Need support advice!

Hello all! I am experiencing tolorance withdrawal... I was having it even when I was on 0.5MG Now that I am  coming down at the 5% reduction per week. I just started this weeks reduction going from 25% to 30% decrease from the 0.5MG not even halfway there yet. I am getting aweful symptoms. I can hardly stand it. my ears are ringing worse then ever..burning in my face body,anxiety,vertigo,dizzy, and I am not sure if I have a cold, my ear is plugged and my nose and sinus and the nightmares are still bad and getting worse. and thats just to name a few symptoms. is this normal?  and also if I do make it down to at least half way - 50% to .25MG is it wise to stabalize for a while or keep going? I am concerned that when I finally take my last pill even though I weaned, is it still gonna rebound and put me in a serious withdrawal?  also do you think I am weaning slow enough. 0.5MG Klonopin  5% reduction per week total 20 weeks. even though I have only been on this stuff for a little over 5- months..I am getting so sick I feel like I am not even gonna make it. I was sensative to this drug in the 1st place. I was actually taking 3-0.5MG for the 1st 6-weeks. then I cut right down to 0.5MG Because my vision was so bad I could hardly see anything. when I tried to go to half of that pill I got real sick and it tasted like poison was coming out of my mouth, and my body was shaking..It was real bad so I went back up to a whole pill. anyone have this type of experience? any advice would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!  Richie.

I would say that all you mentioned is normal.  Tolerance w/d sucks.  I took klonopin for 9 years and stayed around the same dose.  I refused to increase so I hit tolerance and went into w/d.  I did not know it at that time because I just thought I was sick.  I was sick but not from a virus but a medication I had been given as a prescription.  When you reduce from there is just gets worse but it does get better.  I did not taper I went c/t (don't do that) at my doctors orders, but I know when the medicine left my system it was on!  All those things you described I had and then some.  I am currently 6 months benzo free and I feel great.  Better than I have in years and I am completely chemical free!  Hang in there it will get better. You are not alone and this is way to common.  I am sorry that you are feeling bad.  I hope you start feel the effects of your recovery and healing soon!

 

MJ

Hello all! I am experiencing tolorance withdrawal... I was having it even when I was on 0.5MG Now that I am  coming down at the 5% reduction per week. I just started this weeks reduction going from 25% to 30% decrease from the 0.5MG not even halfway there yet. I am getting aweful symptoms. I can hardly stand it. my ears are ringing worse then ever..burning in my face body,anxiety,vertigo,dizzy, and I am not sure if I have a cold, my ear is plugged and my nose and sinus and the nightmares are still bad and getting worse. and thats just to name a few symptoms. is this normal?  and also if I do make it down to at least half way - 50% to .25MG is it wise to stabalize for a while or keep going? I am concerned that when I finally take my last pill even though I weaned, is it still gonna rebound and put me in a serious withdrawal?  also do you think I am weaning slow enough. 0.5MG Klonopin  5% reduction per week total 20 weeks. even though I have only been on this stuff for a little over 5- months..I am getting so sick I feel like I am not even gonna make it. I was sensative to this drug in the 1st place. I was actually taking 3-0.5MG for the 1st 6-weeks. then I cut right down to 0.5MG Because my vision was so bad I could hardly see anything. when I tried to go to half of that pill I got real sick and it tasted like poison was coming out of my mouth, and my body was shaking..It was real bad so I went back up to a whole pill. anyone have this type of experience? any advice would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!   Richie.

 

Tolerance withdrawal is awful!  I was also in tolerance w/d when I started tapering and it was about 6 weeks before I started feeling better.  You are reducing your dose about 10% every 2 weeks which should be fine.  Are you using titration?  It would help if you would add some relevant information to your signature block so everyone can see what the story is at a glance.  Here is a link to the instructions:

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=9432.msg119713#msg119713

 

There really isn't anything I know to do but keep going forward to get off the stuff.  Have you checked out the Anxiety Board?  Maybe doing some of the things suggested on many of those threads would help you at least emotionally.  Isn't it incredible what such a small little pill can do to our bodies?  Hang in there, Richie. 

