Some help needed with clonazepam taper

Hi everyone.

After 18 years of 1mg once a day of Clonazepam I am ready to get off of it.

I know slow is the way to go, and I have read so much info on here and elsewhere about tapering. I am in a bad space mentally and physically so it’s hard for me to comprehend everything I read. I was wondering if someone can help me out a little?

 

If anyone can help me with a taper schedule and how to go about cutting these 1mg pills into super small doses I would really appreciate it beyond belief. Also wondering if anyone has recommendations for a pill cutter and thoughts on using liquid titration once super small doses can’t be achieved by using a pill cutter?

Would your doctor be willing to prescribe a smaller dose tablet?

Yes she said she would have no problems doing that to help me taper

You mentioned in your introduction that you've been on this medication for a long time and you're worried because of how you felt at a young age.  I wanted to let you know that the drug begins to cause the issues we went on it to fix when we become dependent on it.  It will cause insomnia, anxiety, panic and many other problems but what I'm trying to say is, you may find that when you're benzo free and recovered from your use, your anxiety may not be as bad as it is now.  Benzo created anxiety is so bad that many who have recovered say they're able to deal with their issues now because by comparison, normal anxiety is manageable.

 

Are you interested in dry cutting your dose to start out?  This is the easiest method if you can get the smaller pills, may members have dry cut their way to freedom.  When do you think you can get the smaller pills?

 

Have you ever discontinued benzo's before?

I believe it. I’ve been suffering from insomnia the last two years.

Nothing seems to help it longer than a few days so I gave up taking meds for that.

 

I have not tried to come off benzos before.

I would prefer dry cutting until I can’t anymore as it seems to be the easiest way.

I’m on 1mg pills now, and just got a new prescription with 3 refills. So in 3 months I would be able to ask my doctor for .5mg pills.

Starlit89,

 

I was on 0.5 mg Klonopin for 15 years.

 

Let me give you some notes about mistakes I made.

 

First, very often, people get one free chance to get off benzos.  I have talked to many people who, tapered off benzo with little problem but then, they got back on the benzos and the second time they tried to taper is when all the withdrawal symptoms happened.  This was also my case.  The lesson to me is, once you make good progress, do not go back on benzos or even updose. 

 

Second, while tapering, you must learn non-benzo ways to address your insomnia and anxiety. 

 

Third, expect some symptoms.  I have not found any taper method which is free of symptoms.  The key is, do not panic.  Remind  yourself the symptoms will pass.  You will have waves and windows during your taper. 

 

I can help you with a dry cut or a liquid.  I normally request people try this link first because it is the easiest and I feel has the greatest chance of success.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whpciMUXHfY&list=PLq27kC29XVsNRJ38NeslvT14h2j0UQjEf&index=2

 

Let me explain the video:

Assume you want to be benzo free in about 6 months.

Get a container will easily holds 200 mL of water.

Each day, add your 1 mg tablet.  You can then add a few drops of vodka to help break down the tablet (that step is optional).  Then add 200 mL of water and stir very hard (harder if you skipped the vodka). 

Day 1 - remove 1 mL of mixture and drink the rest

Day 2 - remove 2 mL of mixture and drink the rest

Day 3 - remove 3 mL of mixture and drink the rest

and so on for 200 days.

 

Note, you can drink it all at once or sip it throughout the day and night.  Whatever works for you.  When empty, rinse the container and drink the rinse water.

 

Bob

 

 

 

Hi Bob. I was reading your reply and taper method and I thank you for being clear. I’ve had some get frustrated with my lack of understanding numbers and math and the dry cut method etc but I’m really trying my best. I have long Covid which is wreaking havoc on my brain and locks us in fight or flight so I’m miserable! I haven’t yet started a taper and I really think I need to wait until long Covid has passed to do this as I’m struggling so badly already. My brain hurts and I know the damage the long Covid is doing is making it hard to feel my clonazepam…..it’s happening to many long Covid victims. I have a question about your description because it was the FIRST thing I could wrap my head around on here. I can get fabulous help but it doesn’t mean my brain can understand it right now you gave an example with 1 mg clonazepam tablets and 200 ml water. If it were 1.5 mg clonazepam ……would it still be 200 ml water and decrease by 1 ml daily? Do you know what percentage of decrease this would be? I thank you for any help. I am planning ahead.

Yes, you could also use this method for a 1.5 mg initial dose of clonazepam however it would be a more aggressive taper since you are starting at 1.5 mg instead of 1mg.

