magnesium should I take? I bought some not knowing there were different kinds. Mine are just labeled Magnesium 250mg and says it helps nerve and muscle function and to take one daily with meal.

T2,

 

What you're looking for is Magnesium Citrate or Maleate (chelated). These can be found online and in any vitamin store.

 

If you look at a bottle of Mag., you'll see what kind it is. MOST of the supplements are Magnesium Oxide. If you're lucky, your body will absorb from 5-7% of the Mag. from it. However, with the recommended Mag., you'll find the absorption rate to be closer to 55-60%!

 

 

T2,

 

What you're looking for is Magnesium Citrate or Maleate (chelated). These can be found online and in any vitamin store.

 

If you look at a bottle of Mag., you'll see what kind it is. MOST of the supplements are Magnesium Oxide. If you're lucky, your body will absorb from 5-7% of the Mag. from it. However, with the recommended Mag., you'll find the absorption rate to be closer to 55-60%!

 

 

 

The bottle says on ingredients, Magnesium Oxide. So that is not the kind I want, right? I need to get the other kind you mention. 

Correct, Oxide is the one you're going to find out there most often - it's cheap.

 

I just want to make a quick point here - if you take a supplement and feel it does something for you, that's awesome. My comments are not meant to alarm people or make them feel as if what they do for themselves is pointless. In truth, some may find benefit where others do not - we're all different, we all have different body chemistry, which is why some of us have a better time with withdrawal than others.

 

This is not a debate and I don't want anyone to think I'm trying to say that what they do for themselves is bad. It's not. Just be aware that these "naturally occurring" substances are not natural derivatives - they are synthetic and science doesn't truly know what effect they have. Are they safe, for now it's hard to say no, but nobody truly knows. If you use supplements, don't go overboard and just try to find the best natural sources of most of them (eating right daily will cover the majority of your needs).