Hi Beeper,

Thanks for the support! I am on a pill compounding reduction. not a water titration. the parmacist coumpounds the pills at a 5% decrease per week. I get it a month at a time 4 scripts 14 pills in each bottle.. I was taking half of a 0.5 in the morning and the other half at night. so they broke it down that way when the compounded it. I noticed most of the people in the UK use water titration.. it seems to be more popular there and I heard they even sell kits for it. my choice here was that or a liquid suspention..but they said with the liquid you gotta shake it real good or you might get to much or to little. so I opted for the compounding of the pills instead. my insurance pays for it. but if anyone is interested there is a pharmacy here in the states that does nothing but compounding these type of drugs. you can get it per week per month or the whole thing at once. if my insurance didn't cover mine I would have gone to them. they are real good. they also offer the liquid suspention. like water titration it could be a pain. much easier with pills. at least for me. Beeper, you said it got better for you after 6-weeks.. what was it like for you once you took your last dose.. and how long did it take for full withdrawal to kick in? ..I heard stories from people that even though they came down with a slow taper, it still felt like a cold turkey. Thanks, I will get my signature updated soon.. and check out some of the anxiety forums as well. also is this one of the guys that founded this site?  I think this is how I wound up here.  their stories blew me away.  Richie.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/DepressionNews/Story?id=6354685&page=1

 

torrio,

Sorry to hear you're having such problems, but I know they are very typical, and most all of us have had all these to some degree.

(and still do)...Shaking is very scary (only had that once)  Trembling is very common.  Tinnitus, head buzzing, anxiety,

muscle aching, headache, fatigue are all symptoms, plus many more.

 

I went to an ear specialist with an earache last summer, only to have him tell me there was nothing abnormal. 

I went to the dentist a couple of weeks ago with severe temperature sensitivity in a tooth.

He x-rayed it and found no problems at all. 

Starting to see a trend here?  Weird pains?... common ingredient...Benzos.

 

I'm glad to see you have managed to obtain a good withdrawal method. 

I wish there was something that could make this pain-free, but by now, someone here would know about it.

Stick with it, and hopefully learn all you can to help make this crummy trip less of a problem.

 

Knowledge can help you manage it. 

You look young, and that can be a plus, but youth is generally impatient,

so you have to learn how to deal with that right away.  Patience, patience patience.

Everyone here is hopeful for your recovery, and wishing the best for you.

-David

Hi Beeper,

Thanks for the support! I am on a pill compounding reduction. not a water titration. the parmacist coumpounds the pills at a 5% decrease per week. I get it a month at a time 4 scripts 14 pills in each bottle.. I was taking half of a 0.5 in the morning and the other half at night. so they broke it down that way when the compounded it. I noticed most of the people in the UK use water titration.. it seems to be more popular there and I heard they even sell kits for it. my choice here was that or a liquid suspention..but they said with the liquid you gotta shake it real good or you might get to much or to little. so I opted for the compounding of the pills instead. my insurance pays for it. but if anyone is interested there is a pharmacy here in the states that does nothing but compounding these type of drugs. you can get it per week per month or the whole thing at once. if my insurance didn't cover mine I would have gone to them. they are real good. they also offer the liquid suspention. like water titration it could be a pain. much easier with pills. at least for me.

I'm glad you have that resource, Richie.  If it hadn't have been so expensive, I probably would have gone that route, too.  Titration did seem a little overwhelming to me at first but is pretty straightforward now.  I guess my "benzo fog" really has lifted. 

 

Beeper, you said it got better for you after 6-weeks.. what was it like for you once you took your last dose.. and how long did it take for full withdrawal to kick in? ..I heard stories from people that even though they came down with a slow taper, it still felt like a cold turkey. Thanks, I will get my signature updated soon.. and check out some of the anxiety forums as well. also is this one of the guys that founded this site?   I think this is how I wound up here.  their stories blew me away.   Richie.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/DepressionNews/Story?id=6354685&page=1

 

 

After the first few months of tapering, I didn't really experience a particular time when w/d symptoms "kicked in".  There were things that came and went and some - like a certain level of anxiety/shakiness - that went on almost the whole time. I didn't feel any different after my last dose except for the joy I felt at not having to think about that stinkin' pill anymore. I think the main benefits of a slow taper are virtually no chance of seizures and less chance of prolonged withdrawal that lasts months or even years after that last dose.  There have been some members who have done a rapid taper - or even c/t'd - and recovered nicely in a matter of weeks.  It's the luck of the draw, I guess.

 

The Colin Moran in this article is the man who started and owns this website and forum.   

Hi Torrio,

 

I'm not sure why you are considering switching to Valium. Clonazepam has a reasonably long half-life, and since you are taking a compounded dose, this allows you to make small cuts (smaller equivalent cuts than you would manage by pill-splitting Valium).