 

To have the same taper, you would want to start with 300 mL of water for your 1.5 mg dose - and then you would be done in 300 days instead of 200.

 

Your initial reduction per day if you use 200 mL of water is (1/200) or 0.5%

Your initial reduction per day if you use 300 mL of water is (1/300) or 0.3%

 

 

Bob, thank you for the tips.

I hope I am able to find benzo free ways to help my insomnia and most of all anxiety. It gives me anxiety to just think about coming off the benzos that help my anxiety lol

 

Thanks for the info on liquid tapering. I’m trying to decide if dry cutting is the way I should go (I need to get a scale, razor blade, and pill cutter in that case) or if I want to do the liquid taper.

With the liquid taper you mentioned… I’m just worried that will be too much of a reduction too fast. I’m sure I could hold doses longer than a day if needed though.

Well let me know how I can help.

 

If you think the 200 day liquid taper instructions I gave you are too fast, then note, you can change it.

 

If you want a 300 day liquid taper, just start with 300 mL.

 

The non-benzo things which help me sleep are real Niacin, that is Nicotinic Acid  (NOT Niacinamide).  Also, my blood pressure medications help me - Irbesartan and Metoprolol Succinate Er.  Also, YouTube ASMR and meditations.  But you will need to accept some insomnia during the taper.

 

 

Bob thank you so incredibly much. I’ve been offered dry tapers with scales which make me so anxious I get a panic attack thinking about it and also Compunding pharmacy yet the closest is 90 miles away.

This sounds doable and my spouse will assist. So, if I’m on 1.5 mg and I want to do no larger cut than 5%, if I use 300 ml water I should be able to complete that in 300 days time? I’m sorry my Covid brain takes a bit to decipher this info. Is that correct?

Once I choose a method is there someone that would be able to provide the taper amounts at each step? I know that’s asking a lot. Thank you again. So much!

Just so you know, my compound pharmacist is four hrs away (in Dallas Tx) and overnights my med with ice packs in a styrofoam cooler and it works great!! So might be an option for you! Any questions just PM me!

 

Hope you can find what works best for you.

Bob thank you so incredibly much. I’ve been offered dry tapers with scales which make me so anxious I get a panic attack thinking about it and also Compunding pharmacy yet the closest is 90 miles away.

This sounds doable and my spouse will assist. So, if I’m on 1.5 mg and I want to do no larger cut than 5%, if I use 300 ml water I should be able to complete that in 300 days time? I’m sorry my Covid brain takes a bit to decipher this info. Is that correct?

Once I choose a method is there someone that would be able to provide the taper amounts at each step? I know that’s asking a lot. Thank you again. So much!

Yes once you pick a taper method you can ask me and I will do the math for you.  You are also right if you start with 300 ml of water you will be done in 300 days.

In your blog, Bob, it describes how you made your own pills with filler to go down very slowly. I know my capabilities right now and that would be impossible for me. If I choose to do the water taper at 300 ml coming down from 1.5 mg clonazepam daily, would I be within my parameters of not wanting to exceed a greater than 5% decrease monthly? (I hope that makes sense). I initially planned to do a Compunding pharmacy and hold 2 weeks at each dose decrease but this method looks so much easier and I can just initiate a taper on my own without needing a new Rx. I believe you stated this would take 300 days, am I correct on that? My main goal is to remain fully functionable as my mother is 83 and alone and I am her caregiver. Thank you for any assistance.

If you do the 300 mL method then in your 1st month you will drop 30 mL and 30 mL out of 300 mL is a 10% drop.

 

If you wanted a 5% drop in your 1st month you'd have to start with 600 mL.  But then of course that will take 600 days to complete instead of 300 days.

 

Thank you for the response. Wow, this is so overwhelming. I would prefer not to taper for 600 days….I know that’s not supposed to be a focus but I do think it can affect the mental a bit. I suppose one can start with 300 ml and if it feels too fast, go to 600 to slow down? I have heard that it seems to be more difficult as the dosage is lower. Perhaps I can start with 300 ml and once I get to 0.5 remaining (whatever that would be in ml’s) then slow the taper to 600 ml of water. I did like the thought of holding a dose for 2 weeks to stabilize but cutting and weighing my own pills was overwhelming. Is changing the amount of water to slow the taper if needed a doable plan?

The Compunding pharmacy did sound helpful and use oil or glycerin in a suspension. They do mail the Rx out. I don’t know if this gives me more control because I can hold a dose if needed? I like the idea of using my own tablets and not having to rely on changing my Rx. Hard to know where to begin to give me the best chance to taper and remain functionable. It’s pertinent that I do.

Yes you can start at 300 mL and then if you want to change to some other amount to slow things down I will work out the math for you.

 

But you need to accept something.  No matter what you do you're going to have withdrawal effects.  Struggling to find the optimum tapering method is just going to create anxiety.  Anxiety is your worst enemy because it stirs up the withdraw symptoms.

 

So pick a method, pray everyday, and just accept that you will have some symptoms until this nightmare is over.  But trust me it will end.

Thank you. I will get back to you with a plan my husband and I are comfortable with. Long Covid mimics drug withdrawal and I’m 8 months in so already exhausted so I’m obviously wondering how much my brain/body can take. I understand there will be some withdrawal…….am just wanting to be able to maintain some kind of life during the process.

I have had success with zoloft in the past for panic disorder. Is it acceptable to get on this prior to initiating my taper so that I have something on board to possibly assist? I’ll let you know and again, I appreciate you.

Zoloft is a nice buffer to use while tapering.  I used Buspar for about 8 weeks during the worse of my taper.

It is the anxiety which I needed to address.

Hi Bob. I am still here and didn’t forget your clear explanation and offer to help me. I’m really suffering with this long Covid and just feeling like I’ll fail until I’m feeling a bit stronger, but I do want a plan in place.

So to clarify if you don’t mind giving me the numbers for tapering from both a 1.5 mg Klonopin and a 1 mg klonopin I would be so appreciative. (Long story as to why I need both…..but it would be very helpful).

I plan to water taper. I feel most comfortable going slow. I’ve been on 1 mg K x14 years and this is my first taper.

If you can provide how many mls of water and how much to remove for a 1 mg and a 1.5 mg K taper going maybe at a 7.5% reduction? I thank you so much.

I will help you with both tapers but first I need to know.

 

When you said 7.5% reduction, is that over 2 weeks or 10 days or what?

I guess I’m uncertain. I’ve just read consistently that a taper of 5-10% is recommended for the best chance of success in getting off successfully. I have also read that it usually gets a bit tougher at the end of your taper. I suppose I was thinking that consistently coming down at 7.5% or so until the midway point of 0.5, and then reevaluating would be good. However, I’m not an expert. Does this make sense? Thank you, Bob.

You cannot do a 7.5% every reduction.  If you did, you would never reach zero.

 

What most people do if find a mg to reduce and that usually starts at 5 or 10%.

 

Then journal your withdrawal symptoms every day and if your journal starts to show a trend of symptoms getting worse, you can make an adjustment.

 

But try not to think of percentages.  I really cannot make a water taper with a constant 7.5% reduction - it would be horrible to maintain.

 

Now to answer your question.

 

To start at a 7.5% reduction, do you want that to occur over the first 2 weeks or first 10 days?

I’m sorry that my lack of understanding is frustrating and I get it!! I think I spent so much time looking at the folks who are using the methods of cutting 5-10% and holding 2 weeks, cutting again and holding etc by using a liquid compound or cutting pills that this stuck with me. However, I have no desire to cut and file and weigh and wouldn’t know how to begin……and this method seemed like something that would cause less stress. I had been told by previous ADMIN that our brain likes consistency so I was just trying to follow that advice.

I imagine 7.5% for 2 weeks? I seem to be not entirely understanding but I don’t want to frustrate and am battling long Covid so much that I don’t have the brain capacity to figure out fine details. So I’ll trust and follow your guidance. Thank you

In the water method, your percentage only depends on how much water you start with (not if you use 1.5mg or 1mg). 

 

If you start with 187 mL of water and remove 1 mL each day, the percent over 14 days is 7.5%

 

If you start with 280 mL of water and remove 1 mL each day, the percent over 14 days is 5.0%

 

Percentage math doesn't mater if you begin with 1.5mg or 1mg of drug.  However, 7.5% of 1.5mg is a bigger reduction than 7.5% of 1mg.

 

If all that is too much for you, then just do this (it is safe and you will be done in 280 days)

Get a container will easily holds 280 mL of water.

Each day, add your 1 or 1.5 mg of drug.  You can then add a few drops of vodka to help break down the tablet (that step is optional).  Then add 280 mL of water and stir very hard (harder if you skipped the vodka).

Day 1 - remove 1 mL of mixture and drink the rest

Day 2 - remove 2 mL of mixture and drink the rest

Day 3 - remove 3 mL of mixture and drink the rest

and so on for 280 days.