 

I think it is unlikely that switching would bring an end to tolerance withdrawal effects, but I guess it is possible since the two drugs do have slightly different profiles. Your doctor could prescribe liquid Valium, but if you are in the States, your doctor probably will be reluctant to prescribe any form of Valium. And, your insurance might not pay up either.

 

The truth is that most of us experience some problems during withdrawal. If you are considering switching to Valium because you expect that you should feel better during withdrawal, this might be unrealistic.

 

Most people do not use titration in the UK. This purely something that is suggested on the Internet at various places for those that cannot split their pills small enough to avoid unbearable withdrawal effects. There is guidance (a la Ashton) for GPs in the UK that suggests switching to Valium as a good option, but not titration!

 

You should discuss switching with your doctor. If you are unable to obtain a Valium prescription, then this discussion is mute anyway.

 

To answer your question, to switch, you obtain two prescriptions for the two drugs. You would first need to decide upon an equivalent dose. This is not as straightforward as it might first appear, as there are differing view on equivalencies from differing medical authorities. In the UK, they are likely to prescribe 20mg Valium for every 1mg Clonazepam, but in the US, it is likely to be 10mg Valium to every 1mg Clonazepam. The reality is, though, that an equivalent dose will vary from individual-to-individual. Few doctors seem willing to acknowledge this and are rigid in their interpretation of equivalency tables.

 

Assuming you obtain Valium at an equivalent dose of 10mg to 1mg Clonazepam (your pharmacist will do this for you), you would substitute just a small part of your dose at a time. If you are using a dropper, and you usually take 5 drops of Clonazepam, say, you would instead take just 4 drops. At the same time, instead of taking 5 drops of Valium (the equivalent to 5 drops of Clonazepam), you would take just 1 drop. You would do this for a few days (at least - a week or more might be better), and then take just 3 drops of Clonazepam, and 2 drops of Valium for another few days or more. You would keep dropping the Clonazepam by 1 drop, and increasing the Valium by 1 drop until you have completed the switch. If the equivalent dose is not the same number of drops, we can help you work out the numbers. However, your pharmacist should be able to work a direct equivalent (of drops), assuming your doctor's prescription allows for this. If you instead use a 5ml medicine spoon, you could move to using a dropper, perhaps. I am not getting far too specifics now. You first need to talk with your doctor.

 

Frankly, I'm not convinced that you would benefit from switching, as switching can carry its own set of potential problems. Ashton noticed an increased number of people experienced problems when switching from Clonazepam to Valium in her research. You should bare this in mind.

Colin,

Thank you so much for your responce.. that helped give me a better understanding on making a switch. I guess I am just afraid because I am very sensative to these drugs. and I am having problems already (tolorance withdrawal)  every week when I make that 5% cut. it gets worse. I see you also were on Clonazapam? a lot longer then me, and at a higher dosage as well. can you give me some advice on what to expect based on your experience..I am wondering if the 5% cut per week is to much..and if at some point if the withdrawal gets to rough if I should stabalize for a while.. or reduce the percentage of the cut less then 5% or do you think that would just prolong the inevitable? is my brain adapting enough every week..enough to lesson the blow before I actually take my last pill,and go into full blown withdrawal? I am trying to get some ideas on what to do if I start having serious problems. I know we are all differen't but I would like to know what you went through..  like did you use pills,titration ect.. did you have to alter your dosage at some point? how bad and long was your withdrawal. give me the full scoop..I really think it would help me out a lot. I am still in a severe withdrawal from stoping paxil after 12 years. it was the worst hell anyone can ever imagine I had at least 200 symptoms and at least 75 were and are severe. the put me on the clonazapam to try and minimize the suffering.. but it made it worse. I never knew that benzos had the same severe withdrawal as the paxil. and to be honest with you most people would be dead by now.. its been 6 long months of suffering. and I don't know how much longer my body will hold out. and now I have to suffer another withdrawal on top of the other that I am still going through. my life and my family has been turned inside out upside down. the only reason I was prescribed paxil was because I mentioned to my doctor I was having a hard time staying a sleep at night. I was perfectly healthy. thank you so much for all your help and advice. it is very much appreciated.    Richie.

Hi,

 

The point of a taper is so that you will not experience "full blown withdrawal". As you taper gradually, your GABA system is recovering towards normalcy in tandam with your withdrawal. When you make your final cut (after following a sensible taper plan), it is just another cut - there is no reason to expect things to get worst at this stage. Indeed, there is every reason (because you tapered off gradually) for you to expect things to improve, and to improve quite quickly.

 

Reducing your dose by 5% per week from a dose 0.5mg Clonazepam means that you are already following a slow taper plan. This means it will take 20 weeks to quit 0.5mg. To put this into perspective, I tapered off 4.5mg over about 26 weeks! OK, I probably tapered too quickly, but you get the idea. I am not saying that cannot slow your taper rate, but I would be surprised if it improved matters. And, of course, since you have been experiencing tolerance withdrawal effects, there is probably even less reason to extend your period of withdrawal.

Richie you and I have a lot in common.  I have a lot of experience with ssri's and the hell going on them and coming off of them can cause .  another member on here to confide in would be ouriana.  she has been on several ssri and has had experience with these pills.  I did pretty much a cold Turkey off 5 yr klonopin over a few months I went from 1 mg .75 for a month then to .5 for a  month and then in one week went to .25 and jumped off and unfortunately was to stubborn to reinstate and went through hell.  this was Sept 08.  was on Cipro (antibiotics) which reach havoc on the CNS and gaba for 6 months and then taper off of zoloft which i had been on for 6 years.  which absolutely messed my cns system up and have never truly healed 100 percent.  took a lot of supplements for working out like no2 creatine and tother amino acids. and now withdrawing again from Valium down to 4.5 and going sloooow. 

 

Point is I know your hell.  this has been a VERY LONG road for me that started din the summer of 08 we are about to start the summer of 2010.  that's a long time.

 

hang in there,

click 

I would say that all you mentioned is normal.  Tolerance w/d sucks.  I took klonopin for 9 years and stayed around the same dose.  I refused to increase so I hit tolerance and went into w/d.  I did not know it at that time because I just thought I was sick.  I was sick but not from a virus but a medication I had been given as a prescription.  When you reduce from there is just gets worse but it does get better.  I did not taper I went c/t (don't do that) at my doctors orders, but I know when the medicine left my system it was on!  All those things you described I had and then some.  I am currently 6 months benzo free and I feel great.  Better than I have in years and I am completely chemical free!  Hang in there it will get better. You are not alone and this is way to common.  I am sorry that you are feeling bad.  I hope you start feel the effects of your recovery and healing soon!

 

MJ

 

Hi Melissa!

 

Did you do a crossover from Klonopin to Valium?  do you think I should continue with my klonopin taper instead of switching over to valium? they say klonopin is the hardest to withdrawal from. colin had great advice on this subject..but I am also curious to know what other people went through as well.   Thanks for your support.  Richie.

also is this one of the guys that founded this site?   I think this is how I wound up here.  their stories blew me away.   Richie.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/DepressionNews/Story?id=6354685&page=1

 

 

Yes, Beeps is right! That is our absolutely wonderful, extremely intelligent, very understanding...and I might add, very handsome Colin.  Sorry to embarrass you Colin, but it is the truth! 

 

I truly believe with all my heart that he, as well as many, many others on here, have, and ARE - saving lives. Literally. 

Torrio , see your asking about klonopin switch over.  While Valium does indeed have a much longer half life, the klonopin your on, is fairly long itself.

I withdrew from K directly , using the titration plan of 10% per week, and it worked fine for me.  Once I got near the .5 mark , I was starting to get some regular feelings back.  Each person's trip is an individual effort,  so no 2 are the same, but I know that it can be done , without crossing to valium.  If you take the reduction slowly, there is no reason it can;t work for you. 

If you like , we would be glad to work up a titration plan for you that can allow you to taper slowly off the junk.

Just let us know .  There are many here to help you get thru this.

One note.  Its worth all the suffering you go thru to get there.  I am off the benzo's since Sept 09 and have completely returned to normal. 

You just don't know just how great normal is till you loose it, then get it back.....

st

Torrio,

 

I have read many posts about members switching over to Valium and causing depression.  Of course, it is your choice.  Many members direct taper off Klono.

 

Patty

I wasn't sure where to post to you and didn't want to stay in someone else's thread, so here I am. 

 

Have you crossed over to Valium yet?  Why are you crossing over?   

 

Where is your main thread that tells your story?  I'd like to get caught up without a million questions.  When you get a chance, could you add a signature to your profile so your buddies can get a summary of your journey.  This makes it much easier to help each other.   

 

If you aren't sure of how to do this, here is a link with instructions.  http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=9432.0